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View Full Version : LH Tries to Block FR Low Fares Ads in German Court: DBA deja vu?


The Guvnor
29th Nov 2001, 14:50
November 28th, 2001:

RYANAIR TO FIGHT LUFTHANSA’S DIRTY TRICKS CAMPAIGN

Ryanair, Europe’s largest low fares airline today criticised the German high fares carrier Lufthansa for running to the German Courts yesterday - without any notification to Ryanair - to get an injunction to prevent Ryanair advertising the enormous savings which German consumers can now make when flying with Ryanair instead of Lufthansa from Frankfurt.

Ryanair also criticised the Press Department of the Cologne Court for giving an injunction to Lufthansa without even notifying Ryanair of the case or allowing Ryanair the opportunity to defend itself.

The Chief Executive of Ryanair, Michael O’Leary said today;

"This Court action by Lufthansa yesterday is typical of the dirty tricks employed by Lufthansa to prevent competition for air travel in Germany. Lufthansa can’t match Ryanair’s fares, so they creep into German courts late at night without telling anybody and get injunctions which are designed to prevent German consumers being made aware of the arrival of competition in air travel to/from Germany.

"Ryanair has instructed lawyers today to enter an immediate defence to the Lufthansa action and we will be appealing this injunction in order to have it lifted. I can also confirm that Ryanair will continue to advertise the fare comparisons between Lufthansa’s rip off air fares and Ryanair’s low air fares to and from Frankfurt designated airports and Ryanair will not be deterred by these dirty tricks employed by Lufthansa. They just prove that Lufthansa can’t match Ryanair’s fares.

"Consumers in Germany have been denied low fares for years by the Lufthansa monopoly. Ryanair will ensure that they will not be denied low fares by Lufthansa’s dirty tricks either" [/quote]

sabenapilot
29th Nov 2001, 15:05
...Enormous savings when flying when flying out fo Frankfurt with ryanair iso LH... Frankfurt?
Ryanair may not even use the word Frankfurt in their ads as their airport is nowhere near Franfurt! (cfr. court decision from last week)

yaffel1
29th Nov 2001, 15:12
As long as they state they're flying from Hahn I don't see the problem.

And as implied, it's not the first time that LH have gone running to the courts as soon as they are faced with competition. It will be interesting to see what they do, whether they'll adopt the tactics they used against Go on STN-MUC.

Bill prasifka
29th Nov 2001, 15:16
Hahn is designated as a frankfurt airport by IATA.

People arent stupid they know that using FR means travelling from a secondry airport and they know that you dont get a free sandwich. But they factor this (along with the fare) into the decision on who to fly with, price comparisons are the only way to ensure consmuers get a fair (or should that be 'fare') deal

Vref +50
29th Nov 2001, 18:37
LH lost all my respect with the predatory pricing they operated when Go entered the STN-MUC route. They dropped their fares by 55% within a week and operated it at a loss for over 9 months trying to drive off the low cost competition.

Nice big juicy market is Germany. I can't wait to watch the AngloIrish countries clean up.

VREF

moggie
29th Nov 2001, 20:14
Mr O'Leary should look to clean up his own act first. Ryanair are the champion exponents of the "no such thing as a free lunch" principle.

Whenever they advertise a free/low cost deal there is usually some catch. "Fly to Paris from Dublin for 9 quid" but only if you get the ONE seat per aeroplane available at that price! etc. etc.

This is why they have their own seats at the Advertising Standards Agency - they are always being called in to exp`lain themselves (there are more complaints about their advertising than for any other airline).

Say no more

BEagle
29th Nov 2001, 22:42
Several points here:

1. Low cost LH (or BA) flights between London and Frankfurt seem to be a thing of the past. I used to fly out on Friday nights and back on Monday mornings on LH, then it became impossibly expensive. "What happened to the advance booking cheap seats?", I asked. "Ve still haff them" I was told. But I selected 20 dates at random and on not one was there a cheap flight from London Airport (LHR) to Frankfurt and back. "Vielleicht the flights from Stansted cheaper being are" said the person with whom I spoke. So I loked up Stansted flights to Frankfurt - and discovered buzz were far, far cheaper. Plus you could buy a drink when you wanted rather than being force-fed a Lufthansakaesebroetchen at top of drop if they'd finished pandering to the fat @r$es in Business Class. The buzz cabin team are so much friendlier than either the clinically efficient LH ladies or their gel-haired pretty boys who make my flesh creep.

2. Ryanair do NOT fly to Frankfurt. They fly to an ex-military aerodrome called Hahn which is B£OODY MILES from Frankfurt - a long bus or train ride (which takes even longer than the flight!) is then needed to get anywhere close to the city.

3. Quite frankly LH are too smug and rely on their business traffic whilst Ryanair are rather imaginative in describing their Hahn flights as flights to Frankfurt. In my opinion the only airline to have got it right is buzz - and thanks to them I'll be off again over the New Year to see my ladylove once more!

moggie
30th Nov 2001, 01:23
Come on BEagle - get that butt of yours off the fence!

If you are not keen on Ryanair and LH then say so!

I have to say my experience of LH matches yours - the cabin crew looked like extras from "Cabaret". Hitlerfrauen and dodgy looking boys.

Ryanair Franfurt (Hann) matches London (Luton). Roll on London (Carterton) International or London (Lyneham). I suppose that at least Hann is in the same country as Frankfurt - one of the Ryanair flights to Sweden actually lands in Denmark (or vice versa - can't be asked to look it up!).

MEVERTSGB
30th Nov 2001, 05:41
Don't underestimate the Germans or LH.

'Zey have vays to make you pay ze full fare'.

Germans are obsessed with quality which is why Ryanair would not be an option for most Germans. They would be embarrassed to be seen chosing a cheapskate option like Ryanair ('ze neigbours would go on about zat for a long time !!). There is a limited market though: - the people that would normally travel by bus (i.e. the sort of people you wouldn't want sitting next to you in an aircraft).

Anyway, better watch this space. If Irish Leprechaun's like MO'L are trying to take the p*i*s*s* out of Germans, then the 'zey will change ze relevant EU laws'. :D :D :D

I wonder of MO'L is driving a german car ?

maxalt
30th Nov 2001, 06:20
Vref +50, LH lost all my respect with the predatory pricing they operated when Go entered the STN-MUC route. They dropped their fares by 55% within a week and operated it at a loss for over 9 months trying to drive off the low cost competition.

How funny! FR lost all my respect with the predatory pricing they operated when Go entered the DUB-EDI route. They dropped their fares by 55% within a week and operated it at a loss for over 9 months trying to drive off the low cost competition.

Kerosene Kraut
30th Nov 2001, 13:19
More competition sounds good so far.
But is Ryanair really competing that much with LH? Don't think so. Not a single german domestic route. Airports carefully chosen away from LH's. No "official" network connections. Aside from that media hype MOL keeps himself from directly challenging LH. This LH-court appeal is a routine reflex nobody was surprised about. Doesn't even mean LH is getting nervous. Admitting that could change one day...

MarkD
30th Nov 2001, 23:45
Very poor out of LH - probably sour grapes that FR now [I hear] has a higher market cap. :D

Blocking advertising in court should be a function of a consumer protection agency, not a judge who probably sits up front with the local flagcarrier when he flies.

And charterguy - kind of an odd name for someone who despises the people who travel by bus... sounds like people who fly charter to me...

MEVERTSGB
1st Dec 2001, 05:07
MarkD

You must have joined the airlines via the 200 hour route, which would explain why you haven't heard of VIP/Executive charter. There are two types of people you won't find on our planes, bus travellers and 'aerial' bus drivers ! ;)

Squawk7777
1st Dec 2001, 09:07
I read that Herr Weber plans to only operate three airlines for whole Europe:

LH
Air France
BA

At least they'll have one thing in common with Micros@ft: Monopoly

Don't remember exactly where I read it, it must be on the Financial Times site somewhere...

Now you know what LH is up to

Correct me if I am wrong...

Airking
1st Dec 2001, 14:37
Dirty tricks ?
Using the legal system is no dirty trick. if not justified, the court will turn down the whole case...why just not wait for the outcome? An executive with MOL´s attitude (aggresive is his second name) will always fire on anyone around...Mr.Weber is payd for the same job, and, sorry, he does it good !
So if FR competes with LH, customers will sort out the things for them.

May the better one win !

BTW, I´m not LH minded in any way
____________________________________________
@Quote:
moggie:
I have to say my experience of LH matches yours - the cabin crew looked like extras from "Cabaret". Hitlerfrauen and dodgy looking boys.
____________________________________________

Just for your records moggie: ve in schermany look and behave still like 60 years ago... Saths vhy ve still fight see british, this time in business !!

[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: Airking ]

Airking
1st Dec 2001, 14:44
Quote:
"Consumers in Germany have been denied low fares for years by the Lufthansa monopoly. Ryanair will ensure that they will not be denied low fares by Lufthansa’s dirty tricks either" [/quote]

Tomorrow, I´ll fly SAS CPH / STR. GC DISTANCE 472 nm Price: 850.-DM
IN JANUARY I´VE GOT TO FLY LH / UNITED MUC / ICT DISTANCE 4649 NM price: 1194.- DM
BOTH FLIGHTS BOOKED IN ECONOMY-CLASS...

ISN´T THAT CHEAP ENOUGH ?
CLAERLY LH MAKES ITS MONEY ON ROUTES WHERE NO COMPETITION IS... AS ALL THE OTHERS DO !

Denti
1st Dec 2001, 14:49
Squawk777, that there'll be only three major airlines in europe is not an invention of Mr. Weber, thats something he got from listening to all those analysts writing in the financial times and handelsblatt. They're all predicting that since september 11th. And btw, that was the info we got from our "shareholder" (british airways).

We tried to fight LH with low fares for about 10 years now, and it didn't worked so far. Now we are raising (18% this year alone) the fares like LH does, to come back in a regime of healthy fares.

[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: Denti ]

Schorsch
2nd Dec 2001, 02:26
Who knows maybe is FR one of the 3 Airlines!
:D :D :D

penguin
2nd Dec 2001, 02:36
squawk777:

1 is monopoly
2 is duopoly
more than that is oligopoly
:p

Squawk7777
2nd Dec 2001, 03:20
Thanks Penguin! If you brake it down per country, you'll still end up with a monopoly, right? :D

penguin
2nd Dec 2001, 03:41
No, because I can "brake" it down. Even if you "break" it down, it's still not true because under EU, LH can operate domestic services in France and vice-versa. :p