Life in Middle East

[DDDOF]

Hi there, thinking about a contract position in M.E
Just wondering about a few lifestyle questions.
What would the cost of living equate to for normal everyday items food/toiletries/etc.
Do most spouses go along and just live, or is it possible for them to gain employment?
Would they be able to work on my visa, or would they have to get sponsored on their own?
What would be the chance on getting on with an airline, as she has lots of expierence as a CSR with various airlines and computer reservation systems, and even aiport operations(gating etc.)??
Are airline ground staff in the ME require to speak the local language?
What about bringing our dog over, anyone any experience with that???
How are expats treated in the ME now post war??(By the way I'm not American)
Are things realively back to normal??
Thanks for taking the time to read this and respond.

[Loopy]

You may not have enough time to identify your self as none American citizen. All Caucasians are subject to the following risk factors.




http://travel.state.gov/meu_announce.html

http://travel.state.gov/wwc1.html



SAFETY AND SECURITY: Americans in the United Arab Emirates should exercise a high level of security awareness. The Department of State remains concerned about the possibility of terrorist attacks against U.S. citizens and interests throughout the world. Americans should maintain a low profile, vary routes and times for all required travel, and treat mail and packages from unfamiliar sources with caution. In addition, U.S. citizens are urged to avoid contact with any suspicious, unfamiliar objects, and to report the presence of the objects to local authorities. Vehicles should not be left unattended, if at all possible, and should be kept locked at all times. U.S. Government personnel overseas have been advised to take the same precautions. In addition, U.S. Government facilities may temporarily close or suspend public services from time to time as necessary to review their security posture and ensure its adequacy.
Taking photographs of anything that could be perceived as being of military or security interest may result in problems with authorities.

Canadians should evaluate carefully the implications for their security and safety before deciding to travel to Kuwait. Random attacks targeted at western interests, together with heightened tensions throughout the region, put Canadians at greater risk. Canadians should maintain a high level of personal security awareness at all times, as the security situation could deteriorate rapidly without notice. Exercise extreme caution in large gatherings and crowded places, including pedestrian promenades, shopping malls, open markets, and restaurants. Canadians should monitor local developments and register and remain in regular contact with the Canadian Embassy in Kuwait City (see below) or the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade (call collect 613-996-8885).


AREAS OF BCISTABILITY: Travel to and near the Iraq-Kuwait border is very hazardous. U.S. citizens having legitimate work-related business near the border may receive updated information from the U.S. Embassy and may also wish to consult their employer's security personnel. Unexploded bombs, mines, booby traps, and other items remain present in some areas in Kuwait. U.S. Embassy personnel are advised to use caution if traveling off paved surfaces outside Kuwait City.
SAFETY AND SECURITY: Americans in Kuwait should exercise a high level of security awareness. The Department of State remains concerned about the possibility of further terrorist actions against U.S. citizens and interests abroad, specifically in the Middle-East, including the Persian Gulf and Arabian Peninsula. Recent terrorist attacks have included an attack on U.S. forces in Kuwait that killed a Marine. Americans should maintain a low profile, vary routes and times for all required travel to the extent possible, and treat mail and packages from unfamiliar sources with suspicion. U.S. citizens are also urged to avoid contact with any suspicious, unfamiliar objects and to report the presence of such objects to local authorities. The U.S. Embassy in Kuwait urges all Americans to be wary of unexpected visitors and to pay particular attention to suspicious vehicles. Any suspicious activities or vehicles should be reported immediately to the Embassy's Regional Security Office. American citizens are advised to avoid apartment complexes where Americans or other Westerners are generally known to live or visit in large numbers. Americans should also increase their security awareness at other public places where Americans or other Westerners are known to congregate or visit in large numbers, avoid them, or switch to other locations. Americans living in or visiting Kuwait should read the current Public Announcement -- Middle East and North Africa Update and the current Public Announcement -- Worldwide Caution. Americans resident in or visiting Kuwait should also check the Department of State web page http://travel.state.gov for updated travel warnings and Consular Information Sheets.

[chinny]

:ooh: whoaoaaa boy -slow down.....:eek:

[Speedbrake Lever]

loopy


You ok there Whoahh !!

Just behave yourself in the Mid east like you really should do wherever you are on this planet and you will enjoy yourself

Everything is possible and available in the M.E. except for authentic Booze in Kuwait and Saudi and Pork products in short enough supply in a few places but available in others

West Africa in my opinion is far more dangerous a spot then the M.E.
and i've been in both mind you a mere 22 years in the M.E.

S.L.

[mutt]

DDDOF,

You really have to be more specific about what part of the Middle East you are talking about, its a pretty big place that also has attitudes which are around 600 years apart.

Mutt.

[DDDOF]

Bahrain, Dubai, Doha
Please excuse if I spelled wrong.

[wandrinabout]

read Gulf, Emirates or Qatar

DDDOF,
if you are 76 typed you had better consider Abu Dhabi also, as all GF's 76's are being relocated there.

Theres plenty on this forum already about Abu Dhabi from the guys directly involved in the shift.
Likewise DXB/DOH - Just do a search on Emirates or Qatar, should keep you reading for a while.

[kiron]

....Wow , after Loop"s post , all i have to say is " THANK GOD IM NOT AMERICAN " ......ha ha (jokes)

:cool: :{ :)

[ExSimGuy]

AUH, DXB, DOH, BAH - all paradise to us who reside in DAM, RUH or JED:}

As was said above - 600 years difference in attitude

[ironbutt57]

I'll put forth a challenge to all north americans, and eurobrats...I will cash my paycheck and wander 'bout Bahrain 0200 or so pissed with my wallet hanging out of my pocket...you doubters try that in any major american city, london, or elsewhere in the western world...i promise i have a much better chance of making it home intact than you do....yes there is crime..as anywhere, but it is MUCH safer here than anywhere I have ever lived...until you drive on the roads...thats another matter;)

[Capt_Zoolander]

Ironbutt57,

I think you are still living in the past.

I considered moving to the Middle East thirteen years ago, because of the low Taxes, everything paid for ,plenty of places in the Schools for the Kids, good Accomodation etc etc. The opportunity to work for a company that appreciated the Pilots and looked after them.

This is now proved beyond a doubt to be a total fantasy. How many Pilots and their families are now scared sh**less, wondering if the next bus driver or taxi driver or the person sitting next to them is about to blow themselves to pieces?

As I and anyone else who has ever considered a move to the ME will now know, the World is a now a completely different place. I actually almost made the mistake of moving there about 12 months ago.

Lucky for me I was rejected!

I am now crying tears of joy

Thank You Tim!

:cool: :cool: :cool:

[mutt]

Capt Zoolander i have you at a slight disadvantage as i did move to the ME 12 years ago....... I totally agree with Ironbutt57.

Things have certainly changed, my compound is now protected by armed military, but in general i feel a lot safer wandering the streets here than in the UK.


Mutt.

[BahrainLad]

I've lived in the ME for 14 years.

It's still the only place in the world where you can entrust the parking of your car to some random window-washer, then return 4 hours later with your car unlocked and the keys in the ignition.

Capt_Zoolander, can you tell us how many instances of suicide bombings have taken place in Bahrain, Dubai or Doha recently?

[homesick rae]

Just like to echo the sentiments of Mutt, Ironbutt and BAH Lad:

I first moved to the Gulf/ Mideast in 1987 and have lived in JED, BEY, DOH and DXB and have never felt safer.

I still continue to have dealings with the Gulf region and personally I would much rather live there than the UK.

Sure, there is heightened security, but have a look at the US and indeed other countries.

Capt. Zoolander...too bad...you missed the boat mate!

[Capt_Zoolander]

I knew I would get a few reponses, like this

"Capt. Zoolander...too bad...you missed the boat mate!"

I am very happy to have missed the boat!

Since "missing the boat", my house in OZ has increased in value by $120,000 due to the real estate mini boom we have had over the last 18 months. If I had been lucky enough to "catch the boat", I would have sold my house 18 months ago and missed out on this tax free capital gain.

I wonder how much I would have "put in the bank" over the last 18 months. (after making allowances for the high cost of living in the ME)

I don't think it would have been very much, if anything at all.

Anyway, I don't see what this has to do with whether or not, a move to the ME is a good idea. The World is now a different place to 14 years ago. If you are single and have no ties, I would recommend "Go for it". If you are married with a family I would seriously look at all other alternatives before making the move.



:cool: :cool: :cool:

[divingduck]

Capt Zoolander....

I'm not a pilot, but I have lived in the ME for the past 6 years.

I can only echo what all the others have said. It's a great place to live, really good for the kids, much safer than being in a big city at home I can assure you.

I live in Muscat, which is a full order of magnitude better than those other places:ok: but to think that you have won the lotto for missing out seems odd to me.

BTW I didn't sell either of my houses in Oz, they also went up astronomically..and i put a bucket load of tax free dollars in the bank...go figure.

[Ramboflyer 1]

cPT zoolander,
Well what are you doing now are you a happy S/O in Qantas never to be a Captain again or are you at home waiting for a dream job...............

[ia1166]

i have to disagree with zoolander as well. i kept both my houses in the uk when i left 3 years ago, both rented i have never had to pay the mortgage. i leave my car running with the ac on while i shop for groceries, and have a maid and a gardener.
to anyone thinking of coming out here you should. the weather is perfect, its much safer than the west for crime and such like, and i a very glad about moving here.

[Capt_Zoolander]

Ramboflyer 1 said,


"cPT zoolander,
Well what are you doing now are you a happy S/O in Qantas never to be a Captain again or are you at home waiting for a dream job..............."


Well, well, well,


We really are getting personal now aren't we?



DDDOF asked a simple question,


Hi there, thinking about a contract position in M.E
Just wondering about a few lifestyle questions.


Loopy said,

You may not have enough time to identify your self as none American citizen. All Caucasians are subject to the following risk factors.

http://travel.state.gov/meu_announce.html

http://travel.state.gov/wwc1.html


Somehow we have reached this slanging match that I don't intend to participate in any further. As I said, I was rejected, but I am happy with the way things have worked out, particularly considering the problems in the M.E. at the moment

Everyone has choices in life and different paths to follow, I am enjoying my life, please enjoy yours.

Cheers,

Zoolander


:cool: :cool: :cool:

[MTOW]

Capt (not) Z is trying to convince himself that he did the right thing in staying in Oz. Say it often enough and YOU might come to believe it, 'Z'.

I very much doubt that very many of your ex-colleagues who succeeded in going to EK will.

[divingduck]

At the risk of starting a flame war....

Capt. Z...could it possibly be that you do not wish to climb off your pedestal in the sheltered workshop that is Oz aviation?

Over this side of the Indian Ocean, pilots are treated just as another professional, not the be all and end all of humanity.
If you want that kudos, you had better get heavily involved in the oil or engineering sector, they get paid WAY more than mere aviation types.

As MTOW said...

:ok:

[jet4hire]

I got to admit that the best place to be is at home but things here in the desert are not all that bad!

You are right about the living expenses they are higher than some other countries but some other countres get you with the tax real bad!

after all, you got to live where the bread is ??? or where you can managed to live more happier!


cheers!

:cool:

[CaptSnails]

Capt. Z I fully agree with you that we all have the right to choices in life and I personally have no problem with yours.

I'm under the impression however that you may be one of the countless victims of mass media propaganda. Since 9-11 the media (with political direction) have managed to build an image of arabs and muslims in general as terorists. Of course no one is doubting that the tragedy of the twin towers was planned and executed by arabs but does that brand all arabs and muslims as extremists?

The media is playing a very dangerous game and the current US administration is making things even more volatile. The truth of the matter is that the media (in large part) is controlled by Jewish interests and ofcourse the anti Arab sentiments are strong. The events of 9-11 were a stepping stone for the media to change public opinion of Arabs and Muslims around the world.

In reality Arabs and Muslims are very tolerant people with high moral values. All the Arabs I know (been in the Gulf last 10 years) were equaly if not more horrified by the images on tv that morning on 9-11. So for us to brand all Arabs as extremists or terrorist is not only unjust but also immoral.

Once again I respect your choice of staying home but by no means be under the impression that you and your family would not have been welcome here by the locals.

Blue skies to you.

[druckmefunk]

Living in the middle east?

A lot of interesting but reasonably self centred replies here. Like I can wander around pissed at 0200 and feel safe etc, I can have my car washed without being stolen, even a bit about money and taxes.

Now I do agree that these are all true, but consider this.

A couple of days ago we got a message from our school that one of our former classmates had died. This little girl had walked out into the backyard of her new house to water her new garden and put her had on an electric pump and was electrocuted.

Now accidents happens all over the world, I know. But does the country you are now living in have rules regarding tradesmen. Here in the middle east there are none. These guys are plucked off the flight from Dhaka or Peshawar, given a pair of overalls a screw driver and pair of pliers and told they are electricians (or plumbers or carpenters or whatever is needed). This little girls death is probably a result of that. Apparently the pump had not been earthed.

If you were the parents off this little girl, all the money good schools, good weather etc are not going to change the fact that you made the biggest mistake of your life coming to the middle east.

This is the reality of living here. It appears civilised on the surface, but it is only a facade, and unfortunately you just dont know when you are going to scratch the surface, and the reality under neath is going to bite you and bite you hard.

DMF

[pauli767]

zoolander,

as an Australian living and working in the United states for 19years I know you are kidding. Working for TWA/American airlines for 13 years and looking back at where the industry in Australia has gone over the last three years ,i know you are dreaming!

There is basically no opportunity in Auz. The industry is screwed. Stop with your BS. Is there a little envy because you were turned down? How much do you really know about the ME. I spent 5years flying from NYC to the ME, and never had the experience you had. As another poster said... " a little respect for the local culture is definitely required. You would have been a great colonialist!

So what are you doing with yourself know? Virgin, Qantarse?

Pauli

[Capt_Zoolander]

pauli767 said,


" as an Australian living and working in the United states for 19years I know you are kidding."

Well all I have to say to you pauli767 is, if it is so good, why aren't you living in the ME?

"Is there a little envy because you were turned down?"

Not really, to be honest I quite liked the little I saw of Dubai, and my wife liked it also, but as I said, I am happy about the way things turned out.

"There is basically no opportunity in Auz. The industry is screwed."


Yes, I would have to agree with you on this statement.

"How much do you really know about the ME"

Not much really, perhaps you can fill in a few details for our readers.


Cheers,


:cool: :cool: :cool:

[Capt_Zoolander]

"Do any of you Middle East expats have a blonde haired wife?"

I do, but then again, I am still in OZ

"Don't you find the way Western women are mentally raped by locals and Sub-Continent expats disconcerting?"

Yes, my wife told me that she felt very uncomfortable at times, being stared at in the Hotel restaurant by locals, while I was doing the EK interview

"What about teen daughters?"

Yes , three blondes also.

"Surely the above are quality of life issue?"

Of course they are!

"Zoolander

No place like home!"

I agree!!

"You are a little of the mark regarding terrorism but "yes" it is in the back of my mind"

I hope I am off the mark, but obviously this is a very sensitive subject for people viewing this thread.

Cheers,

Zoolander

[BahrainLad]

Drukmefunk, I'm sorry, but that was one of the more ridiculous comments about living in the Middle East that I've ever heard. Yes, certainly, there are 'cowboy' electricians/plumbers/builders in the Middle East, but there are everywhere in the world. This sort of accident, tragic as it is, is not confined to the Middle East. It's an unfortunate fact of life that children die from domestic accidents all over the world. IMHO, health and safety legislation more serves to encourage a blame culture rather than actually prevent accidents, but that's for another thread.

In any case, this accident should be taken into the context of the general bringing-up of children in the ME: how many children in the Middle East were abducted, raped, tortured and murdered last year? Or the year before that? The overall atmosphere is a safe place to bring up children.

As for terrorism, State Department briefings are designed to protect the officials who write them from litigation, not citizens from terrorism. I remember one that said "If you see piles of burning tyres, do not approach them"..........personally I feel more scared of an anthrax attack on the Tube or a bomb in Harrods than I do of any terrorism in the Middle East.

[Bagshaw Crusher]

Back home you don't walk through long grass without good boots due deadly snakes.

Don't walk through parks at night in big western cities due muggings.

Don't drink at night clubs in the Middle East due being a soft terrorist target.

Common sense for some and paranoia to others.

[White Knight]

Well said Bahrain Lad - four of my children go to the school that the very unfortunate electrocuted girl went to. VERY SAD:sad: :sad:
HOWEVER back in 1987 my two year old cousin died after falling into a swimming pool - the british workman had left the gates to the swimming pool that they were working on open. British workmen. British house in Surrey. Accidents happen. Get real!!!
My family are far safer in the Gulf than they would be in the UK - Zoolander you are a puss, more American than the usual big balled Australian that you strive to be. The ME is a great place for families.........

[Doodlebug]

Chinny, old horsethief!

Picked up this li'l rumour the other day...
Small world, eh?
:ok:

Bug

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I just missed (by 24 hours) being blown up by a terrorist bomb.

Where was I? ATL. That would be Atlanta, Georgia, USA (during the 96 Olympics). I don't believe there have been ANY bombings in UAE, so according to some of the previous posters, I should immediately move to the UAE because it's safer!

So much for staying out of the ME because of danger.

And, for the poster who was mentioning "Blondes" and women being "mentally raped" (whatever that means), what the poster means is that they're uncomfortable being around people of another race, and that they would hate the idea of their daughter dating a MEasterner.

This is the 21st century, and we are trying to improve the world be shedding those old attitudes.

My wife gets plenty of "looks" where ever she goes-Wisconsin, Mexico, Florida, Arizona, Canada. Do guys wish they were doing her? Of course, they're male.

If I see a great looking woman, I often fantasize about her, and by the way, it doesn't matter to me what color their skin is or where they're from-if they're good looking, they're good looking.

I am very interested in Emirates, and I'd like to read informative posts with facts in them, so I can make a decision.

Good luck to you!