Gulf Air

[Sabastienl]

Hi Guys,

I don't know if you can help me? Friend of mine just applied for an AME position with Gulf Air, and he was told it is not an AME position they are advertizing for but rather a "Defect Review Engineer" at Maintenance Control Center in Manama.

Never the less he wants to find out few things about Gulf Air beside what we all see on the web site "General Stuff". He has been offered a package which in my openion "I could be off on this" is little low for a guy with his experience and he is from England. The package they are offering is:

- $3258.00 U.S. for a single/month

- $3758.00 U.S. for a family/month

- One bus. class travel ticket/year

- Company health Insurance

- Schooling for the kids

And that's it! what I mean they didn't

offer him company Accomedation nor Transprotation, they told him we will deduct Approx. $800 U.S. for company
Accomedation of the salary listed above. So after everything said and done he should have less than $3000 U.S. dollars/month.

The guy is presently earning $49000 U.S. working for a well reputable airline and has all the benefits of the majors with over 13 years of experience in aviation. Guys don't mind me stating things to my disliking, I am just looking out for the good of my friend, that's all.

This guy has A320 approval, A.340/330 approvals, B.767 and others which are not relavant to Gulf Air. So I am kind of shocked to hear what they are offering. Never the less he has yet to give them an answer for an intreview date since he dosen't know if he should go for it or not, as it is he is making more money than what they are offering him and he is living at home. I think if he decides to go for it, it will be for experience only.

Guys any replies will be well appreciated just to help him out, especially from Gulf Air AMEs or flight crews that have an idea of the payscale at Technical Operations"MCC" for British X-pats and what sort of package other people have been offerd, company culture, weather he can negotiate the package....you know this sort of thing, also any info. on the interview process like "any written exams involved part of the interview-and how much in depth " will be well appreciated, just in case he decides to go for it. He seems to be interested in landing a job in the Gulf region. Look forward to hear from ya all.


Cheers
:ok:

[mono]

Go to the interview and find out. There is no obligation to join!

There may be more than meets the eye.

I must say however that the salary seems a little low, even allowing for the fact that it is tax free. I get more than that after tax!!

[ilovegordon]

:rolleyes: quote

The guy is presently earning $49000 U.S. working for a well reputable airline and has all the benefits of the majors

unquote

the money & benefits your friend making look impressive by any standard. ask your friend what figure he/she is looking for.

for typical contractor - USD $8,000 per month with very very very little benefit.

[Sabastienl]

ASFKAP, mono, ilovegordon

"Thanks guys for your replies"

I agree with you guys completely. Matter fact I told him what I think they are offering (a package tailored for Asian Engineers), but not to Brits or Yanks. Matter fact I have seen ads. not a while back I just don't recall where but for A&P licensed guys with endorsments on biz jets and the offer
was $60,000.00 U.S. + all the other benefits and working for small FBO out of Saudi. My point is given the fact that GF is an Intl. airline and giving wages like that to western X-pats is a
...BIG JOKE......

ASFKAP

Your conversion to 1800 seems to be close enough, and I agree with you it still dosen't cut it for the sandpit! Considering also where he is going to work "MCC=high pressure".

Mono

You mentioned he should go for the interview and find out, I guess he can do that but I don't think anything will be changed! just from reading the posts placed on PPrune by fellow pilots it tells me that GF may promise you something to get you to the interview and then offer you something else. The offer is too low to even consider in my openion, weather you want to base it on European or North American standards even if you take into consideration the "Tax Free clause" it is still not attractive by western stads.


ilovegordon

The money he is making is defenitily great with the benefits on top of it-no question to that. But I am not so sure if they are willing to pay him $8000/month with very little benefits or even with no benefits. I think $8000/month is quite a high figure, needless to say 76 captain with GF makes less than $8000/month from what I have read and GF pilots make the highest salary in GF. Plus this guy will be working for them as an employee not as contractor from what I understand.


In my openion he should be getting around $5000/month plus everything else on top. Which makes him $60000.U.S./year keeping in mind it is not Saudi "Better than Saudi" but at the same time GF is an Internationl airline "bigger co. than FBO in Saudi", as well to attract him to work in the sandpit offering him $11000 on top of his current salary as an insetive so he can say .....Yes.

It would be interesting to find out weather he can negotiate his package during the interview process or not.

Look forward to your replies

Cheers

:ok:

[Jango]

GAMCO and Gulf Air are in the same boat. They always want to pay next to nothing. See the GAMCO thread, my buddy lasted 6 weeks!!

The Defect Engineer job they basically want to pay this guy clerks wages and Bahrain is not cheap, tax or no tax.

Sad to see that this company has gone this way, used to be the best in the Middle East. But now they can not compete with the likes of EK and QR. With Oman Air on the rise aswell, Gulf Air are having it tough and do not know how to respond.

[reracked.au]

Re GF
Of interest to some may be the following. As all the Aussie forum reading LAMEs will know, 'The Australian' newspaper on a friday has a weekly Aviation Forum for the Australia-Pacific region (Incidently, this Aviation section as an attachment, may be be purchased to be delivered to your in-box each friday Eastern Australia time, containing news and jobs. www.news.com.au then follow the prompts to 'The Australian' then to Aviation. I cant recall the cost, but its not expensive )

Having said all that. I am not an employee of News Limited and only provide this as general interest. And I can tell you that there are few if any, maintenance positions listed at the moment. This has generally been the case thus far this year

Anyway, back to GF. Todays issue has an interview with the Australian GM of GulfAir. It appeared he was talking the carrier up, saying that next financial year they are expecting a -20M loss and, to break even 2005.

Recent A340 aquisitons, and increasing the Gulf traveller fleet of 767s, from six to nine aircraft were mentioned. As was a decision "in the first quarter of next year" in regards further aircraft to join the fleet. Seeking double daily services to SYD and AUH. A prospective North American sector was also broached, as was returning to Basra and Baghdad when appropriate.

Anyway, best Wishes to all,

reracked.au

[Sabastienl]

ilovegordon

Hi there sorry it took a while to reply back
I have been very busy.

you mentioned "for typical contractor - USD $8,000 per month with very very very little benefit", that seems to me a lot of money but it's good pay, matter fact for this kind of pay I will definitly go for it myself. I would appreciate any info. on the operator that is willing to pay this much-you can send me a private message, highly appreciate it!

Cheers mate!

;) :ok:

[Sabastienl]

Jenco, reracked.au

Jenco....... you hit the nail right on the head, you are 100% right about Gulf Air and I agree with you. Gulf Air used to aquire western x-pats AMEs and pay them well and treat them right, those days are gone I guess, as well Gulf Air used to be the pride of the Gulf.....those days are also long gone as long as they continue to aquire cheap labor with limited expertiese.....what a pitty! It seems to me that Gulf Air always have something up their sleeve hoping some desperate AME from the west will become the next sucker into accepting their Asian package crap!


reracked.au

I must tell you that I am fully aware of the AMEs market situation out there weather it be in Aus.,N.America,Europe
it is pretty rough out there no doubt, but at the same time the situation with gulf airlines seem to be quite good comparing to the rest of the world. It seems to me that aviation is still o.k. in that neck of the woods and we don't have to go to far to see it,all we have to look at is Ek as a perfect example generating profit hand over fist, QR is doing o.k. on rapid expansion plans, as well as Oman Air. The only airline struggeling is Gulf Air and have finaly generated profit in its last quarter, which tells me something about their poor mangt. team at Gulf Air!......... Maybe it is about time to stop day dreaming and wake up and smell the coffee and maybe they should stop thinking about their own personal pocket interst and start maybe paying more attention to the airline well being and how to guide it on the right track on day to day basis starting with Aus. ceo at the helm to set an example.

I completely disgree with the fact that due to hard times right now in the aviation field an AME should be happy and thankful for what he gets in job opportunity, very wrong attitude! the reason I say this is because the more we accept low wages,poor working conditions,asian peanut salaries for western x-pats expertiese, the more companies like Gulf Air, GAMECO and others will continue to offer cheap salaries and hope a sucker out there in the western world will bite the bait. And since Gulf Air and others have seen it happen in the past and they were successful they will continue to do it as long as we don't stick to our guns and stand our grounds it is as simple as this.

I will be lieing to say I won't be interested if Gulf Air or other major airline in the middle east come knocking on my door offering me a job, but I will definitly not accept anything less than what I deserve as an AME with a good incentive to work in the sandpit, otherwise I will not prostitute myself. It is a matter of principle and common sense to me that's all. "I provide a highly sought after service, and they need it in order to conduct bus.". And as I said earlier I agree with Jenco tax or no tax Bahrain is an expensive place to live.

Look forward to your replies!


Cheers ;) :ok:

[reracked.au]

sebastianl

Gday. I see from your profile that you listed yourself as a pilot. Yet you mention in the proceeding post that youre an AME (also?). Please clear this up when you next write.

Firstly I do take some offence to you alluding to the fact that Western AMEs such as I are quote "prostituting" unquote, ourselves in order to return to the industry.

Mate, your idealism is admirable, and I agree with you that having spent many years (15 in fact with a carrier) in the industry and having spent the majority of those years studying, my services are indeed marketable.

But mate, what can you do. If you get down off the horse of idealism, youll see that noble ideals dont pay bills....or keep licences current for that matter.

When someone enjoys their profession and an opening appears that allows them to return to their profession, as opposed to a milk-run for example, then ill take the former.

Dont get me wrong, ill not work for peanuts, but if the tax-free amount on offer comes in close to an in-the-hand amount from the Australian carrier I was with, then thatll be fine with me.

regards

reracked.au

[Sabastienl]

Idealism Not!


reracked.au

Hi mate.......my apologies for getting U confused, rest assure I
hold both licenses with over 15 years of maintenance
experience "line+heavy" I hope this will clear the confusion.

mate first and formost don't go around shooting guns with no
bullets, confirm the gun is loaded and then start shooting
otherwise you will be wasting your time and be called "blank
shooter"!........mate nobody mentioned anything about U nor
meant any harm to you or to my fellow AMEs, nor I am aware
of U looking for a job, don't be too sensitive it will kill ya!

my previous post is a genral, having seen how the two groups
(pilots+AMEs)operate and huddle together, I can say from
experience that pilots are better bunch in sticking together and
standing up for their rights than AMEs and the reason for that is
that they stand their ground firmly. And I am not talking from
idealism, far away from that. Mate a person has to do what ever
it takes to get back to work that's for sure!

......all I am saying is that all of us have worked hard to get to
where we are today and have aquired great experience in doing
so and I think we should get rewarded accordingly not according
to what they find is feasible to them to pay and us accept due to
the nature of the industry, very wrong!. The bar should never be
lowered when it comes to your salary and mine due to industry
crisis, and meanwhile the guys on top are making the big $$$$$
off your back and mine "don't kid yourself". Mate let me ask U
this, do you lower your maintenance stds. because you are
getting paid less? I am sure not.!


mate... Gulf Air and other airlines in the middle east have always
tried to cut cost in this fashion by wanting to obtain western
experience with Asian salaries. Gulf Air was successful in the
past in getting guys to agree to that and they figured they will
continue to do it as long as we bite and prostitute ourselves.
If you ever get a chance to get down to that neck of the world,
have a look at the people that work for GF,EK,QR MAJORITY
Asians=cheap labor,as far as those airlines are concerned
that's just perfect for them! use and abuse the Asians for
as long as they can get away with it.

For those airlines to get me working for them they have to show
me the incentive to go down to the sandpit regardless how nice
the pit is! I don't come from a third world country nor do I provide
my serviecs for peanuts and a smile only! and nor should U! Gulf
Air and others in the region pry off people accepting their cheap
wages because they figure they offer X-pats tax free
enviornment that should be good enough incentive to work in the
sandpit! keeping in mind the region is very fimiliar with Asians
and how desperate they are in getting jobs down there and Gulf
Air and others try to apply the same formula to western X-pats.


I hope you get my point, and I am clear on things!

Look forward to hear from you mate and best of luck in job searching!


Cheers ;) :ok:

[whatbolt]

GA havent treated engineers (or any staff for that matter) well since the early eighties-been there got the Tee shirt-my advice dont bother even with the interview unless of course you like being used and abused which you can do at home in your own culture and language if that turns you on.

[Sabastienl]

whatbolt

You are quite right, and that's the reason

he never went for the interv....they can

take their job and shove it for all he cares

where the sun don't shine..... :yuk:

;) :ok: