Trouble on QF flight from MEL-Tassie??

[Fat Ass]

Friend called from HK to say there are reports of trouble on a QF flight MEL-TASSIE. Rather not comment until something "repoted". Anyone heard.:confused:

[Bankstown]

It was a stabbing of two F/As and a pax on a MEL-LST flight:
News.com.au article (http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6512001%255E1702,00.html)
QF1737 MEL-LST is running three hours late

[SteveJWR]

How did the pax get a aerosol can and a lighter on board the ac as reported. Stabbing also suggests a knife, how did that get through?

Here's the www.news.com.au story @ 01630 Thurs ...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stabbings on Qantas flight
May 29, 2003

TWO people were stabbed and two others injured aboard a Qantas flight from Melbourne to Launceston this afternoon, emergency services said.



Two flight attendants, a man aged in his late 30s and a woman aged in her 20s, were stabbed and had been taken to the Royal Melbourne Hospital, Metropolitan Ambulance spokesman James Howe.

An Australian Federal Police spokeswoman said one man was in custody being interviewed.

Qantas flight QF 1737 was enroute to Launceston when there was a melee on board, forcing the aircraft to immediately return to Melbourne's Tullamarine airport.

The aircraft took off shortly before 3pm, according to reports.

Qantas have provided no details other than confirming the incident took place Mr Howe said the flight attendants were both in a stable condition with facial lacerations.

Two passengers were also treated by paramedics at the scene for minor injuries.

A man has been arrested at Melbourne Airport over an alleged stabbing on a Qantas flight between Melbourne and Launceston.

More to come

AAP

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[SM4 Pirate]

It happened very soon after getting airborn; the aircraft didn't get outside of 30 Miles Melbourne. described as a security breach, local airport standby and AFP called.

Bottle of Rum

[Luca_brasi]

Press conference in approx 10mins, is there anyway to hear/watch it online??

[Bankstown]

Luca_brasi, the SMH site now has the Sky News report and John Anderson's response online at www.smh.com.au (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/29/1054177663122.html).

[Luca_brasi]

Thanks Bankstown, i guess its hit refresh every couple of minutes for the latest. The joys of being at uni with no TV. Hope all is safe and the offender gets prosecuted and severley punished.

[Fat Ass]

Just on the news that a sharpened wooden tool was used in the stabbings. :* :*

[jupiter2]

"A sharpened wooden tool?"..........

Which one are you referring to,"John Anderson or Mick Toller?"

[Soulman]

Hey guys,

Latest from the majors across the country:

Stabbings on Qantas flight
May 29, 2003

TWO flight attendants were stabbed and two other people injured when a man tried to force his way into the cockpit of a Qantas flight from Melbourne to Launceston this afternoon.
The attendants, a man aged in his late 30s and a woman aged in her 20s, were stabbed and had been taken to the Royal Melbourne Hospital, Metropolitan Ambulance spokesman James Howe said.

They were described as being in a serious but stable condition.

Flight QF1737 was enroute to Launceston when there was a melee on board, forcing the aircraft to immediately return to Melbourne's Tullamarine airport.

Police surrounded the aircraft as soon as it landed. It had taken off shortly before 3pm.

Transport Minister John Anderson told reporters the attack was carried out with a sharp wooden implement.

He said the man tried to down the plane soon after it left Melbourne.

There was no evidence it was an act of terrorism.

There were almost 100 passengers aboard, and six to eight crew.

Australian Federal Police said a man was arrested shortly after the flight landed.

"We believe a male passenger was attempting to enter the cockpit and was subdued by flight attendants and passengers," a spokeswoman said.

"The flight had not long left Melbourne."

Mr Anderson said the suspect was an Australian aged in his 40s.

Mr Howe said the flight attendants were both in a stable condition with facial lacerations.

Two passengers were also treated by paramedics at the scene for minor injuries.

Melbourne man Joe De Costa, who was a passenger on the plane, said that the male attendant appeared to have been stabbed around the back of his head or neck.

Mr De Costa said the steward's back was covered in blood.

He said he believed the attacker produced two sharpened wooden objects.

Check out http://www.news.com.au for the latest.

Maybe he forgot his lunch and was going to ask the crew if they'd like to return to Tulla so he could grab his grub? :p

Cheers,

Souls.

[Longhauler]

Best wishes to the cabin crew for a speedy recovery. It sounded like the stabbings were more that just superficial. Another 2 (and perhaps many more) lives adversely affected and perhaps ruined by 1 sick, moronic lunatic.

LH :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Hugh Jarse]

Probably not. :mad:

A wakeup call for security measures at all Australian airports.

The present measures are a joke :yuk:

[Spotlight]

STEWJWR

I guess lateral thinking is not your strong suit!

Ditzy Boy, not you I trust. Let us know.

[Capt Fathom]

Does this mean I can have my nail clippers back?
Security..what a joke!

[Louie the Fly]

Maybe a little hand-to-hand traning might be in order for F/A's.
Aikido perhaps?

[woftam]

Well done by the crew it would seem.
It will be VERY important that this idiot gets the maximum punishment available under the law.
No slaps on the hand for this one can be tolerated.
We can accept nothing less than ZERO tolerance to this or it will be open season.
:mad:

[GoGirl]

Well done to the brave crew, who, for their efforts were quite badly hurt.

I hope the pax and crew involved all come to terms with this incident, and recover fully.

Nasty stuff.


Someone asked the question regarding cigarette lighters and aerasol spray cans;
What can I say? I was at BNE domestic just a few days ago. I always carry a can of personal body spray in my handbag, and I happen to be a smoker. On this occasion I had 3 lighters in my bag.
Upon going through security, I was pulled aside and asked to remove 2 of the lighters and either bin them, or have my companions take one each in their bags.
Nurries. We proceed. I get back my lighters when we're upstairs and put them back in my bag.
I went downstairs a little while later to go to the ATM and had to come back through security. I decided I'd take all 3 lighters out of my handbag and pkace them in the trays provided for loose items.

Collected all 3 upon clearing the security screen ;)

As for the aerasol can in the bag, there was never a question raised.

I have been personally involved in other similar, inconsistant security screening at 2 other Major Australian airports.
They key word here being Inconsistant
Like all Macca's burgers come out looking the same, all security conditions should be followed in a uniform fashion throughout the industry.

AND THEY CURRENTLY ARE NOT!
Where's the quality contol? Who's running thins show, and should the airlines, and for that matter, the travelling public and staff working for the airlines, be expected to put up with second-class, relaxed security systems?

I should think the Airlines, considering the HUGE amounts of money they have to pour into security, would want to take a long hard look at just what is going on, and seek some realistic explainations and assurances of above-satisfactory standards in future.

How easy would it be to conceal a couple of wooden stakes about 15cm long?
I should think any jacket with sleaves would do the trick.
Perhaps the next step is to insist that pax remove all loose outer garmets prior to stepping through the security screen?
Too drastic? Perhaps :confused:


Whatever provoked this incident is beside the point when it comes to the issue of security.

All I can say from a personal stand is that I'm troubled when I see the inconsistancies of the securitiy measures in our airports.

I still choose to travel by air, it's just such a shame that I seem to quietly let out a small sigh of relief whenever I get to my destination now.......


Again, I'd like to wish the effected crew a speedy recovery, and a hopeful, bright future.
To all other crews out there tonight who might be feeling a bit, understandably uneasy, you are obviously trained well, and equipped to handle really sh!tfull situations, as was demonstrated by your colleques today.
You should feel proud of the jobs you do :ok:


And here's hoping that some things change rapidly as a result of this situation. Maybe, just maybe, it has highlighted how bloody precarious the situation is.


Regards
GG

[gaunty]

Go Girl. :ok:

gaunty was almost down to his socks and undies the other night trying to get through the security thing. Not a pretty sight I promise you:yuk:
Must be all those cheap fillings.:{

Thing was I had emptied my pockets into the plastic thingy the contents of which contained a fairly expensive retractable tip 0.5mm propelling pencil which would have made a much more effective implement than a wooden stake. It sailed through the machine unchallenged and then waited patiently for me to get dressed, to be returned to my pocket.

Why a "fairly expensive retractable tip 0.5mm propelling pencil," ($80)?
Because I do a lot of sketching and drawing and I got sick to death of stabbing myself to death every time I put those sort of unretractable pencils back in my pocket. :rolleyes:

Nuh we got a way to go yet.

[Eastwest Loco]

Well done indeed to the cabin crew. I hope they are not badly hurt, but it shows that they are professional to the Nth degree.

Well done also to the passengers that assisted.

Hopefully after the dropkick was subdued someone had the presence of mind to kick the living suitcase out of him.

I would also like to know the ethnic origon of this person who was reported as "Australian". Any clues if it was Bruce from down the road or otherwise?

Best all

EWL

[Spotlight]

Your man Dixon didn't look so flash tonight. Even making allowances for the shock that this type of crime causes, the man looked like he had another Sept 11 on his hands and he was to blame.
Babbeling on about cockpit door locks, dates for compliance etc. I think the gist of what he was saying was that : 'anyway even though the door on this aircraft wasn't compliant it was locked, and he didn't get in'.

Still, I would not discount his foresight. Heads will roll, and the fact that the lunatic was cunning enough to smuggle timber weapons aboard means, generally speaking the security services are in the clear.

I can report though that the profiling is going well (true story), 3 days ago I questioned security staff whether it was really necessary (it was) to do a pat down search of a lady in her seventies. It was her pacemaker you see, it kept making the thing go beep.

If the red-eyed serious looking fellow keeping both arms tightly by his side whilst conversing with himself rated a second look i coudn't say.

Older members can all tell tales of the times this type of criminal lunacy has occurred before in Australia, most famously with the F27 in Alice. For those that don't know the miscreant ended up dead in a ditch thanks in part to a brave young (in those days) instructor.

I would hope that this terrible episode is kept in perspective as one of those things that happen. That the heroic crew and passengers are duly acknowledged and next week we go about business as normal, accepting these things can happen and will be dealt with as and when they occur.

Plus a full audit of cockpit doors on whatever date Geoff reckons. (Jets that is)

[Buster Hyman]

Well done to the FA's who "protected" their (Tech) crew, their aircraft & the punters! I don't mind having the odd dig at you guys, but I'll also acknowledge credit when it's due.:ok:

Well done to the two punters as well. Good to see that the "not my problem" mentality hadn't taken hold on at least two of them.

Gaunty/GoGirl. I'm with you. Almost had the trousers around my ankles at Mascot the other day, yet, same belt 2 days earlier at Tulla was nooo problem.:confused:

Now, I'm curious as to whether the RAAF were contacted, or was it their RDO? Did YMML have F/A18's overhead? I didn't hear them....:sad:

[PERTHAVIATION]

C'mon Guys, you tell me how a Security Officer is meant to see two 15cm sharpend sticks in a person's bag on an X-ray screen and how a Walk Thru METAL detector will pick up wood if its on a person's body...

At MEL Airport in the "sterile" area you can buy Chinese with Wooden chopsticks - could have been a sharpend pair of these - after you have passed thru Security Screening.

So give it a break and stop blaming Security for these problems. Remember if you didn't have em' christ know's what would make it on-board the Aircraft - whether it be DG's or Prohibited Items. Remember they only follow the rules that DOTARS set. If you want to make any complaints at all I suggest everyone write to DOTARS!!

I thought we were ment to be professional around here. Plus you don't see Security popping up here taking the pis* out of the Pilots etc..

[BIK_116.80]

The industry spends tens of millions annually on safety oriented crew training, whole forests are cut down in order to print voluminous safety manuals and procedures are developed for every conceivable emergency scenario.

But when it all hits the fan at the least expected moment and in the least expected way, as it invariably does, it all comes down to the guts and determination of the fine young men and women who crew these aeroplanes.

A very big well done to ALL the crew of this aeroplane for a truly magnificent result.

The plane landed safely and no lives were lost.

And as a bonus, the plane is in great shape and can even be used again!

It simply doesn't get any better than that.

Well done ladies and gentlemen!

I hope the injured amongst you are not experiencing too much discomfort and are able to make a smooth and speedy recovery.

Great work, guys! :ok:

[Captain Gidday]

Well said BIK!
Three additional points.
1. How was the security last time you hopped on a train/ferry/tram? Or crossed a bridge or drove through a tunnel. Or entered an office block. Friends, we live in an 'open' society and there is a balance going on continually between individual rights to privacy and invasions of that privacy for what is seen to be the greater common good.
2. Isn't this the moment the CEO is supposed to say "That's Qantas Link, a separate company, not us!"?
3. It's been previously reported in the Fin Review, so I am not telling you anything that is not public info, that GD was having a bit of R+R in his home town this week, I think, and perhaps he had to rush back to the Big Smoke at short notice to hose this one down, which is probably why he looked as if he was still coming up to speed.
Used to be that a media specialist [ the legendary "A Company Spokesman"] would handle this stuff and keep the media off the CEO's back. Seemed to work better, too. Anyway, it works better for us if one does the flying and another the communicating.
GD will have to institute a new bravery award. Silver Service Cross, with Bar!

[Wirraway]

Fri "The Australian"

Passenger with evil on his mind
By John Ferguson and Mark Buttler
May 30, 2003

GLUED to their windows watching a sun-drenched Victorian coast disappear in the distance, most passengers on Qantas Flight 1737 failed to notice the middle-aged man in the brown pinstripe suit.

The man undid his seatbelt and rose silently from row seven with evil on his mind.

The seatbelt warning light had just been turned off, but he was not hanging around.

In seconds he was standing in the aisle, raising his hands and revealing two carefully sharpened wooden stakes, a yellow cigarette lighter and silver aerosol can.

The sudden movement startled many of his 46 fellow passengers who looked away from Bass Strait with Phillip Island fading away quickly filling their cabin windows.

In that split-second of recognition, their surprise gave way to terror as every plane passengers' post-September 11 nightmare came true before their eyes.

Rushing now, the man surged forward past rows six, five, four, three . . . the cockpit was now almost within his grasp but he had not counted on the bravery of crew and passengers.

The first to react was a 38-year-old male flight attendant who confronted the assailant in the aisle, blocking his path to the pilot.

But the man was not so easily deterred.

He kept coming.

The attendant pushed the man away from the cockpit, using his head as a battering ram.

Passengers screamed in horror as blood spurted from the crewman's neck after one of the wooden weapons found its mark in the tussle.

Not thinking of her own safety, a female flight attendant, 25, rushed forward to help her stricken colleague and was slashed across the face.

As terror rippled through the cabin, six courageous passengers and more crew piled on top of the attempted hijacker, crushing him under their combined weight.

In 20 seconds the terror threat was over.

They bound him with plastic ties and wedged him between two seats.

Behind the locked cockpit door, the rattled pilot radioed Melbourne airport alerting them to the mid-air emergency.

The jet was turned around and set on a direct course for Tullamarine.

Outside the cockpit, for what seemed an eternity but was in reality probably closer to 20 minutes, passengers and crew sat on the would-be hijacker.

Melbourne airport had never looked so good.

Fire crews and police raced to the tarmac, surrounded the plane and arrested the disarmed man as the plane landed at 3.15pm - less than 30 minutes after take-off.

The stewards received urgent medical help, along with two passenger heroes who had received slight injuries.

Distressed passengers, some weeping, were comforted by fellow travellers.

Bags were later removed from the jet with forensic investigators and sniffer dogs examining several of them.

At gate 12, in the Qantas domestic terminal, investigators also removed several bags of evidence.

Passengers were counselled in the airport lounge. They were served red and white wine and Crown Lager beer.

"I'm glad it's over," said a young mother with a four-year-old son.

About 7pm the nervous passengers were led on to another flight for Launceston.

They landed safely and without incident.

==========================================

[Gnadenburg]

Terrible way to find out you are still in the industry post- Ansett Greg.

Well done and get well soon.

Great bloke to have a beer with on many a overnight.

Hope the Impulse boys look after your bar bill in the future.

[Barbers Pole]

Well done to the crew & Pax who stood up to be counted when it was really needed. :ok:

Question? Do QF domestic a/c not carry handcuffs?
All AirNz jet a/c carry 2 sets plus a baton.

AirNZ are putting F/A's (volunteers) through anti terriosm course's run by ex SAS members, very heavy stuff with 3 F/A from the first one needing hospital treatment. (broken bones/stitchs) and one instructor got knocked out!!

But having spoken to a couple who have passed it they said it has given them so much more confidence to deal with any onboard problems. :ok:

[Winstun]

six courageous passengers and more crew piled on top of the attempted hijacker More Australian media hype. Not wanting to die is courageous? Passengers taking out a hijacker. It's a given. Big deal..........................:ooh:

[Torres]

Wirraway, I can't believe the article you posted above is for real.

(Fri "The Australian" Passenger with evil on his mind By John Ferguson and Mark Buttler May 30, 2003)

Sounds like the first draft of a second grade paperback novel. :yuk:

It demeans the crew whose actions were beyond reproach and demeans the intelligence of the Australian public who read that crap.

Whatever happened to factual reporting?

[Wirraway]

Torres

When I read it in the "Australian" I could not believe the way
it was written, I just had to repost it for you guys because as you say it was so far out, never thought I would read something
like this from one of Australia's most respected newspapers.

Wirraway
,

[aero979]

first of all - i don't want to hear that word terrorism again!

Secondly - where do you stop?? I mean if someone has now thought of using wooden stakes as weapons... there are so many other things you can use as weapons that you could get through security, such as the above mentioned aerosol cans and a lighter - then they give you cutlery on board!! If you just want to cause some trouble... a couple of forks embedded in someone will have the same effect.

The thing i don't agree is the type of people security focus on. I was in maroochydore a few weeks ago, and they had a 7 - 8 year old boy with no shoes, no watch, no belt no nothing sending him through that security screen time after time after time... poor kid was almost in tears... he had no idea what was happening.

And then you see some maintenance bloke walk between the screens and no one stops him??? it is not that hard to get a uniform you know.

[Buster Hyman]

:eek: Gnadenburg. He wouldn't have a surname that's shared with a river in PER would he?????:eek:

(Ahh, just saw his name in the paper, not the Greg I was thinking of, but one I knew anyway. Well done GK!) :ok:

[Dan Kelly]

Barber's Pole,

I can't comment for all airlines, but for several years now the airline I work for has favoured plastic 'zip' ties, similar in concept to electricians cable ties.

WRT the article in the Australian, it really p!sses me off the way the journos make what was probably a sound and normal return to base sound like the pilot could only just hold it together and that s/he didn't choose the scenic route into Melb!! :* :yuk:

[Desert Flower]

It's just a shame that the crew & passengers that sat on this moron didn't smother him in the process!! :E

[Waste Gate]

Barber's Pole

Can't speak for Qantaslink, but mainline have similar restraint equipment to those you mentioned, and security training for Cabin Crew.

WG.

[sirjfp]

Just heard on the radio. A 40 year old , David Mark Robinson , of east Bentleigh , Victoria was the culprit. Ex colleagues of this guy said that he was an English chap , who had been in Australia for about 5 years , working as a computer and I.T engineer.

Was a friendly co worker , who lived by himself and had left the company after a falling out with a superior 6 weeks previously.

He had no apparent religious convictions and was just a normal type of chap .

I'm sure that Greg would be bemused by all this publicity and ,from all his ex ansett mates , get well soon and don't let that prick Dixon milk you for too much publicity . He was having a field day on this morning's radio.

You are a true gentleman and your bravery , and that of your crew will be forever remembered.

[jerrry]

Have heard people say that the QF Cabin Service is Fecked, but this is a tad extreme!!!!!!!!!

[Cap10 Caveman]

They should have put him at the back of the plane in the aisle just before landing and used max braking, let him get to the cockpit door that way, hopefully breaking a few bones along the way. Let's just hope the punishment he ultimately gets fits the crime!

[Winstun]

You are a true gentleman and your bravery , and that of your crew will be forever remembered. :yuk:
Give me a friggin bone....basic human reaction now, Down a hijacker and save your life.........:hmm:

Let's just hope the punishment he ultimately gets fits the crime! Doubtful. Based on Australia's quality of judges. Rivkin..........need I say more? :rolleyes: While murderers in Australia serve an average 12 years in jail. Judge job application system needs a serious overhaul.

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

zzyyxx. You are truly a filthy degenerate for even daring to suggest such a thing. Your comments are just ridiculous.

The purser concerned is a fantastic bloke and true gentlemen. The same cannot be said for the likes of you zzyyxx. Perhaps some caution should be used when airing the training levels of differing airline operations with regards to security. Being a world wide web.

Best of luck to all concerned. Great to see that most aviation proffesionals band together when something like this happens.

[Knave]

Got to commend the flight attendant who fought this guy off. It cant get much scarier than having a nutter attack your head with sharpened stakes.
Of course the silliness doesnt end when the plane lands. That piece in 'The Australian' obviously came from the color-by-numbers school of journalism. Its an example of why they had to give away free copies of that paper last year in order to keep the circulation figures up. Channel Nine also maintained its proud tradition of being the proverbial blunt object by going to the airport this morning with a crew and interviewing a line of passengers with the question ' arent you afraid?'. They cut that session short when it became apparant the passengers werent really appreciating the moment.

[sirjfp]

Winstun ,

This cabin crew member , according to eye witnesses kept wrestling and forcing this guy back , despite being stabbed, and kept resisting repeated attempts to keep stabbing him . That is truly a brave act and , yes, I for one will forever remember it.

And yes , this chap is a true gentleman .

Winstun , you are just a true tosser .

[Boomerang]

Gaunty,

Don't you dare whinge if next time they do take your $80 pencil off you!

I am quite happy with security. At least weapons such as guns and grenades will be picked up. As you have seen, stabbing type weapons can still get on board, fortunately the brave pax and crew on board the aircraft managed to subdue the guy. You can't seriously expect every potential weapon to be kept of the aircraft. What about a sachet of some toxic substance, these guys are after all, suicidal?

[Winstun]

That is truly a brave act and , yes, I for one will forever remember it I'm gonna friggin barf :yuk:

despite being stabbed, and kept resisting repeated attempts to keep stabbing him :confused: :rolleyes: :hmm: :zzz:

[Lusimtingting]

Winstun

You are truly a fool

[blueloo]

Nobody seems to make a difference between QF mainline and Qantas link / Impulse - to me the techies did not look like QF mainline drives. (The press made all reference to QANTAS)

Is this to say when there is a positive outcome Qantas will take praise, yet if it had a bad outcome, then Qantas would ensure that it was made clear to the public that it is not a QANTAS incident ??

Additionally, seeing that there is a big white rat on the tail of QFlink planes, how can QF distance themselves in reality if an incidence occurs...............

And lastly...should there be a differentiation between QF and QF link ? ?

[AnsettStar]

One thing that cheeses me off is how the media jumps all over this. Suddenly it's only seconds between them and death yada yada yada. :* I've heard nothing official about anyone getting control of the a/c from the pilots. It looks to me more like extreme air rage.

Another thing, I think airlines need to have some sort of procedure for the aftermath of events like this. Grab the pax, put 'em in a conference hall or something, give 'em some counselling, and tell them to *shut the hell up* and not talk to the media about details like *he used pointy wooden stakes*. Geez, not even a half hour kater and it's all over the freakin' news!!! Now every nutcase in Oz will be trying the same thing.

Does this mean I can't wear hairpins any more coz I might stab someone with them??? Have been thru security many times with plastic chopsticks in my hair.... no one has ever batted an eyelid... yet they pull up my mate for having a bullet-shaped keyring... sheesh....

Wishing all involved swift recovery, good on you. Doing what you had to do.

AN*

[Evacu8]

QF Skywalker

If I were you, I would seriously consider your post (page 2).

Do you really want every nutter knowing what level of security training your company has completed with it's crew?

Surely information, such as that you have posted, would be better kept in-house? If you have concerns regarding your training, would it not be better to air them with youre management - rather than in a public forum..... I saw your post as an 'invite' to the rest of the nutters to jump on board one of your flights.

Although I am not with QFLink, I know they are separate entities, and you have no way of knowing what QFLink (Impulse) crews have been trained in, and Mr Dixon was referring to them.

Think about the big picture mate, you never know who reads these forums - you dont want to create a security problem within your own company, by airing your frustrations at a CEO from your company's parent ;)

My humble opinion only :)



Well done to those involved in the incident, you did a great job !!

[boofta]

FATASS you dumb bastard if only you had kept your big mouth
shut, the press would not have got this story and blown it out
of all preportion. Now we have a huge problem with the press
and bad publicity for QF and Sydney terminal shut down and
everyone worried about flying.Whats wrong with you, please stop
posting these malicious rumours you DUMBASS.

[Plane Speaker]

I thought it was merely an English habit to knock a hero from his pedestal. You Aussies have taken this trait to new heights. (No pun intended)
Whether sharpenned wooden stick or a knife, an intruder attempted to endanger the aircraft and the lives of those on board. The crew and passengers responded appropriately, whether trained or not. (I can't believe some of the open comments regarding levels of training posted on this Forum. Keep it private, please)

[Eastwest Loco]

I was told today that the first thing Greg said to a close relative in Tasmania (I believe he is Tasmanian, but stand to be corrected) was " There is no way that prick was getting access to my flight deck".

THAT is the attitude that makes Aussie commercial aviation a great place to be.

Well done Greg, the pretty female F/A with a big old shiner, and the passengers who helped.

MY flight deck!! What a brilliant comment and a sign of commitment to ones Airline. There is hope for the industry yet. This guy is one absolute gem.

Keep up the good work peoples, and all of us will try our best to watch your backs too.

EWL

[downtheback]

The media in CNS is already talking tonight about whether flying in Australia is safe. Please someone put a stop to their nonsense.

CNS relies on tourism. We have just absorbed the shock of Iraqi war and SARS. Now we are going to have another blowup on our tourism front.

Greg K, I remember you well from AN BNE . You have done well. Forget that QF is going to claim you as one of their well trained. While they have done their bit, as they have retrained many of us, we all know where your basic training came from.

Good on you!!!! Ex An Staff are proud of you

[mppgf]

Winstun
You can pontificate about this and that as you so often do.
Yes the media may **** on about the crew being heroes etc, but the people involved certainly have not.
The crew here or maybe one or two of them dealt with a situation that none of us would like to have to handle.Nobody knows how they would react in a situation like this untill they are actually living it and I would think that the way these people reacted is how most of us would like to think we would respond in a similar situation.
If you had ever been in a similar life threatening situation I doubt you would be making such snide remarks.
So do yourself a favour and stick to passing comment on something that actually means something to you instead of just trying to stir people up.
:hmm:

[Gnadenburg]

Winstun

Don't discount the following.

In any bar room brawl, close in fighting, no matter your boxing skills one often comes out with a black eye.

So in Greg's case he was very lucky not to lose an eye as sharp implements involved!

In any bar room brawl, adrenaline usually takes over and you see red. Often making good calls in judgement difficult.

In Greg's case he took the fight back into the cabin and away from the flight deck. Taking strikes to the head as he did so.

So I would suggest he displayed a rare combination of good judgement and bravery.

He did well and deserves a pat on the back. No doubt the media will go overboard. So what in this case.

Conversely, a poor call of judgement or hesitation would invite media, legal and of course, management crucifiction.

A thin line the latter!

Nice bloke and am sure the usually tight techies will buy him a round on his next overnight.

[Winstun]

Not puting down the crew, fully agree they did a good job. Expect no less of any crew or pax that meet the same.

But, THAT is the attitude that makes Aussie commercial aviation a great place to be. and other pulling your chain comments are not only nauseous, but being the holder of an Australian passport, make me cringe with embarassment.

[Gnadenburg]

Winstun

Your tone has mittigated toward accolades for the crew somewhat. Which is good.

What you expect in aviation and what you get are two different things. Human Factors really.

There were many possible outcomes to the events on that flight. Not all crews/passengers would have displayed the reflex bravery and good judgement witnessed.

Your a hard man and remember it may not always finish in the cabin. Human factors!

[mo_gravy]

Federal agent Stephen Cato confirmed the incident was a hijack attempt.
hasnt cato has come a long way since his early days as inspector clouseau's chinese maniac sidekick...


yours,

gravy™

[Eastwest Loco]

Grow a brain Winstun. It will probably save you from a nasty cranial implosion.

Greg and the other crew and SLF did a great job in this case so accept it.

If the same attitude was taken on Sep 11, apart from UA53 where it would appear the passengers and crew did fight back then maybe it would be a different world today.

What is your problem? Was it raining film stars and you caught Woody Allen?

Sheesh!

EWL

[Winstun]

Gnadenburg,
Things can always be better or worse. Crew or pax, you do your best on the day whatever that might be. And this lot sure did well, there is no doubt. I say well done!

However, as an Australian, what I can't bear is people of the likes of EWL with their repetitive, patriotic, kindergarden pandering drivel.
the pretty female F/A with a big old shiner
MY flight deck!! What a brilliant comment and a sign of commitment to ones Airline
If the same attitude was taken on Sep 11............then maybe it would be a different world today.
Makes me wanna puke.

[Eastwest Loco]

Winstun

I can only assume you are not involved in travel. If you are, then the airline or company involved has a huge aggrivated wart on its butt.

Please God, you do not hold a commercial license. Same question one more time. What in hell is your problem?

Is the medication not working?

Puke away bucko. Some of us actually adore the industry we work in.

How are things at the shallow end of the gene pool?

EWL

[Eastcoasting]

All well and good for Geoff Dixon to be sprouting off about airport security and flight deck doors but we all seem to forget about the "little" Qantaslink flyers Eastern Australia Airlines and Sunstate Airlines.

Lets just ask our fearless leader what type of security there is at regional airports for the flying public, pilots and solo operator cabin crew aboard Dash 8 aircraft and wait for a response!

Ahhh.......is that the sound of back pedalling I can hear!!

Yes passenger and baggage security screening is vitally important, but are 36 or 50 pax in a Dash less important? Look at our regional airports and you'll have the answer to that one.

[Winstun]

5 ATPLs.

EWL, ok I didn't realize you were a travel agent. No further comment.:rolleyes:

[Transition Layer]

What about Little Johnny's form! From today's SMH -

I think the bravery of the steward and hostess and the instantaneous reacton of the passengers has been fantastic

Come on Johnny, it's 2003 mate! Spose he still asks his chaufeurr to change the channel on the wireless!!!

:D
TL

[Hugh Jarse]

When I heard Dixon talk about "hardening" flight deck doors on JETS I nearly choked:yuk:

Don't know of any jets that go to his precious Wagga Wagga however.

When I do my Evil Empire sojourn ;) once or twice a month I see quite a few Cabin Crew heading upstairs for "security training" in M148. None from our precious Sunstate/Eastern, though. Airconnex have been going there for quite a while, so the course must work:ok: Well done to the crew:ok:

I saw the male FA on telly this morning exhibiting clear signs of PTSD. I hope he (and his colleague) are being taken care of by the company.

I do believe us lowly turboprop crews will be given "security training" in the near future........

In the meantime, the crash axe is but a small stretch away.......

Winstun, pull your head in.

[Eastwest Loco]

Winstun - bite me!

You are a sad individual indeed. I am simply between airlines. You?

EWL

[404 Titan]

Eastwest Loco

This clowns comments are just as bad on other threads I have seen him on. He never has any constructive comments so lets all just ignore him. Like a bad smell he will just go away.

:yuk:

[Eastwest Loco]

Thanks 404 for the heads up.

I had kind of figured his dropkick was PPruNe herpes. Erupting at the least convenient time and impossible to get rid of.

EWL

[amos2]

C'mon guys, Winstun's post aren't that offensive!

Let's not get too carried away here!

[Winstun]

404 Titan,
Are you suggesting EWLs comments are constructive? Just what I am against, inconstructive pandering drivel.
The only offensive comment I see here isIf the same attitude was taken on Sep 11, apart from UA53 where it would appear the passengers and crew did fight back then maybe it would be a different world today. EWL, smarting over 'the attitude' of the crew/pax that died on the three other 9/11 planes, disgusting.

[Kaptin M]

Full accolades to GREG KH@N and DENISE - the 2 F/A's who intervened - along with the passengers.
You did something that many people would also HOPE they are capable of doing, if confronted with a similar situation.

On a day-to-day basis, in a mundane way, many prove that they are NOT the LEADERS you both proved yourselves to be.

How many times have you sat behind the first car at traffic lights, only to see them change from RED to GREEN..to GREEN....to GREEN...to GREEN - but not move until the person BEHIND stimulated them, by honking.

In this case, GREG and DENISE took the INITIATIVE, as opposed to having to be "stimulated" by someone else.

That "stuff" doesn't come from external training - it comes from within.

And - in a laboured sort of way - I believe that THAT is what Winstun is saying in his posts. He is (perhaps because of his youth), non-understanding of others who offer thanks and admiration to GREG and DENISE for doing what he(?) considers "human nature".
Be assured, Winstun, it isn't!
However, rather than bag others, try to understand what I have written.
GREG and DENISE were afforded the opportunity to do something EXTRA-ordinary, and they passed the test with exemplary standards.
If..when...your time comes, Winstun we ALL hope that YOU are similarly recognised!! :ok:

[Binoculars]

The big-dicked Winstun and his macho posturing need no further comment from me.

To move the thread slightly in one direction, I address this to EWL, who on Page 2 unapologetically insinuated that the hijacker would turn out to be , shall we say, non true-blue even if notionally Australian.

EWL, I think most Australians would have thought the same thing, indeed I plead guilty in the first degree, having suggested to my daughter after listening to the news bulletin that said gentleman's name would unlikely be Smith, rather a Zrinzevic or Mohammed of some variation.

The truth has cause me once again to look inside myself and be ashamed at what I see. So quick to make false assumptions, so loathe to admit we are both wrong and have in some way contributed to the process continuing.

Perhaps you could at least acknowledge the same thing, EWL?

[Winstun]

Kaptin,
I disagree. 9/11 changed the world and I say: it is human nature. It better be. Hijacking = Death, Survival = Human nature. Not saying we could all do as good a job as this lot but we sure are gonna try. No question (You people are scaring me if you do question). Turning these crew into 'media heroes' could well erode that. Airline pilots better have faith in this modern human nature, cause it's the pax that are gonna save your asses (purely by numbers) from suicide attacks in the future. We do not want people to THINK they can rely on the crew to save the day.

No, personally I would not want to be recognized. Kind of like when you return someone's lost wallet and they thank you for 'your honesty'. I find that quite repulsive. Well, I have had times and I have saved some lives before, no big deal, it's human nature.:ok: The big-dicked Winstun Yeah, what about it..........:hmm:

[Kaptin M]

Airline pilots better have faith in this modern human nature...
:confused: Nothing "modern" about the 'survival instinct', Winsie - however whilst some people will stand and fight, others will run away to try to survive.

:rolleyes:I have saved some lives before, no big deal, it's human nature:rolleyes:http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/joker.gif
And just as you say in your previous post, "it's the pax that are gonna save your asses (purely by numbers)", it's the same "weight of numbers" here, that are telling YOU to wind your neck in a little.
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/flash.gif(The big-dicked Winstun )

[Winstun]

others will run away to try to survive.
Are you friggin serious?!! Run to and survive exactly where, may I ask? Please tell :ooh: Kaptin, I have operated in active war zones and saved several lives. Whether you believe me is of no concern to me. And whether you and some of these other children dislike my informative comments, I give as much consideration as to when I will next clean my toenails. :zzz: I am educating the wider audience. Why don't YOU pull your neck in, you might learn something.:rolleyes:

[Kaptin M]

One flew over the cuckoo's nest - and landed HERE methinks.

I have operated in active war zones and saved several lives You don't happen to have a brother by the name of Walter (family name Mitty), do you, Winsie?!!

I am educating the wider audience. ...and for that we are eternally grateful, oh great Guru!!:hmm:

[Winstun]

Typical childlike Australian tall poppy putdown syndrome. Clearly evident you don't like me or the fact that I have valid information. Does the fact I am right make you uneasy? And with no constructive points of view, you resort to personal attack. Moderate, modest and mild, what high aspirations :rolleyes:

Please answer the question:however whilst some people will stand and fight, others will run away to try to survive. They will run to and survive exactly WHERE?

[Mr Seatback 2]

Winstun,

Whilst I feel you do raise some valid points re: human nature and instinct driven survival skills, you're assuming each passenger aboard each flight would be ready to assist crew and fend off would-be hijackers.

In the case with QF1737, many passengers have been quoted in the press that they 'sat there shocked, not knowing what to do'. Fortunately for the Purser, he received assistance from his brother in law (who happened to be aboard), a former UN officer and a couple of other passengers in the vicinity.

Whilst your training, upbringing, etc. may have made this situation very cut and dry for you (ie. race up and help prevent a disaster from occurring), for other passengers this choice may not have been made possible due to 'fright vs flight'.

It is exactly the same scenario with emergency evacuations. You will find there are two groups of passengers who, when thrust into the situation of having to escape a lethal situation themselves, do one of two things:
1) Escape the aircraft via any possible means (climbing over seats, passengers, etc); or
2) Freeze in shock, unable to absorb the events and instructions around them

This is not dissimilar to hijacking situations - you will often find that there are passengers who won't involve themselves for whatever reason (ie. they have children on board the aircraft and don't want to bring any 'unnecessary' attention to themselves, they don't know what to do or how to assist, etc.)

The crew onboard this aircraft employed their training along with basic human instinct to survive. To be able to employ both training and instinct together in a second takes a skilled individual. The Police force, Defence Forces, etc. all train candidates to a similar degree of readiness to deal with situations of this nature (I am not saying that cabin crew receive the same training as these occupations either).

There are people in the Police and Defence forces whom I am sure have, in dangerous situations (and history has proved this), been either unable to act or make decisions essential to the success of the individual. Greg and his crew were fortunate enough to be not only well trained, but they also acted in a way necessary to prevent the hijack being a success. Much kudos to them and their performance.

Whilst I am sure you are probably extensively trained in this area Winstun, I suggest that for everyone's sake you modify your comments given the extraordinary efforts displayed by these crew in containing this incident. I don't normally agree with Kaptin M, but I have to on this occasion as his points have merits in addition to yours.

Yes, the crew were doing their job, and their basic human instinct to survive obviously helped combined with their training. However, do not discount the efforts of these individuals as anything less than superb.

If you have a problem with them being labelled as heroes, then I suggest you aim your criticism at the media, who will always blow stories of this nature into one extreme or the other. The crew have not asked for this attention (they certainly didn't ask for it by getting slashed!), and I know for a fact since the Press Conference on Friday they have been refusing to make any further comment to other press agencies and publications. And this has been their choice - no one elses.

Just my two cents worth.

[HotDog]

Seatback, a great post. Spot on! What a pleasant change to read something like this, so out of character on Dunnunda & Godzone.

[Buster Hyman]

Typical childlike Australian tall poppy putdown syndrome
Errr..isn't that what you are doing?
They will run to and survive exactly WHERE?
Apart from, probably, being metaphoric in this instance, I think some people retreat "inside" themselves. Perhaps this is the answer to your question.

Lets face it, most people don't like being labelled a hero. Most people deny it when given that tag by a journo with a mike in their face, that doesn't diminish their actions or whether accolades are warranted. I recall many years ago an AN 727 emergency at BNE where, allegedly, the crew (FA's) were the first off! Their survival instinct was to flee ASAP and (whilst I don't wish to cast dispersions without knowing the facts of the matter) this is why Greg & Denise are being held up as examples & trundled out the next day to face the media (not something I would've done!).

PS. EWL is passionate about aviation in this country. WTF is wrong with that? Besides, there's not much else to get excited about down in DPO!!! ;) :E :E

[Kaptin M]

To the point, and a quality, factual posting, Mr Seatback - however, I think it's wasted energy on Winstun, whom - unlike the 2 F/A's around which this topic revolves and who are AVOIDING publicity - has been quick to start extolling his OWN hero-like status.
Not surprisingly he is loud and long in displaying his ignorance of the fight/flight syndrome (inherent in all animals) with his, "Please answer the question:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
however whilst some people will stand and fight, others will run away to try to survive.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They will run to and survive exactly WHERE?

It doesn't take too much to see that our "friend" Winstun is something of a head case when one reads gems such as:
"Typical childlike Australian tall poppy putdown syndrome"..."Does the fact I am right..."..."And whether you and some of these other children dislike my informative comments, I give as much consideration as to when I will next clean my toenails."..."I am educating the wider audience."

Delusions of grandeur.

Go back and study those 5 ATPL's that are eluding you, Winnie, THEN come back here.

[Winstun]

Mr Seatback,
Excellent comments and I do not discount the efforts of these individuals as anything less than superb. My comments were only, and always, directed to some of this repetitive, pouting, stroking pat-on-the back behaviour. Some here regard it as passionate, but I find tiring and nauseating. Well aware of fight/flight instincts of animals (I have a degree in this field). I am quite aware of the shock syndrome, certainly this was the hijackers decisive weapon in 9/11. However, humans have extensive learning capacity, and i would suggest that POST 9/11 : 'group 2 - freeze in shock' would certainly be in the great minority, crew or pax on any aircraft anywhere. Maybe a study could be conducted with 'fake hijaking operations' to confirm expected public reactions. Kaptin makes wild assertions that I am youthful, male (before I confirmed it), never operated in a warzone, never saved a life, and without 5 ATPLs. He has seems to have some delusion that I give much weight to his drivel. Or care. :zzz:

[Mr Seatback 2]

How about you both bury the hatchet and agree to disagree...? Or is this online 'war of words' too entertaining for you both to deny? :O

At least we all agree on one thing - the crew did a great job, nothing can detract from that.:D

[pullock]

I must admit, I have seen enough back patting now as well. It was well deserved however.

What Winston has said about behaviour in his last post I believe is correct,and is an interesting point, that fight/flight can be over-ridden by a conditioned response, and that post 11Th of the 9Th, the conditioned response would tend toward fight. This WAS clearly demonstrated the other day. I could only imagine how the experiment design would go to empirically prove these observations though!!

Nice post also Mr Seatback, it's people like you who put the service back in to customer service. :)

[Winstun]

I wasn't alluding to a 'controlled response'. POST 9/11 , terminating hijack attempts is the NATURAL response. People now know a hijack means dying (even if it may not all times be so). I think many here underestimate the air travelling public. If I am a pax experiencing a hijack attempt, second number one, I will be in attack motion. I hope you folks are right behind me.

[amos2]

Even if the hijacker has a gun against your wifes temple?

[Winstun]

Smartass. But not very smart at all for still failing to grasp the basic fact I have already outlined. That there will now be a NATURAL GROUP response from a majority of pax to any future hijack attempts. Doubtful that hijackers would have a gun to the temple of every partner (or even close) of every pax.
But to answer your question. In my case, if I had a wife, without question, YES. She is gonna die anyway.:rolleyes:

[Buster Hyman]

(I bet she's the one holding the gun!) ;) := :=

So, Winstun, you tackling the hijackers (and I agree that people now have the incentive to have a go at the hijackers) would not be heroic, by your reckoning? A fait acompli so to speak?

If, therefore, you tackled the hijacker & I went down the back, opened the door & jumped, we'd both be of equal standing as we both knew we were a fair chance of dying. Am I reading you right?:confused:

[Kaptin M]

..or if the hijacker's intent was merely to try to negotiate/blackmail, YOU, Dunstan have now spooked the guy into killing Amos' wife. ( I wonder if Winstun is still going to be of the same opinion when it's HIS head the hijacker is holding the gun (....or a needle and syringe, or sharpened stick (for the non-lateral thinkers).... to, and another Winstun is in "attack mode"...after all, "you're going to die anyway", aren't you Winstun)!!???

So Winstun, precisely what NEW facts have you presented to your "wider audience"?
Apart from your statement that you are THE man! If I am a pax experiencing a hijack attempt, second number one, I will be in attack motion.

From some of the stuff you've spruked here, you sound exactly like the sort of gung-ho cowboy we DON'T want onboard, when some looney sticks his head up.
Had you been aboard the TAA DC9 that was hijacked out of Coolangatta some years back, it's almost CERTAIN that the hijacker WOULD have blown the Captain's head off with the shotgun he had, and killed everybody, rather than the successful conclusion in Brisbane, where ALL survived.

Edit or a needle and syringe, or sharpened stick,

[amos2]

...now, what if this hijacker was holding a gun against your daughters temple? Are we still going to launch into Rambo mode?

[Chronic Snoozer]

Far be it from me to intrude, but this is an interesting thread. I have an ATPL but am not an airline pilot, don't have a degree, but have been a pax on a flight. (a few times);)

I think the example of someone put a gun to anyones head is irrelevant in this context as supposedly these don't get onboard aircraft, they weren't evident in the 11/9 scenario.

Mr Seatback's post was excellent and Winstun was quick to acknowledge this. I see merit both of these poster's comments and certainly don't disagree with Winstun's general thrust of over exuberance on the part of the media in reporting this event.

Some posters are playing the man not the ball.

Carry on.

[blueloo]

...I say chaps, dirty nappies at 5 paces!!!!


:}

[Winstun]

Some of you are all getting a little pedantic here, but here goes.
Buster, no me (and the others) tackling the hijackers would not be 'heroic', a good job or attempt I would accept. If you went down the back and jumped - or everyone did nothing- I would say you were almost guaranteed to die. I also say that myself and the wider public will be attacking the hijacker(s) and we will all have a more than fair chance of living. I agree with Chronic Snoozer guns not really relevant in the context I have been talking on, however I am sure it is (anything is) possible. Kaptin, I am certainly not a cowboy but I WILL NOT relent to any hijackers, and yes (like most) prepared to sacrifice my life, daughter if I had one, captain, others, etc..to save the many. It is the price we pay these days with rife suicide terrorism, negotiation cannot be contemplated. POST 9/11 IT'S A DIFFERENT GAME Hijacker's intent will not be recognized as anything other than a suicide/murder attempt. We, with our quick group pax efforts + cabin crew awareness training + new age cockpit doors expect to contain the threat to protect the flightcrew. It's all we got. Sure, in retrospect it may be found a hijack situation not to have been a suicide/mass murder threat with some life lost in consequence. But we can not risk that assumption now. The risk (of losing everyone) is too real and too great.

[Keg]

So those that were awarded the VC for gallantry and heroism in the direct contact with the enemy in combat operations didn't deserve to be labelled hero's because if they did nothing they all would have died and so they were only protecting their own backsides. That is your logic isn't it?

Geez. Fight or flight. To fight against a bloke who is better armed and more prepared is heroic. It doesn't matter what the possible outcome of failure is.

Here is a couple of definitions for you.

A man distinguished by exceptional courage and nobility and strength.

They certainly showed courage and strength and were noble in the aftermath so that fits the bill.


Someone who fights for a cause.

On this count too they more than fit the bill.

Pedantic? Maybe but at least the rest of us give credit where it's due. I hope if ever a flight I'm crewing has the same thing happens that the crew will react as heroically as these guys did.

[Ozgrade3]

I hope that QF look after the crew, the FA's in particular, offering and providing what ever counselling is needed. I can imagine they will be quite jumpy for some time. Its not a normal thing to go to work and be faced with that sort of unexpected, un anticipated crisis situation.

I was most shocked at the wound on Denises face, my god, less that an inch from loosing an eye.

I just wonder if the outcome would have been different had it been an all female cabin crew, some of the girls are quite petit in stature. This is in no way intended to be a negative comment on the ability, effectiveness etc of female FA's what so ever. And to think CASA is trying to REDUCE the numbers of cabin crew where ever they can. Sheer folly.

There is no shame about being passionate about what you do, your job, your industry, your airline. The 'my cockpit" comment from the Purser is typical of people who are passionate about their job. The industry neeeds more people like that, in particular , more people like EWL.

[Winstun]

Ozgrade, yes I would expect the crew to be looked after particularly well. I say give them all a 1 month 5 star holiday anywhere on the airline network. What you mention about different outcomes with a different crew. Well that's life ain't it? There could be a set of hardened black belt stewards, a geriatric grey panther pax set, two dozen highly trained middle-east suicide attackers. Lots of combinations, lots of outcomes. We can only all do our best. Whether that be kicking their ass (in my case) or freezing in shock or whatever. But Keg, I do not think you should have to HOPE the crew would react as heroically....You should EXPECT (demand) that most of the pax will react naturally. BECAUSE frankly we are angry, mad, ferocious, pissed off and not gonna put up with this hijack sh*t. I think many here underestimate the wider public feeling. Keg I take your point about how people like to recognize/be recognized for heroic type behaviour. In a moderate manner I accept. Personally, I don't go for it. Many of these suicide terrorist I expect would liken themselves to your hero definitions.

[Kaptin M]

Based on ACTUAL hijackings, pre and post 911, the objectives were usually politically motivated and haven't resulted in the loss of all lives on board as a result of deliberately crashing the aeroplane.
However, 911 has made us all aware that that is the most extreme outcome possible.
The "old" strategy was to accede to the hijacker's demands to AVOID loss of life during the ordeal, and it worked in almost all cases generally resulting in the capture of the hijacker(s) as well.

Winstun's "theory" of allowing a hijacker to murder a hostage (or 2 or 3)..... "BECAUSE frankly we are angry, mad, ferocious, pissed off and not gonna put up with this hijack sh*t.".... is unintelligent, irresponsible, and too gung-ho.

In Greg and Denise's case they read the situation, and took control BEFORE a hostage scenario was allowed to develop.

Certainly the prime objective remains of having the aircraft remain solely under the control of the pilots, by restricting the hijacker to the cabin, until it can be landed.

That does NOT necessarily mean attacking the hijacker(s) when a resultant loss of life is a strong possibility.

[Winstun]

On the contrary. My theory is responsible. It is responsible that pax will accept sacrifice of some life with the potential to save most life. Even forgetting about the potential life lost on the ground The 'old' stategy does not work in the new age. These people had only a one 'amateur' individual to deal with. But serious trained professionals will not give you this TIME to 'read' the situation, as was the case in 9/11. This is their weapon. We can expect much more suicide action in the future. Certainly, a few seconds can be taken to assess your moves. But I think any hijackers should EXPECT that they will be attacked swiftly and completely irrespective of their intent. Let this be our clear message. I am concerned at some of the mindset here. Maybe a survey/study needs to be done on expected public reactions. If the general public are not sufficiently aware of their life risk in a hijack situation, we better educate them that they need to ACT or expect to die. There needs to be a school education program instituted worldwide on hijack threat and rapid response.

[SydGirl]

To Greg, the Purser aboard that flight :

goodonyamate for a job well done! Greg and Denise were just doing their jobs. If that makes them heroes, then so be it.

There's not many jobs where you're in a confined space and some nutcase decides he's going to attack you with sharpened wooden pieces of wood. Greg and Denise did exactly what they've been taught to do in their ground schools and security training.. plus a bit of instinct and initiative for good measure.

Greg, your Ansett family is very proud of you.

However.... I was disgusted and mortified that QF allowed the crew to appear on TV and even answer press questions. What a disgraceful, low act - whatever happened to confidentiality? The crew should be counselled and assisted, not paraded around in front of media to be scrutinised and judged on their behaviour and wounds! I certainly hope that QF has gotten the whole crew proper psychological help in order for them to deal with their trauma.

And that's my two cents.
SG
:p

[Buster Hyman]

Yes, we need more ex AN staff in the air it seems!!!;) :p ;) :p

Winstun, if you wouldn't mind just answering my question, I'll try to get off your back. BTW, just curious, not pedantic.

[Sonny Hammond]

:yuk: I'd do this...I'd do that. Give me a break.

Unless tested you people are all dreaming about your own (in)abilites.

Cut the cr@p, you sound like idiots.


These people did, thank god.

[one ball]

Winstun said it all but has become bogged down in a war of attrition.

Now Sonny Hammond has summed up another relevant truth in even fewer words.

Key points:
-The crew did an outstanding job due to their instinct for self-preservation and sense of outrage thrown in, perhaps.
-The media has jumped all over it and applied 'labels', as they are wont to do.
-The armchair analysers take it apart here and talk BS about what they'd do if it happens to them.

All facts of life.



------------------------------------------------------------
Just like the sound of one ball slapping