QF Management Pilot's

[Four Points]

I am almost certain by asking a question of this nature alot of people out there in Pprune land will beat me into submission. To late QF already has.

This question is directed to all the QF Management Pilot's. Could you people please explain to me and others why Qantas reject 99% of Pilot's that apply from the Qantas owned regional airlines? What have we done to be treated this way? We are a bunch of dedicated people, I am sure not unlike yourself. So what is the problem? Come clean and tell us all. Is it the training cost? If so you people should look at the turn over rate. I hope Virgin Blue bleeds the QF regionals dry to demonstrate that QF Regional Airline Pilots are a quality of Pilot/people sought after by other companies.

I guess after making this type of accusation there will be a few regional Pilot's recruited so it dosen't look like discrimination......

Four Points

Go on punk take your best shot. I am waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Spin Doctor]

I guess the people in ga, ex military, ex ansett, etc etc all need an explanation as well.

But of course you passed all criteria and got caught up in a master plan by Qantas.

Everyone should beat you into submission, you are not the only one to miss out, so be happy you are one step down the food chain as many are not so fortunate.

[fartsock]

Spinner,

The lack of progression is a deliberate policy by QF to try and reduce cross training costs.

The irony is that in doing so a significant number of experienced and competent number of pilots have voted with their feet and joined DJ instead.

Personally, I think this is a disgrace, but it probably effects someones bonus so I can't see any change in this unfair and discriminatory policy in the future.

Good luck to you and your colleagues

[Mud Skipper]

99% is a bit harsh. I've flown with quite a few ex regionals.

But yes, I understand your gripe, I think Ansett did the same with it's regionals. In fact I've heard of pilots resigning from one regional and working for the opposition to successfully improve their chances of joining the original parent airline! The flood eventually resulted in word comming down you would be black listed if you resigned. Damed if you stayed or left.

**** happens, it's not right or fair.
:\

[Hugh Jarse]

Never a truer word, Fartsock. The difficulty is in proving it. The Evil Empire are laughing their collective arses off :sad:

[huan hung lo]

It is unfair and bloody stupid.

The regionals have some very talented pilots amongst their ranks but QF doesn't give a rats arse.

Now Virgin are smarter than that as they actively source pilots from the regionals.

Its no wonder Virgin are rapidly eroding QF's market share.

Their recruitment policy is but one indication of how enlightened their management really are.

They poach QF regional guys and gain a wealth of experience while QF spends more money training their replacements.

Hello QF! Anybody in there? Not firing on all cylinders are we?

[hoss]

I think that a couple of guys have been accepted into VB from Eastern Australia Airlines this week:ok: .

Any truth to the rumour of VB starting a SY base in January?

If so, QF may see some more of their experienced and efficient Regional Pilots changing camp:ok:.

Just about every second question I get asked in the Crewroom is, "do you know of anyone with an interview/have you got an interview etc.".

Just an indication of the general feeling amongst the 'troops'.

Safe flying, hoss:)

[bonvol]

What they do is start their career in AIPA and learn all about the "union".

Once they have learnt enough they then jump over to management and immediately help them draw up strategies to screw their colleagues.

The pilot group endorse this wholeheartedly as they love being done over and pay copious sums to the union for the privilege.

:rolleyes:

[Capt Fathom]

Fourpoints,

You've obviously got a job lined up with VB!
Why worry about who QF mainline is or isn't employing?

[Four Points]

Capt F,

I care because QF treatment of the very dedicated regional pilot's is unjust, unfair and morally wrong. These pilot's should have more than equal footing than new hire's from the street. QF have access to the regional pilot check and training reports and I'm sure this would include their employment history. Qantas wakeup and smell the rose's. Use this fine resource that is at your finger tips.

Stop this discrimination now............................

There is that word again discrimination. Qantas....


Four Points

[Four Points]

I know you QF management people would view this web site, come clean and respond.

Four Points.

[Cynical MoFo]

Or of course there is the other trick they seem to like to pull off....

Absorb a new airline (or merge one with another, Southern style), lay off pilots, offer them a "merit-based" interview for mainline positions and then tell them they've been unsuccessful and are never to re-apply. Not even come back in 6/12/24 months - NEVER!

So in the space of a few months these dedicated regional airline pilots have gone from what some would see as an enviable job to being kicked out on the street and having one of the greatest reasons they started flying in the first place denied them for ever.

Nice. :mad:

Allegedly.

[Four Points]

Come on QF Boses stand up and be counted. Your mouth takes you everywhere else so use it now or stop this discrimination today.......................................



:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Four Point

[downwind]

Guys,

I agree about the frustration, especially the Easterns/sunnies drivers, its seems as though the mighty QF take pleasure in shafting their own troops. These pilots are on par to there mainline counterparts, ie flying wise, management etc.... So why don't they use there resources properly, and at the end of the day dollars and cents, in simply taking these guys on.

They have done all the aptitude style of tests, sim etc.... But a different style of face to face interview but essentially looking for the same quality’s, come on QF flying an a/c IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!!!!!!!! As you might like to think so look at how DJ do it, less fuss, less b/s and the same result in a timely and safe manner.

I think it will take some person to show QF how to recruit pilots one day and show them what they really should be doing with aircrew recruitment in the future.

As to the QF regional guys going to DJ, good on you, you deserve a pat on the back, to say "to hell with them".

Really on face value what is so good about QF anyway, a s/o flying a b744 or b767 on great wage, (over inflated for what they do) that’s it really, it is simply the money. I believe when the bean counters finally realise the days of big bucks are gone, the pilots at QF will simply be that just pilots who go to work.

Do we really do flying for the money or for the love of it, remember when you first went solo, or when you got into ANY airline, I bet you would have felt really good.

Guys who don't get into QF but get into DJ well done, don't think of yourselves as second rate, but just as good or maybe even better than the QF guys. Think about it!!!!!! :O

[OneDotLow]

Dont really want to stir the pot here, but just offer up a suggestion...

Would QF have employed you had you submitted your application to them when you had the minimum required hours? QF have a low minimum hours requirement, and among other things this allows them to gauge just how interested you are in getting a job there... This doesnt mean that they dont employ people with regional experience; i have seen it happen. Anyone wish to disagree here?

Who would you employ if you were running a company?

Having said all of that, best of luck to all of you and I hope that you all end up where you want to, getting paid what you DESERVE to be paid!!!

I shall ask the question that has been asked many times before... Why do we (as a group) seek to lower the wages of our colleagues?? I put it down to jealousy of a few, but you can put it down to whatever you want... Think about it!!!!!!!!!!:8

[Cap10 Caveman]

Really on face value what is so good about QF anyway, a s/o flying a b744 or b767 on great wage, (over inflated for what they do) that’s it really, it is simply the money.

.......better money, better variety of aircraft, better destinations. I know who I'd rather work for! (Even if they were paying DJ salaries - so it's not just a case of "simply the money")

[OneDotLow]

.......better money, better variety of aircraft, better destinations. I know who I'd rather work for! (Even if they were paying DJ salaries - so it's not just a case of "simply the money")

I assume you mean "Even if DJ were paying the salaries the QF are paying"... ;) Honestly guys, lets stop pretending that QF wages are too high, surely its the other wages that are too low!!! Whether you like it or not, QF wages are low by WORLD STANDARDS...

If you wish to disagree with this one, then i expect when you finally get the airline job you may be looking for, you will personally return your "excess" pay (read the difference between DJ and QF). :yuk:
...."yeah right, like we are going to do that"....

When pulling down what others have worked to get, bear in mind that one day soon, the shoe may be on the ohter foot...

[Hugh Jarse]

I'm not going to get into the $$ side of it.

QF could save themselves quite a bit of $$. Many people working in their subsidiaries have over 5 years worth of FT9 and 10's in their files, making them a known quantity. That should give them (QF) some idea of the "technical" quality or prospects of potential candidates.

Interviews should sort out the "suitability" personality wise.

The trouble is nobody wants to set a precedent. A precedent that has the potential to improve a severely depressed morale tenfold.

Can anyone quantify what effect severely depressed morale has on an airline's safety?

Anybody?:confused:

[EPIRB]

Hey One Dot, hows the classic treating you?

[OneDotLow]

Gday EPRIB,
sorry mate, not on the classic... must be getting me confused with someone else...
odl

[EPIRB]

Aren't you the One Dot Low who was seconded from Ansett to Kendell's on the RJ?

[Four Points]

Thanks to all who have posted replies on this thread.

But so far those QF management types are still hiding behind "MUMMIES SKIRT" OR MAYBE" WIFIES DRESS", come out, come out where ever you are.

Be big people and talk about grown up stuff like DISCRIMINATION............... Whoops there's that word again.

Come on be tough and type away so we all know the facts Jack.

Four Points.

[OneDotLow]

EPIRB,
Sorry my friend, but its not me... A few people have also thought i was that person as well. All i can suggest is the I either signed up his/her name after it was no longer used, or else there were spaces between the One Dot Low. :D

4 Points,
When did you submit your application to QF Mainline? Have you completed any stages of the process? I doubt that they would let guys through from the subsidaries (of which i have seen quite a few - and i wouldnt say a disproportionate number either!!) at all if the wanted to discriminate.... I would be interested to hear what your thoughts are on that?

And finally why would anyone from mangement in any airline use this internet bulletin board to "chat" about an employment process???? If you want an answer, ask them directly, and sign your name to it! If needs be take it to a higher level..... but i dont think any of you would do that, would you??? Thats the problem with this place... too many people say all these things, and will never put it into action.
I do agree that anonymity is a wonderful thing SOMETIMES, but in this instance it serves to only dull your screams...

[Four Points]

One Dot Low.

With all the recruitment that has been ongoing at QF for sometime. That is until all the recent world events there was only one person from EAA successful. This person was thought to have been employed still by REX. However, he had been at EAA since ANSETT fell over. He had updated his application to reflect his new employer. QF smart management did not discover this fact until the final interview. Apparently the interviewers asked about REX and this person said he hadn't worked at REX for sometime and that he was currently employed by EAA, well that was basically the end of the interview, he thought at the time he had missed out because of that question. Thankfully, he still got the job.

He was the first person successfully recruited from EAA by QF in 2 1/2 years. There hasn't been another since.

All the Pilot's from SAA were given the opportunity to apply/re-apply and all were unsuccessful, this includes the BA146 Pilot's already flying Jet's with a red tail. The profit's from all the regionals finally end up at QF. So why is QF so "hell bent" on destroying these people's careers? Their employment records, FT9s and FT10s are there waiting to be read to prove their value as a pilot.

Somebody please tell me what is so different from flying a BA146 to a B737 or B767 or B747 appart from size and pay packet. At the end of the day they are all aircraft designed to be flown by the average Pilot. QF has stated in the past they could teach "monkey's" to fly their aircraft. So why won't they give their experienced regional Pilot's a fair go?


Four Points

[Kaptin M]

From the postings on here wrt QF, my opinion is that you're better OUT of it right now, than being IN there, with what looks like is brewing!!

The way Dixon is talking, "management" intend to squeeze QANTAS for every drop they can...read retrenchments.

And THEN..............walk away from it! (as they count the millions of $$$'s paid to them in "performance bonuses").

[OneDotLow]

4points,
I know a barrell load of ex "Impulse" guys who are in now... surely the policies you speak of would be applied to them as well...
I cant speak as to the accuracy of your figures, as I am in no position to know, however that does seem awfully low. But i say again, why would the not employ you guys and yet employ the Impulse blokes (and girls)??
odl

[RaTa]

Four Points

I've been in QF since the mid 80s and can't ever remember the comment "Qf has stated in the past they could teach "monkeys" to fly their aircraft".

[Chocks Away]

Four Points figures are correct.

Not a "nice set of numbers", are they?

:}

[dumbass]

One Dot Low

Your reference is a little incorrect since QF has taken over Impulse you could count on one hand the number of pilots they have taken on. When the B1900 stopped operating 35 guys were left without work. Like SAA we were told to apply to mainline and we'll get preferential treatment. that treatment being they'll take $165 dollars from us and then tell us all (except for one person who was already at stage 2 when this happened) thanks but no thanks. the barrel loads (up to 15 per year at one stage) you speak of was what use to occur prior to qantas buying impulse.

Sounds suspect doesn't it.

[Four Points]

My figures are correct. QF we are all watching with future recruitment. One day soon some people may just ban together and take the necessary action.

ALPA should support this as well. They are about to embark on the biggest fight of their lives with the flood gates that are about to open from across the Tasman.

What all the Pilot groups need at the moment is 1 union for all the groups. Strength in numbers and all that stuff.

Come on all of you lets get together and have 1 union represent us and band together as one entity.

[Hugh Jarse]

4 Points, AIPA is not the union for you(us). Just take a look at Qrewroom and the disillusionment. The domestic guys are staring down the barrel of Jetconnect, Australian etc with little apparent representation. Until the 400's are under threat I suspect there will be no change....

TWU sounds like the go folks. AFAP are a bunch of gun-shy pussies :8

Perhaps the AFAP don't realise it, but from the feedback I've seen, the only reason the majority of their members are there is for the MBF. Without that, they are nothing.

Surely there has to be a better product out there?

HELP!!:E

[OneDotLow]

Folks,
Well I really cant comment on your stats, as i dont have access to that sort of info, but when it comes down to it... Its their trainset...
Id better run out of this topic now... looks like a war is about to take place..... incoming!!!
Cheers
ODL

[RaTa]

Rostov

Not quite true about AIPA and Vq. AIPA is not allowed to approach pilot groups represented by another union, it is seen as poaching and it is against industrial law.
However if those pilots are not satisfied with their current union, then as a group they can approach AIPA with a view representation. I doubt that would happen.

[Waste Gate]

I don't think there would be a single mainline driver who doesn't feel that pilots from our regionals shouldn't have equal opportunity to apply for mainline.

I once flew B1900s for Impulse (well before the tie - up) so I appreciate the skills and experience which regional pilots have to offer. And as Jarse says, there is a wealth of training data on these guys. I consider my time at Impulse to be the most important part of my early experience, and to be perfectly honest, domestic flying in the "east coast commuter jet":yuk: is frighteningly similar to the old "all stops" north from Newcastle in the B1900.

Now Virgin are smarter than that as they actively source pilots from the regionals.

"Huan Hung Lo", I think it's really regrettable that regional pilots have to go and work for Virgin for career fulfillment, but don't kid yourself that Virgin is directly trying to hurt Qantas. It's got more to do with CASA's concern at Virgin's depth of inexperience. The experience regional drivers come with addresses that issue.

WG.

[RaTa]

Rostov

I just rang AFAP, they seem to think they represent Impulse pilots and that they have done so for a number of years.
I do not know the mechanics for a change, but AIPA cannot go after representation of Impulse pilots unless the pilots as a majority group approach AIPA first.
I know there was some talk between Impulse pilots and AIPA when they were purchased by Qantas, but perhaps the Impulse Pilot's Council did not have the backing for a change.

[Loco's Smoko]

RaTa,

I have to go along with Rostov on this one. The Impulse Pilot Council who was looking at the Option of having AIPA represent Impulse Pilots. However when the AIPA was approached by the Council themeselves seeking if AIPA were interested in representing ALL impulse pilots the response was along the lines of Not Interested.

Don't Worry it surpirsed me also that they would find it more of an advantage to keep the to groups apart. Everyone talks about all being under one Banner and how we shouldn't let them divide and conquer but it seems as though the divide and conquer spirit comes from within us. Having said that I'm more than happy to listen to AIPA's reasoning for saying no and more than willing to accept there decision. I just thought it a vit of a strange strategic move.

[bonvol]

AIPA originally set themselves up because they wanted to be elite. They didnt want to associate with those light aircraft drivers in domestic and were sure they could do better by themselves. Now they have morphed into a company union, essentially a training ground for management.

I'm with Jarse on this one, get the TWU on the job. At least they will have a go.

[RaTa]

Loco's Smoko
There must have been some stumbling block as there was definite interest at AIPA committee level to bring them on board.

bonvol
Not that I condone it, but it is not that unusual for ex union heads to go into managment, I've seen it a number of times in other airlines. There have been times where I would have to agree with you and Jarse with regards TWU.
As for "light aircraft drivers" bla bla bla, a lot of us thought they should be allowed to come into AIPA.

[Loco's Smoko]

RaTa,

I'm not aware of your position within AIPA but If that is the case then maybe you should pm me, or get in contact with the IPC because everyone on this end seems to think that AIPA gave us the brush off.

[buckray]

Not sure about your take on history bonvol but as I recall A.I.P.A was formed as a direct result of one third of a Unions membership contributing more than 50% of its income ,yet getting less than 50% in the representation stakes. As to the idea of a super union representing all aviation interests not much chance of it happening under the current legislation.

[Four Points]

Thanks to all who have replied. QF management are a bunch of pussies.............

[ftrplt]

Four Points, if you seriously believe QF management would be even the slighest bit interested to respond to you on this forum then you are extremely naive

[OneDotLow]

ftrplt....you beat me to it...:8