Europe Launches Military Rival to U.S.

[I. M. Esperto]

From: NewsMax.com
To: NewsMax.com News Alert
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 4:27 AM
Subject: Europe Launches Military Rival to U.S.

May 28, 2003 News Alerts and Special Offers from NewsMax.com


Europe Launches Military Rival to U.S.

The European Union demonstrates its determination to become a major
military power with a $23 billion contract for 180 Airbus A400 military
transport jumbo jets. The move is a dream come true for France and
Germany, which since breaking with Washington over Iraq have vowed to
create a power to rival the United States.

[moggie]

Wahey!!!! Jet powered A400M!!! Wow!!

[BlueWolf]

Brilliant. Marvellous. Absolutely triffic. Can't see it being anything but a complete and total success.
All those languages, national priorities and so forth, have to be a winning formula.
I mean, the Italians with their organisational abilities, the Germans with their post-WWII combat experience, the French with their history of military victories, the Greeks and the Turks with their long history of friendly cooperation, the Spanish with their deep respect for democracy, the Belgians with their....um...well, they must have something, the eastern European newcomers with their advanced infrastructures and confident trust in the West, etc etc etc.
Yep, it'll be a cracker. An absolute cracker. Watch out, Uncle Sam, your days are numbered.
Boy oh boy, the Poms will rue the day they decided to run with the Yanks instead of Europe. You'll see. Oh yes.

Who dreamt this idea up, Monty Python?

[Pauly Walnuts]

I grew up in Europe. People over there can not agree with the people in the next village, much less the next country. Good Luck.

I am happy I live in the US, there is going to be trouble in Europe sooner or later.

Well said New Zealand guy.

[Fortyodd]

:D Chocolate, Bluewolf. The Belgians have chocolate!!

[polyglory]

Yep a real dog's breakfast in one Bluewolf:D

[BEagle]

You mean a military rival as worrying to the US Defenc(s)e industry as the Bureaufighter 2000.........

I guess that EF2000 was getting to be rather an embarassing name - hence it's now the TypHoon!

Fortunately A400M has been lurking as lines of computer code for quite a while now, being tweaked and polished. Plus it will have a truly magnificent state of the art A380 style flight deck. So when the 'File - Make' option is clicked, it should start coming together pretty quickly.

[Pilgrim101]

Quite what a bloated order for a few military transports does to compete with the US military machine escapes me. Europe couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper bag because of the corrupt self interest which surfaces every time a decision is required.

The French and Germans are in for a shock when the developing countries in Europe start to outperform their sluggish, bureaucratic economies thanks to American Investment diversions and the increased cohesive competition from American Commerce and Industry.

[Jackonicko]

Typhoon isn't and never could be an F-22. (Though aspects of the aircraft have drawn very favourable comment from USAF people who've actually flown the rig and seen it 'up close and personal' and I spoke to one such 'Bird Colonel' who opined that with its DVI a formation of EF's might even sort and engage a formation of F-22s before the F-22s could open fire, and there are elements of EF technology that have already been adopted by the F-22).

But Typhoon could be a great low cost complement to F-22 in the A-A role.

And its European origins haven't made it any later, or any more trouble-prone, than the F-22 itself.

[fobotcso]

BlueWolf said:

French with their history of military victories,

Know what you're saying, but don't forget that the French did beat England in the fourth quarter of the 100 years war! :*

[tony draper]

I can see trouble brewing here, the Germans and the French will never be able to agree on who will be Brown Owl, and on the colour of the new EEC Armed forces woggle.

[Pilgrim101]

Oh well Tony, at least the Frermans know what's best for them. Those quiet little late night secret back door agreements between the two have consistently failed to outmanouevre the US although they seem to have Blair by the goolies like a little lapdog. Why does he insist on the EU "Constitution" knowing full well both Schroeder and Chirac can't last much longer......... Ooooh now I get it !

[whowhenwhy]

Belgium=Stella!! Hooray!!!!!:ok: :ok:

Other than that, I do believe that our colonial cousins have tapped the nail on its end. Someone please guess the country:
No sense of humour?
Body odour problem?
Too much hair gel?
Too busy hating the Turks to be interested?
Too busy hating the Greeks to be interested?
Too poor?
Too hard to concentrate because they have too many blond amazonian warriors? (Clue, Northern Europe!)
etc etc

Besides, as someone else has already alluded to, think of all the different uniforms. We'd end up having a uniform that made us look like an officer in the British Army:ooh:

[Vortex Thing]

Yes but a British Army officer would at least make it look smart, not be mistaken for a waiter in their mess kit .

More to the point at least we actually want to wear it summer and Xmas balls rather than hiding in Black tie on the pretence that it makes the evening more informal. (like you don't know who the staish is because he hasn't got his uniform on)

A400M will be fine as long as the AAC get it (Come on you've got to give it to me both barrels now):ok: :ok: :ok:

[whowhenwhy]

Sorry? Smart? Is this the same group of people that wander around in olive green cords, brogues, a barber jacket (green of course) with their hands in its pockets, a hint of a purple jumper underneath, a peaked cap on their heads and call it uniform?? Besides, we only wear the black tie thing at Xmas balls because, well because we do. Personally, and don't tell anyone else I said this, but I'd prefer to be in mess kit.
Anyway, the A400 for the AAC. Hmmmm. No, it's not even worth bothering about:p :p

[Vortex Thing]

Now you're talking a real services uniform. Those were the days when a new subaltern came into the coy/sqn/bty lines and has to return to the mess to get changed because he was wearing something the same as another subbie.

I hope that the afore described hypothetical officer was also wearing riding boots.:D

Oh by the way the Greeks and the Turks are friends again they even voted for each other in the completely non-political Eurojoke Song contest.

Oh whilst we're at the we should have the A400M stage we should also have the 130Ks you can keep the Js for dropping 16 Air Assault Bde into Washington when WWIII starts:ok:

Come to think of it we really should have 7 Sqn too. You can keep the Puma's unless you are going to put anticipators in like the SuperPumas in the North Sea fleet.:ok: :ok: :ok:

[moggie]

What a larf! They can have it if they get Apache fully operational before it's planned retirement date!!!

[WE Branch Fanatic]

The desire by some European nations for a military alliance that will/could rival NATO or the US is largely a political one - born out of the arrogance and naked anti americanism of the French (and to a lesser extent German) Government. It also is largely symbolic and represents the transfer of power away from national Governments to an unelected so called elite of failed and corrupt politicians. Maybe I should be writing this on Jet Blast....

Many former senior Officers, diplomats and politicans have commented on the risks of this scheme. See

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/06/12/wdef12.xml
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/06/13/nsandy13.xml
http://www.kc3.co.uk/~dt/eu_army.htm
http://www.basicint.org/pubs/Papers/BP37.htm
http://www.bits.de/CESD-PA/letter.html


The voices raising their concerns included many very disntiguished people. Maybe someone can find a link to the actual letter (By Admiral Sandy Woodward - obviously not the sort of person this Government has any time for) .....?

However, as recent decisions (the planned withdraw of the Sea Harrier before its replacement is ready and various other cuts) seems to indicate that the Government no longer see HM Forces as a tool of UK national policy, but merely as an extension of the foreign and security policies of Washington or Brussels.

This makes me EXTREMELY angry.

The nations of Europe lack the means to act in a major way due to equipment and other defiencies, and there is no political will to increase defence spending.

http://www.libdems.org.uk/index.cfm/page.homepage/section.home/article.4728

One of the things Europe lacks is carrier based aircraft, and the Sea Harrier getting axed will not exactly help, which is why I mention it on a thread about European defence.

[JohnB]

Hopefully someone will have looked at the cargo handling systems this time unlike the bodge jobs done on the Hercules (all models!)

[moggie]

WEBF - well done, managing to get the Sea Harrier into an A400M thread!!!! Groundhog day revisited, revisited, revisited, revisited........................

I see nothing wrong with a European alliance which will allow an extra degree of flexibility that NATO does not give us. Look at how long it took to get NATO envolved in Kosovo - because the US did not want to play.

Such an alliance does not have to be exclusive - after all, the UK is free to pursue a national defence agenda in addition to it's NATO role - so why not have the European element, too?

As for the SHAR - it is out of date, has short legs and not a great deal of flexibility - and as a former member of the RAF Harrier force it pains me to say that the GR7/9 land based force is also next to useless. Great for airshows, carries a nice range of weapons but not enough of them and not far enough. And no radar!

[whowhenwhy]

Anyone else noticed the disparity between President Bliar's statements on thie European Constitution thingy? "We will control our own armed forces and decide whether to send them into conflict." "Europe will have a unified foreign policy." Ummm, is it just me being dim or are we, as members of the forces, not the people that are the ultimate foreign policy stick to be shaken? Therefore, what is the point of a unified foreign policy when we never agree with the French and Germans over foreign policy and therefore the utilization of our armed forces? Would we not be better off just keeping with the original idea of no trade barriers within Europe, free trade etc and just kissing off this whole EU thing?

[steamchicken]

Very simple. The "unified foreign policy" will in practice mean that the 25x countries will get round a (very big!) table and try to agree. In effect, those as don't like what they agree on will opt out by doing nothing. The sky will not fall in, hens will not stop laying, rivers will not run red etc...

[BlueWolf]

Sounds a lot like the UN, and will probably be about as effective and relevant:yuk: