View Full Version : Lcc's to be forced to compensate ?.
ragspanner
3rd Jul 2003, 01:41
The European parliament is debating compensation paid (or not!) by european airlines for cancelled,delayed or overbooked flights. Having been on the receiving end of several lcc's '
'customer service' i can only hope that any legislation regarding a commensurate level of compensation is 'very' speedily adopted !.
PAXboy
3rd Jul 2003, 01:56
You get what you pay for. LCCs don't compensate because they don't charge fees to allow them to.
I guess you have to consider the times that you have been inconvienienced by a carrier (of all types) and then balance the compensation received against the fare paid.
Over some 25 years of paying my own air fares, I would be hard put to think of a time when I have been completely stranded. Friends that have been stranded in various countries of the world, take it as part of life. Yes, of course, it can be a hideous problem and deeply frustrating but then, life is!
If this legislation does go through, it will have a severe effect on LCCs and if they start charging more money or cutting back on service (i.e. jobs) I wonder how clever the legislators will think themselves. Sounds like the EU want to have it both ways. In most things, one cannot.
spekesoftly
3rd Jul 2003, 06:13
One thing's for sure, if the legislation goes through, fares will go up. Where else would the revenue to cover compensation come from?
Does not easyJet refund the entire fare if a delay of more than four hours is experienced?
Golf Charlie Charlie
3rd Jul 2003, 07:36
<<<
Does not easyJet refund the entire fare if a delay of more than four hours is experienced?
>>>
Yes, I can confirm this from personal experience, or they will book you on another flight of your choice over the same routing for no additional cost.
What is the 'norm' from other UK based airlines re compensation?
BEagle
3rd Jul 2003, 17:10
Compensation for overbooking, lost luggage, technical delays, flight cancellations etc. seems entirely reasonable. But for weather delays? Surely not.
The Ryanair spokesman on TV last night did not put his point over very well. Instead of making any positive statement that of course his company would compensate passengers in such rare and exceptional cases, he merely whined about how unfair this was and that it was unique to the airline industry... In fact he portrayed a very poor image of his airline.
ShamRoc
3rd Jul 2003, 18:43
Proving liability may be the difficulty. Overbooking and lost baggage may be straighforward but cancellation and delay?
Weather can be construed as "circumstances beyond our control" but what about tech or the catch all 'ATC are to blame" (even if most of the time it is not the fault of ATC!)
spekesoftly
3rd Jul 2003, 18:51
Compensation for overbooking, lost luggage, technical delays, flight cancellations etc. seems entirely reasonable. But for weather delays? Surely not.
Something like this (http://www.easyjet.co.uk/EN/book/regulations.html#delays) perhaps? ................. And no, I'm not in their employ.
Surely the real issue is whether or not LCC pax are willing to pay more for a higher level of compensation?
ShamRoc
3rd Jul 2003, 19:11
I suggest that when pax book they do so in the expectation that the carrier will honour the contract to fly them to where they want to go when they want to go. It is only when the carrier fails in this duty that the question of compensation may arise. LCCs are not absolved from this duty of care just because they offer low fares. Indeed, it is because carriers did no introduce any voluntary uniform code of compensation and generally treated the hapless punters shabbily that legislation is now being introduced. The carriers only have themselves to blame and if it means they sharpen up then it can only be in the interests of the travelling public.
PaxmanwithInfo
3rd Jul 2003, 20:49
I am somewhat bemused by this superstate interference which may threaten cheaper fares across the board for all airlines by coming up with arbitrary amount of compensation.
In my opinion - it should the case that a pax would receive a full refund if the carrier does not honour the contract and cancels a flight or overbooks. We could also make overbooking illegal with a fine per pax overbooked (possibly based on the avreage fare for the flight) that is immediately distributed to the affected pax.
The refund to the pax should be the full amount paid (no processing charges deducted) if it is proven that the carrier is at fault ONLY ever equaling the amount paid for the service. Fair is fair.
If the delay/cancellation is due to Industrial Action - say an Air Traffic Control dispute - should the ATC company not then re-imburse the airline for breach of contract/denial of service - also?
From a fairness perspective should buses, boats and trains be subject to the same form of refund policy - I should think so. Why is air travel any different?
Arbitrary compensation is not fair. Refund - I believe - is. As well as making over-booking illegal with a scale of fines equal to the average fare paid that is immediately credited to the pax.
Arbitrary compensation is anti-competitive and heavy-handed interference. However, in the interests of natural justice - you should never have to pay for a service that you do not receive but to be additionally compensated is just plain greedy and illogical.
I think that the low-costs would back what I've proposed here. They are not highway bandits but to use the very Irish phrase - "They are not keen on taking a bite out of a stone wall".
Fairness should prevail NOT arbitrary non-martket related fines.
Paxmanwithinfo
PPRuNe Towers
3rd Jul 2003, 21:10
The Spinners for the LCC's have had a fairly easy ride with the media so far. As with many these days they farm out services which are very directly related to baggage and tech delays. Auntie Barbara at Go always described them as "Bearhug" relationships - if we hurt so do they.
Swinging penalties (compensation:confused: :confused: ) built into the contracts for failure to perform;) ;) ;)
ReginaldSpotter
3rd Jul 2003, 21:24
Most people in the travel industry realise the reason for overbooking.
It increases load factors and load factors dictate price.
Stopping airlines from overbooking by any method will increase prices and there is no doubt of this by any logical person.
While people here are espouting equality by making all travel modes equal why do the not make passenger who book flights and not turn up pay for all flights?
It is not uncommon for business traveller to book 2 or 3 return flights because they do not know when they will finish.
If these are full tickets then they are fully refundable with no penalty and only the airline suffers
Pax Vobiscum
4th Jul 2003, 01:09
As SLF, it seems to me that there are two different cases here. LCC where the ticket is for a specific flight - if I miss it (for whatever reason) I tear the ticket up and buy another. There is no justification (except for natural greed) in this environment for deliberate overbooking, and if I am inconvenienced by the airline's overbooking I should be compensated.
On the other hand we have the full service carriers, who as Reg.Spotter points out need to overbook to cater for the significant number of no-shows on fully flexible tickets. In the case of an overbooked flight, logic would suggest that pax on flexible tickets should get bumped first, but does this happen in practice? AFAIK it is normal to offer financial inducements to persuade volunteers to opt for a later flight, but usually much less than the £400+ proposed by the EU.
Final 3 Greens
5th Jul 2003, 04:07
Last offer I got (from KLM) a couple of years ago was to move to next flt (2 hours later), have £200 in cash and 2 free return tkts LON/AMS/LON.
Probably worth circa £400.
Sadly needed to be there and couldn't accept, but not a bad offer.
Whooaahh
7th Jul 2003, 19:45
As someone who flies extensively for business reasons, I think paxmanwithinfo, misses the whole point when he stated he would consider a full refund would be adequate compensation for disrupted airtravel.
I only get on a plane when I have to get from point A to point B to carry out my business, I suppose most of us are there for pretty much the same purpose. I only get on a plane when the distances involved warrant it and/or it is a cost effective method of transport. "My Business" means meetings with prospective customers, contract negotiations, presentations, etc. but could easily mean for VFR, holidays, social commitments, etc. to others and these are no less important reasons to get on a plane.
If the airline in question breaches their contract with me to safely transport me to Point B, then I could be looking a significant financial losses for my employer as a result and if the chosen airline is at fault then they should be made to pay somesort of compensation. The importance of the VFR / holiday passengers should not in any way be diminished as a) they have usually paid for their flights with their own money (unlike myself), and b) have probably been planning their "2 week's in the sun" for months and c) only have one holiday a year (if that).
Wether they are a so called "Low Cost Carrier" of not, let's not forget that Low Cost carrier in the words of Mr. Haji Iannoui...doesn't neccessarily mean "Low Fare Airline", adeqaute compensation for any inconvenience caused is a basic element of good customer service.
I am travelling to EDI from GVA in two week's with my wife for my Grandmothers 90th birthday. No amount of money will compensate her for us not being able to join her for this momentous day. I have also chosen to fly BA GVA-LHR-EDI as at the time of booking BA was cheaper than EZY and I can check my luggage through on BA.
LCC or full service carrier, if you screw up someones life you have to pay the price.
I suspect we will see an increase in the number of unspecified delay announcements. "FLIGHT XXX is delayed due to late arrival of the inbound aircraft...Next information in 1 hour!" Grrrrr!
Whooaahh!!!
Aviation Trainer too
8th Jul 2003, 20:13
If the compensation is merely for overbooking it should be no problem as they do not tend to overbook as far as I am aware. Overbooking and overbooking rules are only applicable to the Business pax with flex tickets for which the airline has to make space available in case they do turn up or not. Each route has a specific profile of show/early show/ late show/ no show for business pax. Paris london was a bad one and thus to make some money airlines gamble to make sure you are on board...
LCC should not have to overbook as long as the tickets are not flexible.
Colleague of mine was overbooked on Ryanair to Dublin; having scheduled a 737-800 it was delayed inbound (or went tech, or wrong aircraft type loaded into the res system - never got any meaningful information), and a 737-200 was substituted. Those left behind were regarded as overbooked.