Question re. hold entry

[Wycombe]

Wondered if anyone could give me the benefit of their experience or any clever tips on the following:

I am shortly to take my UK IMC rating flight test. One thing I find it hard to get my head around in the air is which hold entry I
should perform based upon the hold orientation and my entry heading - parallel,
offset or direct?

My instructors advice was to draw a picture of it on my plog before getting airborne, but I can't see this will help much when I end up having to divert to an unfamiliar airfield, then get sent into the VOR or NDB hold and have to cope with trying to work this out whilst aviating, navigating & communicating.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[askop]

I`ve used this a lot. Its really drawing, but I`ll try to explain it to you.

First for right turn holdings: Divide your DI or HSI up in the following (clockwise):0-70 deg Teardrop, 70-250 deg Direct and 250-360 Parallell. Place your OUTBOUND holding course in either of the sectors and you`ve got your entry. For left turn holdings its the opposite. 0-110 Parallell, 110-290 Direct and 290-360 Teardrop.

Please correct me if I`m wrong, and please dont call Teardrop for Offset entry (even if JAA discovered flight).

Good luck

[Buffy Summers]

One thing I was told by my IR instructor which simplified things (although you should still really work it all out, but at least you'll have a good idea in your head whilst you do so) is this:
Imagine flying to the hold.
If your flight will take you to the beacon and out of the hold area, it'll probably be a parallel entry.
If your flight will take you into the hold area then it'll probably be a teardrop.
Direct entries are fairly easy to spot.
Try drawing a couple of examples and you'll see what I mean.
It helps when you've only a minute or two to work it out.

[RadialCaptain]

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askop Wrote
PPRuNe Flight Deck Qualified
Posts: 43
Registered: Apr 2000
posted 10 January 2001 18:56
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I`ve used this a lot. Its really drawing, but I`ll try to explain it to you.
First for right turn holdings: Divide your DI or HSI up in the following (clockwise):0-70 deg Teardrop, 70-250 deg Direct and 250-360 Parallell. Place your OUTBOUND holding course in either of the sectors and you`ve got your entry. For left turn holdings its the opposite. 0-110 Parallell, 110-290 Direct and 290-360 Teardrop.

Please correct me if I`m wrong, and please dont call Teardrop for Offset entry (even if JAA discovered flight).

Good luck
============================================

I call this the tumb rule.
Draw yourself first on paper an Heading Indicator (HI)with your current track pointing up.
Now for a left holding pattern take your left tumb en place it on the HI on the left side just above the 90 degrees position. Measure 20 deg. up. Now draw a line from that point through the center of the HI to the other side. It will end at the other 90 deg. side + 20 deg.
So for example if North is up the line will run from the 290 hdg to the 110 hdg.
Now see what the outbound track is. Is your outbound track between, in our example, 290-000 than the entry is Offset (Teardrop). If the outbound track is between 000-110 the entry is Parallel. The rest 110-290 (over right) is Direct.
For a Right hand holding pattern take your Right tumb. Rest is the same.
Make sure you take your outbound track for finding out what kind of entry you need.
Further use your entry trck to find out what for an entry you are getting. Because the heading can differ 10 deg. or more from your track.
The best thing you can do is set your entry track on the Nav indicator. and than use this tumbrule.
I hope this is readable for you.
Good luck on your v-ride.
RadialCaptain

[eole]

Askop's method is the one I use regurlarly with a minor difference, I set the inbound track on the HSI but read the tail of the arrow to see which sector it indicates, this has the added advantage of visualising the holding pattern and its direction. I can then plot the wind direction on the HSI and see how it will affect me throughout the pattern, helping decide on the drift and timing adjustements. With a bit of practice at visualising, the HSI quickly becomes an all moving map!
Good luck with your IMC rating, I did mine in 1988 in High Wycombe with BA flying club.

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Don't believe anything you hear and only believe half of what you see.

[NIMBUS]

Classic case of over engineering a problem.

First, in reality it makes almost no difference whatever what kind of entry as long as you remain within the 'protected' airspace. MIGHT be a problem flying a jet, but not for the average single engine or light twin.

Why divide into such odd sectors? Far easier to divide DG, HSI, etc,with one horizontal line. Top 270-090, bottom 090-270.
Flying to the fix, see where the holding radial is on your DG. Anything in the bottom sector is always direct entry.
If right hand turns, hold up right hand with thumb extended.Thumb=T, T=Teardrop, so right-side top quadrant is Teardrop entry, left is Parallel.
If left hand turns, hold up left hand with thumb extended. Thumb=T, T=Teardrop, so left side top quadrant is Teardrop, right is parallel.

Hope I explained it all right, but it works for me.

PS. Why IS it made so difficult? Is there actually a JAA/CAA rule that you MUST use those entries, or is it only a recommendation
a la FAA?

PPS. askop, Sorry for calling it 'Teardrop', but thats what the FAA call it!

[RadialCaptain]

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NIMBUS Wrote
PPRuNe Flight Deck Qualified
Posts: 141
Registered: May 2000
posted 11 January 2001 06:56
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Classic case of over engineering a problem.
First, in reality it makes almost no difference whatever what kind of entry as long as you remain within the 'protected' airspace. MIGHT be a problem flying a jet, but not for the average single engine or light twin.

Why divide into such odd sectors? Far easier to divide DG, HSI, etc,with one horizontal line. Top 270-090, bottom 090-270.
Flying to the fix, see where the holding radial is on your DG. Anything in the bottom sector is always direct entry.
If right hand turns, hold up right hand with thumb extended.Thumb=T, T=Teardrop, so right-side top quadrant is Teardrop entry, left is Parallel.
If left hand turns, hold up left hand with thumb extended. Thumb=T, T=Teardrop, so left side top quadrant is Teardrop, right is parallel.

Hope I explained it all right, but it works for me.

PS. Why IS it made so difficult? Is there actually a JAA/CAA rule that you MUST use those entries, or is it only a recommendation
a la FAA?

PPS. askop, Sorry for calling it 'Teardrop', but thats what the FAA call it!
============================================= I have one problem with this and one statement:
The problem: the protected area is figured out by ATC. They know what kind of airplane you have an with that knowledge they establish your protected area. As a result the protected area for alarge jet is many times larger than the protected area foe a light single engine.
For the statement: The entry's are indeed recomendation.See the A.I.M. But like everybody knows the A.I.M. is "almost" law.
RadialCaptain

[Hew Jampton]

At least one approach plate publisher marks the entry sector dividing line on the hold pattern. Nothing to stop you adding your own (plus any other embellishments) provided they are your own personal set.

[Wycombe]

Thank you all for the very useful replies.
Some really helpful stuff so far.

Eole - I am with the other major Club at Wycombe!

NIMBUS - appreciate your sentiments re. overcomplication (and you are probably right), but I think the examiner will expect to see me do it correctly in the test!

Cheers all,
Wycombe

[askop]

Hi Nimbus!

I've have to agree a litle with you. According to PANS OPS which is RECOMANDATIONS, they recomend you to execute these entries. I once read, I believe it was in Flight that the easiest way was just to use Direct and Teardrop entries, depending on were you came from.

However, with JAR-OPS regulations PANS OPS is the law and you have do obey it. At least thats what they told me on the course.

And... I wouldn't start to argue with the CAA-(or FAA) examineer.

In 100 years, everything is forgotten...

[Steamhead]

All the correpondents have made some excellent suggestions to help with hold entry,However it should be noted that holds and hold entries are not part of the IMC syllabus although great fun and good instrument training.
Holds are not part of the test proceedure,
however as an examiner if the student was put in the hold because of ATC requirements
then I would expect he remained in the same county at the correct altitude and I don't care what entry proceedure he uses
regards
Steamhead

[Wycombe]

Tcas Climb:

Excellent stuff. I spent half an hour visualising this and drawing a few examples this evening, and each time I came up with the correct entry method. Feel confident I could do it using the method you described in the air.

Steamhead:

Yes, I appreciate there is a strong likelihood I won't have to do this in my test, but one of the airfields used for the test by my Club (Cranfield) is procedural, so I reckon this makes it more of a possibility.

Just wanted to be prepared if it does happen.

Thanks all once again for your help.

[RadialCaptain]

===========================================
Steamhead wrote
PPRuNe Flight Deck Qualified
Posts: 17
Registered: Jan 2000
posted 13 January 2001 21:36
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All the correpondents have made some excellent suggestions to help with hold entry,However it should be noted that holds and hold entries are not part of the IMC syllabus although great fun and good instrument training.
Holds are not part of the test proceedure,
however as an examiner if the student was put in the hold because of ATC requirements
then I would expect he remained in the same county at the correct altitude and I don't care what entry proceedure he uses
regards
Steamhead
===========================================
Steamhead
for your information read up on JAR-FCL
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.app.2.1.210.htm
section 4.d. and section 5.d.
where it states that the "Holding procedure" is required for the skill and proficiency" test.
And I 'am almost sure that this is not only for yhe JAA but also required by you Aviation Authority.
Radial Captain.

[Propellerhead]

If your HSI has a glideslope indicator on the left and right of the compass rose then it is even easier (try drawing it out on a quick sketch of an HSI:

Imagine slanting line from one dot low (one dot UP on the display) - starting on the right hand side if right hand hold, left if LH hold. This slanting line goes down to the one dot high (1 dot down on the other side). Then, vertical line down to the 6 o'clock.

This divides the HSI into the three sectors, actually called sectors 1,2, and 3 officially:

Sector 1 : Parallel
sector 2 : Offset / teardrop
Sector 3 : Direct

Look at the HSI HEAD - if in the top half of the HSI (the biggest sector) = sector 3 (direct)

The smallest segment is sector 2(offset) - on the bottom left if RH hold and bottom right if left hand hold. The remaining medium segment is sector 1 (parallel).

Best bit about this is that if your heading changes you can immediately see if your sector entry is changing. Also, Aerad plates show the 70 degree line on the hold - useful.

[Steamhead]

The U.K. IMC Rating is NOT part of the JAR-FCL (About the only thing that isn't)
The relavent information is in CAP 53 Part 2
Chapter 6 and Appendix G for the syllabus.
The holding pattern is not part of this syllabus
regards

[NIMBUS]

askop,
You're right! Arguing with the examiner is never a good idea!
tcas climb,
Good points. However, I think it depends on where you do the test. IR flying (and in particular tests!) are all procedural. I did mine with the FAA, and the examiner had no problems with MINOR 'rule-of-thumb'altered procedures, as long as they were based on safe operating practices.
I get the impression that the FAA are more practical, while non-FAA demand strict adherence to every minor rule . (Not a criticism, just a comment http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif )

Wycombe,
Good luck with the test. Let us know how it went!

[This message has been edited by NIMBUS (edited 16 January 2001).]

[Wycombe]

Hi All,

All I can add to this (as the hapless student!) is that the CAA Examiner (who is also our Club CFI) expects me to be able to
do the entry and the hold, if required.

Obviously, I don't know for certain whether I will get one in the Test.

Cheers!

[olivasnooze]

The use of the correct sector entry to hold is basic airmanship. It is not that difficult. Every renewal I've ever done has had a sector entry to hold.

[captmu2]

Well lots of replies....
I have to submit something otherwise I will feel left out. There are many great suggestions there for you entry problem, one thing to remember is that you are flying so go through them all and find something that works for you. Like many things hold seem to just click when you get them...I use the pen trick...Right turns/ Right side high...left turns/ Left side high....offset is always on the high side..etc...
I find the comment interesting that holds are not required for the exam, they are in Canada, in fact if you booboo your hold in Canada it is an instant fail! Also airline rides depend on you knowing your entry, but like I said they will just click for you. But most important for whichever style you wish to use to figure them out is ALWAYS FIGURE YOUR OUTBOUND, not working the outbound is what gets most people....I dont know if you do NDB holds in the UK but if they do remember that when you get the hold (in the air, for an NDB) they give you the IB, make sure you 180 it for the outbound. Well that is all....too much information.

[Hew Jampton]

All this waving around of pens and using various instruments in ways for which they were not designed! The lines that divide the entry sectors are printed on the Aerad chart. Mentally, or by pre-flight writing the various headings on the chart, work out the headings that define each sector. As you come up to the hold, compare your actual heading with the sector defining headings, work out which entry is required, tell the examiner and then do it.

Before that, however, while in the briefing room, tactfully ask this examiner where in the IMC Rating syllabus are holding and hold entries. If he doesn't get the message from that, have a word with someone else in authority at your school and if that doesn't work, have an (anonymous) chat with a Flight Standards Officer in CAA Flight Crew Licensing. The IMC Rating is demanding enough without some martinet adding a test requirement that gives some difficulty to I/R holders.

Some contributors to this thread might be unaware that the subject relates to the UK PPL national IMC Rating, not the full Instrument Rating. Different syllabus, different privileges.



[This message has been edited by Hew Jampton (edited 17 January 2001).]

[Tinstaafl]

If you're using approach plates that depict the holding pattern & its sectors eg Australian Jepps or DAPs, hold the page against the DI/HSI/RMI with the top of the page aligned with north on the instrument.

An (imaginary) vertical line down from the holding fix is the reciprocal of the heading you are currently using to get to, and cross, the fix during the hold entry. This line will be in the appropriate sector for the hold entry.


[This message has been edited by Tinstaafl (edited 21 January 2001).]

[Hew Jampton]

Wycombe, have you done your IMC Rating test yet? What happened?

[Wycombe]

Hew,

My test was booked for last Thursday, but the morning sortie (focussed on ILS's) didn't go well enough for me to be considered ready (although on previous trips another Instructor considered I was).

In the end, I know I wasn't up to the mark (the needles don't lie), and was quite cross with myself about it.

Will be doing a bit more practice, both in the air and on the MSFS, over the next few weeks, to try to get it sorted!

Thanks for asking!

Cheers
Wycombe

[OzExpat]

Tcas climb ... I'd be requesting a vector coz I figure that, if he's busy then I'm also gunna be busy trying to figure my entry, my latest divert time, my aircraft configuration ... oh, yeh, and what the heck I'll tell my pax!

On a more general side to this discussion, let's not get too side-tracked about what constitutes law or otherwise. It's certainly true that the Pans Ops document itself is merely a collection of recommendations concerning instrument procedure design. This is my area of expertise and ahs been for the last 10 years.

Pans Ops actually becomes law when the country you're in implements it. You will then find all sorts of words in your AIP (or equivalent document) about it.

But lets get down to cases. The fact is that the protection area for a holding pattern is based on the expectation that the pilot will use the appropriate sector entry procedure. If you start inventing your own entry method, be aware that your aircraft may leave the protected area.

I know this is a bit far-fetched in a slow GA type aircraft of the type used in training, but remember that some holding patterns can be speed restricted to avoid an overlap into an adjacent control zone, restricted area or whatever. Be particularly aware when the approach itself is restricted to aircraft in Categories A and B... an invented entry method could see you way outside the primary protection area for the pattern.

Yes, there is more protection area beyond that and, unless wind velocity is really strong, yo aren't likely to get into too much trouble. But, in most countries where Pans Ops is implemented, secondary protection area is allowed to overlap into other airspace. So, if you use your own entry method -- and especially if you then stuff it up -- there's a real chance that your aircraft will exit the primary protection area.

Of course, in some parts of the world, there can be far more serious consequences -- like bloodey big mountains to run into! That's the sort of thing that could ruin your whole day!

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Once a king, always a king.
But once a nite's barely adequate!