DJ Island

[Big Hairy Potatoes]

Firstly I thought this post was about an Island?
Secondly. Can i just ask who sets the industry standard?If the industry standard is QF, SIA et al. Why are they classed as the benchmark and why is QF trimming?(don't solely and wholly blame DJ here, Dixon is blaming anything he can on these cutbacks.ie. SARS, industry state, his mother in law)

Do QF give DJ the spares for free or do DJ pay through the arse for them, because the last comment sounds as though they don't pay for them. Didn't think anything came for free frm QF?

Just wondering?

[PERTHAVIATION]

HEHEHE,

So much for the 'big" resort going on the island. Word has it that its a nature reserve and cannot be built upon. Permission is only for the current dwelling - 1 house - and 1 toilet block.

So Guys and Girls better make plans elsewhere cause you could be waiting a long time for your resort!!!

HAHAHAHA...

[Johhny Utah]

BHP - I think the original post was actually in response to the Richard Branson announcement that 'he' was buying an island off the Queensland coast 'for his staff'. I guess if you still truly believe that there was nothing more to it, and it was all done as a goodwill gesture, then hats off to the DJ publicity machine - their spin is actually working with some of the general public!

In reference to yuor industry standard - hats off to them, I guess that DJ are now setting the industry standard. :* After all, why should companies compare themselves with well established, profitable, widely respected international airlines when they can do so with a low cost, start up carrier operating domestic only in what is essentially a duopoly...? :confused: It's just a shame that 'it' (the DJ 'industry standard'/ "the virgin blue way...") is now somewhere in the order of 30%-50% less than it used to be in terms of remuneration & benefits , for flight crew. I guess that's something that we should all be thankful for...:mad:

I'm not attacking those that choose to be employed by Virgin by any means. However, to argue that the inequality of wages received by DJ employees is a direct indication of QF excesses is a bit of a stretch as far as I'm concerned.

just my thoughts...

[Servo]

BHP what are you on? I have no idea what you are trying to say. Is it reference to other posts? Maybe my IE is not refreshing correctly and I am only seeing some of the posts.

Damn and I thought that we would be living the life of luxury on an Island resort. Oh well better let the tech crew recruiting personnel know that I dont want my job any more. I mean that is the only reason I wanted to work for Virgin.................

What is it with "other companies" always getting there nickers in a twist about DJ pay? I have never heard or read (correct me if I am wrong,please) someone from DJ indicating that other domestic 737 drivers get paid too much for essentially doing the same job.

[Johhny Utah]

Servo - you ask: What is it with "other companies" always getting there (sic) nickers in a twist about DJ pay?

My only concern with DJ wages is the potential for them to have a negative influence on wages of flight crew in Australia in general. As in any labour pool, a sudden lowering of the going market rate for professional services will have an effect on all other professionals in that same pool. I'm not suggesting that QF wages will necessarily go backwards, but do believe that there is very little room for members to negotiate an increase in wages. The concern here is that wages may decline in terms of real income (i.e relative to the everyday increase in cost of living.)

I was of the understanding that DJ's low wages were only a startup condition, and were due to be increased once the company started making a profit. unfortunately, it seems as though management have conveniently discarded this agreement, and are now only intent on utilising their cheap pool of labour to maximise profits so that the airline can be floated, thereby making them instant multi millionaires.

I wouldn't suggest that there are DJ drivers out there arguing that 'other' 737 drivers get paid 'too much' - however I do know that there are some relatively senior members of the DJ pilot group who are concerned at 'how much less' they are earning now than what was promised to them when they intially signed up...

At the end of the day, while ever QF management claim that they have to cut costs & increase efficiencies so that they are in line with 'their competitors', what happens at DJ indirectly affects my livelihood. As such, I AM minding my own business - that of maximising MY earning potential as a professional pilot. Maybe YOU need to reconsider your statement - Be happy with your lot and enjoy, if you dont like it then leave or alternatively mind your own F&^$%G business. :mad:

Just my thoughts...

[Willie Nelson]

Servo,

While I can understand you being defensive of the DJ pay cause, I believe that this type of discussion will set the tone for the industry standard for years to come. Perhaps a little more gentle persuasion might be in order.

As it happens I would be also be proud to fly for DJ if and when I get the chance. Morale seems to be high and profits are up, it must be a great feeling to be a direct contributor to that (and I am not just alking about the pay issue) Beating around the bush in a 25 y.o. PA31 for a salary that is 10 to 20k below my non aviation contemporaries is not a bad life, but I know what I want too.

Willie

[Servo]

Went to post another reply but it said I wasnt logged in and it is now lost somewhere in cyberspace:mad:

Oh well that will teach me for not copying and pasting;)

I agree I was a little harsh hence the edit. I appologise.

But please dont blame us for being the underdog. We are not intentionally eroding conditions in Australia. Management are management. Would we like the same conditions as QF, sure, (although I dont speak for everyone) but it's not going to happen. They are two completely different operations, providing the same basic service........moving people from A to B.

All I can say is I hope it doesnt get any worse.

[Kanga767]

Wages are set by supply and demand, not any one company's pay rates. They are simply a product of the former.

If you want to blame anyone for the alleged erosion of pay and conditions, perhaps you should blame the Flight Training Schools that knock out these little suckers.

K

[Whiskery]

I've got a case of VB that says Richard Branson will have his staff resort set up on the "Island" inside 12 months.
Beattie is RB's little puppet ! :ok:

[Chimbu chuckles]

And lets also factor into the equation why QF Domestic pay is as high as it is!!

Something about Social Climbing Ar$ehole Bastards from memory.

Where would domestic aircrew payrates be today if 89 had never happened and the then payrates had increased over the last 14 years at only inflation.

An 89er mate who was an F/O on 737 at the time reports a TAA base wage of around 35k, from memory, so lets round it up to 40k..at 3% annual average inflation that equates to a little under 65k today. VB F/Os are on a lot more than that...getting up towards 75k basic after a relatively short period on line + dis an dat allowances/bonuses etc.

A very good argument could be made (and don't think GD hasn't thought of this being the archtypical staff screwer) that QF Domestic pilots are overpaid...a hang over from the 'strike breaker' packages on offer to the mercenaries of 89. And don't forget QF Domestic is the last surviving 'company' from that era...because the Govt of the day essentially forgave all debt and 'sold' it to Qantas. Hardly standing on it's own feet...nor having to survive the years of asset striping that went on at AN!!

Another chap I know moved from QF to Vb, got a reasonably quick command and to quote "I fly more for less money...but enjoy life a helluva lot more".

Expat wages are a reflection of the minimum that can be gotten away with and still attract enough people of reasonable caliber...for the minimum time until they can be dispensed with and locals take over...the world has changed a lot in the last 20 years and expats, of all persuasions but pilots particularly, are roundly hated...but they need them so pay them well to put up with the expat lifestyle, which includes zero job security and poor promotional prospects. Ask me how I know!!!

For my money I believe in the next years you will see VB pay go up slowly and QF pay (domestic) came backwards until they meet somewhere in the middle...it's the 'market forces' pilots love to quote when times are good and pay is squeezed upwards. QF Mainline run their own show and probably won't suffer anything like as much.

Another upwards pressure on VB pay will be the steady migration of it's younger crews overseas for the big expat packages...and why not-they are young and super qualified. Prior to SARS there were 40+ on the KA books alone, more at Emirates. That's the nature of the industry.

Chuck.