121.5 Emergency Frequency Misuse

[tourbus]

Last night an easyjet pilot used the guard frequency 4 times in an hour to contact to his collegues on other easy flights about the weather .
Come on guys keep the emergency frequency for emergencies and use 123.45 or co. frequencies for the long winded weather reports

[Prince Of Darkness]

121.5 sounds more like a "fencing school", these days. Someone transmits on it, in error; someone else replies "On Guard". :O

I hear where you are coming from, tourbus.

But, at least it kept you awake on your night ALC. ;)

[Jet A1]

Be careful using 123.45 outside UK airspace -- Dutch Rescue unit use it for one and maintain a listening watch - Get their knickers in a twist if you start yapping to yer mates !

[Wycombe]

Isn't there a current NOTAM that 123.45 shouldn't be used for air-to-air comms within UK airspace!

[pete zahut]

Hi,

OK, but what about ''practice pan-practice pan etc....'' ?

My opinion is, that´s also a kind of misuse of 121.5, because everytime I hear this irritating blabla, I turn the volume of the second VHF down to nothing and often, it stays there until I have to get the ATIS on destination.
-And I know I´m not the only one!

Pete

[Knold]

It would be great if the authorities could agree on one air2air freq. It is needed!
How daft isn't it to use 123.45 as a Rescue unit freq? Bound to get others sending on it.

[gear down props forward]

Stateside, there are two frequencies available for fixed-wing air-to-air use and a third frequency if you are flying rotary wing.

122.75, 122.85: Fixed wing/private airports
123.025: Rotary wing
(from our domestic AIP: the "AIM," paragraph 4-1-11)

Often hear pilots flying formation "X flight, go 123.45," even though that frequency is not approved domestically for that use. I hardly ever hear chatter on the approved air-to-air frequency.

I suppose that when the oceanic area controls agreed upon 123.45 for the Caribbean, North Atlantic... that it brushed onto pilots as the common air-to-air frequency. Hence it is simple enough to remember.

As for you guys who fly across FIR boundaries every 15 minutes on a short sector, the frequency for air-to-air is probably buried deep inside multiple AIPs.

With 8.33 spacing, there ought to be a frequency like 136.992 that is not being used somewhere within an entire continent.

[Spitoon]

But I think you miss the point Knold, if 123.45 is not assigned for, say, air-to-air use, then it shouldn't be used for that. If the SAR service is assigned the frequency they can use it and are entitled to expect that they will not suffer interference from people abusing the frequency spectrum.

And just to confirm, it' not allowed to be used in the UK - see the NOTAM below

EGTT EGPX
OTH : FROM 03/01/17 15:17 TO PERM B0148/03
E)FREQ 123.45MHZ NOT TO BE USED AS AN AIR TO AIR COMM CHANNEL WITHIN RANGE OF ANY VHF GROUND STATION IN UK FIRS

[WestWind1950]

In Germany the official air-to-air frequency is 122,800 but the 123,45 is constantly being (mis)used. I think most pilots think it's not being used for anything so why not. I can't imagine using the official emergency 121.50 for any other communications except emergencies!! :uhoh:


http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/aktion/action-smiley-072.gif Westy

[Wiley]

I know it's been discussed on Pprune before, but I have to agree with pete zahut regarding "Practice Pan". Unbelievable that the Brits don't have a second, discrete frequency for these practice emergency calls which result in my turning 121.5 off damn near every summer Saturday or Sunday I fly into the very busy UK airspace.

They defeat the purpose of 121.5 as a guard frequency for the great majority.

Standing by for incoming....

[ADFS]

Yes Sir, the other day whilst on the afternoon ORY-FSC run, talking to Marseille, on course to AJO at FL310, we were stunned by Climb Clearances,Radar heading Vectors etc. in Italian on 121.50.I switched around to confirm it was indeed on 121.5, all I can imagine is that I had missed the initial broadcast; maybe a the other freqs. were down ???Marseille was fine.
On a normal day, nonetheless, the italians are very frequently on the 121.5 for private b.s. sessions.

[A and C]

This thread is about mis-use of 121.5 , the practice of using it for practice is not mis-use is is an officialy alowed practice.

I do however agree with you in an ideal world that this would be better done on another channel but then you run into the problems of duplicating equipment.

When ever I have had to use 121.5 for real in the UK all the "practice calls" have disapeared instantly.

[no sig]

Although not a D&D person, the other reason I suspect 121.5 practice pans are permitted in the UK is that it will 'exercise' the D&D DF system of recievers and transmitters on 121.5. D&D will also call on other stations for DF info off 121.5 transmissions if I'm not mistaken.

[RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike]

Having been fortunate enought to visit D&D, I can confirm that they certainly encourage private pilots to make Practice Pan and Training Fix calls for all the obvious reasons.

Whether they should have a dedicated frequency for this purpose, is, of course, another matter entirely... :rolleyes:

[Knold]

I know Spitoon. What I mean is that it would be great if all countries could agree on one freq. Radio signals carry across the border you know...
Since 123.45 is used by most already and the fact that it's official over the atlantic, it would seem the best choise.

It is daft to designate 123.45 as a rescue freq. They have the right to do it but it's still stupid. Like I said, radio signals don't care about borders. If I transmit close to their border I would still occupy their freq without being in their country.

[Spitoon]

Knold, you are quite right that radio signals don't care about borders. That will be why the UK NOTAM says 123.45 must not be used for A to A comms within range of a UK ground station.

I think 123.45 has been used for ground stations in the past - don't know if it is at present - but, I presume, the frequency co-ordination process has ensured that it will not normally interfere with use by Dutch SAR activities. I presume also that the process ensures that the legitimate use of the frequency in other countries is similarly protected.

If you tx on 123.45 near to the Dutch borders you'll cause interference - I'm guessing that the frequency is not assigned to A to A.

Radio signals don't care about borders and nor does (in this sense) the frequency assignment and co-ordination process. At least, it's not supposed to!

[Wiley]

'no sig', I am aware of the excellent service D&D provides in triangulating transmissions from lost aircraft, and I understand that exercising that function is good for both the controllers on the ground and trainee pilots alike.

And 'A and C', with the greatest respect, I think the current usage of 121.5 for practice pans, legal or not, is a misuse of the frequency, as it clutters up a frequency that (hopefully) everyone is listening out on.

The military use 243mhz as the 121.5 equivalent in their UHF radios, but they have a second frequency (was it 282.8??) on their emergency equipment for practice situations like the practice pans we hear so frequently every weekend during summer in the UK.

My point is that, as valuable as it may be to the D&D people and the small number of people availing themselves of the service on 121.5, it does a grave disservice to the 'big picture', for want of a better term, in that it causes people to switch off or turn down a channel that should be in place for (a) a genuine emergencies, and (b) damn near instant communication with every aircraft in British airspace.

For example, if every aircraft is listening out on 121.5, it can allow controllers to get things back on the rails in seconds when a pilot makes an incorrect frequency change in busy airspace. If the offending aircraft isn’t listening out on 121.5, the situation can cause major inconvenience to all.

For these reasons, I believe it’s time a discrete frequency was allocated for these practice pans.

As for the 'professionals' who use the frequency as a chatter / weather appreciation frequency, that’s another story altogether.

[FWA NATCA]

Wiley,

Since the airlines have started monitoring Guard (emergency frequency) we have been able to track down some pilots who have wondered off into frequency never never land. In this respect the requirement to monitor Guard has been helpful to us, but we would still like to see the ability for controllers to transmit messages to flight crews via the ACARS be developed.

The down side is that we hear way to many airlines accidentally calling their companies or calling within range on the emergency frequency.

Mike

[Captain Sand Dune]

Ooooooooh......so 121.5 and 243.0 are GUARD frequencies!!! Always thought they were USN formation primary operating freqs!:E :E :E
(Oops - better duck!):} :}

[West Coast]

Mike
There is no requirement to monitor guard. Most do if we have a third comm but not because of regulation. In addition to ATC we are required to monitor company freq unless equipped with ACARS, which is almost all of the time. Some ships only have two radios and to comply requires both of them.

[BOEINGBOY1]

Quite simply we need to keep 121.50 for pure "mayday" use - PERIOD. A second frequency for "pan calls" and slightlty less urgent assistance is therfore required!

I reckon that a great deal of "practice pan" calls are made from lost or dissorientated GA pilots on 121.50. These calls still require assistance (before they turn into a full emergency) but could be made on a sister frequency, thus leaving 121.50 open.

Of course this won't stop those who abuse the frequency untill they themselves have a mayday situation. Im sure the last thing you want to hear when you are on fire at 30w is some guy playing the harmonica or telling jokes about his mother in law!! How about a completely different frequency say 199.99 for chat over the pond? just a thought!

Retreats and waits for the slander!!!!
:ok:

[Knold]

199.99 isn't really in the band we use is it?

[BOEINGBOY1]

Fair point, but what I was getting at was to have an assigned a frequency that would be easily distinguishable as a general chat frequency, ie same or repetative numbers not currently in any use? 155.55, 123.21 etc then perhaps? although I have no way of knowing if they are in current use?

[WHBM]

Having done a Practice Pan on 121.5 during my QXC leading up to PPL, I didn't realise I was drawing the wrath of those posting above. You see, it tells you to do exactly what I was doing in the standard text book. It also tells you, as "RTFM" confirms above, that D&D like to encourage students to give it a trial to experience it. Come on, guys, you must have been through this on your own PPLs once upon a time.

What the PPL books don't tell you is that every commercial aircraft is maintaining a watch on the frequency. You are given the impression it is only you and the D&D controller.

I think this reason for Practice Pan calls is much more likely than the type "BOEINGBOY1" suggests, of a GA pilot lost but not wanting to admit it!

[BOEINGBOY1]

WHBM. I know what the text books all say and Im in no way suggesting that practice pans should not be made, far from it.
In fact I would encourage PPL students to make a "practice pan" call early in their training. I just wish there was a seperate distresss frequency that dictates a slightly less priority than a mayday call, thus leaving 121.50 open and for use in a real emergency.
As for practice Pan calls by lost/dissorientated GA pilots - I think you will find that it is more common than you think! There are very few pilots who have never been lost/dissorientated during PPL days - Its just that bravado would prevent many from ever admitting it. Its the same sort of bravado and the "im allright jack" approach to flying that prevents many pilots from requesting assitance "pan call" early, before the situation deteriates and turns into a mayday sistuation.

Im not having a go at PPL's/GA pilots at all, the vast majority of miss-use of 121.50 occurs from vastly experienced commercial pilots who should know better!!!

[Knold]

Sure Boeingboy it would be nice. But almost all freq are in use in some way. 123.45 has for a long time been the freq for small airfields and Air-Air (perhaps not officially but never the less common prectise).

The freqs used for Civila Aviation goes from 118.000 to 136.975. Below are VOR and ILS. Above is MIL.

[spudskier]

________________________________________________
Often hear pilots flying formation "X flight, go 123.45," even though that frequency is not approved domestically for that use. I hardly ever hear chatter on the approved air-to-air frequency.
________________________________________________


what are you smoking!?!?!?!? how do you not hear chatter on the air-to-air freq, especially 122.75!?!? that freq, at least in and around Ohio is one of the busiest with air-to-air chat, none of it very important sometimes downright funny, but there's always someone on it!

and I'm pretty sure 123.45 is approved, I'd have to double check but at least at the two flight schools I've worked with they list that along with 122.75 as air-to-air

as for 121.5 I know it triggers alarms in some towers when it's used in any way shape or form.

[Captain Stable]

spudskier, 123.45 is not approved within the UK.

The misuse of it, however, has got to such a state that, IMHO, ICAO might put a little pressure on the UK Radio & Telecommunications Agency to approve it and move other stations off it.

[chequesplease]

When working in the Danish sector of the N.Sea a few years back the deck clearance frequency was 123.45, you can imagine the total frustration at times! I hope they have finally sorted that little gem out.:*

[spudskier]

Captain Stable---

I'm not versed on code in the U.K.

however after doing some research for the US guidelines, 123.45 is not approved here either, only 122.75 and 122.85, however I know a lot of times if those other two frequencies are congested like they usually are, two pilots will go over to 123.45 for an easier conversation

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

Yep, the Mil have a separate frequency for P Pans/Training Fixes, or did when I was a Mil ATCO. And, yes, a separate freq in the VHF band COULD be made available I am sure. Now the cruncher!

WHO's GONNA PAY FOR IT!

Have you any idea how much it would cost to have all the separate 121.5 relay stations equipped with an addition Tx'er Rx'er, forward relays, landlines etc not to mention the integration of this kit into the D & D cell?

As it was, the civilian community would only go for autotriangulation on 121.5 in the SE of the UK because the last update was "too expensive" to encompass the whole of the UK! Hard luck if you MAYDAY on VHF below 8,500' in Scotland as the relays are few and far between and rely on manual plotting of bearings - yes scrabbling about on the floor with maps, rulers and pencils IS the order of the day.

[Pirate]

As a confirmed shorthauler, I've only had one stint at the long range stuff and I was amazed at the apparent need of so many pilots to rabbit on to each other on 123.45, usually on totally non-essential trivia. I forbade its use on my flight deck and was thus less than popular with a lot of first officers.

My point is that if the spectrum authorities see fit to allocate natter frequencies, then fair enough, but it is quite irresponsible to use a frequency because "everyone else does" and 12345 is easy numbers.

Confundemus

[Final 3 Greens]

Pete Zahut/Wiley

The use of 121.5 in the UK for practice pans and training fixes is officially approved (and encouraged) by ATC for practice and other operational reasons.

Training fixes are also a very good way of VFR flights sense checking that they are avoiding controlled airspace on murky days and there is an awful lot of controlled airspace and murky wx in the UK.

Suggest that if you wish to fly in our airspace you get used to it and stop whingeing, otherwise please exericse your license privileges elsewhere.

[Croozin]

You truly are a sad, sad individual, FTG.

[Final 3 Greens]

Croozin

Maybe so, but I am happy to comply with the rules and regs in other states when I fly there, without criticism.

Whether you and some of the other posters like it, using 121.5 for practice pans and training fixes is OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED in the UK and GA pilots are encouraged to co-operate by engaging in this practice.

I say again OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED.

It may make perfect sense to have a different frequency dedicated to this practice, BUT WE DO NOT HAVE ONE and airmanship must be adjusted accordingly.

[orionsbelt]

Agree witrh F3G

See CAP 413 The CAA RT Manual Chap 9 Sect 5
its official and whats more they want us to teach it.

I teach all my students to use Training fix and Practice PAN
if lost and not using a Radar or Control service.

3 mins on 121.5 stops controlled airspace violations, talk to Stansted ATC for many examples.

[feet dry]

Yup...

Have to agree with F3G also.

Made many Practice calls on both 121.5 & 243 when flying with the UAS.

There always seems to be alot of nonsense offered regarding RT and the use/mis use of such. Especially the use of incorrect procedure. Everyone has to learn sometime, I do recall when I started flying I would press the PTT and my mind would go blank. The solution I found was to practice calls & procedures with a willing victim (who would do likewise), which was a useful way I found to ingrain the structure of a broadcast so that it became second nature.

Making a practice pan call is merely a further extension of this....the distress/urgency call is structured so that the emergency services (or the station relaying) has the minimum amount of information in order to respond (i.e. who, where & what).

So to reiterate F3G and others - Practice pan calls are not a misuse of the frequency.

Incidentally, Boeingboy I assume you have the realvox plugin for your FS 2000 - the lifelike voice quality is atonishing.

[skeptic]

There seems to be a simply staggering lack of understanding here about the reason and legality of training fixes and practice pans.

A training fix or a practice pan on 121.5 is surely nothing more than a means of an instructor demonstrating to a stude how the D & D cell can locate you and direct you if unsure of position. Surely use of this facility is restricted to training flights and genuine emergencies only? There can be no way a pilot, qualified or not, can transmit one of these outside the basic PPL training syllabus.

To suggest that a Practice Pan might be used to ensure you are clear of controlled airspace (unless I have totally misunderstood the above post) is so stupendously unprofessional and such a virtually Criminal abuse of the system that I am astonished anyone has the gall to suggest it here.

If you're terminally lost and out of all other ideas then by all means use 121.5 to restore your plot, but have the guts, honesty and professionalism to admit to this (Pan Pan Pan G-ABCD unsure of position request fix...) and not hide cravenly behind a spurious "training fix" or "practice pan". How sick!

Bear in mind that Professional aviators are sometimes required to monitor 121.5 and spurious use of this lifesaving frequency is not only very public, but also potentially very distracting to those who use it for the correct purposes.

[feet dry]

yes skeptic....you did misunderstand the 'above post'

I was not advocating the use of a practice pan to simply fix one's position. The practice pan has a specific use (as orionsbelt posted...see the following reference CAP 413 The CAA RT Manual Chap 9 Sect 5).

Incidentally, does anyone know the number of genuine distress/urgency broadcast that have been missed as a result of practce pans etc?

[Final 3 Greens]

Skeptic

There seems to be a simply staggering lack of understanding here about the reason and legality of training fixes and practice pans.
Yes, much of it from you unfortunately.
A training fix or a practice pan on 121.5 is surely nothing more than a means of an instructor demonstrating to a stude how the D & D cell can locate you and direct you if unsure of position
Training fixes and practice pans are quite different.

Practice pans are practice emergencies, as a practice mayday does not exist.

Training fixes are the use by the D&D cell of VDF triangulation to locate the position of an aircraft.

Surely use of this facility is restricted to training flights and genuine emergencies only?
No, practice pans are either used to train pilots or controllers. So a normal GA flight can be used to give the ground people practice in running their procedures and this is one of the reasons that the CAA encourage PPLs to ask ATC units if they would like to run a practice pan exercise.

Training fixes can be used for training purposes, but are also available to all aircraft on all flights.
If you're terminally lost and out of all other ideas then by all means use 121.5 to restore your plot
You have missed the point of training fixes. In the UK being terminally lost is simply not acceptable, as there is a lot of controlled airspace; Training fixes are intended to prevent people being terminally lost and encroaching. Prevention is better than the cure.
Bear in mind that Professional aviators are sometimes required to monitor 121.5 and spurious use of this lifesaving frequency is not only very public, but also potentially very distracting to those who use it for the correct purposes

Please read and understand UK air law and ATC procedures before making statements like this - you are incorrect in implying that this is an incorrect use of the frequency in the UK.

[ft]

Every now and then, I get to fly from a field where the official frequency is 123.45.

The constant chatting on the frequency at times becomes intense enough to pose a safety hazard. You have the big iron cruising overhead talking about this and that, swarms of German ultralights and assorted spam cans coming through discussing what they’ll eat that evening, the weather and what not, formation practise flights... imagine being stepped on by all that while trying to stop an aircraft from landing on a blocked runway. I’ve seen it happen.

So please, do stay off 123.45 unless you have it in print that it is the local dating hotline! Especially those of you in the big iron, as your radios will step all over smaller radios in a large area when you’re up at FL330.

If there is no approved chat frequency, tough luck. I know that at least here, you can (theoretically) have your radio license pulled if your message is not related to flying. But the radio is not intended for chatting anyway. A good book could be a solution? Or another job with more coworkers present, if you cannot work without talking?

Cheers,
Fred

[skeptic]

Feet dry, sorry, I did not mean your post! Perhaps I should have said "one of the above posts". Apologies for the confusion.

F3G. More confusion. You got out of bed on the wrong side today?
Thanks for your homily, I found it rather amusing. You've got the wrong end of the stick all the way through. Perhaps if you read my post more carefully?

OK, you can be asked to do a training fix or pp, but you can't initiate one outside the training environment. Thats what I call really splitting hairs, but if it amuses you...

[Final 3 Greens]

Skeptic

You said

"There can be no way a pilot, qualified or not, can transmit one of these outside the basic PPL training syllabus.

Please see below:

CAP 413 (2002) 7.1

Pilots may simulate emergency incidents (BUT NOT THE STATE OF DISTRESS)on 121.50 MHz to enable them to gain experience of the ATC service provided.Before calling,pilots should listen out on the emergency frequency to ensure that no actual or practice incident is already in progress.Practice calls need not disrupt a planned flight or involve additional expense in fuel or time since the pilot can request ‘diversion ’ to his intended destination or cancel the exercise when necessary.

CAP413 8.1

"Pilots who do not wish to carry out a practice emergency but only wish to confirm their position may request a ‘Training Fix ’on 121.5 MHz.This ‘Training Fix ’is secondary in importance to actual emergency calls but takes precedence over practice emergency calls in the event of simultaneous incidents.

Please show me where your assertion is verified. No mention of PPL syllabus etc, nor of instructors.

Perhaps you should re-read your posting.

[Stop Stop Stop]

What is common practice in my company, if aircraft A needs to talk to aircraft B, it is done on one of the the company frequencies.

Obviously, it is not used for chatting about what happened on Eastenders, but you might want to know whether your sunglasses are on board another aircraft or something! :O

[A/P Disc]

ft

123.45 is an official frequency for over the Atlantic
(see Jeppesen 1/2 AT(H/L),Aerad etc) It used to be
131.80 but was changed about a year or so ago. This is
an official Air to Air freq. for North Atlantic use just like 126.9
over Africa etc. Very strange but true.

I agree that the intention of this freq. is not for exchange
of the latest NFL scores as tends to happen very often
by the American carriers (and also European ones) but many
pilots use it for turbulence reports to other airplanes and
relays if the HF doesn't work (again).

:rolleyes:

[ft]

A/P,
note the word "local". The field using 123.45 is not located in the N. Atlantic... I would have noticed that on landing! ;)

(Although it does get rather sploshy when there's rain)

Cheers,
Fred

[A/P Disc]

ft

point taken. I'm just trying to explain that sometimes
123.45 is a valid freq. which flying at 370000' might interfere with local aerodromes which also use it. I recently saw a Notam
in Canada urging local airplaines not to use 123.45 because
it can be received at the west coast of England/Ireland!
They then must be flying at FL800 but there you go.

Rgds

[410]

Final 3 Greens, I can't see anything in what Wiley and the others said that disputes the legality or usefulness of the current procedures using 121.5 for practice pans.

I'm assuming that Croozin wasn't commenting on that either, but more likely on your extraordinarily offensive tone in telling those 'unlucky' enough not to born with a British passport to take their bats and balls and go play elsewhere if they don’t like things exactly as they are. (I’ve just watched ‘Piece of Cake’ and your attitude reminds me of the way the RAF pilots and hierarchy refused to listen to the American who had flown against the Germans in Spain ‘because that was Spain, and things are different here’.) Take a look at what you said and how you said it and ask yourself whether or not he might have had a point. I certainly thought your comments were offensive.

I know that British pilots find fault and suggest improvements in ATC procedures elsewhere in the world – and rather pointedly at times. (The frequently deplorable standard of HF comms in India immediately comes to mind.) That's their right as users, and sometimes these criticisms get things changed for the better. If you accept that, what in world is wrong with a non-British pilot suggesting that in his or her opinion, improvements could be made to the excellent Brit system?

As useful as the service might be to light aircraft pilots in the UK, like the others before me on this thread, I too find it distracting when I'm in the very busy Heathrow terminal area and someone starts 'practice pan-ing'. Like them, I switch 121.5 off or turn it down when this happens - which I accept is not desirable, as I’m depriving myself and ATC of an excellent, quickly resolved fixup should one of us big fellers screw up a frequency change, as can and does happen.

I accept that a discrete frequency for practice calls would not be easily (or cheaply) accommodated, but that doesn't make the calls for one any less sensible. It's surely indisputable that it would be better for everyone concerned if there was a discrete frequency for practice pan calls – unless someone out there gets a vicarious thrill from making these practice calls on the ‘real’ emergency frequency.

[Final 3 Greens]

410

I agree that there are improvements that could be made to the UK system and can fully understand why airline pilots get irritated by practiced pans and training fixes, but the comments quite clearly opined that this was a misuse of the frequency.

The use of 121.5 in the UK is regulated by the CAA and there is a great difference between it’s unsanctioned use and sanctioned use, the latter which is obviously not a misuse, but more realistically an uncomfortable sharing (from an airline pilot point of view.) I have no problems with anyone suggesting improvements to our system, but please don't say that that we are misusing it, because that's the CAA's decision.

The comments made were:

Pete Zahut

“OK, but what about ''practice pan-practice pan etc....'”?

My opinion is, that´s also a kind of misuse of 121.5”

Wiley

“I know it's been discussed on Pprune before, but I have to agree with pete zahut regarding "Practice Pan".”

Wiley

“And 'A and C', with the greatest respect, I think the current usage of 121.5 for practice pans, legal or not, is a misuse of the frequency.”

Pretty clear methinks. Now I find some of the airport security measures in the US pretty irritating, but when the TSA person asks me to comply, I respect the laws of the land and do so with good grace.

So you are quite entitled to find my tone offensive, but my message to people complaining about the system here is that’s the way it is and if you don’t like it, you can fly elsewhere. Blunt yes, but nothing to do with the passport you hold, since the system works the same way for everyone here.

Now if you do a quick search on the ATC forum, you will find that I defended the US ATC system robustly against some derogatory comments recently, so I can assure you that I am not being jingoistic here – if you wish to fly in someone else’s airspace, you have to accept that there rules apply and adjust your airmanship to the environment. I cannot control the expressed views of other British pilots as you will appreciate.

As to you comments about ‘Piece of Cake’, I live too near to the graves of thousands of brave men from the British and Commonwealth air forces and the USAAF who gave their lives so that I can live mine in the way I do to even express an opinion on that piece of inspired thinking.