How desperate can airlines get ?

[MEVERTSGB]

After a recent 'free flight' offer by Ryanair, easyJet have decided to copy the idea ? Here it is: -

18:15, easyJet offers free flights between Ireland and Scotland

easyJet today announced that it is offering thousands of free seats on selected flights between Belfast - Glasgow and Belfast - Edinburgh. Customers only need to pay the Government Tax of £5 per leg. This offer is available up until the end of March 2002


Isn't there a law against 'dumping' prohibiting companies from selling products below cost ??? If flying for free isn't just that, then I don't know what is. Seems these guys (MO'L and Haji-Dopupoupudoupoulous) are going to put each other out of business. As far as I am concerned, the sooner the better.

It's all a big con. You'll travel outbound for as little as £0.00 and pay as much as £150.00 for your inbound flight. What a con.

What's next ? Crew will be paid in cash and given time off to sign on every fortnight? Give me a break.


:D :D :D :D

[Gypsy]

COWPAT - well done for picking the best option; thats competition.

Charterguy - when I saw the title of this thread and your name against it how did I know it would be another dig at eJ!!!!

Please tell us why it is you have such a thing about the orange mob and Stelios.

[Orangewing]

Charterguy is obviously still bitter that he will never have what it takes to be an EZY Pilot !!!! It's not a chip on the shoulder, it's a f****** log! he!he! :p :p

[cloud10]

Gypsy & orangewing.

Some of us don't bellieve in the low-cost product and enjoy providing or receiving a service during flights.
low cost airlines are bringing down the airlne market.
In the old days flying was some kind of a satus,being an irline pax was a treat not everyone could afford.
Its good the flights are now accessible to a larger number of people, but shouldn't there be a stop?
There must be a reason why salaries in the industry have gone down so much !!!
:eek:

[Mad Max]

Gentlemen, a reality check.

If you want to make a profit doing shorthaul from now on in Europe, you have got to follow the low cost business model. You can still do shorthaul/full service, but the days of profit making in that area are over - period.

The only way that "Big Airlines" are going to be able to offer "Full Service" shorthaul flights is by subsidising the losses from profits that they make with their longhaul fleets - and that will rely on their yield.

Those who criticise the Low Fares operators are either deluding themselves that maybe we'll all go bust and then the "proper" airlines can cheerfully return to the days of ripping off the general public, or they have their own agenda - like maybe they didn't get offered a job?

I will admit there is a big difference between the established carriers and the new wave - our companies are making a profit because they're run by hard nosed bean counters. Big Airlines? They've got a great future behind them!

Cheers, Max :) :) :)

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

cloud10 - are you trying to say that pilot salaries would be higher if easy/Go/Ryan/Buzz were not profitably employing well over 1,000 Boeing pilots in the UK/Eire?

When I were a lad economic theory would have predicted lower salaries with these additional workers available. :confused:

WWW

[yaffel1]

Mad Max,

There are full service carriers that make money on short haul. GB Airways springs to mind and even BMI make some money. It's all about cost base. If you have high overheads then you're stuffed. Also, the likes of BA don't give a true picture because their revenue picture is so artificially skewed towards long haul. Even so, they do make money on some short haul routes.

The main difference is that the likes of EZY and FR have a control of their costs, and on the revenue side are sufficiently focused to maximise the return on sales. The likes of BA are not.

[jumpseater]

To reply to Charterguy's original question, we'll know when easy/ryan/go are desperate, coz charterguy's name will appear on one of their flying rosters!

[phd]

Charterguy

It might be desperation - or it might just be a very shrewd, and apparently successful, marketing tactic. 'Loss leaders' are used by all sorts of companys selling products and services to attract customers, who will then hopefully buy more money with same company in the future. If these people also tell all thair friends about the amazing deal thay got with company X, then what do you suppose all their friends do? It is not rocket science - it is what advertising and marketing are have to join them. BA, Lufthansa etc. are going to have to wise up and start winning back customers - not by complaining about unfair competition from the budgets - but by beating them at their own game. The customer wants unbeatable value for money, they want to feel safe and secure in the air, and they want hospitality and service commensurate with the fare they have paid. High fare - 5 star service with all the frills, low fare - you get a seat. It is not good enough just to deliver these things either - the customer has to believe that the airline is delivering these things. Ryanair and Easyjet are winning the hearts and minds of their customers - even if we do not like their methods. Let's all wake up and start winning not whingeing.

-------------------------------------------
That's torn it.

[angrycat]

Charterguy
The market tends to point us in the right direction. easyJet have recovered 200 pence on share price and BA 60 pence. Who is considered more of a risk at the moment? :cool:

[RegionalFlyer]

Besides who in their right mind would pay (double or more) the fare for a sector only lasting 50 mins or so. Comfort and service has a price but surely that's only applicable to the longer sectors. Besides who would appreciate a full service with hot meal/tea/etc if they had only 30 mins in which to wolf it down (Ok, flight deck excluded! :D ) whilst still getting inflight shopping.

[Rananim]

I've said this before on a similar thread..low cost shouldn't mean bad service,obnoxious staff and offhand treatment,all of which are to be found in spades in the airlines mentioned.The only exception to the rule is Southwest,a gem of an airline,who treats its pilots and flight attendants with dignity and respect.(My jaw drops with disbelief when I read about the goings-on in Ryanair?Have their pilots been brainwashed into submission?)
The Southwest team are friendly and helpful and there's none of that "you paid 50 bucks for your ticket,what do you expect?"Well,the public DO EXPECT a modicum of courtesy and service even if the fare was cheap.Besides,to do otherwise only reflects badly on the employees.
It would be a sad day indeed when flying loses the mystique that cloud 10 referred to.
If you're going to run a cheap airline,thats fine,but make it cheerful and show some respect to the passengers and to the crews who make it work.
And hire some decent groundstaff and flight attendants that havent just left college and dont know anything about anything.

[maxalt]

Besides who in their right mind would pay (double or more) the fare for a sector only lasting 50 mins or so....who would appreciate a full service with hot meal/tea/etc if they had only 30 mins in which to wolf it down.

Regional Flyer are you SLF or aircrew? In other words, have you ever travelled in a biz class seat and paid for it yourself?

I remember as a young F/O having some senior skippers (who should have known better) explaining to me that biz class pax forked out all that cash just for the 'exclusivity' of the exec cabin. Mere snob value in other words.

WRONG.

Do you seriously believe that the only difference between a low cost carrier ticket and biz class in a 'full service airline' is the fancy seat, a meal and a glass of champagne?

The vast majority who fork out for a biz class seat do so for reasons of flexibility in ticketing and booking. Not to mention connections through codeshare arrangements in major hub airports. Not to also mention the guarentee that you'll be taken care of if things go tits up.

The glass of champagne and wolfed down meal come well down the list of priorities.

[SOPS]

Can I point out that good deals are available on other airlines, as long as you have a good travel agent, and book in advance. Ok we all (Dad, Mum and the three kids), want to (are going to) spend Xmas in London. We are flying from Amsterdam to London and return to Amsterdam with BMI, at the rate of 146 guilders per child/return/confirmed and 218 guilders per adult/return/confirmed. I cant do much better than that on a staff ticket, with no assurance of travel. So what i am saying is shop around, deals ARE out there.

[Bigears]

CHARTERGUY Isn't there a law against 'dumping' prohibiting companies from selling products below cost ??? If flying for free isn't just that, then I don't know what is.
The aircraft will fly anyway- the only cost involved is for a boarding pass & fuel burned for my weight.

Seems these guys (MO'L and Haji-Dopupoupudoupoulous) are going to put each other out of business.
No, I don't think so- see above


It's all a big con. You'll travel outbound for as little as £0.00 and pay as much as £150.00 for your inbound flight. What a con.
Actually, you're trying to con us- For the only day I was interested in (a Saturday), I booked a return flight for 'free'. Pity you didn't do any research first.

MOL knows that by reducing prices, people who will otherwise have not flown will fly. That is correct. I have used the low cost airlines when otherwise I wouldn't have travelled at all (Citybreaks).I presume Stelios (you'll note that unlike you, I didn't try and make a joke out of his name- if thats what you were trying)thinks the same as MOL.

put each other out of business. As far as I am concerned, the sooner the better. If MOLs business model is correct - and he's doing well enough to prove that it is - then I'm not alone in travelling with a low-cost airline rather than not at all- i.e. Low fares generate demand. Pity you'd like to see pilots, cabin crew and ground staff laid off because you disagree with the business model. :mad:

Give me a break. Arm or leg? :rolleyes:

I have no connection with any low cost airline, and don't see why they can't co-exist with 'established' airlines. Although I haven't mentioned GO, I have travelled with them and found them to be excellent. :)

Edited to add that I was only kidding about the 'arm or leg' quip!!
:eek:

[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: Bigears ]

[Gypsy]

Cloud10 - so you prefer offering full service then. Great for longhaul but if you're in the short haul business make sure you don't end up in the dole queue - the writings on the wall.

Frankly sitting up the front a 737 is pretty much the same whether the folks down the back are having pepper steak or a cheese sandwich. The only things that really matter to us pilots is safety, pay, rosters, leave and job security.

Is it importtant to you to be able sit in your club and tell your associates that you fly for a full service carrier?

[hobie]

quote from above .....

"The vast majority who fork out for a biz class seat do so for reasons of flexibility in ticketing and booking. Not to mention connections through codeshare arrangements in major hub airports. Not to also mention the guarentee that you'll be taken care of if things go tits up"

I remember flying from the states to Dxxxx...
in the front(almost the front) and talking to a fedex guy who was flying in with a few buddies to collect a 747 after maintenance ...... our breakfast trays had a single rose which we were expected to take away and when the fedex guy said he didn't have anyone to take it for, I sugested that the receptionist at the maintenance facility would get a great kick out of receiving it and thats where it ended up ..... while all this talking was going on my tray went off to the galley with "My Rose" ..... I mentioned to one of the gals that I would like it back and got the reply "well if you think I'm going to go looking for it" .......
I guess I've flown the atlantic a hundred times, business class, with the airline concerned but since that gal made me look about 2 inches tall in front of the fedex guy, I've never flown them since ...... (about ten years now) ...... a pretty expensive rose I would say