Virgin Atlantic soon to Australia

[Wirraway]

Wed "Courier Mail"

Virgin Atlantic signals landing
By Maria Hawthorne
15jul03

VIRGIN Atlantic could be flying daily to Australia by Christmas, Virgin boss Sir Richard Branson said today.

Sir Richard said he would appoint a team to work on developing an Australian route and hoped to have the new service up and running by the end of the year.

And he said the inaugural flight could be on the Concorde if he wins his battle with British Airways over control of the ageing supersonic aircraft fleet, which is due to be retired this October.

Sir Richard was speaking after a meeting in London with Australian Tourism Minister Joe Hockey.

"The minister on his trip to England has been twisting our arms trying to get us to fly Virgin Atlantic to Australia as soon as possible," Sir Richard said.

"As a result, we're going to have a team of people working on it. Hopefully, if we can get everything sorted out, maybe by Christmas or early in the New Year we'll see Virgin Atlantic flying either to Sydney, Brisbane or Melbourne, or even two or three of those cities.

"We'll get to work on it."

Sir Richard said the kangaroo route needed some competition to shake up British Airways and Qantas, which he said were operating a duopoly.

"They own shares in each other, you'll find that they have identical fares, and the price of tickets does affect tourism," he said.

"If we can get in there and offer a better-quality product with lower fares, hopefully more people will go to Australia and fly Virgin Blue."

Virgin Blue began flying in 2000 and has between 25 and 30 per cent of the Australian domestic market.

Sir Richard will discuss his plans with John Howard when the Australian Prime Minister visits London later this year.

Mr Hockey said the decision was a huge step forward for the Australian tourism industry.

"There's only two European airlines flying into Australia - Lauda Air and BA - so the more European airlines that we can get into Australia the better," Mr Hockey said.

Virgin Atlantic, Europe's second largest long-haul airline, has a fleet of 25 planes with another 15 on order.

It carries 4.1 million passengers a year to 22 destinations and is the 25th largest airline in the world.

Singapore Airlines owns 49 per cent of the airline, which was set up 18 years ago.

Sir Richard said Virgin was still working on prising the Concordes away from British Airlines, which has so far refused to sell the jets despite announcing plans to take them out of service.

He said the British-designed planes still had 25 years' flying life left in them and would be a fantastic flagship for Britain.

"We're doing everything we can to embarrass BA into handing them over to us," he said.

"If we succeed, almost definitely the inaugural flight (to Australia), if nothing else, will be on a Concorde."

===========================================

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Singapore Airlines, Malaysian Airlines, Emirates, Thai, plus numerous others would be surprised to learn that QF and BA operate a cosy duopoly on the Kangaroo Route, but then never let the facts get in the way of some "Battler-striking-a-blow-for-the-downtrodden-masses" publicity.

Virgin operating the Concorde??? Give me a break.

:yuk:

[gissmonkey]

The_Cutest_of_Borg



give you a break about what??? if BA can fly em, why not Virgin?:yuk: to u 2!

[Buster Hyman]

No chance at all! If you knew the history of the aircraft gissmonkey, you'd know why it wont come to Oz, even if he did get them.

Virgin Atlantic, Europe's second largest long-haul airline

More rubbish! Who are they second behind? BA, KLM, Lufthansa, Air France????:rolleyes:

[RaTa]

Virgin Atlantic is Europe's second largest long haul airline, how about Lufthansa, Air France and KLM??????
Sounds more like look at us are'nt we great bla bla bla bla.:yuk:
As Borg says what about Emirates, SIA, MAS and even CX for competition!!!!

[Al E. Vator]

Once apon a time there was Ansett and Qantas and all the armchair experts gave Virgin Blue a few months, if they were to even get airborne at all.

"Give me a break" opined the experts, with lots of smug little :yuk: icons.

Somebody at the time also suggested he would run down the Sydney Ansett Terminal naked if little Impulse were even going to operate just 1 jet sector, having been previously a 1900 operator etc (did that person do that run in the end?)

So could I suggest those who post their pearls of wisdom look at what has already gone before writing.

The old order is effectively over, nothing in the industry is cast in stone and anything is possible. Posting dismissive items on Prune may make the writer feel good but will not alter the course of events one bit.

Virgin are unlikely to score the Concorde and as Branson suggested even if they could, it would only do the INNAUGURAL flight to Oz for publicity - not regular flights.

Anyway, bring on the change. The last few years have been interesting and the next few I suggest will be even more eventful.

[Buster Hyman]

:rolleyes: ...another convert to the Church of Branson!

[Sheep Guts]

Go VB go you good thing! Good news for Staff Travel now eh!

Oh and if they give each traveller a greater than one 20kg piece restriction and less than 30 dollars a kilo excess baggage penalty. I know who Ill fly with. BA and QF can keep their Bangkok Sardine Service to London :yuk:By the way, thats a hell flight too guys, not recommended.


Regards
Sheep

P.S. Im a new disciple Buster:ok:

[gissmonkey]

Buster Hyman

If you knew the history of the aircraft gissmonkey, you'd know why it wont come to Oz, even if he did get them.

I was saying that you don't have to work for BA or AF to be able to fly it. Get a grip.....

[Buster Hyman]

TCOB said;
Virgin operating the Concorde??? Give me a break.

gissmonkey replied;
give you a break about what??? if BA can fly em, why not Virgin? to u 2!

Try to be specific in your response rather than change the whole tone of your post afterwards. Get a life...:rolleyes:

Good for you Sheep Guts, hope you get what you want from them!:ok:

[gissmonkey]

Buster Hyman

I can't see how my tone changed? Too many times I hear, experience levels are dropping, you cant fly that until you have X amount of hours bla bla bla. It all comes down to the training. So if virgin do get them and train their crews right, of course they will be able to operate them. A good example is the RAAF, they put guys with 200hours in F111s.

[Buster Hyman]

Okay, once more with feeling.;)

The Concorde was basically doomed when a certain country that had a large aircraft manufacturing base "created" a sonic boom smear campaign that made over flown countries ban the Concorde from their airspace. BA did operate the Concorde to Oz, but was banned from doing so because of this. The same bans are in place & VS would have exactly the same problems today, regardless of whether they change Airbus' mind re supporting the aircraft.

What a great trip it would be to fly Concorde to LHR etc from Oz, sadly only a few had this pleasure.

As for actually operating/crewing them, all it takes is training & yes, IF VS gets them they can learn to fly them, but it won't be out here. Don't get me wrong though, I'd love to see her lining up on YMML 27 no matter what colours she's in.

[SkyScanner]

Can someone correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the whole reason that Qantas and other airlines do not fly through HK on their way to Europe/ UK is because the HK CAA does not permit them too! Thus if Virgin Atlantic gets the go ahead, surely this will open the gates for numerous other airlines to do likewise..

[Eastwest Loco]

Ooooh Mamma - am I gonna get reamed over this post.

To this little black duck, having Concorde operated by Virgin is akin to Amtrak runing the Flying Scotsman. Something just does not gel.

It is mission impossible also due the stress it would cause in Middle Eastern countries where it would cause a daily uprising triggered by the assumption of renewed bombing.

Not to mention Australia where King Billy Coke Bottle and the Gotmehandout Tribe would suddenly develop the concept of Sacred Airspace and want compensation for the boom upsetting the VB Spirit.

VS has been making noises about coming to Oz for ages, and apparently has been unable to gain a license to do so, settling with code share with MH.

The choices on the Kangaroo route are not just QF BA and OS as mentioned, and OS is 2 stop. TG SQ and MH are one stop as are KE OZ CX SA JL UA AA (codeshare via AP) and EK very shortly 1 stop with 777-500s.

I have had clients fly VS and they all espoused the excellent service, but i think we need to read between the lines in old cold eyes' press releases. The airline however appears to be absolute first rate.

The KR is saturated at he moment, and any new player is going to face lower yield. I hope Branson does not wish to embrace a sardine theory, and lower the tone of an excellent carrier.

Bottom line - RB - leave the classic airliner to the classic Airlines.

Do what you do well and continue to break new ground, but do not step into the shoes of pioneering airlines.

They will not fit - on the large side.

Best all

EWL

[Ralph the Bong]

BA's best response would be "Sir Richard, ya want the Concord?? HERE, HAVE 'EM"..:p :p :p

[rockarpee]

Al E .Vator says bring on the change. Wot you mean like BA Singair, MAS, Royal B, ANZ, Thai, Cathay, United, Air Pac, Emirates, South African, China, etc...etc...etc... yeh real monopoly breaking stuff!!!:uhoh:

[Wirraway]

Reuters Wednesday July 16, 10:08 PM AEST

UK's Branson plans budget U.S. airline
By Daniel Morrissey

LONDON, July 16 (Reuters) - Virgin Group Chairman Richard Branson announced plans on Wednesday to set up a "quality low-cost" airline in the United States by the end of June 2004 to rival JetBlue and Southwest .

"We are planning to get in there and make sure there is a third, very powerful low-cost airline in America," Branson said. Virgin would own under 50 percent to meet U.S. aviation laws.

Speaking at the unveiling of a new premium class service for transatlantic carrier Virgin Atlantic, Branson said the London-U.S. market for first-class and business-class passengers was improving after the worst downturn in years.

"The premium traffic is coming back. SARS is behind us, the recession is beginning to be behind us and there is a lot more activity out there," he said. "The Gulf War is also behind us."

Branson said Virgin Atlantic's new service, which offers the industry's most spacious beds, could attract up to five percent of business-class passengers and 12 percent of first-class travellers from rival British Airways .

The new service will be launched after the summer, coinciding with BA's withdrawal of its fleet of Concorde supersonic luxury aircraft.

Branson, whose interests span music, trains and telecoms, said the planned U.S. budget airline would be set up along the same lines as Virgin's Australian discount airline Virgin Blue.

"We will start fairly modestly as we did in Australia, maybe 10 or 15 planes," said Branson, adding that a number of institutional partners would be involved in the venture.

Under U.S. law foreign companies are only allowed to own 25 percent of voting rights in a U.S. airline and an economic interest of up to 49 percent. However, last month U.S. Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta urged Congress to raise foreign ownership limits to 49 percent of voting stock.

Branson said he hoped that the United States would permit clauses within the U.S. airline's structure that would result in Virgin taking control should ownership laws be relaxed. By owning less than 50 percent of the company, Virgin would depart from its strategy of controlling the firms it invests in and those that use the Virgin brand.

The planned airline would be started from scratch, Branson said. "Our philosophy is that (is) the best way to build a company." He added that no decision had been made yet on whether the airline would use Boeing or Airbus aircraft.

==========================================

[Eastwest Loco]

Sheeps

EK will start (NOV I think) DXB SYD and MEL nonstops and extend their services to AKL.

I do apologise - the equipment is A340-500 not B777. Just checked availability in Sabre.

That will make the Tasman much less viable for the incumbents and DJ as they are offering a top-up fare of AUD379.00 rtn plus taxes.

Now THERE are true deep pockets!!

Best all

EWL

[Sheep Guts]

Well really we need to welcome evrey carrier that comes into Australia. Europe and the USA are the 2 biggest tourism MARKETS. and we happen to be the furthest away.

Where I am in the Carrbean, they have captured a percentage of the US market, but really the only thing encouraging US Tourists down here are:

1. Short distance
2. all inclusive resorts ( thats right everything inclusive Booze and food the lot)


So thats what Australia is up against. Really if Australia was closer we would kick arse and have a Greater proportion of US Travellers, maybe even as many as Europe gets.

We need faster Jets to Oz. Concorde is old, but something new needs to come along.

If we had Faster jets the Yanks would come in drobes.

Oh and they love us aussies. They cant get enough of Steve Irwin. The guys I work with want me to bring his books and vidoes all the time.


regards
Sheep

[Winstun]

Oh and they love us aussies. Give me a bone!! Another Aussie wet dream......:rolleyes: You mean they love the illusion. Do you inform them your average lovable Aussie is obese, mortgaged in an urban jungle, watches box nightly with scrubber and ankle biters, gloats over greedy real estate gains, and generally hates Americans (or pretends to?) :hmm: Like I cant get enough of Pamela Anderson...I want those mags and books all the time. ;) You sure reckon you know a lot (it shows)for someone who aspires to fly a Otter in Yemen...:ooh:

[the looka]

You trying to make some friends winstun?

[Meeb]

Eastwest Loco, Virgin Atlantic has held a route licence on the Kangaroo route for a number of years now. The reason they have code shared is because they have failed to get approval to operate through Honkers. It seems to be a misrepresentation within Australia but is quite well known here in the UK.

I have lived in the states and Aussies are liked by the yanks... but they like the Scots more... ;)

[Wirraway]

Thurs "Melbourne Age"

Confusion over Virgin Atlantic plans
July 17 2003
By Scott Rochfort
Sydney

Sir Richard Branson's latest extravagant pledge, this time to start Virgin Atlantic flights to Australia by Christmas, appeared to leave some aviation analysts baffled yesterday, and even some of his own staff bemused.

After meeting with Tourism Minister Joe Hockey in London, Sir Richard said that "maybe by Christmas or early in the New Year we'll see Virgin Atlantic flying either to Sydney, Brisbane or Melbourne, or even two or three of those cities".

In a further challenge to Qantas's dominance of the kangaroo route, Sir Richard said that if the airline was successful in its attempts to buy British Airlines' fleet of soon-to-be-retired Concordes, it will fly one of the supersonic jets on Virgin Atlantic's inaugural flight to Australia.

But it appears Virgin Atlantic's media department were left out of the loop. Said one media officer: "That was Virgin Blue.

"In relation to Australia at the moment there's no firm plans (for Virgin Atlantic)," she said.

But Virgin Blue, which operates as a separate business entity to Virgin Atlantic in the domestic aviation industry, said it was not part of Sir Richard's grand plans on the kangaroo route.

Adding more confusion to Sir Richard's comments, Mr Hockey said Virgin Atlantic would fly to Australia via Hong Kong, even though there are no clear indications that the Hong Kong Government will grant the airline "beyond rights" to fly on to Australia.

While the Hong Kong Government recently granted Air New Zealand rights to fly to New Zealand, some analysts remained sceptical Virgin Atlantic will be given rights to extend its current daily London-to-Hong Kong service to Australia.

"This is something that Branson mentions every six to 12 months so it's nothing completely new," said one analyst.

Some analysts said Virgin Blue could be more successful in its attempts to gain permission to fly to Singapore.

Qantas flies 21 services a week to London from Australia. If Virgin Atlantic started, one analyst said the impact would be marginal on Qantas, which already has 38 competitors on the kangaroo route.

========================================
Thurs "Sydney Morning Herald"

Flying a kite with supersonic vision
By Elizabeth Knight
July 17 2003

I guess it's not surprising that when a hyped Australian tourism minister, Joe Hockey, and the undisputed prince of self-marketing, Richard Branson, get in a room together, reality is the first casualty.

Aviation insiders reckon Branson has been talking about bringing the Virgin Atlantic service to Australia for years but nothing has ever come of it.

The fact that Branson is now talking about the inaugural flight being made by the Concorde just adds another promotional element to the statements he made in London yesterday.

According to Branson, the minister has been twisting his arm trying to get Virgin Atlantic to fly to Australia as soon as possible.

He went on to say that he would put a team of people onto it, and if everything could be sorted out then Virgin Atlantic could be flying either to Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane, or two of these, by Christmas.

But it's a fair bet that Geoff Dixon over at Qantas won't be too worried.

In the first instance Virgin Atlantic would need to be able to extend its terminating rights beyond Hong Kong. In trying to do so it will come up against British Airways, which will do everything in its power to ensure that Virgin Atlantic cannot extent its franchise beyond Hong Kong.

Of course the decision will rest with the UK Government, but the most interested of "interested parties" to be consulted during the process would be BA. And as we know from our local experience, national carriers seem to have a disproportionate influence over government.

The second major obstacle in this equation must be Singapore Airlines, which owns 49 per cent of Virgin Atlantic and has certain rights over the use of the Virgin Atlantic brand.

Singapore paid more than most had expected it for this stake, but in doing so it acquired significant rights over the use of the brand - which allow it more control than the shareholding suggests.

For Virgin Atlantic to fly the Kangaroo route, the approval of Singapore Airlines would be required.

Singapore was remaining pretty mum on the whole notion yesterday and clearly wouldn't want to be seen as being the party that inhibits competition.

It would also be particularly mindful of the fact that there is a possibility that it will want to enter the Australian domestic market down the track and still has a team working on that plan.

Joe Hockey points to the fact that only two European airlines are flying the Kangaroo route.

The route, nonetheless, is well serviced by not only BA and Lauda Air but also by Qantas and a bunch of Asian carriers, plus some others like Emirates.

One of those carriers is Singapore, which must see Virgin Atlantic as not only a competitive threat but worse - one that would cannibalise Kangaroo trade.

For Virgin Atlantic, being able to feed into the Virgin Blue domestic network in Australia would represent an opportunity.

However it would encounter the disadvantage of not being able to offer anything more than a single class service, and that would discourage business travellers.

Feeding international travellers - especially those coming off BA and Qantas - into the local Qantas network offers a great competitive advantage.

John Howard is the next Australian politician scheduled to line up for a meeting with the great Branson later this year.

Howard seems less fixated than his deputy, John Anderson, on looking after the interests of Qantas.

But this deal will ultimately come down to a decision by the UK Government and then a decision by Singapore Airlines.

Qantas will not want any additional competition on this route - the last thing it needs is additional capacity that could affect its loads and price competition that will affect its margins.

Qantas must now be viewing its chances of getting its quasi-merger deal with Air New Zealand through as pretty slim.

The last thing it wants is any sign of Branson trampling on its international turf as well as its domestic turf.

For his part, Branson also sees this as an opportunity to further expand his Virgin brand.

Unfortunately for Branson, the chances of the lucky few chosen for the inaugural flight to Australia being able to fly the Concorde are not looking good.

Right now the £1 billion ($2.4 billion) he is offering BA to buy the aircraft has been flatly rejected. Indeed, BA is looking to pension off the supersonic planes by October.

Branson said these planes still had 25 years of flying life left in them. While the ballooning thrill seeker might get a kick out of his extreme sports, this columnist, for one, won't be stepping on board anything that's 27 years old.

===========================================

[Al E. Vator]

....well just shows how stupid that columnist is! Flying in the US she would happily sit on say a Northwest DC9 which was built in the mid-sixties - which makes it nearly 40 years old. She wouldn't know the difference.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Giss et al , my "Give me a break" remark was not aimed at casting aspersions on the ability of VA crews to fly the Concorde, but rather the other aspects of such a transaction that I thought were self evident.

1. BA will sell Branson the Concorde over it dead corporate body.

Do I have to go into the reasons why? It will save me a lot of typing..

2. Should BA somehow be "shamed" into selling Branson the Concorde, VA will find that introducing a type such as this into their fleet will present somewhat more operational problems than a 737-NG.

Again, do I have to go into the reasons why?

and here is my pukey icon again.... I give it fearlessly!!

:yuk:

editing for spelling

[Sheep Guts]

Winstun,
I know your just trying to get a wind up onme....

But do you fly at all?

If you do, go and test yourself out on a High Cliff somewhere for us all!!!!:p

Do you inform them your average lovable Aussie is obese, mortgaged in an urban jungle, watches box nightly with scrubber and ankle biters, gloats over greedy real estate gains, and generally hates Americans (or pretends to?)

Is this a biographical account of yourself Winstun? :E

Please tell me about youself because, quite honestly I couldnt be bothered doing a search on you. :rolleyes:

Anomnynity is beautufull!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111:E :E :ok:

[Buster Hyman]

Don't get him started! Once he's got his "other" hand on the keyboard who knows what he'll come up with, from that padded cell of his!!!!!:rolleyes:

[Eastwest Loco]

Meeb - One wonders why VS would choose to operate over HKG which is not a tradional port of call on the Kangaroo route.

Extra flying time and a recalcitrant Government would make it more appealing to operate via SIN or BKK.

The SIN authorities seem very open to 5th freedom rights as this generates the stopover traffic that keeps the dollars coming in.

BKK also fosters many 5th freedom carriers, and there is of course KUL.

Via HKG also increases the flying time as the angle closes considerably making the run less appealing.

Maybe it is something to drive more publicity - tilt against a windmill even though you do not want to conquer it.

Free advertising through editorial is an RB specialty and very clever too.

If VS has KR clearance, then it would have surely lit the wick in the engine via one of he other ports by now if serious.

Best all

EWL

[Buster Hyman]

I'm happy to be corrected about this, but I believe the HKG route is actually the quickest to LHR.....IF you have overfly rights for China, like CX has!

[Eastwest Loco]

Hi Buster

Just lit up Sabre and checked - actual flight times are as follows - using BKK as a transit point block time is 21hr 30 mins. Using HKG block time is 22hr 00mins.

I must admit the HKG route is far quicker than I perceived.

Best regards

EWL

ps: Flight times only - ground time not taken into account anc CX used for via HKG route.

[AA717driver]

That's exactly why we love aussies--they're just like us! For a minute, I thought you were describing my neighbors in Indiana:p .TC

[MarkD]

great circle distance LHR-SYD (all dist. km)

via SIN: 17176
via BKK: 17090
via HKG: 17019
direct: 17016

obviously does not include jetstream routes etc.

[Wirraway]

Fri "The Australian"

Branson tips Virgin float
By Geoff Easdown
July 18, 2003

VIRGIN Group founder Sir Richard Branson says he's "on track" to sell a 30 per cent stake in Australian low-cost carrier Virgin Blue to the public in October or November.

Virgin Group and Patrick Corp, which each own half of the company, will sell 5 per cent of their stakes in Virgin Blue.

Sir Richard said he expected an independent ruling on July 21 on the issuing of new shares, worth 20 per cent of the airline, after Virgin and Patrick failed to reach an agreement.

"It's still on track for an October, November float," Sir Richard said in London yesterday. "We went to adjudication on the 20 per cent of new money and I think the adjudicator will rule next Monday."


Meanwhile, Qantas poured cold water last night on Sir Richard's plan to begin flights from London to Australia.

The Australian flag carrier's chief financial officer Peter Gregg suggested that it was unlikely Sir Richard's Virgin Atlantic would obtain "beyond rights" from the Hong Kong Government.

Virgin Atlantic operates a daily flight between London and Hong Kong that must terminate in the territory under a government-to-government agreement between the Chinese territory and Britain.

Mr Gregg said he would be "very interested" if Virgin Atlantic managed to obtain rights to fly on to Australia.

"Despite trying for many years, Qantas was not able to obtain rights to fly between the UK and Australia via Hong Kong, he said.

A licence to take London originated flights beyond Hong Kong – known in aviation circles as "beyond or fifth freedom rights" – would have to be obtained by Virgin Atlantic if it was to pick up passengers in Hong Kong and fly to Australia via the territory.

========================================

[Taildragger67]

Could Virgin GROUP effectively get around the 5th freedom issue by having a name change in HK? That is, VS operate the a/c in their own name LHR - HKG, then effectively ACMI charter the whole thing to DJ for the run south...

[DJ737]

Hi there

Maybe VS doesn't heed to fly to AUS via Asia, Non-stop LAX-BNE sounds like a good one, this routing would cheer up QF no end:E

Cheers
DJ737

[Lead Balloon]

Winstun: I can only but agree with your assessment of the average punter.

But does your one inciteful jibe at the pox of humanity make the rest of your argument correct?

Hell! I hope not...

I heard on Radio National, something about Branson wanting to purchase the Concordes from BA to do the Kangaroo run. Now that would have me switching my European travel in a flash. To cut that commute by half would be fantastic. Better yet the SYD to LAX.

Question for PPruners, what's the range, cost per hour and capacity of the concorde? What would the seats sell for I wonder? Or is it just more clever marketing from Virgin.

[Lurk R]

Lead Balloon - cutting the time in half assumes most of the trip is supersonic - which it wouldn't be.

If HK didn't allow 5th Freedom rights for transitting Hong Kong and Singers was looked at as an alternative, how would SQ view their half-brother also flying the LHR-SIN-OZ route?

[Buster Hyman]

was unlikely Sir Richard's Virgin Atlantic would obtain "beyond rights" from the Hong Kong Government.

Said with the confidence of an airline with a Transport Minister on their payroll!:hmm:

[Sheep Guts]

DJ737

That would shake it all up. And also I bet First Class and Business on QF would be empty. Theyd have to make all the ships Cattle class all the way. Just repeating my opiion of the Kangaroo route to London.

The flight as an economy Passenger is lousy, no leg room especially on BA and the QF 20 kg ONE PIECE/PERSON allowance is stupid as is the BA 23kg allowance. Now why is that different.

ALSO the $30.00 aud / Kilo over 20 kg excess is insanity.

I got stung badly on that and they didnt even give a little.

Its alot different to the US 2 PIECES AT 32KG allowance.


Man I hope Virg offers more baggage options than QF and BA.


Regards
Sheep
:uhoh: :{

[404 Titan]

As has been said before, for Virgin Atlantic to fly to Australia via Hong Kong and pick up passengers they would have to obtain Fifth Freedom Rights. There have been numerous discussions between the Hong Kong Government and the British Government on Fifth Freedom Rights over the last six years and all have failed. It appears that the British government is very reluctant to allow any Hong Kong carrier Fifth Freedom Rights to pick up pax in the UK and fly the Atlantic to North America.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Sheep Guts. You seem to have no idea of the operating economics of a Concorde. Nor much idea of the demographic that ply that route.

Give one of Winstun's average aussies the choice of 2k for a ticket and a 20 hour trip, or a 10 hour trip at 15K and see how far you get in filling up your shiny jet

Also , it may have escaped your notice that they aren't making them any more. Therefore seven Concordes on the KR is a pipe dream. They could run double the number of jumbos for less and carry 20 times the passengers.

Especially if Branson is serious about offering a billion sterling for seven airframes? He has got to be joking??? Either that or making a high publicity bluff... maybe BA should call him on that... it would be sure to send him broke.

[Taildragger67]

To operate Concorde Lon-Syd via the US would certainly save some time, but are there 100 punters each day, each way, willing to pay the hefty fares needed and given the time involved for a round trip you'd probably need more than the seven airframes BA have. AF would be unlikely to want to pass any on.

You'd have quite a few stops - with the post-Gonesse mods, AF had to take 4 seats out to make the thing do JFK-CDG, so you'd be looking at LHR-JFK-LAX-HNL-NAN-SYD. Sure, lots over water so nice & fast, but with all the stops & less direct routing, would there be much time saved over LHR-LAX-SYD or LHR-HKG-SYD? Also, aging the airframe lots quicker, heavier maintenance, etc - the cost side starts to mount heavily.

Operating via Asia isn't really an option as BA & SQ found out - the Malaysians weren't too keen on having Conc in their airspace and again, multiple stops. You'd probably have to run something like LHR-DXB-SIN-SYD of SIN-BNE-SYD - quite a bit over populated areas so on (say) you're flying an expensive aircraft to run, with a small pax load, no freight - when you could have three times as many bums on seats and a full load of freight in a 767 and do that four times a day.

[sirjfp]

Whoa up there chaps!

Branson only said he would POSSIBLY use the Concorde for the inaugural flight. As he is a master at self promotion and using the media to provide squillions worth of free publicity, I think it would be true to form. As a regular occurance- no chance

[Sheep Guts]

Yeah Guys


Borg , You must know Branson now , he likes to windup everyone with rumours.

I know perfectly well the concorde thing is a joke .

The Last Concorde youll see will be in a Stick outside and Air Base or Airport. That one outside Heathrow even though a Model, can be made full size now

But hey we are just trying ti wind you QF punters up:ok:

Branson will more than likely operate 744 or A340-600 on the route. And have, I hope a more decent seating arrangement, than QF and BA who tend to operate the route like the London Underground, packem stackem and rackem .

The baggage issue is the first thing that needs attending to.:}

QF and BA are bloody thieves, see my previos post.

Interesting now that these new laws in Europe on avaition, are in rule. Just passed by the European parlement

1.If you overbook and off load a revenue passenger you can get fined.

2.If you delay passengers for economic reasons, you can be fined

3. Failing to reimburse passengers for lost, stolen or damaged baggage you may be fined as an operator.

Interesting isnt it? Wouldnt work in the Carribean ar the Americas, or Oz for that matter everyone over books.


Food for thought

Sheep

[permFO]

The loudest objections about the new European laws were coming from the the low cost airlines like easyjet and Ryanair who only overbook "a little bit".