pa42
2nd Jun 2003, 00:10
Try this, let me know how useful you find it!
High-time f/w pilot, rated rotary, doing USA flight review for FAR's.
Get him in the air, do whatever you normally do. Before returning to base, sometime, ask him for a steep turn.
Be Ready! most helicopter pilots see only 30 degree banks in training (angle of bank usually not being specified, but certainly no emphasis placed getting seriously steep, or even on using the word "steep"), while F/W Commercial steep turn is always 60 degree bank, Private is always 45 degrees. So f/w pilots customarily add Lots of Pedal (virtually the definition of "coordination" in the f/w world). (And on top of that, in flying Gliders, the long wing takes 100% rudder pedal to roll into the steep turn!) They also more often than not maintain altitude with Pitch, not power.
So it may be that Negative Transfer will rear its ugly head, and he won't be able to resist adding a lot of pedal along with aft cyclic!
(I caught myself doing that; a result in part of garnering a state distance record in gliders. Have never seen it mentioned in rotary flight manuals. Your experience?)
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And a question for CFI's: why is it that the steep turn is not part of USA helicopter training? Even the U. S. Army (as represented in FAA's Rotorcraft Flying Handbook, 8083-21) has no steep turn (except, ROFL, in the Gyroplane section!!). [Not until you explore the Kiwi view of reality--upside-down as they are--do you find a description of the steep turn "45 degrees or more," bank angle limited only by surplus power available, conducted at V-endurance. (Wagtendonk, 1996, ASA version, p. 121) (V-e being, by the way, a number not even required by FAA in helicopter flight manuals! But probably very close to Vy, best rate of climb.) ].
And if it were part of USA training program, would you expect the student to do minimum-radius turns, per Wagtendonk, at Different Bank Angles at different altitudes because of variable surplus-power-available? Hello, out there, has anybody heard this mentioned in a high-density-altitude course? I assure you, the f/w community is not even faintly aware of this issue! And I'll wager you could ask every Northern Hemisphere helicopter pilot you ever meet and get a blank look, followed by the question: "What are you on, mate?" (as if any N. H. pilots used Enunciated Punctuation in their sentences . . . sorry, just back from extended stay in OZ, having trouble with getting back into USA-colonial-English)
High-time f/w pilot, rated rotary, doing USA flight review for FAR's.
Get him in the air, do whatever you normally do. Before returning to base, sometime, ask him for a steep turn.
Be Ready! most helicopter pilots see only 30 degree banks in training (angle of bank usually not being specified, but certainly no emphasis placed getting seriously steep, or even on using the word "steep"), while F/W Commercial steep turn is always 60 degree bank, Private is always 45 degrees. So f/w pilots customarily add Lots of Pedal (virtually the definition of "coordination" in the f/w world). (And on top of that, in flying Gliders, the long wing takes 100% rudder pedal to roll into the steep turn!) They also more often than not maintain altitude with Pitch, not power.
So it may be that Negative Transfer will rear its ugly head, and he won't be able to resist adding a lot of pedal along with aft cyclic!
(I caught myself doing that; a result in part of garnering a state distance record in gliders. Have never seen it mentioned in rotary flight manuals. Your experience?)
========
And a question for CFI's: why is it that the steep turn is not part of USA helicopter training? Even the U. S. Army (as represented in FAA's Rotorcraft Flying Handbook, 8083-21) has no steep turn (except, ROFL, in the Gyroplane section!!). [Not until you explore the Kiwi view of reality--upside-down as they are--do you find a description of the steep turn "45 degrees or more," bank angle limited only by surplus power available, conducted at V-endurance. (Wagtendonk, 1996, ASA version, p. 121) (V-e being, by the way, a number not even required by FAA in helicopter flight manuals! But probably very close to Vy, best rate of climb.) ].
And if it were part of USA training program, would you expect the student to do minimum-radius turns, per Wagtendonk, at Different Bank Angles at different altitudes because of variable surplus-power-available? Hello, out there, has anybody heard this mentioned in a high-density-altitude course? I assure you, the f/w community is not even faintly aware of this issue! And I'll wager you could ask every Northern Hemisphere helicopter pilot you ever meet and get a blank look, followed by the question: "What are you on, mate?" (as if any N. H. pilots used Enunciated Punctuation in their sentences . . . sorry, just back from extended stay in OZ, having trouble with getting back into USA-colonial-English)