LBA short of ramp space?

[HOODED]

I am hearing rumors that with the advent of Jet2 EGNM is running out of ramp space at peak periods. Having seen an A310 parked on the 14 loop on a very busy diversion day this doesn't surprise me, but it is being mooted that they may close 27/09 to create the extra stands required. Given that 32/14 would then be the only runway, this must create a problem for the smaller operators on the strong SW days that are not uncommon up there.
Anyone able to shed some light on this?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its dificult to soar with eagles when you work for turkeys!

[javelin]

They have been trying to close 27/09 for ages, another nail in the coffin of GA. Instead of closing a good runway, get the old Sothern taxiway back, give everyone better access to 32, stop playing at 'big airport' and get on with the business of running what could be a great regional airport........................Or wait until Finningley opens and lose most of your trade.

[Get me some traffic]

Plenty of space at LBA's no1 diversion, Teesside!
Just down the road, sooper Wx record and friendly staff.
Check us out sometime.

[HOODED]

Javelin, my concern is the closure of 27/09! I am all for LBA trying to play the big airport but not at the expense of GA and regional operators. 27/09 may only be 3600ft long but with the strong winds often experienced up on t' hill it is often invaluble. Surely now Multiflight have built a new apron/hangar complex on the south side to attract the buisness trafic the main apron could be extended further east to level with the start of 27. This would create another 2/3 stands and would not require closure of 27/09. If all non airline trafic were to go south side surely this would be enough in the near/medium term. If further were neccessary then maybe moving the fuel farm and extending NW could give another 4/5 stands again without closing 27/09. Still it must be a nice problem for the airport management to have, lets just hope they consider their options carefully especially with Finningley looming!

[pitchtrim]

stand space, closure of runways least of the problems....

Its about time they re invested all the profit from the boom in traffic into re surfacing 14/32. Its diabolical. When its anything more than damp , anyone that works there knows the braking action is lousy bringing the figures in the perf manual into question !

What about covered walkways? (like EDI) instead of making pax walk in the wind and rain to remote stands? The two airport buses are no longer sufficient!

What about parking? Check in? upgrading the ILS on 14 to cat II,

Security? can you believe post 9/11 they still clamp un attended parked cars right infront of the terminal .... how dodgy is that?

Nope, the money is spent on more shops and burger joints!

Hopefully finningley force a re think.

[682ft AMSL]

.stand space, closure of runways least of the problems....

Channel Express have purchased 6 x B737s and have one from an earlier deal currently in the paint shop. Jet2 have said they intend to base more aircraft at LBA for summer 04, if not before. Put 2 and 2 together and its easy to see why LBA might be looking for a cheap ways to get more ramp space in a hurry. De-commissioning 27 and filling in the islands between Bravo & Charlie and Charlie & Alpha 3 fits the bill on both counts.

What about covered walkways? (like EDI) instead of making pax walk in the wind and rain to remote stands? The two airport buses are no longer sufficient!

A third bus was delivered a couple of weeks ago. A covered walkway running along the apron from the eastern end of the terminal has been mooted I believe.

What about parking? Check in? upgrading the ILS on 14 to cat II,

New long stay extension recently opened. Expansion to check-in area will be complete for summer 04. If the 14 ILS could have been upgraded easily, it would have been done years ago. Sadly, the high ground at Otley on the approach complicate matters. The key question is whether there is a glideslope angle above 3 degrees and below the current 3.5 degrees that is both within operational limits for CAT II approaches and satisfies the CAA that there is sufficient clearance over the high ground to the North?

Nope, the money is spent on more shops and burger joints!

The realities of running a regional airport I'm afraid. LBA makes a substantial operating loss on the aircraft handling side of the business, i.e. the fees it receives from airlines are less than the costs of supporting the airport infrastructure. The fact it makes a small profit overall is due to the rental income it receives from the retailers and caterers. The stakes have been raised with the arrival of Jet2 who will be paying little in the way of fees but whose handling requirements will increase the airport's costs. It is no surprise therefore that they have invested in a new catering complex which thanks to the extra passengers Jet2 have brought in, will deliver much higher rental income.

Hopefully finningley force a re think.

Don't think so. The loss-leading strategy outlined above is not only one for passenger growth but one which is designed to attract airlines and get them established before Finningley becomes operational in 2005. It is afterall, much easier to retain business than it is to attract it in the first place.

[HOODED]

Good post 682 you got there before me! As for resurfacing 14/32 yes its shabby in places but it was grooved for better drainage after the L1011 incident a few years back, but exactly how do you resurface a concrete runway?? Maybe it could be surfaced over but the costs would be high, better to wait for the next extension when they put in the loop at the 32 end and sort it then!? Just remember LBA is a regional aorport serving the largest county in the UK and is not owned by the BAA.

[ALLMCC]

what LBA needs is financial investment - maybe if someone like Ferrovial who control BRS and, more recently, BHD were to become involved then the work required would be undertaken. Remedial work will shortly commence on BHD's runway involving resurfacing and also on taxiways including strengthening where needed - the work is said to be costing around £6.5m - according to Ferrovials' website they are still looking for new opportunities for investment - seems LBA would be ideal!

[EESDL]

Sorry folks but it's your own fault for needing a runway to get into the air;-)
So, how long is 32's ILS off-line?

[pitchtrim]

Thanks 682, obviously a man in the know at Leeds.

My observations were based merely on the hassles I've experienced operating into LBA, its nothing comapared to some other places.

Just out of curiosity, why were the covered walkway mooted? I'm not sure the 3rd bus will be enough if the expected traffic increase materialises.

The runway is the biggest problem, and I must admit I have no idea how that could be solved. (can runways be resurfaced by night only?)

Cheers

Ps ...LBA still has the most fun weather!

[KAT TOO]

682&Pitchtrim

Walkways have been talked about for years.Bus three lasted about a week before some dick head "scuffed" the port side!!

Told the 14 ILS is cat 2 capable, but lighting isnt and would cost a 1/4 million to sort out! may have to drop glide angle to 3.1-3.3%

plans are a foot to fill in grass areas between holds and to use as nose in parking at peak times, which would mean 19/27 would not be avaiable due to lack of clearance.

Can't remember the last time 27 was used in anger when you couldn't(not prefered!)use 32 due to xwind limits, very little at LBA these days that could land on 27 anyway other than j32/41`s even ryanair don't try it!!

by all means keep it open for GA no real extra cost as most is used for taxing anyway.

New wine bar(yates) and burger bar is great.
Not sure how you could start with re-surfacing the runway, but must be the worst in UK other than city at Belfast

Not sure where they are going to put all next years movements, still its all good for the local builders

"just love a breeze"

[682ft AMSL]

The work done on the 14 glide a couple of years back to finally eliminate the GPWS alerts means this component at least should be sufficient for CAT2 - subject of course to the angle being able to be lowered. Judging by the puny localiser array though (in comparison to the rather impressive one at the other end that provides CAT3 on 32) I imagine this would need replacing. An all in cost for this and the lighting of £250k seems a good investment given the impact it would have on the diversion rate

As for re-surfacing, not an area I know much about. Is it possible to re-cover a concrete runway with tarmac / asphalt without having to dig up the original surface I wonder? If so, sounds like an overnight job for the winter.

682

[notbefore9]

Pitchtrim

Others seem to have covered most of your earlier points of "I am aircrew and must be listened to" view but have left out the one

"Security? can you believe post 9/11 they still clamp un attended parked cars right infront of the terminal .... how dodgy is that?"

Whilst it may not be the best solution to the problems of unattended vehicles it does however help to concentrate the mind of most drivers and hopefully reduces occurrences and therefore the number of times when the police need to be called to check up on a registration to see if it is "dodgy" or "suspicious".

I was now going to be frivolous but have changed my mind.;) ;)

NB49

[Scottie Dog]

Pitchtrim

Yes, runways can be resurfaced at night - ask Manchester about that, they have done it often enough in the past.

Cheers

Scottie Dog