Virgin Atlantic to operate to Australia.

[Torres]

http://www.etravelblackboard.com/index.asp?id=18773&nav

You have to admire this guy's sense of humour! :ok: :ok:

24 July 2003

OPEN LETTER TO GEOFF DIXON FROM RICHARD BRANSON

Dear Geoff,

I was amused to read Qantas’s completely dismissive comments about Virgin Atlantic’s chances of getting permission to fly to Australia. It would be prudent for you to remind yourself of your and James Strong’s equally dismissive comments about Virgin Blue’s chances of entering the Australian market only three years ago.

Here goes! This is the gist of what you said:

“Virgin Blue is a lot of media hype.”
“This market is not big enough to sustain Virgin Blue.”
“Virgin Blue doesn’t have deep enough pockets to cope.”
“Qantas will employ any option to see off this interloper.”
“They’ll be unlikely to survive a year.”
“Claims by Richard Branson that domestic fares are high are a misnomer!”(my exclamation mark)

Here is what James Strong, your former C.E.O, said about Virgin Blue and myself:

“If you listen to most of the pretenders there is a distinct air that they are making it up as they go along. In terms of real plans and real commitment you could fire a shot gun up the main street and not hit anybody.”

Yet three years later you are telling your staff that this same airline, “that was making it up as it went along” and that now has 30% of the market could, “Drive Qantas out of business!” We also find it flattering, if a little silly, that three years on you now have spies hiding behind pot plants in the Virgin terminal trying to work out why we are so successful.

Even if some of your comments don’t suggest it, your actions indicate you are taking us seriously. But let’s not take ourselves too seriously. I would like to propose a friendly challenge!

If Virgin Atlantic fails to fly to Australia (within 18 months, say) I’d be prepared to suffer the indignity of donning one of your stewardesses brand new designer outfits and will work your flight from London to Australia serving your customers throughout.

However, if Virgin Atlantic does fly to Australia you would do so instead. On our inaugural flight from London to Australia you would wear one of our beautiful red Virgin Stewardesses uniforms and serve our inaugural guests all the way to Australia. Oh and in case you were wondering, we’re not hung up on flying through Hong Kong. You might end up doing your days work experience through Singapore, Thailand or Malaysia instead.

This is the challenge. If you believe in what Qantas said to the press there can’t be any risk for you. We expect your response within one week. Our inaugural flights are great fun and I look forward to welcoming you on board personally. Oh and by the way my preferred drink is ………..!


Kind regards,

p.s. I enclose a picture to give you an idea of what you might look like.

http://www.etravelblackboard.com/images/etc/18773c.jpg

[Wirraway]

Dow Jones

Thursday July 24, 9:36 AM AEST
Branson Says Virgin Atlantic In Australia Within 18 Mos

SYDNEY (Dow Jones)--Virgin Atlantic founder Richard Branson said Thursday that the U.K.-based airline will be operating services to Australia within the next 18 months.

The entrepreneur and occasional humorist said if his plan fails to get off the ground he will work for rival Qantas Airways Ltd. on its London to Australia service.

"If Virgin Atlantic fails to fly to Australia (within 18 months, say) I'd be prepared to suffer the indignity of donning one of your stewardesses brand new designer outfits and will work your flight from London to Australia serving your customers throughout," Branson said in a letter addressed to Qantas chief executive Dixon.

However, if Virgin Atlantic is up and running by next year, Branson wants Dixon to return the favor.

"On our inaugural flight from London to Australia you would wear one of our beautiful red Virgin Stewardesses uniforms and serve our inaugural guests all the way to Australia," said Branson, who is also the founder of Australian low cost carrier Virgin Blue.

Dixon wasn't impressed with Branson's offer.

"We are running an airline not a circus," Dixon said through a Qantas spokesman.

============================================

AAP

Air of suspicion hangs over Qantas's research tactics
July 24 2003

Keep your eyes peeled for any suspicious-looking characters lurking behind plant pots at the airport - they could be market researchers, according to Virgin Blue.

The budget airline has accused its rival Qantas of spooking staff and passengers with covert research tactics.

The airline claimed yesterday that several people had been acting suspiciously around Virgin Blue facilities over the past few years, and had been found, after police interviews, to be market researchers for Qantas.

A spokesman for Virgin Blue, David Huttner, said that lurking around terminals and "standing behind pot plants" only fuelled public fear of flying.

"In a post-Bali and post-September11 environment we think there is a better way to do your market research that doesn't make people nervous," he said.

Earlier this week a man was questioned by security staff and Australian Federal Police (AFP) at Sydney Airport after he was allegedly found in Virgin's freight shed.

The man claimed he was with the Department of Transport and the Sydney Airports Corporation, but Mr Huttner said he was later found to be one of several people employed by a market research firm acting for Qantas.

"The AFP keep taking these people in," Mr Huttner said at a tourism conference on the Sunshine Coast.

"No one's been charged by them and they have not done anything criminal.

"It's not dirty tricks but in these times they should have better ways of doing market research than trying to spook staff and passengers."

A spokeswoman for Qantas denied the man was found in Virgin's freight shed.

"Like all good companies, including Virgin Blue, Qantas contracts external companies to undertake market research," she said. "On this occasion the research was undertaken in a public area by an accredited researcher."

Mr Huttner said Virgin Blue also researched its competition but had never raised the attention of airport security officials or police.

AAP

==========================================

[cyclops camel]

Superb!!

Shame EK didn't think of a similar challenge regarding the new Fifth Freedom deal to NZ.

I expect silence will be the grave reply!

[Torres]

"We are running an airline not a circus," Dixon said through a Qantas spokesman.

Come on Geoff, lighten up! Where's your sense of humour?
:}

[SixStarAnsett]

I think staff morale would be hit maybe pretty hard to have your boss wearing the uniform of another carrier? Might even be comparable to the way AN staff felt about ANZ :mad:

I think RB only does it for publicity, not entirely because he is a 'humourist' (or whatever :rolleyes:-----if you're rich you are called eccentric :E). It would obviously get more publicity for his company if he was to issue a bizarre challenge to another airline boss.

And by being so jovial and lighthearted, he projects a different image about his airline...and captures attention and $$$.

What other airline boss does things like him? What other airline does things like him that haven't been copying him?

I consider him eccentric, but nevertheless definitely regard him and his companies important and (more or less) groundbreaking.

SixStarAnsett

[frangatang]

So the ankle biter is at it again but before all you flks shout yippee ask how his crappy train service is running in the uk.
You will be saddened to hear his hosties are not all svelte and blonde many are putting on condition as they say in australia.
Still they are alot better than birdseeds pot boilers

[Chocks Away]

Good on them.:ok:

Stark contrast with this. Aust./U.S. Report BAGS MANAGERS (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97145)

Fat bonus lifestyle could be diappearing...?:}

[Patriot One]

Geez, I don't know - it must be me. I think I fell asleep in a great time in aviation when we were proud of how professional we were and how it felt to work to beat the weather, the aircraft, anything they'd throw at us...and keep 'em flying. We worked with Pilots and Engineerings and together we had some pretty amazing experiences.

..and now I've woken up and suddenly it's gone to hell. Sense of humour? Does this make you feel proud when you hear your boss talk like this? What it does is it denegrates the industry, your airline and your profession.

I think some of you should speak with some of the people that have been working for Virgin Atlantic for 10-15 years. The b/s wears off and all you're left with is a bad taste in your mouth every time this clown gets up and says something.

VB benefited because Ansett fell over. VB was within 2 days of bringing in the administrators when Ansett beat them to the post. Don't believe me? Ask King Dick next time he's in Oz (if you can get him to tear himself away from your f/a's). Ask JR over a beer. Ask Godfrey when he's on his own and not trying to be like his master.

The fact is VB's only here because Ansett isn't, not because of some amazing success story. The product's crap, the planes uncomfortable, the fares are high (low fares my *rse!) and the only choice is QF. Ask yourself - where exactly is this airline saving money?

Won't be long guys - new airline on the way. Wonder if King Dick will get out via an IPO just in time? He's done it many, many times before.

[HGW]

Patriot one
Yes, it is you and what a load of rubbish "VB was within 2 days of calling in the administrators". Dickie was offered $250m and turned it down.
The beauty about choice is you don't have to fly Virgin if you think the product is crap. Stick with QF as you probably wont be missed amongst the millions of others who think differently.

The elusive other airline, bring it on. VB saw off two airlines (Impulse & Ansett).

I still have the receipt for my Aug 98 Ansett BNE - SYD one way flight of $450 and a return ticket for $705 both purchased 14 days in advance. So, don't bleat about fares not being cheaper now.

People seem to have short memories.

[Woomera]

Well c'mon Geoff, Aussies are supposed to be larrikins too and champions of the "battlers".

And let's face it they would make life even more difficult for SQ and the others you worry about.

Either way would be good for both.

I'll get dressed up in the uniform of whoever wins and help em with the service.:D :cool:

Do they have a size 18?:p

[The Bullwinkle]

PATRIOT ONE

How can you say that VB fares are not cheap.

QANTAS never had fares like they offer now, because they were so cosy with ANSETT. Introduce REAL competition and suddenly ANSETT and QANTAS drop their fares, one of them goes bust and the other tries to imitate the competitor !!!

And if VB wasn't here now, QANTAS would still be charging like a wounded bull.

You only have to look at their Qantaslink regulated routes where the government provides them with a monopoly.

Horn Island to Cairns return -- $ 759.00. But obviously for this price you would expect the best, right?

Two hours in a cramped turbo-prop, a poor excuse for a meal, your bags might travel on the same flight if you are lucky, and only if you book well in advance because they are likely to be completely sold out, and you can't just go and book a seat with the competitor because there isn't one.

If QANTAS has no competition, they charge what they like.

Don't pretend that QANTAS is our friend. They couldn't give a RAT's @rse.

[boocs]

Well done RB for stirring up the pot.
Crazy?
Looney?
Right place right time.........?
Who cares; 15 out of 10 for taking the initiative and giving it to a company (in my opinion) that has had it too good for too long and is only now (G.D's timing is impeccable) giving the line of "times are tough and we must cut back."
Times are indeed tough for VB. More aircraft arriving in the next few months.
Times are indeed tough for DragonAir. More pilot recruitment expected in the next few months.
And Cathay??? Sydney next month....
By any means I do not wish any bad feeling or future towards any QF employee, indeed I hope that you will see through the next 18 months with flying colours. But....
That's enough.
Next in line for the soapbox...

[Patriot One]

None so blind as those who will not see..

..geez..more aircraft - they must be rolling in it. In the history of aviation adding more aircraft and seats rarely equated to success. More often it was the first mistake that finally was the undoing and ultimately the beginning of the end.

..you were all surprised when Ansett collapsed. You were all surprised when Impulse was sold off...and even now you so niaively believe in VB's success....tell me, what exactly is it about VB that passengers like?

..funny - I didnt realise they'd already strengthened all your cockpit doors in VB. They must have because you guys obviously never look at the type of people sitting in your seats..

...you challenge my claims - why not go ask the powers that be?

Think it's time I went back to sleep - hopefully I'll wake up and it'll all be back to normal. Within 18 months VB will be a thing of the past - dead and buried with accusations flying left and right. You guys'll hopefully have got jobs elsewhere, but there will be 5 very fat and rich people - King Dick and his 4 Apostles.

Chaos, disorder, confusion - my work here is done!

[The Bullwinkle]

PATRIOT ONE

You must be the most well-balanced person I know.

A chip on both shoulders !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Patriot One]

..now that's the most decent response in this thread...

..and hey, if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black!

[Torres]

Patriot One. Not sure which aviation industry you were in, but in my 30 years in the industry and even before that, Australian aviation was led by battling larrikins who pulled off some amazing coups! Kingsford Smith, Reg Ansett and Hudson Fysh to name but a few.

I don't have any thoughts one way or the other for Virgin etc., but Branson just pulled off a marketing coup and had a ball doing it.

Back to serious things. Woomera - NO!!!!! DON'T!!!!! Air sickness is one thing, but the sight of you in a Trolley Dolly’s rig makes me feel positively ..... well ..... nauseous!!!:yuk: :yuk:

P.S. Size 18? You been dieting lately?? :}

[linepilot]

Didn't RB say only a few days ago Concorde to AUS by Xmas!
In the space of a few days,it's blown out to 18 months!
At this rate they'll never get here.

[Whiskery]

VB was within 2 days of bringing in the administrators

I have had many a beer with JR and you, my friend, are FULL OF IT !!

Keep the faith :]

[Pole Vaulter]

W
Do you REALLY think JR would tell you if his airline was about to fail. Talk about blind belief.

[Whiskery]

Vaulter - it's NOT JR's airline and just because you can't get a job with Virgin Blue doesn't mean you have to agree with every clown who prays for the airline's demise !!

IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN !

Keep the faith:]

[Buster Hyman]

I think Dicky's the Anti-Christ!:} :} :} :p

But that's just a personal opinion!;)

[Kaptin M]

So from the non-Christian viewpoint, is that a GOOD thing, or a BAD thing, Buster? ;)

[Buster Hyman]

Well, I suppose it depends on whether you are the Christian, or the Lion!!!:eek:

But, far too deep for this thread Kaptin!:p

:}

[Spotlight]

Amos

Tear your ticket up mate. Its a ringer. (P1 That is).

[404 Titan]

Oh and in case you were wondering, we’re not hung up on flying through Hong Kong. You might end up doing your days work experience through Singapore, Thailand or Malaysia instead.
As I have said before in a previous thread, for Virgin Atlantic to fly through any of these countries to Australia and pick up passengers enroute they are going to have to have Fifth Freedom rights. These agreements aren’t between airlines, they are between governments. The British government has been trying to get Fifth Freedom rights through Hong Kong for British carriers for at least six years but the Hong Kong government wants similar rights for Hong Kong carriers through Great Britain. To this end the British Government have flatly refused. So I can’t see them flying through Hong Kong any time soon. As for Singapore, I think that Singapore Airlines might have something to say about that, as they are a large shareholder in Virgin Atlantic. I don’t know how negotiations are going for Fifth Freedom rights between the governments of Thailand, Malaysia and Great Britain but if they are anything like the negotiations with the Hong Kong government, then all I can say is that it is going to be a long time before Virgin Atlantic fly to Australia via any of these Asian ports.
:)

[B772]

I believe Virgin Atlantic have traffic rights LHR-KUL, LHR-SYD and KUL SYD. The rights are currently being exercised using a code share with MH.

I recently saw an ad for "Fly to London on Impulse" which caught my eye. It was a Virgin Atlantic add for discount seats aimed at last minute travellers.

[frangatang]

So someone has a chip on both shoulders..... must be australian!
Seriously though RB employees must cringe when they read his
infantile messages on the side of his aircraft eg. mines bigger than yours, 4 engines for long haul, no way BA AA, etc.
He is also a private company and you will never find out how
badly he is doing at any moment in time.He also squeals
loudly when he doesnt get his own way

[RaTa]

Whether you love him or hate him, RB is all about publicity for himself (mainly) and his companies. You have to admit that he has done very well this week and he can't loose because he knows GD will not take up the challenge!
If Virgin Atlantic in 18 months is still not flying UK-Aust, who will remember what RB said, next to nobody........good publicity!

[Sheep Guts]

Dixon's response is to be expected, I suppose for all those dreary shareholders out there. I myself am not Impressed and will vote my concerns at the next QF AGM. If a highly paid CEO cant think of anything in response to Bransons cheeky offer, well Im stunned.

Maybe I should dump my My Qantas shares while I still can afford a Type Rating with them, before they only cover a renewall....:uhoh: :sad: :rolleyes:

[B772]

Virgin Atlantic are getting closer.

Just read a press release where Virgin Atlantic are going to code share on the 5 times a week SQ service from Manchester to Singapore.

[Johhny Utah]

B772 - that's a pretty optimistic outlook based purely on a codeshare arrangement being put in place - hardly an indicator of Virgin Atlantic starting operations in their own right. After all, if we were to apply the same logic to QF, then the following routes must be kicking off shortly:
Argentina, Chile, Canada, China, Dubai, Finland, Korea, Samoa, Switzerland, Zimbabwe & Vietnam - phew...! :rolleyes:

I'd suggest that Branson & his team might have a much harder time getting 5th freedom rights through to Australia than the boss would like. But, as RaTa has suggested, at the end of the day it is more about getting publicity for RB than announcing any well thought out business strategies. :*

Just my thoughts...

[Sheep Guts]

Johny Utah,

Yes well most of those destinations QF dont run, but they did one for awhile and thats Argentina. One of its route culls post 9/11 and the economic fall out of that country.

As for Branson not getting rights to fly to Oz what do you know that we dont?

He Allready has an Operation in country and its by all accounts doing very well.

QF is not really expanding at this stage and is looking like its growth is stunted. Due SARS etc.

If whats happeneing at BA is an indicator to what might happen at QF well who knows. And we all know that BA still has a 25% stake in QF. Poor BA are getting "Rodgered" at the moment, those of you who are CX would understand what that means.....:E

Will QF get " Dicked" aswell?


Regards
Sheep