BA/AA tie up

[GustyOrange]

Comments in today's newspapers suggest that a deal will be done by the end of the month.

Does anyone know however if the codesharing will extend to regional airports ?

[MissChief]

The deal may indeed be agreed on Jan 29 in Washington; it may then be blocked by Branson in the UK and US courts, simply to protect his own interests. Let's hope not, as Delta and Air France have just tied up a similar deal last week without such interference. Somehow I think Branson has his lawyers at the ready to stop the process until such time as the European legislature prohibits ant bi-lateral agreements.

[Donkey Duke]

I just hope that other airlines are allowed to aquire LHR slots to start up service. With the apparent schedule change going on a BA, there should be enough slots to give other airlines
adequate slot times. I've read that Delta wants to add up to 11 daily roundtrips to LHR, and that NW, CO, and USAir also want access. The only people who do not want this to happen are SCARED of the competition. I am sure that Delta and Air France wouldn't mind if another airline wanted to add flights to CDG. And, even ORY is starting to open up----Easyjet will probably get slots soon. And for the people who say there isn't enough room at LHR---give me a break. With all the open gates that used to be occupied by
BA 744's, there now will be room with their absence. Watch out BA and AA people, before you know it you might see DL 777's, NW D10's, CO 777's, and US A330's on final app over Big Ben.
Remember, caution wake turbulence.

Thanks. Donkey Duke <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[Tandemrotor]

Re "--give me a break. with all the empty gates" blah, blah, blah.

Donkey Duke, you obviously haven't a clue what you are talking about.

All the longhaul routes transferred from LGW to LHR, mean that T4 is creaking at the seams with too many flights to handle, especially around morning rush hour.

Get your facts straight mate, or apply for a job with BA management, you'll fit right in!

[crewrest]

Er, how is any terminal going to cope, I'm sure NW,DL can't just walk in, the place is stuffed

[Roobarb]

Maybe if United is closing stations, they’ll be lots of slots available at LHR.

The competition we’ll take on anyday. It’s our management that’ll kill BA.http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/frust.gif. .http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~stephenbalchin/roofence.jpg

[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: Roobarb ]

[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: Roobarb ]</p>

[Donkey Duke]

Tandemrotor,

Hello mate----airlines like Delta and NW don't need 5am arrivals or during your dwindling . .airline's 8am rushhour---they could easily have a couple slots spread out---landing their 777's or D10's between your huge A319 flights inbound from Berlin and Geneve. BA's schedule is dwindling---. .right--mate? Whether you like it or not, mate,. .if BA and AA want to coordinate schedules, good ole BA will atleast have to give up 9 roundtrip slots a day just to BOS and JFK/EWR. GOT it, mate? Delta, USAir, NW, and CO would like to take you guys on. And don't tell me there is NO MORE ROOM. BA's schedule is sinking fast for. .it's European connections from LHR. And, airlines like Delta would probably use Air France's gates----make's sense---right mate?. .All they need is the slot, which you don't want to give. Oh sure, business passengers wouldn't. .mind going to LGW. If that is true, why does BA. .send 98% of their Carribean flights (except the concorde to Barbados on Sat) from LGW? Hmmmm.. .Sounds like BA sees it as a leisure airport.. .Wut wut? You're wrong. So, let the games begin.

. .Thanks. Donkey Duke <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[timsan]

Who,s mate? your mate, my mate, MARMITE. . . <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

. .Sorry Donkey, its a British thing.

[Donkey Duke]

Lenny,

I thought Mate was an Australian saying?(I loved all of those Crocidile Dundee flicks--those guys are just hillarious down under--I was literally throwing up while I was laughing-----SNAP!!)

Sounds like BA is scared to give up slots.

Cheers! (Now that is a British saying, right?)

Thanks. Donkey Duke <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[Tandemrotor]

Donkey D

Nice one.

There was me thinking all you queezy spams were too scared to go flying at all, never mind to a dangerous continent like Europe.

But then since 86% of you don't even own a passport, I guess you're ignorance of the rest of the planet is vaguely understandable.

I think you will find that the good 'ol U S of A is the home of protectionism as far as dealing with Johny Foreigner is concerned. So I don't think anyone on this side of the 'pond' will be taking any lessons from you.

By the way, you might want to compare the proportion of slots held by BA at LHR, to those of the airlines you mentioned at their 'home' bases. Or indeed Lufthansa at FRA, or Air France at CDG. Do let us know.

Okay Yah!

By the way, how many of your airlines would have survived at all without troughing down those massive government handouts.I imagine with bottomless pockets like that, Delta, USAir, NW, and CO, will never have to worry about competition at all.

[ 22 January 2002: Message edited by: Tandemrotor ]</p>

[Donkey Duke]

Tandemrotor,

Ok, say what? Wut wut? What are you talking about? Testy, aint we? Hey, be nice to Americans! You'd be flying Luftansa now instead of BA if it weren't for us. 86% of us don't have passports? That's news to me. But ofcourse we have a larger population and more diverse landscape in America---so most of us don't need a passport to see new things----and hey, we have TWO Disneylands!!!(Ok,1 Disneyland and 1 Disneyworld). . I think you then rambled something about the proportion of flights BA has at it's main base (LHR) versus the US Majors at their bases. Well. .mate, BA can add as many bloody flights as they want to Atlanta, Detroit, Minneapolis, Newark,. .Pittsburg, Philadelphia, and Cinncinati. Go ahead. Be OUR GUEST. Add flights from Newcastle to Atlanta. Try Bournemouth to Newark. Next try. .Philly to Bristol. I'm sure we wouldn't mind. It's called a "choice."(Something that you guys are afraid of) I am sure the airport authorities. .at any of these US airports would NOT mind BA adding service. The reason BA doesn't try is that. .it doesn't have the feed. Look at Delta at ATL or. .CVG. Delta in ATL has 1000 flights a day(with the connection carriers included). How would Delta do on a pair of ATL-LHR flights? UMMMMMM.... .Very very very well. NW and CO have the same type of feed. BA does not. You are scared.

So, admit it, you are wrong.. .That's ok, I can understand your frustration.. .You feel like your own private little space (LHR). .is getting invaded. Well, if you want that AA/BA. .thing to work, you might have to open up and let. .a few people in. And by the way---I happen to love your country. I've been there many times and the vast majority of the people are really nice. Take a chill pill and look at this reasonably. IF the AA/BA thing goes through, BA. .will be better off. And, if other US carriers. .get access to LHR, they and the business traveler will also be better off. It's a win-win situation.

Thanks. Donkey Duke <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[Andreas in SAF]

Donkey Duke:

Now - if we in the US are all so hot, and are all such sophisticated travelers (who don't need passports), choosing between the 2 Disneys and some other exciting destinations (maybe in the midwest), then why are you so worked up about LHR???

Why don't you just connect back and forth via ATL a thousand times (incl. commuters, your quote), and leave the rest of us alone?

[Tandemrotor]

Okay Donkey D,

It's a wrap.

Neither of us (I guess) will have any influence on whether the AA/BA thing happens or not. It will involve a great deal of horse trading, and almost definitely (If it goes ahead soon) will involve opening up slots at LHR - not such a problem if T5 goes up.

The truth, as said by another, is that the staff at BA know the product is good enough to hold its own against any fair competition, it's the incompetent, bloated, management that will bring this company to its knees!

Incidentally, you are right, the best America can offer the World, probably is two Disneys. Well three if you count Hollywood which continually rewrites history. That's probably where you got the idea that the US came over here and won the war for us. Truth is you wouldn't have been here at all if you had seen Pearl Harbour coming!

See you at LHR

[Magplug]

Donkey Duke,

I have no problem with your logical debate on the trans-atlantic slot saga.

BUT one or two of your comments clearly illustrate the insular, arrogant and complacent attitude of your countrymen that has fostered the kind of hatred that you are finding in certain corners of the world right now.

We all know that you mostly don’t give a toss who you offend. So don’t be surprised if you get treated like mealy-mouthed kids – They exhibit the same traits.

[Donkey Duke]

OUCH!! SNAP!!! I really must have made some people mad! Sheesh. I was just trying to state that I thought it was unfair that BA would not give up a small amount of slots and allow in some competition for the business traveler, while it wanted a hookup with AA that would have controlled 80% of the flights to JFK/BOS. Does that sound unfair to you? This is a rumor board and an opinion board, and I was stating my opinion. .about the BA/AA hookup. Then Tandemrotor, obviously, not American, comes in and BRILIANTLY. .calls Americans SPAMS and states that we don't have very many passports (86% don't have them) and. .says that we pretty much don't have too much culture. Well, if you don't like us, why is this BA/AA thing so important to you? Sounds like BA. .wants OUR Business travelers over here in the States---who pay big bucks to get where THEY want.. .And what about your Concorde service? It's to the States---not Singapore or Sydney---and it's. .not full of Brits only. Face it, you need us.. .Are you making fun of Disneyland? Let me guess, you haven't ever been to the states? We have 50 states---all different and interesting---so some people(I guess a lot) don't need to go anywhere. .else. Are you jeleous? I love the British Isles,. .but after awhile everyone needs to go see something different, and that is why you have a lot of people with passports. But, Tandemrotor,. .you really get defensive about the past (WWII) and the future(LHR). Hey, the US helped you and. .we are all friends, right? Get over it and let some Airlines into LHR. End of argument.

Andreas in SAF----you are a weird one. Ever been to ATL? No? I thought not. I was stating that. .the feed to LHR from ATL would be very good. ATL. .is a lot busier than LHR, and they obviously handle expansion better. And, BA can add service to ATL with no problem. The actual problem that you do not like is that BA is drasticly cutting their own service to intercontinental Europe and won't give up a small percentage of slots into LHR. You know it Andreas in SAF---and I am right.. .Don't be mad-- relax and accept it. Maybe more Americans will get passports and fly to beautiful London (I love London, personally) and see the sights.

Magplug---thanks Dad. You grow up! Look at my arguments and see how Tandemrotor responded. I like when Americans are called Spams! (I have never heard that one before) I didn't say anything wrong or untrue about the British people,. .who I like very much. I just think other airlines should fly into LHR. That is an opinion.. .If you don't like it, read another thread.

Thanks. Donkey Duke <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[Donkey Duke]

OOOPS, now I get it, Andreas in SAF---SAF being Santa Fe, New Mexico. Why do you not care about LHR? Obviously YOU do not work for a MAJOR airline that has a vested interest in flying into LHR. LHR equals money. Right now, Andreas (I feel like a third grade teacher), airlines need money. Green paper. To pay the bills. Santa Fe, you know is expensive (and a very very beautiful place----Tandemrotor--you should come see Santa Fe--it is nice) and you probably need money. Andreas---do you fly? If you fly out of. .Santa Fe you either fly corporate or small cargo.. .Anyways Andreas, LHR is important to Delta, NW, CO and USAir to boost profits. Also, you make fun of ATL and the 1000 connections. Never been. .there, right Andreas? It's actually a very well run airport. The controllers are very good and. .things flow well. It is the busiest airport in the world--a lot busier than SAF. Take care now.

Thanks. Donkey Duke <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[LAVDUMPER]

Yes, Donkey Duke is not particularly articulate...

But he is correct! BA is running scared and highly protective because they know they can't compete with Delta and other cash-rich airlines... If BA is so certain about its "quality" product and its ability to compete, then it wouldn't fight so vigorously against allocating a few slots to Delta and the like. BA is scared... ADMIT it!

Andreas in SAF - you are a joke. Nice dismissive attitude. I am betting the inarticulate Donkey Duke is a major airline pilot and you are not...

Magplug - you are boring us all with your lame GRANDPA attitude. Don't you have an opinion?

Donkey Duke - I hope you don't fly as well as you spell...

Bottom line, BA is scared and refuses to compete. It is time to provide better access to LHR because that is the preferred airport in London. Restricting access is anti-competitive. BA needs to grow up and face the fire - nobody can argue that!!!!!!!!!!!!

. .Cheers

[Raas767]

Lets be clear here.. .If AA/BA goes through the ONLY benefit will be to management and share holders. Customers will have to pay higher fares and employees (pilots) will face loss of flying due to transfer to codeshare partner. BA pilots seem to be concerened that flying will be transfered to AA but historically it has been the other way around.. .We are steadily marching to the drumbeat of monopolization in just about every industrial sector there is. Aviation is no different. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Sky Blue]

Lets not forget that major Airlines either from the US or the UK not only use heathrow but are compelled to do so.

Reasons being due to Heathrow acting as a major connecting hub not only to Europe but also Eastern Europe and the Middle East.

I agree there should be more competition between Airlines from the US with our own Airlines which of course dominate Heathrow.

I do how ever believe for two very large but also two struggling Airlines like BA and AA to survive it is obviuos because of their vast networks they should merge and weather out the storm. I won't create any sort of monopoly but instead create excuses for other Airlines to be able to join the fun.

Finaly this is no need for any of this sort of argument (If thats what you call it) I feel that the UK and the US are two countries with great respect for each other as well as great friendship.

<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

. .SB

[jongar]

I have no issue with LHR being made open to other US players, as long as it is made open to other non us players. I am sure SQ would like a slot or 2 to continue SQ 318/322 on to NYC or ORD. I think the strength of product offered by BA/VS/SQ will beat any effort from the US carriers. The FF programs represent a big threat though. Americans can be and are blinkered by airmiles over service. But i digress. I object to cabotage rights. Why should UA have accees to LHR-GLA if VS cant have access to JFK-SFO ???

. .Jon

[GustyOrange]

Guys,

After all that could anyone answer my original question about the codesharing being extended to regional airports ?

I think if BA could sell seats for example on American's GLA/ORD flights their would ba large increase in Executive Club members using the flights.

Cheers

Gusty.

ps. just to spice things up a little nobody has mentioned the UG governments fly America policy!

[Donkey Duke]

Finally I am being heard. Much thanks to Lavdumper, I think? Hey LAV, any chance I could hire you to proof-read my comments---I've got some extra coins laying around somewhere......

Anyways...I think new competition into LHR would be great. IF Singapore wants to extend a flight. .from Singapore to LHR and on to ORD or JFK--fine.. .Air India does it. Delta and other US majors are. .really going after business travelers from their own "regions" that want to go to LHR instead of. .LGW. I am sure that Delta wouldn't mind getting the high priced business traveler that only wants to fly from JFK-LHR, but also the traveler that. .wants to connect thru ATL and on to Huntsville, Alabama. And same with Northwest--which probably has someone in Lansing, Michigan who wants to have the convienence of LHR. A businessman from . .Singapore who has business in London and Chicago. .might prefer to stay on Singapore Airlines because. .he enjoys their service. (Yes, I know there are Alliances for seemless travel--like Star and Skyteam) The only airline to likely get hurt by this infraction at LHR is BA----and that is why they too will benefit with the award of the AA/BA . .alliance. Whether AA or BA pilots do most of the flying---well, I know the Delta Airline Pilots contract has a limit on INTL codeshares, which might be handy in BA or AA's next pilot contract. .negotiations.

GustyOrange,

I don't see a problem with BA buying seats on AA's GLA-ORD service etc. That is what codesharing is all about, right? I then think you stated something about UA flying inside the UK? Well, I think that is called Cabotage--and I think you said you wanted the UK to have a part of the US flying? Well, some people in Congress believe the same. If that would happen, I am sure. .Easyjet and Ryan would jump at the chance of servicing Chicago and Wichita---but at the same time watch what you ask for. Look at what Southwest (which is the model for Easy and Ryan). .is doing to the US majors. Do you want Southwest. .to take over European Low Fare? Watch it! They would probably kick Easy and Ryan's arses--they have been doing it a lot longer.

Thanks. Donkey Duke <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">