what are my chances

[russelldav]

hi,

not sure if this is the best place to post this question but here goes...


i will be travelling on my own to YVR sometime next week from LHR. This is after a shuttle down from manchester (which apparantly allows me to checkin for the international flight when i checkin for the shuttle flight).

i was wondering what my chances of getting an upgrade on my ticket are?(currently ecconomy) or second to that booking a seat next to an emergency exit to take advantage of the leg room.

i fly with BA and have seen their online checkin system.

am i best off trying that early in the morning of my departure or pleading with the checkin desk to upgrade me(i know that the online checkin doesnt allow you to upgrade but will using it early inrease my chances of sitting in the one of the emergency exits?). i'm travelling alone & only 17.

any tips from people who've managed it in the past would be greatfully appreciated.

or if any1 inside BA fancies helping me out a PM or email would be fantastic.

thanks...

[Iain]

Pretty much zero! The way you fly first class is by buying a first class ticket - you have to do some serious flying before airlines just give you free upgrades.

[wynned]

Dress in a suit, be the last to check in and say ''i would like to volenteer for upgrade'' its works for me..!

[SQ Fugitive #2]

Don't like your chances

It would be like buying a BMW 318 and on collecting it from the dealer asking if he could upgrade it to a 7 series.:hmm:

[World Traveller]

Nah, at 17 ya perfectly capable of looking after yaself! BA World Traveller is OK. seat back tv's et al, and at least the programming will be British rather than American!

Me thinks IAIN is right, either buy an F-class ticket or fly an outrageous number of miles in F or C every year with BA so that you qualify for space available upgrades with your FF status.

WT
-happy in the back, happier up front :D

[russelldav]

thanks guys,

you've pretty much confirmed what i already thought, but hey - if you don't ask you don't get!

cheers

[Globaliser]

If you're on a single ticket MAN-LHR-YVR, you should be able to check in for both flights online 24 hours before your MAN-LHR, if you are an Executive Club member. Some people report that this gets brilliant seats. My experience is that sometimes you do, and sometimes the full seating chart hasn't been released at -24 hours.

You probably won't get exit row seats online, because they usually want to see you in person before allocating them. They are worth asking for. But there is a school of thought that if you ask BA for an upgrade you diminish your chances of getting one.

[russelldav]

i'll be able to book online 12 hours pre-flight, but obviously have to do it seperately for each flight.

im not bothered for teh LHR transfer, only the international.

i presume, like you say, that the exit seats wont appear on the online-checkin area, but will the seats with extra room that are not next to an exit be on there? ive heard that on 747 400s there are seats near 'bulkheads' or somehting, with added room.

last time i was on a 747 i wasnt aware of such seats and so didnt look to see what they're like.

[PAXboy]

Each carrier configs the cabin to their own style. Within a fleet, different a/c of the same type and model may have different interiors, depending upon when they were ordered and when they refurbish. A/c may be changed minutes before boarding due to technical problems, or delayed of inbound. Consequently, almost impossible to know in advance.

I usually avoid the bulkhead rows - as that is where they put the cots with the babies. :eek:

[Xenia]

I can't believe at 17 you could be bother on getting an upgrade! (new generations?) http://utenti.lycos.it/faccedainternet/faccine/confused/scratchchin.gif
Just seat back and relax and don't start to create bad habits that will stay with you for your whole life :mad:

Happy landings http://utenti.lycos.it/faccedainternet/faccine/kaos/u-chu.gif

[Globaliser]

It sounds like you're not a member of the Executive Club. Advice - join it this weekend. On 1 July the rules will change so that you will have to fly one full(er) fare economy (or higher) sector just to be able to join.

As an Executive Club member, you will be able to check in online 24 hours ahead instead of 12.

To see the seating configuration for your flight before check in opens, go to www.seatmap.com and put in all your flight details. (Date, airline, flight number, class - Y will do for the main economy cabin - origin and destination airport (not city) codes. The system won't work unless you put in all the details.) Between this and what's on the airline website, this should point you in the direction of the seats you want.

[cossack]

When I left the UK to come to Toronto in May, I thought I'd use up all my Airmiles and go Club. So I book the Club ticket one way and its 3000 miles less than advertised. That was the first bonus.

I then checked in online the morning of the flight and picked 60K upstairs, front row. I'm dressed in jeans and a T-shirt and when I arrive at the gate I'm told that I have a new seat allocation. "******" thinks I. "It's 1A" she says. "Thank you very much" says I, trying very hard not to grin too much.

I am not a member of the Executive Club, rarely fly BA and didn't ask for an upgrade (why would I have?). Make of that what you will. I guess it was my lucky day.

[russelldav]

thanks guys, especialyl globaliser, i'd been using seatmap before, but hadnt managed to grab results because of the missing 'class' data.

unfortunately though i cannot benefit from a furhter 12 hours of online checkin though, under BA's terms and conditions:

3.1 Individuals who are 18 years of age or over may apply for membership provided they have taken one Tier Points eligible flight sector within the 3 month period prior to the date their application is received by British Airways.

which i don't meet :*

Xenia - when do you suppose is a suitable age to be eligable for an upgrade then? i might only be 17 but so what! i'm 6'4 and would obviously prefer a larger seat such as those found with a club world

incidentally a friend who made the same journey last week was automatically upgraded on the pretence that she was able to checkin for the international flight some hours before the majority of passengers even arrived at heathrow, so maybe that will help who knows.

would you advise grabbing a decent seat using BA's online checkin before hand? or just turning up and seeing what they offer. presumeably they'll know the aircraft layout and be able to give me a seat with extended leg room if an upgrade is available (and at the moment, i dont plan to ask

[Globaliser]

russelldav:
unfortunately though i cannot benefit from a furhter 12 hours of online checkin though, under BA's terms and conditions:

3.1 Individuals who are 18 years of age or over may apply for membership provided they have taken one Tier Points eligible flight sector within the 3 month period prior to the date their application is received by British Airways.

which i don't meetNo, you're looking at the new terms and conditions of the Executive Club, which do not come into force until 1 July, ie Tuesday. The current 3.1 reads:-3.1 Individuals with a resident address in the Territory, which must be their preferred mailing address can, if 18 years of age or over, apply for Membership.I joined up a friend online yesterday (immediately after posting on this thread, as it happens). It took 30 seconds and I got a membership number back immediately on screen.

While one must not encourage those who are too young from signing up to the Exec Club, it is an undeniable fact that the basic required details in the form did not include age, although there is an optional request for date of birth and an equally optional request for passport details.

[Xenia]

You are just out of the age of being an UM :oh: :* ....
If you want to fly in a better class, simple .... pay for it! :E
No offence to you or to anyone ... but ... do you ever think about the poor check in staff? :confused:
Every day they have to deal with hundred people asking for an upgrade!!! must be frustrating!!!! :mad:

[knobbygb]

would you advise grabbing a decent seat using BA's online checkin before hand? or just turning up and seeing what they offer
I really wouldn't risk just 'turning up' - after all, a single traveller is an ideal way to fill up all those middle, non-aisle seats without splitting up families :eek:

Definatley check in online 12 hours before the flight - you'll probably find you already have a seat allocated, which may be perfectly acceptable. If not, simply chose a new one. Be aware though that this allocation isn't set in concrete - if they decide to move you later, that's just unfortunate.

Just in case you're not familiar, the online checkin system is very easy - but make sure you have your 6 letter locator code to hand as well as the flight details. You get a seat map with a picture of where you're currently allocated, and just click on which ever empty seat takes your fancy. On a longhaul, I'd personally recommend an aisle seat rather than window, but thats personal choice.

[Gaza]

[RANT ON] As someone who pays for Business Class and very occasionally First Class I get pissed off when people pay £200 and expect/hope to get an upgrade. If you want to fly in Business or First then bloody well pay for it!! [RANT OFF]:mad: :mad:

Now that I am off my soapbox I'll give you some advice.

1. As Globaliser told you, EC membership would have been available to you if you had signed up before today - 1st July.

2. On line check-in DOES allow you to book bulhead and Emergengy exits, although these are no gaurenteed and BA reserve the right to reallocate them.

3. If both your flights are on the same PNR then you do not need to check-in for each idividually. For example: A couple of months ago I flew EDI-LHR-DEN on a Saturday. MY EDI flight departed at 10:15 and arrived at 11:45. My LHR-DEN didn't leave until 15:25. For those pax flying LHR-DEN OLCI opened at 15:25 on the Friday. For me OLCI opened for both EDI-LHR and LHR-DEN at 10:15 on the Friday. I was able to get the good seats (in Business) 5 hours and 10 minutes before pax departing London.

4. I'm sure bealine will confirm, but asking for an upgrade is likely to have the exact opposite effect.

[Xenia]

http://utenti.lycos.it/faccedainternet/faccine/jump/huepfenicon111.gif
Well said Gaza! It's time to re-educate some pax (hard task) to give both check in staff and us (Cabin Crew) a break with the never endless upgrade story! http://utenti.lycos.it/faccedainternet/faccine/mad/icon_pissed.gif
I particulary hate it when some pax try to fool you and expect (pretend) an upgrade on board! http://utenti.lycos.it/faccedainternet/faccine/mad/11zpissed.gif
It doesn't work with me .... please make yourself comfortable on the proprer side of the courtain luv!!! http://utenti.lycos.it/faccedainternet/faccine/mad/force96.gif

[Avman]

But, then again Xenia, why shouldn't someone who paid xxx amount of $$$ get an upgrade (if Y is full) rather than a free loading employee?

[Gaza]

But, then again Xenia, why shouldn't someone who paid xxx amount of $$$ get an upgrade (if Y is full) rather than a free loading employee?

It's called a "perk of the job." The airline industry is different from any other. If you work in Telecoms you get cheap calls. If you work in retail you get discount. If you work in an airline you get an upgrade if it is going. What is wrong with that?

[Sharjah Night Shift]

It's called a "perk of the job." The airline industry is different from any other. If you work in Telecoms you get cheap calls.

I work in Telecomms and I don't get cheap calls.

[Avman]

Gaza,

I’m playing Devil’s advocate. In fact I have enjoyed the joys (and tribulations) of rebate travel for more than thirty odd years and enjoyed countless upgrades to Business and First. But, objectively speaking, isn’t the perk of cheap or even free travel not sufficient? Is it right that staff travelling on rebate/free tickets are upgraded ahead of and at the expense of fare-paying punters who, after all, pay their salaries and subsidise their rebate travel facilities? Does it not make more commercial sense and good PR to upgrade deserving fare-paying pax from Y to C and free the Y seats for the rebate travellers? I think it’s a little hypocritical to berate fare-paying pax looking for the opportunity of an upgrade whilst in the same breath suggesting that staff should enjoy the perks of cheap travel AND all the luxuries of Business/First Class. :E

[Bealzebub]

No Avman it isn't.

First and Business class seats are premium products. They cost a lot of money to produce and to operate. If they sell then the flight may operate at a higher profit margin. If they are given away the exercise is usually futile. Many "executive card" passengers have got wise to certain airlines past practices of upgrading "members" travelling on economy tickets to a higher class. In turn those same airlines are questioning the viability of this practice. Why pay for a product if the airline is prepared to give it away.

Staff passengers are only ever upgraded if space is available. It is usually a condition of their employment that they refrain from discussing their discounted or upgraded status with fare paying passengers. They are subject to a dress code. They are subject to disciplinary control from the employing airline. They are not usually "awed" by an environment in which they spend the greater part of their working lives. They also enable the airline to display a full premium cabin to potential future travellers. Upgraded passengers are not subject to any of these constraints and are are more likely to irritate passengers who have paid a premium fare by sharing knowledge of their good fortune.

There are clearly times when it is in an airlines interest to offer certain passengers upgrades ( overbooking, technical problems such as broken seats etc ), but it is not advantageous to give the product to anybody who simply asks for it. If they pay the premium they will most certainly take priority. Simply paying "a fare" does not afford a passenger any priority to otherwise empty premium seats except as otherwise stated. It doesn't matter whose wages those passengers fares contribute to. If the product operates at a loss it contributes nothing and actually places pressure on the whole profit base.

Still I like the concept. The next time I am in waitrose I will try suggesting that I get the same discount the staff get after all I contribute to their wages as well. Hmmm no maybe not !

[Avman]

I hear what you're saying Bealzebub. However, I disagree with your logic using the Waitrose example. The waitress may get a staff discount but she will receive the same standard service. In our industry we receive a substantial discount and, more often than not, receive (some even expect) a Premium service!

[Bealzebub]

Yes avman but that is because you are confusing "service" and "product". In this case the product may include better service but premium class travel is a distinctly different product.
If you are going to sell a premium product you need to do so at a higher price otherwise you may as well stick to the basic product ( economy in this case). If you are compelled to give the product away in certain circumstances then it is better to do so to staff or where it overcomes another greater problem as described.

Airlines want their customers to pay a premium price for the premium product. Their aim is to fill those cabins with premium fare paying customers. Where staff passengers sit is by and large irrelevant. However if a premium cabin is not full, using staff to give the impression that it is may well suit the airlines commercial department ( and often does).

I suspect there are many industries where staff receive a substantial discount on the product and also receive or ( expect ) better service. That is a benefit of knowing the system and the people employed in it. I am sure if I work for a bank I might get a good discount on their mortgage or loan products. I also suspect my application may be processed as a priority. It wouldn't surprise me if some hotel staff receive discounts on rooms and also get free upgrades to better quality room types if available. The same with some car hire company employees etc.

Concorde is a classic example. This was a premium product that was failing. Not enough full fare customers. Some passengers were upgraded from other classes of travel in an attempt to promote the product but that still failed to generate enough new business. It may even have had a negative effect on full fare paying customers who wondered why they had to pay a premium fare when others were being given the product for a lesser price.
Staff were offered this product at a very low price because again it doesn't really matter where you put staff if you want to utilise them to increase your load factors and give the impression of a more in demand product without offending those who have paid for the product.

In summary what you give to your staff is irrelevant. The business survives or dies on the revenue you generate from selling products at the right price to your customers.

(P.S Waitrose is a supermarket. Waitresses ?)

[Avman]

:8 :D I had to laugh at the Waitrose thing. Not being a UK resident for some reason I’d got it in my mind that it was some sort of family restaurant chain. Well, I was close!

Still playing Devil’s advocate, I would argue that by upgrading suitable Y pax instead of staff (at times when upgrades become necessary), the airline has the opportunity to promote their premium product and thus generate potential future sources of premium revenue. I don’t think that load factors in C (artificially pumped up with staff) will convince the punter travelling Y that he’s travelling in the wrong class. However, if he/she is lucky enough to get an upgrade to C and experience the product, he/she may opt to purchase a C class ticket on future trips. With perhaps few exceptions (and I’m one*) that won’t be the case with staff. If the promotion failed with Concorde it’s because that product is just simply way over-priced in the current economic climate. The same goes for Business Class. I think there is still a market for premium travelers but they now want value for money and many carriers fail in that respect.

* Yes, these days I actually pay for Business Class seats when travelling long haul because Mrs Avwoman and I are too old now to put up with the hassle of rebate travel - and potentially cramped conditions (if no upgrade) on long sectors. I do however, shop around for the cheapest (value-for-money) deals with reputable carriers.

[Globaliser]

That's actually an argument for upgrading those customers who are apparently new to your airline, not those who are already regulars and have "form" of buying cheap tickets from you. If you upgrade the regulars on cheap tickets, it is highly arguable that you are merely reinforcing their low-spending habits by giving them more than they have paid for. Some carriers on the other side of the wet bit appear to be finding that this is very costly in terms of premium fares not sold (although they also have a problem differentiating between a "premium fare" and a "total rip off").

[PAXboy]

Global: (although they also have a problem differentiating between a "premium fare" and a "total rip off"). snicker :p

From spending time as pax in both Biz and Eco, as both corporate paid and self paid (again, in both) I see no evidence that upgrading encourages people to buy the premium cabin next time.

Friends of mine who have travelled a fair amount and have the money to pay for (say) World Traveller Plus - but they only pay for Y. On one occasion they were upgraded long haul to WTP. Were they impressed? Not a bit. In fact it reinforced for them that they would not pay for WTP!!

Parents of another friend were going to Israel (I think) on a charter and paid for the premium cabin. Which is mainly space, not service, I gather. They said, "Well it was quite roomy but we didn't think it was worth it and won't do it again."

Conversely, I pay for Premium Economy on my own account and do consider it worth the money - who is to say?

If I was a carrier - I would give very few upgrades. If folks always pay Y, then that is what they can afford or want.

The people to try and locate, I should think, are those who regularly travel with you but have to be in Y, as their companies will not pay for them to sit further forward. These are folk who have to be on your plane and can become big fans when treated right. Locating them could be difficult!

[Final 3 Greens]

Xenia

I completely agree with you. I have never been offered and upgrade nor sought one.

Over the years, I've been lucky enough to fly in F and J as well as M and I wonder how many other business are expected to provide extra free services? Everytime I get a hire car upgrade, I'm sure that it is because they have run out of the one I booked and cannot give me a smaller one!

I fly Y or LCA on sectors less than 4 hours and have a Priority Pass for lounge access, which is worth every penny.

If I want to fly in a higher class, I (or more accurately my client) pays for the privilege.

To be fair to Russell, I think that he is seeking more legroom here and if he is tall, I don't blame him YVR is a bit of a haul.