Commissioning for Non-pilot Aircrew

[R C]

Hello there,

Sorry to trouble you all - I am quite keen on joining the RAF as Aircrew, but have failed the Pilot aptitude tests twice. I am very eager to go for Airloadmaster or perhaps Airengineer instead. I know that you have to be a Sargeant to do those jobs which is fine, as I really want to fly.

However, I would also one day like to go for a Commission, as Aircrew, but have been told that soon there will only be commissioned pilots left.

Can anyone please tell me what the future really is, as the advice from the careers office is vague to say the least. Is there a future for commissioned aircrew? Thank you for your time.

[bigley]

Whilst there are no more opportunities to commission within branch, ie ALM or Eng, there are opportunities to commission as a WSO. Furthermore, should you really want to commission after you have served a while as NCA, there are branches such as Flt Ops, which would appreciate the aircrew experience you would bring across. If you want any more info then PM me.

[Trollied Dolly]

As of this year NCA can no longer commission within their branches. They can commission as something else though.

As far as I know, all (or the vast majority) of Air Engineers were serving Airmen before opting for Eng. Can't think of any that have been direct entrants.

Go Loadie!!!

[Throttle Pusher]

If you have failed the test twice do not despair. If you want a flying career join as NCA. There are many direct entry air engineers in the air force but I believe the school is due to close in 2004. There is the opportunity to apply for a commission as a pilot or WSO once you have completed your aircrew training, and experience as an ALM/AEng /AEOp may provide you with that extra knowledge to pass the pilot aptitude test.
If you really want to fly then go for an NCA option then apply for a commission after that. Pilot is the best thing to be, but if you can't get that then the other flying branches are still a great way to earn a living (despite the negative things you might read on other posts on this forum)

[c130 alm]

Throttle Pusher...

The RAF no longer take direct entrant Air Engineers. The last one was at Cranwell 2 years ago and did not pass the Airman Aircrew Initial Training Course (This was not a reflection on DE Air Engineers but more on the fact that he was an idiot)

R C ....

As people have said already, go for pilot if you can and NCA after that. Have a real look into WSop though as the new system of taking NCA into the RAF and then deciding what trade they are best suited to afterwards, is an attempt to recruit more WSop`s (formerly AEop`s). Make sure you are in a position to make an informed decision on your future. Had I have been in a similar postion at recruitment (ie. not known if I was to become an ALM or AEop) then Im not sure I would have joined. AEop does not appeal to me in the slightest.

As for the Commisioning subject. No there is no commisioning in the ALM branch but as many have said you can always cross over and get a commision in another trade. And most probably be a better candidate for it having been NCA. And who knows what the future holds, I wouldnt be surprised if commisioning comes back for ALM`s.

I love my job. And so do lots of other ALM`s on different aircraft across the RAF.

Finally, Good Luck!:ok:

[R C]

Thank you for your advice folks - It would seem that Non-commissioned aircrew is the way ahead then, and Loadmaster the best of those by all accounts. Can you choose where you go, ie to herks or helis?

[c130 alm]

There are plenty of ALM`s who wanted Hercs and ended up on Heli`s and vice versa. My advice is to work hard on the Loadmaster course and then you may get what you wanted. It also depends on what vacancies there are for the aircraft. We havent had an ALM go throught the OCU for 6 months or so. If you want anymore gen then message me and I will try to help where I can.

:ok:

[WASALOADIE]

Having been an ALM on both Fixed wing and Rotary, my preference would be to go rotary which is where the majority tend to go. There is such a variety of a/c and roles, you don't just perform as a loadie but assist with nav, engineering, and much more, not forgetting of course that SAR is an option and a totally different world again. All aspects of a loadies job can be very rewarding including financially. You can always consider re-mustering to Pilot once you have got some experience, there are a number of pilots around that have gone this route and have done very well as a result of gaining experience and maturity within the NCA world.

Good luck, it's hard work getting there but well worth it in the long term.

[TAC Queen]

RC
Go for it, once you have your foot in the door and a little service experience behind you the world is your mollusc.
NCA is not a bad life if you enjoy thinking on your feet, you will work long hours and get mighty peeved at times but the camaraderie and down time make up for this. My only word of warning is that now that rear crew trades have merged (ALM, ENG, AEOP) you may find your self-doing a job you did not wish to do at the time of your application, but where the Air Force has a shortfall. (AEOP??????). But I firmly believe that whatever job you do and were ever you do it its up to you to enjoy it. I know people who complain if they had to go to the Bahamas.
Good luck

All spelling mistakes are because I can’t spell.

[Phoney Tony]

May or may not help but here is a dit I pickd up a few years ago:

Dear Potential (insert your dream here),

Obviously, through no fault of your own, your young, impressionable brain
has been poisoned by the superfluous, hyped-up, "Top Gun" media portrayal
of pilots. Unfortunately, this portrayal could not be further from the truth.

In my experience, I've found most pilots to be pompous, back-stabbing,
momma's boys with inferiority complexes, as well as being extremely
over-rated aeronautically. However, rather than dash your budding dreams
of becoming a pilot, I offer the following alternative: What you REALLY
want to aspire to is the exciting, challenging, and rewarding world of
Maritime Patrol. And this, young chap, means one thing....the venerable
workhorse, THE Nimrod! I can guarantee no fighter pilot can brag that
he has flown a mining run at 200 ft above the water, at 300 knots, while
trying to calculate a means of justifying an emergency divert to Gib
avoiding shipping, and yelling at the Tac Nav all the while eating lunch, with the engineer in the back taking a piss.

Where else is it legal to throw hazardous material out of the aircraft,
and not even give a crap what Greenpeace and the other tree huggers think!
No where else can you crawl in the back of the aircraft and take a nap
because you are so hung over that focusing your eyes takes to much effort!

And talk about exotic travel? When Nimrods go somewhere, they GO somewhere
(usually for weeks, unfortunately

As far as recommendations for your course of study, I offer these:

Take a lot of math courses. You will need all the advanced math skills
you can muster to enable you to calculate exchange rates around the world,
and when trying to split up the crew's bar tab so that the co-pilot really
believes he owes 85% of the whole thing and the NAV believing he owes the
other 20%.

Health sciences are important, too. You will need a thorough knowledge
of biology to make those educated guesses of how much longer you can drink
beer before the tremendous case of the trots catches up to you from that
meal you ate at that place that had the belly dancers in some God-forsaken
foreign country whose name you can't even pronounce!

Social studies are also beneficial. It is important for a Captain to have the cultural knowledge to be able to ascertain the exact location of the nearest titty bar in any country in the world. Then be able to convince the local authorities to release the
RADAR operator, after he offends every sensibility of the local religion and
culture.

A foreign language is helpful, but not required. You will never be able
to pronounce the names of the NAVAIDs in Italy, and it's much easier to
ignore them and go where you want to anyway. As a rule of thumb: Waiters and
bellhops in France are always called "Pierre", in Spain it's "Hey,
Pedro", in Puerto Rico it's "Juan", and in Italy, of course, it's "Mario." These
terms of address also serve in other countries interchangeably.

A study of geography is also paramount. You will need to know the basic
location of all the places you've been when you get back from your deployment and are ready to stick those little pins in that huge worldmap you've taped to your living room wall, right next to that gigantic wooden giraffe statue and beer stein collection.

Well, mateyI hope this little note inspires you. . All Nimrod guy's know that there are waaay too few women and too little alcohol .

Best of Luck

[seafuryfan]

Nice hard sell from Phoney Tony on the Nimrod :ok:

Now then, now then, now then, ledesund gentlemen - uhuhuhuh!I-am-a- rotary crewman yes indeedee. Come and sit over here on the beanbag and I-will-tell-you what a fellow crewman said to me in the crewroom yes indeed (lights cigar).

(Jimmy Saville mode ends). He said "I don't know what people are complaining about (referring to the occassional unhappy crewman) - we get paid a ****load of money and we can go flying and have a great laugh." I laughed at his concise summing up of our job but I had to agree with him. With that, I opened the rations draw, chucked him a couple of Galaxy bars and then had a chat to a pilot mate about a forthcoming tactical formation / fighter evasion / EW / + social epic in a big city he's going on in the near future. We've got a bunch of (mostly) happy, enthusiastic hectors on our squadron and life is good. I really recommend rotary. PS: It is GENERALLY a younger mans game - when you want to settle down with a family, you can do, but not for too long before you are needed back on the front line.

Good luck!

[kippermate]

RC,

I don't want to p!ss on your BBQ, but be aware that if you have failed the aptitude tests for pilot twice then its ENDEX. Thankyou and good night . No chance of pilot. But if you decide WSOp then I'll probably pick up 85% of the beer tab!!



No chance!!!!

:(

[Rubens132]

I totally agree with Phoney , and I take my chance to say hallo to the chaps of the Nimrod Display Team I met in Eastbourne (East Sussex) in August.

Obviously, the people's attention is focused on the pilots, and there's only little room for all the other people (the majority, in all the Air Forces) working around the planes.
In the Kipper Fleet and in all the multicrew planes is still alive the idea of "the crew", working together to get the job done, no matter if you are a pilot, a nav, a Flight Engineer...

While in the single seaters squadrons the pilots thing they're God themselves.
When I was young, like all the children, I wanted to be a pilot.
This turned impossible because I've 9/10 in my left eye, so I failed to enter the Academy.
Then I entered as Short Term Officer (in Italy we still have National Service), and I began my career in a Ground Defence Unit, and now I'm a Flight Operations Officer (and IntO wannabe) in a TRF Squadron, and it's good, even if I'm esposed to pilots, who thinks that they're the only ones working.

Here in Italy it's a real hell to enter, and remain, in the AF.
Now I'm studing hard to pass the exam to become Pilot Officer in permanent service (that means I've to go back, now I'm Flight Officer but as Short Term Officer I should end on march 2004).
In the Italian AF is impossible to change branch, i.e. becoming a pilot, or navigator.
You must do another competition, along with the civilian, and restart all, loosing your rank.
So, RC, you're luckier than me.
What I want to say is, whatever you'll become, it's important you like the job, because every job you do is important to keep the crates in the air!
Listen to a REMF!