Easy Interception

[L4H]

21st June about 07.30Z easyjet call sign EZ7MS was intercepted over Western Germany by two fighters. Conversation on 121.5 Maastricht Control explaining to Australian sounding pilot that he was being intercepted by two fighters because there had been no contact with ATC for over 30 mins. The EZ said that he woundered why it had been quiet, the reply was "what do expect after Sept 11th"

[Knold]

How about a coherent story?

[jungly]

Begs the question.......

If they could talk to him on 121.5, why did they not do that in the first place rather than launching 2 fighters?

:)

[Colonel Klink]

A major over reaction. The guy was flying in from Athens, why would any hijackers wait nearly three hours before doing anything?

[maxy101]

A major overreaction maybe, but I gather that it is an SOP in these interesting times. Perhaps we should be more concerned if the radios go quiet for more than a few minutes at a time?

[Hwel]

Have you flown at night recently maxy, its not unusual to hear nothing for 20 mins.

[ZRH]

The nights are certainly quiet, but at 0730Z it smokes on most sectors. Sure we try calling somebody on 121,5 if he doesnt want to chat to us and if that doesnt work, we just watch him cruise by. Its a bit of a hassle if you cant turn one aircraft and end up turning 5 others!!
I remember one instance where the fighters intercepted a private aircraft at F270 who hadnt talked to anyone since Maastricht. He was also intercepted by the germans and all the interception didnt help anything. Didnt listen on 121,5 either..wasnt very serious from our point of view.

[maxy101]

Unfortunately I do fly mainly at night. Certainly, what with "sleeping " radios and post 911 fallout, we do try and make sure we transmit or hear something fairly regularly....

[Knold]

"Radio check" --- "Read you five"
"Radio check" --- "Read you five"
"Radio check" --- "Read you five"
"Radio check" --- "Read you five"
"Radio check" --- "Read you five"
"Radio check" --- "Read you five"
"Radio check" --- "Read you five" and so on

[Hand Solo]

Still at least he wasn't in French airspace! Recently one of our crews was in normal radio contact with French ATC and was told he was going to be intercepted whether he liked it or not! They then spent 30 minutes with a French fighter sitting off their wingtip depite their strong protestations to ATC!

[fireflybob]

Rather than "Radio Check" I always prefer "Operations Normal" - just sounds more professional and, hopefully, tells the truth.

[garp]

The incident took place over the Belgian coast. Any pilot flying on a busy week-end through the European airspace for more than 30 minutes and crossing country borders without talking to anybody should know that something's wrong.
We do have quiet periods and I consider a pilot who's making a radio check at such times a professional.

[2 six 4]

A major over reaction. The guy was flying in from Athens, why would any hijackers wait nearly three hours before doing anything?

Major over reaction my a**e !! We try all sorts of ways to contact aircraft out of communication. This guy acted correctly in quickly coming up on 121.5. Believe me each time you fail to contact the appropriate frequency you will be considered to be suspicious immediately.

Very seldom will you be given the luxury of 30 minutes silence before finding company on your wing.

[Lon More]

With 2 six 4 on this
To fly through some of the busiest airspace in the world at that time of the day without R/T contact is evidence of either gross ignorance ( if you believe you're alone in the airspace) or gross stupidity ( if you think it makes no difference)
A call on 121.5 is one of the first things we do, unfortunately the vast majority don't maintain a listening watch.
Since Sep. 11 we are required to advise the Military of anyone in radio failure. They decide whether to intercept or not (from memory, four times in recent months at Maastricht alone)
I understand that the intention is that a bill for the costs entailed is to be presented to the operators.

Lon More, more than just an ATCO

[M.Mouse]

Rather than "Radio Check" I always prefer "Operations Normal" - just sounds more professional and, hopefully, tells the truth.

Which RT manual can I find that in?

I do like to sound professional and I always thought that asking for a radio check was the professional way of checking a radio.

[5milesbaby]

I have to apologise to all pilots who have encountered me during their 'quiet spell' radio checks, as I normally respond 'yup, still with ya' but I think we all know why you do it, and I can get several each day!! As for those that don't maintain a listening watch (ie this thread) then having a military accompanyment is just a consequence you have to live with, after Sept 11th what more would you expect? I have to agree with 2 six 4 also that 30 mins is absurd, anything more than 5 where I am and you better look out more... :uhoh: good luck :ouch:

[Avoiding Action]

Lon More,

Good post. I had heard the same rumour about billing operators from my (military) side of the fence.

For those of you who get a hard-on about this sort of thing, bear in mind that the military are reacting to political (albeit standing) orders. Not many governments could survive if there was an incident and it turned out nothing had been done about it because the Mil were told not to act by the politicians.

Fly safely (and keep talking;) )

AA

[fireflybob]

>Which RT manual can I find that in?<

M.Mouse, thank you for drawing my attention to this terminilogical inexactitude!

You are quite correct - "Operations Normal" is not standard RT and "Radio Check" is.

Long as they don't mind me calling it the "Fox Easy" and the "Nan How" - it reminds me of the halcyon days of being on the flying boats!

[Check 6]

We rarely guard 121.5, but we do guard 243.0.

My question is that when you make a call on 121.5, do you simulcast on 243.0 also as a routine procedure?

Grazie,

[126,7]

Check Six
Nope, we just monitor 121,5. I actually doubt if anybody in our company knows about 243,0.
121,5 is the norm here.

[keithl]

Fireflybob. Don't apologise too quickly!
The phrase is in PANS-ATM (Doc4444) to be used "20 to 40 minutes following the time of last contact" (or QRU)(para 9.2.1.2)

[Flap 5]

243.0 is UHF. Civil aircraft don't carry UHF.

[Check 6]

Well Flap 5, we fly civil aircraft and we do carry UHF comms, TACAN, etc. etc.

But thank you for your "informed" expertise.


:ouch:

[Lon More]

Check 6 i'm not sure if your question was related to pilot or controller.
At EDDY we can "couple" (bandbox to the unwashed) any of the allocated frequencies; so, if required, yes, it is possible.

We've no problems with Radio Checks. I had several last night although there were constantly several aircraft on frequency.

Seem to remember Ops Normal calls being made by the choppers serviing the N. Sea rigs. Also often used by us as a question after a radio failure.

Lon More, more than just an ATCO

[BOAC]

Hello Check 6 - I assume you work VHF also, and I would suggest it might be worth getting 121.5 monitoring as an SOP in normal airways work rather than 243, since I remember that the mil can transmit on that also if necessary? There were occasions in my formation days when one a/c in the group would monitor 243 and another 121.5. Maybe with ?3? boxes/?2 crew? you can set that up?

It may be that My question is that when you make a call on 121.5, do you simulcast on 243.0 also as a routine procedure? is the other way round? ATC comment pse?

[Check 6]

Hi BOAC. We use VHF for most ATC communications, but monitor 243.0. I monitor 121.5 on specific occasions, but not routinely because of radio overload.

ATC'ers, for clarification, in the event that you try to contact an aircraft who does not answer on assigned ATC frequency, when you call on 121.5, are you also transmitting on 243.0?

i.e. do you automatically transmit on both emergency frequencies?

Some countries around the Mediterranean seem to do this because we get called on 243.0 occasionally.

;)

[300-600]

As we are back on the thread...I know quite a few Easyjet pilots and none that would not make a radio call after half an hour.

What I do know is that they are being worked harder than any other airline in the UK and a much more likely scenario is that they had both gone to sleep.

Try shouting!!!

[5milesbaby]

In London Area airspace, 121.5 and 243.0 have 24hr manning by the Distress and Diversion cell based at West Drayton, manned by the Mil. ANY transmissions made will be by them, and probably 'coupled' together as they do have the capacity to do so. However, I couldn't swear this to be true. As civil controllers we could select the frequecies, but cannot remember the last time this was done, and is only for EXTREME emergency cases.

[ZRH]

We monitor 121,5 at various positions, including the supervisor's desk and only broadcast on it when trying to reach somebody. Nobody here monitors 243,0.(maybe the military does, but cant confirm that)
We can if need be couple the frequencies and transmit/receive on any one or four or whatever amount of vhf and uhf freqs. Every night when sectors are closed, we couple the frequency from the closing sector to that sector which is taking the airspace.

[Faire d'income]

I ( normal ops where I have worked ) always monitor 121.5 over the continent of Europe, the North Sea, the Atlantic, Canada ( mandatory ) the Usa and anywhere else I find myself. I never monitor in UK airspace because of the incessant chatter while you are on another busy freq in busy airspace.

I think the place for constant practise pans and QDM,QDM,QDM and requests for info should be on London information not the emergency freq.

[unwiseowl]

Faire comment! with an increasing requirement to monitor 121.5, against a busy ATC freq, it's time practice Pan's were given a discrete frequency.

[MOA]

As a mil driver (large 4 engine maritime thingy), we routinely monitor 243 (requirement for us) and wherever possible 121.5. Relatively easy when transiting to/from our operating area but can be a pain in the @rse when down at LL.

I like the 'radio check on box change' call as we have also been recently bitten by 'sleeping radios'. Can't get the staff these days! Also we put out ops normal calls every hour to the agency we are talking to if 'on task' (no requirement if route flying).

On the practice PAN, the mil use the Practice Emergency Training Frequency wherever possible (UHF) to free up 243. Can't recall if there is a VHF equivalent.

Happy flying

:cool:

PS When do those London control boys and girls breathe?!! All respect, very different from our 'lazy sunny day' Scott Mil workload!

[VectorLine]

Anyone know the reason why a AMM a/c went for over 45 mins without talking to anyone today? Went through Paris, Reims, and London to about LAM at FL340

Cant remember callsign but it was LEMH to EGSH.

Cant believe no 7600 selection nor did French or British mil types bother with an interception.

[Breeze Block]

At 737 cruise speed it would have been an easy interception, but unfortunately, we live in an unsettled time, so it is worth us all trying to be more vigilant on ATC frequencies.

But, an Australian voice on a G reg., aircraft. Very suspicious!

Okay, okay, you had a good rugby team!