Waddington airshow

[Eagle 270]

Having just been to one of UK's largest airshows, I feel I must comment on a couple of things. I felt the Airshow was really good concerning the flying display and organisation. Top notch. In this day and age of op commitments and lack of resources, the guys really pulled it out of the bag. Absolutely no complaints there. The one thing I have a bag on about is the standard of some of the personnel who attended. I feel that witnessing RAF aircrew walking around the general public with flying suit sleeves rolled up, wearing any description of sunglasses and having hands in pockets puts across a negative image of our Air Force. Very American. I feel that the public expects a higher standard of our armed forces when on public display. Something that the younger members seem to have no idea about. The trouble is I also witnessed ranks above Sqn Ldr who had no regard for there own turn out. Flying suits that had just been removed from there packing from flying clothing which looked like a bag of crisps. I'm not asking for Pirbright standards but basic military bearing in the public eye is not being overly facist!

When at an airshow, we all like to wear a grow bag with lots of badges but I feel it sets a bad example to the public when we look a bag of ****e. I even had to reprimand a couple of Cranditz types who felt it necessary to wear a flying suit with more badges on than Tom Cruise that last saw an iron in 1982. To add insult to injury, they were openly smoking and showing 'public displays of affection'. Who is their Flt commander?

I was in civvies for the event but when I suggested that they might not be putting across an altogether good impression in front of the civvies, I got a rebuke of 'wind your neck in civpop, we are FJ pilots'. Even when I revealed my identity, they showed little understanding of the RAF rank system! Now those that know me would agree that I'm not a bull5hit merchant and I'm not the smartest person in a flying suit but, on the rare occasions we present ourselves to the public, we need to ensure that we don't look like a bunch of plane spotters!

As a postscript, I chatted to a few of the army types and felt that they’re bearing and turn out to be exemplary. I spoke to a corporal pilot and his persona displayed nothing short of utmost professionalism. These people actually walked around the show with their berets on and saluted commissioned officers! Even in front of the plebeians! This is what the civvies want. If we want to ensure we have an air force, we have to appear to be different from the masses.

AMC@JHC

[BEagle]

I do hope that the negative image caused by the bunch of scruffs to whom you refer wasn't too obvious to the general public.

At least in 2 Gp the rules for flying suits are clear - flying badge and name on the front and not more than one badge per sleeve! Hats are supposed to be worn - but the rolled up sleeve look is normally displayed by the same sort of people who have plastic spoons in their pen pockets.....

'Clean, smart and of uniform appearance' does not seem to have been the case at Waddo - and it sounds as though the Cranditz types certainly needed a good kick up the ar$e!

[rivetjoint]

I think its even more important that an effort is made on the appearance front now that British flight suits are the same colour as our friends across the ocean. Something has to be done if you don't want the 'slightly-but-poorly' informed public to think you're from over the waters!

[Didntdoit]

Eagle - whilst not in anyway condoning the standard of dress, don't come to RIAT - you'll have a heart attack!:suspect: RIAT, compared to Waddo, will be a zoo!

[witchdoctor]

Only the saddest of civvie anoraks or Hyacinth Bucket types would give two hoots about the standard of military dress. I think most of them come to watch the flying rather than to play Jeff Banks and critique the sartorial inelegance of the crews. Get a life you plonker!

[bigley]

Surely someone of your implied rank/status should be able to use their/there/they're properly! What sort of example does poor English set to us younger members of HM Forces. :D

[DamienB]

Civvy point of view - blokes walking round looking relaxed puts a more human face on the forces personnel. Lets the kids in particular know it's not all supermen and the job isn't one they'll never manage to do but is something attainable after all.

Fantastic flying I thought - Sunday particularly - F-4, F-16, F-18 and F.3 all particularly impressive. Looking at the German Tornados, it's a pity the RAF's days of spectacular paint schemes seem to be over! However good to see Marham let a GR.4 with warpaint out for the public to see.

Thought it was a bit silly to schedule all the quiet prop jobs together in the programme though - poor sod in the Tutor, having to go on just after Denny Dobson, who had about twice the horsepower and the limbo thing...

Gratuitous plug - some piccies in Aviation history & nostalgia forum.

[smartman]

Spot-on BEagle. Tis that sort of scruffiness and lack of pride in the uniform (and yes, the grobag is a uniform) that gets up the nose. It's nothing to do with the Cruise image, blunty v jet-jock arguments, example to kids etc, it's all about letting down the Service, Squadron and Self. Don't give a toss about the anti-Meldrew comments that this view will no doubt attract; I just hope that most aircrew are more concerned about their public appearance, and that it's the sad minority who put across the loutish image. And if anyone should suggest that my views are purile in the 'operational/going to war' sense - I disagree.

Wow! I can feel the chest-prodding already -----------

[soddim]

Well said smartman and bigley. Smart dress and good spelling are the essential ingredients of a modern air force!

[Tourist]

Smartman, eagle, beagle etc.
what a bag of w@nk!
get a life:yuk:

[round&round]

As a Waddington local who attended the show in flying suit I think I can offer a few concillitory comments. Firstly, local orders re the wearing of badges strictly follows 2 Gp orders and is enforced.

SRO's stated that hats were not to be worn on the airfield side. The AAC guys were obviously not aware of this.

Certainly, I experienced and talked to some Cranwell and UAS cadets who's behaviour was inappropiate and immature. Perhaps that's a sign of the times.

Both days were hot and sunny and sun glasses were essential. Until the RAF issues Raybans or Oakleys, people have no choice but to wear their own.

It's also worth remembering that an awful lot of spotters like to dress up for the day. I saw a few who had the full regalia including a couple with rank stripes.

I thought it was a great show and on the whole the RAF presented itself very positively and effectively.

[SPIT]

Hi
As I have stated in another forum (C130 J the display was superb but I was in the back of beyond in the South Car Park and whilst we had a great view there were NO TOILETS WITHIN 3/4 MILE OF US and when you have aj injured leg it is a Sod having to get the bus when you want to go (even though the bus was free). Did anyone else have this experiance????:mad: :mad:

[BEagle]

Tourist - if, as your profile implies, you are a member of what some refer to as the Senior Service, I am surprised that you do not find comments by mere 'Crabs' concerning the scruffiness of certain folk in accordance with your service's self-professed high sartorial standards.

[The Gorilla]

Eagle

You are so full of your own self-importance I bet you can hardly breathe!! Senior Officer are we?? Constipated as well?? Just listen to your own drivel...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I even had to reprimand a couple of Cranditz types who felt it necessary to wear a flying suit with more badges on than Tom Cruise that last saw an iron in 1982. To add insult to injury, they were openly smoking and showing 'public displays of affection'. Who is their Flt commander?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot of people at these Air shows are not who they may seem to be.

You on the other hand are every bit the cretin you appear to be. I had the misfortune to be working at the Air show and despite the fact that yes, being in the RAF is very negative these days, I still presented my best image to Joe Public.

You need to get a life and have your blood pressure checked you stupid muppet!!!!!!!!!!!!



:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[DaveyBoy]

I even had to reprimand a couple of Cranditz types who felt it necessary to wear a flying suit with more badges on than Tom Cruise that last saw an iron in 1982.

Of course I agree with the idea that the RAF should present a smart appearance to the public, but in addition to round&round's points regarding hats and sunglasses, you will no doubt be aware that squippers can get quite upset if they find out you've been ironing flying suits you intend to wear in the air.

So I think there's a fine line between one having no regard for appearance, and one sticking to the rules and looking like a bag of sh*te nevertheless.

Dave

[Good Mickey]

Well done and thanks to all those involved with the Waddo Airshow, it was a fantastic weekend. I thought that the Spanish F-18 was particularly impressive closely followed by the Herc role demo. Oh and I didn't see anybody letting the Air Force down due to standards of dress but did see lots of lovely ladies.

[mutleyfour]

Have to agree...F 18 was very good but the Sukhoi 26 was easily the best of show. Amazing flying, especially the "really hard" manouvre which had a running commentary over the PA system which had been linked to the pilots radio.

How on earth he managed up to 10 G without a G suit and spoke to the crowd, I don't know.

With regard to dress, Isn't that normal for airshows nowadays? Its a condition of the Royal Air Force that a flying suit is also a set of coveralls as well as a drinking tracksuit...in fact im sure that the majority of RAF issued flying suits spend on average 99% of their time firmly placed on the ground!

:ok:

[DamienB]

the Sukhoi 26 was easily the best of show. Amazing flying, especially the "really hard" manouvre which had a running commentary over the PA system which had been linked to the pilots radio.

How on earth he managed up to 10 G without a G suit and spoke to the crowd, I don't know.

Best of show - you must be kidding. With 460 odd hp and an 8 foot prop, spending most of your time hanging off said prop is just fecking boring and merely demonstrates the pilot has money to burn on powerful aircraft and engineers to fix his engine every time he knackers it. Been watching that bloke's displays for a while now and don't think I've seen him come up with anything original yet - it's all nicked off others. The Tutor was a better display of skill - and the Extra immeasurably more entertaining. What's the betting Mr. Su-26 copies Denny's limbo act next eh.

[smartman]

Anyone spot the sexy BWoS blonde ?

[flyboy007]

LLLLLOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR.It's quite simple really.
1) You don't want people wearing all types of different sunglasses?Then hows about YOU get the rules changed so that the issue specs are half decent, as currently they put the RAF to shame (even if they are tested to 25g and capable of surviving a rapid depressurisation at 76000' blah blah blah). No civvy in their right mind would encourage their offspring to join a company that makes a walking mockery of spec wearers!
2) Don't like aircrew with sleeves rolled up? YOU organise a decent flying suit that is comfortable in warm weather (not like the "new" design, which, after years of careful research and ££, is a different shade of green!).
3)Hands in pockets? I concur, it looks a little sloppy at times. Here you are sla*ging off the Americans, saying we don't want to look like them; THEY DON'T HAVE HIP POCKETS IN THEIR FLYING SUITS! They are better dressed than us when it comes to flying wear.
4) Anyone seen with a crease in their flying suit should be immediately sent to PMA. YOU DON'T IRON FLYING SUITS!!!!
5) Smoking in uniform? Sounds like the comments of a non-smoker to me. Smoking isn't BAD, it's a choice. Anyone small minded enough to slate the RAF because some of their personnel "SMOKE", is obviously as An*l Retentive as your self!
6) Mordernise. We ain't in 1923 (or whenever it was you joined) anymore. Fashion has changed, and the RAF should be seen as up with the times, in all respects.

That is all, Carry on.

[witchdoctor]

Wait, it gets worse!!! I believe the grass on the airfield was not the regulation 1 inch (or 25.4mm for our European friends) and nobody had polished the runway!:eek: It was the most awful shade of dull grey.

Disgraceful display of standards. How on earth are we going to impress Joe public by having such sloppy standards? I really think the Station Commander ought to be taken out and shot at dawn.

And don't get me started on the aircraft! I'm sure I saw some with smokey marks all over them, fingerprints on the canopy, dull paintwork, blah blah blah!!! Does nobody possses TurtleWax these days? And what's with all these smoke trails from vortex generators and the like, leaving random assymetric patterns all over the sky? It's just not on old chap.

I didn't join the Air Force to allow all this sloppiness to spoil my image. The public deserves better what. Die with dignity I say. Ride into battle with all buttons gleaming and a lovely pair of shiny shoes - that'll show those cretinous foreign johnnies!!!

Toodle pip what what!!

[StopStart]

Flying Suits at air shows eh?
Last one I can remember I left wearing a dayglo orange dutch SAR flying suit.... fairly confident that wasn't what I was wearing at the start of the party...
Come to think of it, that hadn't been ironed either. I must've looked a state......what with that and the several pints of beer I'd thrown over myself. I shall pen a letter of complaint to the Dutch MoD forthwith.

Anyway, I'm still mourning the loss of the turn-ups on the No1 trousers and the bottom brass button on the No1 Jacket.....

Standards etc etc! Bahhhhhhhh. :p


Livid of Lyneham.

[Zoom]

Some of you might need to remember that until you get far enough up the totem pole to change the dress regulations and the kit itself, you're stuck with it all.

[StopStart]

Exactly.

So let's have a little less mumbling in the ranks.

You there! Stop sniggering or it'll be the glasshouse for you!

:hmm:

[jayteeto]

The original post has pros and cons, but what hacks me off is the reaction of some of you lot. I make people wear issue kit to fly. On the ground at air shows, we MUST set an example of sorts. The public expect you to look professional. Please...... do not say that people are trying to appear 'normal' to the public. Let's be honest guys, you wear Oakleys and roll the sleeves up to meet an image, an elite one at that. YOU LOVE THE ATTENTION! That is ok, but hands in pockets and scruffy suits is not on.

[L J R]

.

...actually, I wear my Ray Bans because they work. I only presume that Oakleys do too.

.

[JohnB]

.

and service issue glasses don't work????

.

[T_Handle]

Aircrew in flying suits ehh!!!!!

Who'd have believed it!!!?

Next you will be wanting to revive the QR for underpant inspections of the troops!!!

I'd like to see Her Majesty's finest C-17 "Mr Whippies" walking round with their hands in their pockets...... that would be a fete!

Ya boo, sucks to you - Fritzy!

[flyboy007]

"" Please...... do not say that people are trying to appear 'normal' to the public. Let's be honest guys, you wear Oakleys and roll the sleeves up to meet an image...""

Blo0dy oath I wear oakley's cause they look better; lets face it, a gimp mask would look better than the RAF Issue specs. Any self respecting young man/women wouldn't be caught dead in them, let alone alive!!! As for sleeves up, it's called COMFORTABLE. I fully concur that hands in pockets look scruffy, but lets face it, as long as the RAF flying suits have hip pockets, people will play pocket billiards. Wanna look better in flying wear?? Buy American flying suits, which are probably half the price, not designed by comittee, even (God forbid) fireproof. They don't have useless velcro which leaves the pocket flaps sticking out all over the place, and there aren't 24 different shades of green. It's fine to slate another mil, but not until ours better!Perhaps we should concentrate on being the best, and a little less time on trying to look the best.At the mo, it's neither!

[DamienB]

And yes, you must be psychic - SU26 did the first ribbon cut at the Old Buckenham display on Sunday

Says it all really. Dobbo helped the bloke out when he wanted to learn display flying, and now he just copies everything Dobbo does. Guess he can't have taught himself badly if he gets people just aping what he does, eh?

[Sqnpest]

Flyboy 007,

I whole-heartedly agree with you on the subject of flying suits. I went into stores to pick up my new flying suit and guess what? It's more uncomfortable and they have manged to position the pen holder so they dig into your arm whilst you are flying. Once again a magnificant performance from our "smart" procurement teams. You would have thought they would have tried the kit out first! I say buy American, wear raybans/oakleys and hopefully when the heirachy finally gets annoyed with us "gash" aircrew they will finally buy something worthy of wearing. Until then, let's continue to look how the kit actually performs: Pathetically. :E

[Zlin526]

Ah yes, but who won the prize for best display at Waddo? SU26 I think......

and now back to the subject of this thread.............................

[DamienB]

What, the prize that everybody I've spoken to has said "You must be kidding" to? Not met anybody who agreed with that decision - the F-18 driver deserved it by a mile.

[rivetjoint]

Maybe you might ask to be on the voting panel next year then? But as someone else said on this thread until you're senior enough to make decisions you'll just have to live with those made by others.

[witchdoctor]

I love this thread. I'm sure the public would be delighted to be reassured to know that the military isn't full of petty, stuffy old farts obsessed with minutia that nobody else gives two hoots about which absolutely refutes the stereotype joe public has of the great british military, especially officers.

[Grob Driver]

F-18 was pretty awesome, but I have to say, I’m not sure if it was the best… I personally think the best display of the show was the two navy Lynx. What they did with those helicopters is very impressive…. Anyone agree?

Cheers

Grob Driver

[smartman]

In my day (and I used to hate that starter as much as you) we flew as hard, drank as hard, womanised as well, had similar inferior kit, moaned about the same issues, and sometimes got in the s**t. We also made the most of what we had - and (at great Meldrew risk again) took a general pride in things. And yes, we also envied the US and their flying kit. Sure, there was a small minority that looked like a tub of turds and revelled in whinging, whining, and describing the boring majority as old farts.

I guess then, from most of the foregoing threads, that not a lot has changed -----------

[Vortex what...ouch!]

Well you lot certainly don’t come across as professional aircrew. You come across as whinging pretentious children.

The impression of the RAF sinks to new lows with this crap. You joined an armed force representing this country not a civvy company. There are rules to follow. If it doesn’t suit you leave.

Whinging like this does nothing for your public image. You just lost the support of (at least) one voter here.

Nothing but little boys with big toys.

[mutleyfour]

What, the prize that everybody I've spoken to has said "You must be kidding" to? Not met anybody who agreed with that decision - the F-18 driver deserved it by a mile.

How much of the F 18 pilots performance is based on the software programming teams efforts when the little box of tricks was put together at the factory? Fly by Wire technology means a lot easier demo to fly...doesnt it?

[StopStart]

My, my, aren't there some jolly angry people out there in Internetland?

Now then, what was the question?

:hmm:

Prententious? Moi? etc etc.

[Vortex what...ouch!]

Not really SS.;)

You just re-enforce the stereotype and contribute to the problem. But you knew that before you posted didn’t you?:rolleyes:

Enjoy your day.

[Sqnpest]

Vortex,

.....I must be in one! You mean I haven't joined a civvy company full of fat cat directors? :D

[Yeller_Gait]

[QUOTE]Well you lot certainly don’t come across as professional aircrew. You come across as whinging pretentious children.

The impression of the RAF sinks to new lows with this crap. You joined an armed force representing this country not a civvy company. There are rules to follow. If it doesn’t suit you leave.

Whinging like this does nothing for your public image. You just lost the support of (at least) one voter here.

Nothing but little boys with big toys.QUOTE]

Vortex,

Thanks for that. Much as I think I should not rise to your rantings .....

There has been much debate about the kit all the armed forces are issued with, and all are agreed that it could be better, and with respect to flying kit in particular, numerous contributors have summed it up nicely already, but as a quick resume, the new flying coverall is nothing more than a change of colour in reality, (but I am sure that someone will have got promoted out of it), and in the case of Waddington aircrew in particular (and other large a/c) , can anyone answer me, what is the point of the "J" knife? Give me a Leatherman any day, and it wouldn't even cost anything to modify the suits to accomodate the knife.

The issue sunglasses are barely worth a mention, and I am certain that you would not have found a single aircrew chappie/ess at Waddington last weekend actually wearing the things.

I do have to agree with you on one point though, your comments about if you don't like it, then leave. For various reasons, and yours is but a minor one, aircrew and other members of the Armed Forces will be leaving in their droves over the next few years, just watch this space.

Last point, were you actually at Waddington over the weekend? In my view all the Waddington personnel on duty, and that was the vast majority of the station strength, were all well turned out and did the RAF proud, well done everyone I am sure a load of money was raised for charity etc.

[Sqnpest]

Yeller_Gait..

You are hereby recommended for promotion to CAS and here, have an OBE to boot.

Fine words old chap.

Carry On.

[Vortex what...ouch!]

Certainly not trying to get anyone to “rise to my bait”. Simply saying what I see. Several people just came across as whingers saying ****** off when what appeared to be a valid point was made.

In reply to your point about equipment, if it doesn’t work then what are you doing about it, other than moaning on an internet BB? If much money was spent redesigning a flight suit and the only change was its colour what have those complaining done about it? Surely these people who worked on it are accountable. Have they pointed it out to their boss? I doubt it. Have they pushed it up to MoD? If you don’t contribute don’t complain about the results.

I read the complaints about the knife something like a year or so ago. Who has actually attempted to get the system to change it?

My point was that as officer aircrew you are supposed to be above average. Some of the posts on this thread paint a picture of pampered schoolboys who don’t like it when they have some criticism levelled at them. “I’m super FJ pilot, if you don’t like it bog off”. Hardly the riposte of an intelligent professional.

Like it or not that is the message that is put across and then re-enforced by people taking the mickey. If you don’t like my opinion of you then prove it wrong.

Not after a flame war here just telling it like I read it.;)

[Zoom]

Many moons ago I was in the USA to see the Red Arrows and the Thunderbirds performing at the same show together for the first time. The Thunderbird pilots and groundcrew looked absolutely immaculate down to the last detail but the team flew a large, boring and not particularly challenging routine. The Arrows pilots and groundcrew looked, well, rather workmanlike - even in their tailored suits - but in the air they absolutely wowed the American crowd. This proves that even the Arrows don't know how to dress for the occasion, and how you look doesn't necessarily determine how well you do your job. But it would be nice to see a team looking as smart as the Thunderbirds and flying as well as the Arrows.

[Rude C'man]

Well I have it on good authority that not all the servicemen in flying suits were aircrew. There was a certain waddo Ops O who donned his old suit complete with old sqn badges. He was posing for the public and no doubt the ladies. He even had the cheek to wear his old brevet from the branch he turned his back on .

I do agree, with Eagle, we should be setting an example to the so called cranditz mob, I believe "beyond reproach"should be our stance.
Who said you cant iron flying suits eh? nothing wrong with a cool iron run over the creases . appearence and bearing dear chaps and ladies....

To all those who wish to walk round scruffy go join a civvy airline some of those pilots can make tramps look smart!

To the sado who has to wear a flying suit to look good at an airshow, give it up , you deserted the branch long ago had your brain removed and you now have to pay the price! You know who you are ......

[Scud-U-Like]

Has being 'uniform' ever been a requirement in the RAF, save for the rare ceremonial stuff? Stick your head through the door of any section on an RAF station and you'll have a job finding two persons dressed alike. Come to think of it, at the moment, you'll have a job finding two persons, but that's another story.

Whatever the regulations, and despite the best efforts of the SWO, you will never prevent people from following the prevailing fashions and trends. Have a look at a group photograph of RAF personnel, in uniform, from any decade since WW2. Notwithstanding any changes to uniform patterns (and, God knows, there have been few enough of those), you'll be able to name the decade, simply by looking at the people (their haircuts, spectacles etc). There is no excuse for scruffiness, but 'uniformity' is constantly evolving.

[StopStart]

I'm sorry, I'm clearly not paying enough attention to this ferocious debate. :hmm:

As far as my interest will allow, I gather my mick-taking of an internet bunfight over flying suits, sunglasses and a general decline standards in the RAF is in fact indicative of said decline and of a precocious, childish attitude in general?

Furthermore, the fact that we haven't all resigned over, say, the poor quality of aircrew sunglasses proves that we are all in fact part of the problem?

Blimey. And there was me going to wash the car when in fact there are such great wrongs to be righted.
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/ogo.gif

I do think that perhaps you are reading a bit too much into some gibberish posted on an internet site, old fruit.

PS. As for enjoying my day, I always do cos I've got a rather good job :D Sorry to hear we're losing your vote though.....
:ok:

[Vortex what...ouch!]

;) :ok: SS. A sense of humour at last.

Glad to see you are enjoying your day.:}

[blaireau]

RAF "uniforms" were a constant source of amusement to the RN in my day.
At stand easy on board the Ark, as a joke one day, all the RAF guys turned up in different kit.
Shorts with SS shirt and bundoo boots.
Ditto with black shoes.
No 5's
Long sleeve shirt long trousers black shoes
Ditto with bundoo boots
The two above with SS shirts
Plus other combinations all apparently acceptable in various places around the globe.

Our only commonality was the crap flying gear we all suffered with.

[jayteeto]

Flyboy007 read my post properly. IDO wear Oakleys and roll my sleeves up and yes it is comfortable. What I said was hands in pockets and looking scruffy was not on. I agree with you.....

[high spirits]

Rude c'man,
Get a life.... iron a flying suit? Not until the hole in my a**e grows over. To the muppet who posted this thread. Some aircrew will look scruffy whatever they are dressed in. They are (mostly)human. To smoke in a flying suit has never been against QRs. To roll ones sleeves up is likewise not illegal (otherwise arrest the blunty fraternity in spades). I suppose you will be advocating tidying up the crewroom next! Shiny boots are happy boots......

[Tiger_mate]

Who said you cant iron flying suits eh? nothing wrong with a cool iron run over the creases .

The "Care" instructions inside the flying suit along with "Do not starch" oh and dont tumble dry, I thought mine had shrunk!

.....and before someone else says it, not I have not got larger!!

I think that the aeroplane tyres should have some shiney stuff painted on them an Michelin highlighted in white. Some US style 50s white rings on them would look a treat, and Elvis was there at Waddington.

Any naked UAS chicks at this years event then? Was last year :ok:

SG You should be ashamed of yourself, what are you on!

[CDM]

I thought the RAAF took the prize for being the most anally retentive wrt. wearing flying suits, badges etc. Ok You guys win!

[saudipc-9]

Interesting that Eagle 270 started this thread, but has not been back to offer up any more thoughts regarding holding of hands and sunglasses!!

[BEagle]

OK then, to summarise:

Nothing wrong with wearing clean flying suits in public, as long as you don't look like a Christmas tree covered in silly badges. Just one per sleeve.

The old RAF sunglasses were fine - don't know what the new ones are like but if they're anything like the style of the 'corrective flying spectacles', then it's hardly surprising that people wear their own. 'Military' style RayBan aviators or Oakleys are probably fine - but some garish Gino Fellatio poseur's killer blade-shades would be out of place in my view.

Sleeves rolled-up? Not 'cool' - just looks scruffy and working-class. So if that's how you want to be perceived, then that's up to you.

As for washing a flying suit - it's not a 'flight suit' by the way unless it's some Spam thing - the old Cyprus APC trick was to wear it in the shower and wash it, then take it off and wash yourself normally. Hang it out on the 'Animal House' balcony and it would be dry again before the first jug of brandy sour had been quaffed...

And if someone in civilian clothes suggests to you that your appearance is inappropriate in the public eye, it might be that he's a senior officer. So perhaps it isn't a bright idea to tell him to ram it......

[witchdoctor]

Ah ha!

It makes you look working class!

So, it is really just all about snobbery and the great British class sysytem.

Just remember Lord Plonker, it is the working class that attend your airshows and pay your wages (the rich are too busy paying accountants to find loopholes to get out of paying anything to bother).

Back to the original thread - joe public doesn't give a toss. He's there to watch the show, same as he doesn't go to Tescos and check everything is filled, faced and in date. Only anally retentive billy no-mates fill their lives with such trivial pointless crap.

[BEagle]

Perhaps.

Go sing the Internationale.


For really pointless snobbery, I was once told that it "wasn't done" to roll ones sleeves up beyond the elbow. Why? Because that's what labourers did as they needed to have freedom of arm movement when wielding a pick and shovel (whatever those might be). Whereas a gentleman might roll up his sleeves by no more than two folds.... Honest - we really were taught such things once.

[jumpseater]

So erm where do short sleeved shirts fit in amongst all this then?

[BEagle]

Probably a different issue. In any case, we don't have short-sleeved flying suits....

Why is it that Yanks wear ties with short-sleeved shirts? No-one else does!

[PlasticCabDriver]

Vortex what...ouch!

If much money was spent redesigning a flight suit and the only change was its colour what have those complaining done about it? Surely these people who worked on it are accountable.

Accountable? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Who are you kidding? Got promoted out of it more likely

I read the complaints about the knife something like a year or so ago. Who has actually attempted to get the system to change it?

Get the system to change it? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Haven't laughed so much in ages!

Thanks whoever you are!

[MajorMadMax]

PCD

Me too, this thread is a riot!

Speaking of uniform debaucheries, the US Air Force is designing its own unique Battle Dress Uniforms, or BDUs as we call them (the camouflage ones)...
A fit and wear test will determine the best direction to respond to Air Force needs for a 21st century utility uniform. This wear test usually lasts between six months to one year but can be extended based upon the complexity of the uniform and feedback from the wear testers. Positive and negative feedback is collected to ensure necessary improvements are made to the uniform or item before any decision is made to adopt it or not.
Rumor has it that the new colors will be blue and gray(!), according to Air Force Times (our service tabloid). According to an official USAF statement, "The Air Force is considering an Air Force-distinctive uniform to replace the current BDU."

I am sure it will look great, feel great, and make us the envy of the entire world! :ok:

Cheers! M2

[mutleyfour]

Where the hell did all this "civvies dont give a monkey's" come from...did anybody stop to ask the paying public at Waddington?

I can't vouch for "the Civvies" but I can say that I wasnt impressed to see all and sundry that could get a growbag had, and was wearing it like a god etc!!! I even have to admit to seeing several E3 crew changing badges on cue signals etc..

I walked past the Helicopter statics to see a bunch of UAS looking like a bunch of wasters..

The smartest bunch I saw were the ATC who were proudly marching around,,,though god knows why with the examples that were set by the serving members...

[Fortyodd]

FWIW, I was working at Waddington for the whole weekend and have to agree that -
1. The F18, SU26 and both Lynx displays were excellent - (The Back Flip always has what's left of my hair stood on end!):D
2. The standards of dress and behaviour of the UAS and Cranditz types did the image of the RAF no favours at all.

Thanks to all those who worked hard to ensure a successful show.

[Eagle 270]

Well, it's nice to see a bit of healthy debate for once!

Just to clarify a couple of things;

I don't object to the wearing of sunglasses with uniform. As Beagle pointed out, as long as they are not of the outrageously flash variety, that’s fine. What I disagree with is the wearing of them on top of the head in a 'boy band fashion' when not using them as designed.

I would be the first to admit that our current flying suits are not the smartest/most practical/ideal bit of kit on the inventory but it is uniform. If some of you feel you do not need to maintain even the most basic of military bearing, especially in the public eye, then may I suggest you change career and resign you commission. It's called setting an example. Can't really blame the Cadet O's for their turnout.

Finally, I must praise the majority of RAF Waddington and visiting crews for throwing a top event. I felt it was the few that let the side down.

PS For the SD retentive, this is a BB, not a draft to Parliament!

[Zlin526]

As a civvie pilot who doesn't give a $hite what I wear at an Air Display, I think the new RAF flying suits look rather nice. Anybody want to donate one for 'Trial purposes'?

[flyboy007]

Vortex, Vortex Vortex.

If only you knew.

The rest, Don't think anyone here is saying we should go out and look scruffy, just that we don't think wearing non-issue sunglasses and rolling up sleeves is not scruffy. Obviously we're all wrong, and about two of you are right! Oh well, best I go and starch my flying suit before tomorrow.

Have a good weekend

ps.

Jayteeto, Apologies me old son. Right you are; obviously couldn't see it properly for steam in my eyes!

[ShyTorque]

Next year I'm going to wear my Dayglo orange flying suit, Chinese rank insignia, my 3 different pilot's brevets, medals and boy scout badges.

Oh yes, and my Foster Grants and that old RAF chipbag hat. And that spare pair of desert boots I bought in the NAAFI at Aldergrove. No, I don't know why they sell them there either.

That should show those UAS upstarts a thing or two......:ok:

Roll the sleeves up? No! Good grief man, we have to have to set standards, you know!

[RubiC Cube]

Just a minor point, but unless the dress regs have changed, you are not allowed to wear sunglasses with uniform. The aircrew issue ones are for use in the cockpit.

But there again, my eyes have always been susceptible to strong sunlight and some rules are there to be broken!

[Troy McLure]

It is an extremely bright and sunny day. Do I:

a. Slavishly adhere to even the most obscure dress regs and walk around all day squinting into the sun looking like I'm turning Japanese and possibly damaging my eyesight?

or

b. Wear a pair of sunglasses, look cool, and not walk around all day squinting into the sun looking like I'm turning Japanese etc?

Guidance of wise men, obedience of fools etc etc

[saudipc-9]

If that person in civilian clothes is a senior officer then he/she should identify themselves as such. If inappropriate behaviour/dress is observed, then that officer should take names and do something about it. Rather that than just whining about the standard of dress.:{
Sunglasses??? Well honestly, who gives a toss about sunglasses and if they happen to be worn on top of someones head for a few moments? That shows the absolute micro-management, nit-picky, horse manure attitude that has destroyed the character of many air forces around the world. If I have to stand next to my jet for eight to ten hours in the sun, I will wear a good pair of sunglasses and even a non issue hat if I have to.
I suppose eye damage and a self inflicted wound (sunburn) would be much more appealing to the public image.:cool:

[BEagle]

The trick is to have a jet inside which one can have the odd cold one...:ok:

Probably not in the Kingdom though..... :ugh:

[Huron Topp]

Not sure if it still happens or not, what with extreme-PC being the soup-du-jour these days, but in the '80s it was was beer companies that were the major sponsors at Air Shows. If guys are worried about sunglasses and public image, God only knows what the public thought of us walking around with Molson Light hats and zaps!:} And then, retiring to the crew beer tent which was only steps away from the line. Ah, memories...and crashing a wedding reception at the hotel whilst our AC wheezed out a few tunes on his pipes. All to the glee of the bride and groom. Brings a tear to me eyes, it does.:{

[A2QFI]

I don't know if the great public out there cares what the RAF looks like - I don't think the RAF cares what the RAF looks like! On the base where I work, toilets are blocked for weeks on end, the base it littered with untaxed derelict cars, there are heaps of rubble and spoil from uncompleted roadworks, paint is peeling, roofs leak, there doesn't seem to be any budget to fix anything and the only the reason that the whole place doesn't go down the pan is because the pan is blocked!

[saudipc-9]

BEagle,
Very true my friend, very true. Luckily I'm off for two weeks leave back to Canada and plenty of Molson's:ok: :ok:

[BEagle]

Moleskins? Are you serious..??

But there again, after a year or so in the Great Sandtray I guess even Labatts would taste good!

The only 'beer' I can recall from Gulf War One was 'Moussie' (or something like that) - a non-alcoholic brew which wasn't too bad if you cooled it to 1 degree above freezing point. Or 'Swan Light' - equally appealing.

But at a certain desert $hithole where BWoS employed people, there was a horrid brew made from Kaliber, 'Jeddah Gin' and gravy browning (for colour......and taste!). As I recall, Jeddah Gin was made from 5lbs each of potatoes, lemons, oranges and sugar. Plus some yeast - then put in a polythene dustbin with a gallon of water and hidden from the locals until brewed. Allegedly. The resulting brew did the trick for the local BWoS inmates - but meths would probably have been cheaper!

[seafuryfan]

I agree with Damien B, I don't think that the majority of the general public at airshows actually even KNOW what is standard and non-standard about a flying suit wearer, let alone care. There are so many posers/wannabees/spotters etc that non-standard shades, hats on/off, rolled up shirtsleeves will be neither here or there to most. If we're going to keep any sort of standards up, it should be in these departments:

Talking to the public in a friendly, informative manner, not adopting the 'look at me, but don't bother me' attitude, especially those manning the display ac (and I have seen real dedication here e.g. Hawk driver who did an early display and spent the rest of the very hot day in front of his ac, no breaks, no g/cs to help, etc).

Anyone with rank, or who serves on a sqn, GRIPPING posing UAS and Cranwell offenders with a word or two - "Excuse me, can I see your ID please?" always gets the attention (and I think its only a minority, they just get right up our noses and we remember them). IOT/UAS Flt Cdrs pse note.

JHC: Please let us display our military helicopters in public and not cancel our air display bookings because you're afraid it might 'offend' public sensibilities because we were in the Iraq war.

[Fox_4]

Frankly I find it amazing (but not surprising) that some people posting on here should be so ana1 in their views. With all the talk of IOT flt cdrs I am thinking that there is a large pool of wannabe flt cdrs right here!!!!!!

Berate me if Im wrong but most of the young guys at airshows wearing the "non standard" but effective eyewear, with their flying suit sleeves rolled up, are doing exactly what is expected of them nowadays. Getting out in the public eye and talking to joe public in a down to earth manner!!! Are we struggling with retention and recruitment?

Maybe they volunteered to help out (in the hope of pulling a fit bird) or maybe they were volunteered but they were there. How many times do you see the more experienced guys standing by the statics. Not much, but probably coz they have done it when they were young. I would be willing to bet that the reasons were much the same then but that is quickly forgotten by some.

Beagle Im surprised with some of your comments, maybe the time spent in blues at BZN is getting to you.

Im not surprised in the slightest that we strut about airshows with a bit of swagger, after all we do fly fast jets (and other stuff). If we didnt have a bit of self confidence and pride then we probably would not have got where we are. Making the issue kit look good is just an aside. Even if you do have to accessorize with Mr Oakley.

Enjoy the rest of the airshow season. May all of them be sunny enough for Oakleys and rolled up sleeves. :cool:

I cant believe I replied to this! Must go and iron creases into my flight suit. After I pluck the flying pig out of my ar*e.

[Eagle 270]

Is it not too much to ask that members of the Air Force on public display have just a little bit of personal pride? It's not a case of 'the civvies don't give a stuff'.
May I mention it is not the general variety of non-issue specs that are worn that concerns me, but the general basic turnout of our servicemen. I suggest any of you who disagree with this are perhaps the types who have no idea how important individual discipline is, even in this day and age.
Is it fashionable to look like a shower? Obviously, by some of the posts on here.

We don't require guardsman like knife-edges in flying suits, just remove the creases when you get it back from the sqippers! I saw some of the spotters with better turned out growbags!

Day one, week one. Why put your hands in your pockets? It just looks scruffy.

If you wish to smoke in public, in uniform, join the Dutch Air Force. Is that too much too ask?

I say again; if you don't have the capacity to uphold the most basic military traditions, without dripping, move along to civvy street.

[Huron Topp]

A few years ago the Yanks came out with a suit with sewn-in creases and pleats at the waist. Although johnny public may have thought them spiffy, the boys soon dubbed them f@g bags. Needless to say, they didn't last long and now swamp the surplus stores.

[Beeayeate]

Reading the thread I get the impression that non-issue sunglasses are the root of all evil - why? This was always the case, even when the RAF had more than 5 Canberrsa and many exotic places to fly them to - same with bondo boots, shreddies and the black shoes (used to wear black Doc Martens as did around 90% of ground crew in those days.) Did anybody check to see if regulation drawers cellular were being worn?

And the wearing of flying suits in *public* . . . that was always the case as well. Although they were a tasteful blue in those days, not covered in *zaps* and worn with a peaked cap.

Nothing really changes does it, just the colour of the kit and where zaps are stuck - used to be the kites!

Regarding the perceptions of the public however, that's a different kettle of things. DamienB, Seafuryfan and others have said the the public (at RAF airshows) either doesn't give a toss or that they are generally uninformed or that the *relaxed* look is beneficial. In their world this may be the case, but at Waddo, a goodly percentage of that *public* were ex-RAF (or other service) - and all these guys would have *cared* I bet. Talked with several *Cranwell* types and found them pleasant blokes, and quite friendly and talkative when they found out I, and others, were ex-mob. No *scruffiness* apparent either.

I saw, met and talked with many, many older guys at Waddo though, confess to being one of them myself. A surprising number of people at such shows are there for a nostalgia trip. For example, at the Canberra Assoc enclosure a great many ex-CanMen of all ranks up to ex-AVM had a great day, and we were joined by the 44 Sqd reunion blokes and blokesses with similar range of ranks. The biggest complaint about the modern RAF was not people wandering around in flying suits, nor was it smoking, sunglasses or slouching, it was the general dismay at seeing serving RAF men and women wandering about disguised at bits of forest! It must be hard to look *smart* when dressed in a bit of camouflage netting.

All in all, the RAF did an outstanding job of organisation at Waddo, they always do, and their representatives of all ranks were, as usual, polite and gentlemanly (ie, prepared to *listen* to old codgers).


PS, as my posts always seem to end a thread I'd get yer replies in sharpish. :cool: :ok:

[exUASstude]

OK as a UAS stude who has just graduated and was present at the airshow I figured I should reply.

Firstly, on the issue of sleeves rolled up. Our boss allows it, and we take our que from him. Anyone at the show would know how searingly hot it was, and I believe most of the public would not have thought the sleeves rolled up was scruffy, more practical.

Secondly, we as UAS studes are not issued sunglasses therefore we wear our own, if they are oakleys then so be it, they were necessary if you wanted to be able to see on the Sunday!

I fully agree on the hands in pockets looks scruffy, and I asure you all the students who did this were told to get their act together.

Some people complained about us posing near aircraft. For those who worked at the show you would know that we volunteered to assist with security as the organisers were short and our job was to stop people crossing the barriers which we did. As the aircrew were with their own aircraft we chatted to them, and to the public. Someone in civvies came to talk to me who I believe was an RAF officer. He was attempting to catch us out by asking us questions about the aircraft we were near, and being quite rude in the process. As volunteers we told people what we could about the aircraft whilst the crews were away in a polite manner and 99% of the public we spoke to were very interested and chatted happily with no complaints.

In the end I believe people come to these airshows to watch the displays and have an enjoyable day out, and are more interested in what we do. As for the UAS bashing, I assure you all of the other crews from all nations had badges, sunglasses etc. We also all had a cracking time at the party, and behaved no different from anyone else there, a fantastic end to a good flying weekend.

[soddim]

exUASstude - good on yer!

Now get in the air force and change it so that they spend more time discussing equipment and tactics and less time discussing what to wear!

[Not on Hercs]

Been there, seen it, got the T shirt, starred in the recruitment video! Hands metaphorically removed at the wrists for pocket billiards years ago (last Purple to graduate Henlow circa '75) and still have strong feelings for uniform code, BUT,,,,I've come to terms with the new-look RAF. The response by ex-UAS is right.

As a serving officer of over 30 years, operational in several theatres but now in an instructional capacity, I can't get issue sun glasses or even another replacement flying suit from stores to replace one of mine in for essential maintenance , only the SE spare. Therefore if I had to represent the Service in any flying capacity at a public gathering I'd look like the proverbial "sack of **** "in the patched unit spare! God forbid any senior officer in civilian clothes dare try to inform me of my dress - both barrels discharged immediately.

Facts require establishing before taking the case to court or else the case falls apart. "Gilbert Blades"

[Argus]

On reading this thread, I was prompted to recall an incident from the halcyon days of naval aviation in the late 1960s.

It was one of those exercises designed to convince the hoi polloi that British reinforcements could be deployed to SE Asia at short notice to supplement the then 28th Commonwealth Brigade. We flew Wessex 5's from HMS ALBION, home ported in Singapore. Our role was to support the Third Commando Brigade, Royal Marines, which in those days was garrisoned in Singapore. Invariably, we were the Orange Force enemy for these exercises, the "friendly forces" being the RAF and ANZUK. Unlike our adversaries, we "lived in the field". Life's little luxuries were hard to come by - no laundry facilities, no field kitchens, no prepared meals - only ration packs, no ablutions, no showers, no toilets, no stewards, no endless changes of clothes, no air conditioned cockpits, no bar, no shops, no ready access to social pursuits etc. etc. For low level ops, we flew in short sleeves to keep cool in the tropical heat and humidity. At night, we descended into jungle clearings using portable 'Grimes' Lights with a consequent increase in heartbeat when the "Bootnecks" would say, "No worries sir, no obstacles within 100 metres of the Tee - trust me". If necessary, we slept in the aircraft and smeared ourselves with "pussers" issue repellent to ward off the mozzies- no Gucci scent there! "Pussers" issue eyewear was useless so we wore non standard sunglasses purchased in Change Alley to guard against the tropical glare. Ah, it was foolish but it was fun!

After about two weeks of exercise flying, we were rotated to a rear area near Gemas, western Malaysia, for a short break. There, in the middle of nowhere, the RAF and Royal Corps of Transport had conspired to erect a tented Officers' Mess complex, complete with a marquee that boasted all home comforts including a bar, ice, starched napkins, a separate toilet/shower block, kitchen, three meals per day menu, armchairs and current editions of the 'Straits Times’. All that was missing was the regimental silver! Officiating over proceedings was a corpulent, florid and terribly blunt group captain who had been deployed from a UK stores depot that stockpiled toilet paper and other stores doubtless essential to the cold war effort. Becoming PMC had to gone to said groupenfuehrer’s head. As befitting a senior grocer, he'd managed to outfit himself in sartorial splendour with knife edge creases in his JGs. He was determined to ensure “proper dress standards” for recalcitrant aircrew, especially those of a dark blue persuasion. He’d produced a set of Mess Rules that stipulated polished shoes, starched jungle greens and a “tone” that he thought was appropriate to an Officers’ Mess. Not having any starched flying suits or the means of polishing scuffed and dusty flying boots, we soon incurred his wrath. We “lowered the tone” of his Mess, and he took great pleasure in telling us so.

To overcome this problem, and being indefatigable naval officers, we constructed a small flagpole from various pieces of wood with a cardboard “tone” pennant. This was placed on the bar. When the PMC arrived, we were able to “raise the tone”. When he left, we “lowered the tone”.

Initially, said groupenfuehrer, as I recall, suffered a fundamental sense of humour failure. However, after some testy exchanges going to the nature of what value he added to the operational rate of effort, he got the message that "all that glisters isn't gold".

"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose"!

[Flap62]

just looks scruffy and working-class

Beagle - I don't know how you manage it. You can make 20 posts full of worthwhile comments, illustrating your many years of experience and then you go and post something that makes you sound like an arrogant, pompous fool.

[SALAD DODGER]

Sorry I have no scanner so cant post it!
Just dug up a photo of my grandfather during the war (not too many miles from Waddo!) sunning himself next to Guy Gibson, both with their sleeves rolled up, no hats one with hands in pockets and the other smoking! Tut tut how working class Beagle!

Later in the War the RAF got its revenge on gramps as he was jailed for 3 days for refusing a Senior Officers order to stop wearing his 100 mission 'lucky' hat that was covered in Brylcream, oil and god knows what else. (He did not stop and went on to win great distinction in the air)

Not trying to make a point, but I do believe that the RAF has everything to be proud of, and in the whole we are juged by our results not our ironing. There may be one or two of us that are a little scruffy, but they all are prepared to put thier lives on the line for thier country just like everyone else in the service. There are very few perks left to those of us that remain, and I hope that all RAF aircrew attending major airshows make the most of it, have fun, look cool as you bloody deserve it, and may not be around next year (Well done for a very hard year)

[Vortex what...ouch!]

While you all calm down you can check out this flight suit. :D

http://www.fundpool.at/fotoaktion/Airpower2003/images/previews/preview669.jpg

And does anybody recognise these gentlemen?

http://www.fundpool.at/fotoaktion/Airpower2003/images/previews/preview19.jpg

[ShyTorque]

Perfectly acceptable, sleeves not rolled up.

And if either of them need some help washing their kit, I volunteer! :ok:

[BEagle]

OK - delete "Working Class".....mainly because there's no such thing! But sleeves rolled up ready for road-digging duty doesn't look good in the public eye, in my opinion. But I've bored you enough about that - there are far more interesting things to consider such as those ladies in flying suits! You can keep the chubby one in the green 'suit', but the lass in blue is very tasty! Proves that the RN has taste - and I 'll even overlook their flying suit sleeves as they're not in public ;)

[Vortex what...ouch!]

More of the same here:

Body painting airshow (http://www.fundpool.at/fotoaktion/Airpower2003/default.htm)

Now I bet that airshow was much more fun than Waddington.:ok:

Now say ahhhhhhh......http://www.fundpool.at/fotoaktion/Airpower2003/images/previews/preview206.jpg

[Huron Topp]

Good Gawd!:eek: There's no air shows like that in my neck of the woods. Almost reminds me of NATO beer calls, from back in the day.:ok:

[orionsbelt]

This sort of rubbish from Senior officers is the main reason I became a civilian.

Did the Patriot Sam that took out the 9 Sqdn Tornado check they were dressed correctly first?.

Did the bullets that killed Cornel H Jones and his boys at Goose Green inspect them first?

Leadership of the highest quality was demonstrated by the Boss of 9 Sqdn and his crews.

I suggest all you Idiots sitting in your safe little holes follow his example and learn the real qualities of an officer and that leading from the front generates honour and respect not nit-picking at the real people who do the job that you clearly are not capable of doing!!!

[northernmonkey]

And the relevance of the above is?

Im almost positive that the round that caught Col 'H' didn't stop to check his kit was in order, it probably assumed that, with him being a Lt Col in a disciplined army.

Self discipline and self pride are both valuable but free of charge, there are rules and codes of dress to be stood by, Im sure Col 'H' would have had something to say from the other side if at the funeral of those who fell if the bearers where turned out in rag order for a public ceremony, as would the queen if trooping the colour was held in tracksuits and pat butcher earrings.

So what is difference between this and members of the forces being turned out in front of the public and by the very nature of the occasion, 'on show'

Like Eagle says, if you want to slob around in front of the public that pay your wages then go and join the cloggy air force.

[Huron Topp]

Easy on, Orion 'ole boy, many if not most here have been there, done that, bought the shirt and got the plaque.

I suggest all you Idiots sitting in your safe little holes follow his example and learn the real qualities of an officer and that leading from the front generates honour and respect not nit-picking at the real people who do the job that you clearly are not capable of doing!!!

[Zoom]

Welcome back, northernmonkey. Thought you'd been frightened off for good.

[northernmonkey]

Nooooooo having been viewing quietly and behaving.

A post like that though was enough to raise a bite and force a reply

Am just picturing the RAF band beating the retreat in a No2 dress, sleeves rolled up and raybans on while hammering out a hit from Destinies child instead of following the military way and being smart, disciplined and well presented for thier public

will now crawl back under my rock (unless anyone wants thier wife taunting):E

[AllTrimDoubt]

Just to nudge this thread away from the sartorial(?) theme, may I just take the opportunity to thank all those involved for making the show/weekend enjoyable for those aircrew attending?

Haven't had access to the internet since arrival from Waddo, so this might be a little tardy, but thanks to those, especially in Aircrew Hosting, who made it such an enjoyable event from my point of view. Flexible enough to cope with changes in plans and transport faffs!. How I wish the RIAT team of organisational buffoons would perform to the same standard!

Cheers guys...see you next year??

:ok: :ok:

[ShyTorque]

Vortex,

Another nice pic! :ok:

I think the paintshop boy is probably thinking:

"Now shall I do the chin with a full set of whiskers, goatee, Hollywood or just leave it Brazilian?"

:D

[MajorMadMax]

And does anybody recognise these gentlemen?

What gentlemen???

Cheers! M2