Success rate of RAF pilots?

[SACKITOFF]

I have been provisionally selected to start IOT in October, for the general duties branch of pilot. I have always wanted to be a pilot, whether air force or commercial, and would not be prepared to consider any other branch; consequently I was over the moon when I heard the news that I had been provisionally selected.

I have heard rumours from different people that the RAF is desperate for pilots at the moment, as so many are failing to complete the training milestones. Some people quote a success rate of only 30%. This has been worrying me, as it seems you have a high chance of being told you are not going to make it early on in JEFTS, having completed at least 6 months of IOT, and spent the best part of a year applying to OASC.

Could anyone shed any light on the success/failure rate in the flight training stages, and possible reasons for failure? I have a PPL already, which might help a little, and I am prepared to work extremely hard at it to prevent failure, but when people are quoting these figures, it does make me wonder if I am wasting my time.

I would be grateful of any response

Cheers

[Arty]

a. No, you are not wasting your time if you really want to do it, although if you join with the attitude that you are wasting your time, your chances of failure will be a lot higher and you shouldn't really be there.

b. I would not worry about success and failure rates. Basically if you are good enough you will get through and it will be very rewarding. The pass rate is different on every course and even if it was 30%, which I doubt, what makes you think that you can't be in that 30%?

c. Good luck!

[Autorev]

Question:

Are you prepared to spend up to 6yrs training before you reach a squadron?

If the answer isn't an unequivocal'' ABSO - BLOODY - LUTELY!'', then maybe you don't have the dedication that the Royal Air Force are looking for. Whilst I sincerely hope that your training won't take that long, you can bet that a lot of your instructors will have spent that much time in the training system- and they could all have 'fallen at the last hurdle'. If you feel that discovering that you aren't up to it 3 or 4 yrs down the line would be too much to bear, then I suggest that you do sack it now.

Best of luck matey!

[Training Risky]

Sackitoff: JEFTS is a good foundation for whatever stream you go into. True there are many hurdles along the way. Your chances of being chopped depend almost as much on what you fly as it does your ability and aptitude.

If you get chopped from FJ you invariably go RW, as the ME system is chocka.

If you get chopped from RW before Wings, you might get another chance at ME (doubtful these days since ALL multi mates are staying right where they are thank-you-very-much, as the job market outside is a trifle 'slack'.)..... after Wings, you get shafted by PMA and lose them straight away, then go to a ground branch.

If you get chopped from ME, you're a monkey.;)


Most peeps get chopped for lack of 'capacity'. A lovely umbrella term that covers everything you do in the air. Two things can improve your 'capacity':

1. Be better!!! (Don't laugh, some QFIs/QHIs actually used to say this!)

2. Be as prepared for each sortie as you can possibly be. Rehearse every drill, check, SOP, RT call and action, over and over again. (That's the best advice I have.)


Good Luck;)

[Tonkenna]

Sackitoff

Don't get all worked up about it, just work as hard as you can. It is your instructors job to get you through and they will work very hard to do so beleive me. Oh, and don't rely on your PPL stuff, its very different.

Tonks

PS. JEFTS is dead, see you on a DE Flt at a UAS (especially if your on 69 cse ?)

[Pass-A-Frozo]

I'm in the RAAF and my success rate over the last few years has been dismal. Just can't find any quality women who take an interest..:ouch:

[jungly]

Lets face it if the FAA are in the bar then the Crabs have no chance of success with the ladies.

Are you serious 6yrs to front line?! It took us 22months ('88/'89). Que sera. Modern efficiencies I guess.

Sackitoff: just be prepared to eat, drink, sleep and sh1t aviation for a few years! Thousands will never get the opportunity you have.
Finally, when its time to work....work hard....and when its time to play... play hard. Try to enjoy the challenge and remember what made to apply, dream and aspire in the 1st place!
Sod the statistics.... if you think youre going to fail....... you will.

[SACKITOFF]

All good comments, which put my mind at rest.

After writing the last post I decided that even if I did get the chop from flight training, nothing done previously (i.e. IOT, or JEFT) would actually be a waste of time. It is all useful experience which you couldn't even begin to gain from a job outside the forces.

I am very lucky to have been put in this position, and I know it is exactly what I want to do. It will definately be the hardest challenge I will ever face, but I have decided not to worry about failure, and just work as hard as I can at it and be extremely determined.

Cheers

[MadsDad]

There is one thing about the 'RAF desperate for pilots' situation that seems to prevent situations similar to that which happened to a friend of mine some time ago happening now.

He joined the RAF as a pilot, long time back (about 20 years). He had got through pilot training to the point where he was flying Jet Provosts (he had done 3 flights on them I believe) when 80% of his course were 'chopped' - and he wasn't in the top 20%. As he said his course was no better or worse than the previous course, of which only 50% were chopped, it was just that they didn't need that many pilots at the time.

As far as I can tell now nobody gets chopped as 'surplus to requirements' - you just have to be good enough (and, as an outside observer, that means very good indeed). Best of luck anyway - everyone I have met who has gone through the training, whether or not they succeded, has gained from it. (And it seems to be about 3 1/2 years currently from EFT to FJ Squadron).

(And for information the freind of mine above left the RAF and went to work for a bank. He got fed up with that, spent 2 years (and a lot of money) getting his commecial licence and is now a BA Captain).

[jayteeto]

I work in the flying trg system and I am telling you now that it does not take 6 years to get to a sqn unless you are the famous Gaulty who flew just about everything in the trg pipeline. (hopeless motorcylist). Training IS hard work, but this 30% figure is someone trying to wind you up. Forget all that, get stuck in and enjoy yourself. The advantages still outweigh the disadvantages.

[witchdoctor]

Look on the bright side. You mentioned the possibility of going commercial instead. Chances of success there for a low hours, non rated pilot - less than 1% currently. So even in your worst case mil scenario, you have a 30 times greater chance of success than as a civvy.

The glass is always half full.

[BEagle]

Jungly - the only reason the women go for you matelots in the pub is because they've heard about soap dropped in the shower, golden rivets and the like in your floating grey box - and they just want to teach you what the other slot is for;)


Re pilot training - mate, if you've been selected these days you must be good. Just remind yourself of that. Get ahead of the game throughout your training and put in as much effort as you can. Don't have that third pint the night before your progress check - go back to your room and swot up. Your PPL training may help - it rather depends upon where you were trained. At least you'l be familiar with medium level navigation unlike most UAS people, many of whom probably have difficulty finding their own ar$ehole without a mirror!

Good luck - you can do it!

[Spacer]

Hey SackitOff, I have also been selected for Oct (well, hopefully Oct cse), and I'll see you there. Good luck!

PS: Tonks, yes that means it will be RIP Spacer on Scotland's finest.

<Edited for poor studentesque spelling>

[Horrace]

30% success rate! No way

The official word from the chiefs at Linton recently was that we are losing 20% of BFJT students to the RW and ME worlds. The failure rate at valley was said to be only 5%.

However during my course at Linton, which I recently completed, I don't think we lost anywhere near as many as 20%.

Good luck with IOT sackitoff. It might seem crap at the time but you will only remember the good stuff.

[Obs cop]

SACKITOFF,

You seem to have a minor obsession with failure/being chopped. You have already done one of the hardest parts by getting into the system, even if you had to stoop to the level of the RAF rather than Her Majesty's finest the Fleet Air Arm.

You have beaten thousands to get your place so you have won a chance many will never see. Military aviation is the most demanding and rewarding flying available, and the training reflects this. As a result, dedication and effort pay dividends. If it wasn't meant to be then you will have lost nothing and gained a massive amount. But, if you continully muse over the idea that a lot of people get chopped and what if you are one of them, you are only making it harder work for yourself.

Enjoy it and work hard. In the flying courses, you only need worry about the next flight/exam, anything else is wasting valuable brain power!

PS. Don't forget that you get paid to train and fly unlike the vast majority of civilian counterparts.

[caspertheghost]

Success rates vary over time, when I went through recently from BFJT to the end of AFJT we lost 33% of our course which was a tad higher than normal. Rest assured though that there are no quotas to be filled, if you are good enough you will get through.
Best advice I can give you is to keep your head down at IOT and do what you're told, then work hard throughout flying training. It is damn good fun and you will make many good friends, although not all will make it. Let's hope you do!
Best of luck, Casper.

[salami upyerbum]

Mate,

If you don't try, you'll never know how good it could have been. If you are as dedicated as you sound, you'll have no snags. In my experience, you should never listen to any stats or doubting people because these are usually the ones who aren't up to the job and are jealous of those who are. If you want to experience this in the short term, run a marathon and then talk to somebody who hasn't!

You have to ask yourself the question: do you want to spend the rest of your life wondering what may have been?

Good luck

:ok:

[Dunhovrin]

Sakkers,

Someone's got to pass why not you? All the figures bandied about about failure rates imply that there is a % failure rate structured into the system. There ain't: If your whole course are biffs you all fail - if you're all gods you all get Pumas (err I mean pass).

And another thing to not worry about. Ignore the studes ahead of you when they start the war stories about how hard Spinning 3 or FNT (FNC?) or any other trip is. I remember thinking "If he finds it hard how am I going to hack it?". But then you do it and it's not so bad (generally).

My only advice as a master of mediocrity is: your instructors will do all they can for a tryer no matter how trying he is. It's gob****e Kiwis with no ability but lots of mouth that struggle (struggled).

Let us know how you get on.

[flyboy007]

Dunhovrin. Was that a slur on all Kiwi pilots or one in particular?I aint that one, but if it was a slur on all, then I'm gonna have to come back here and put you back in your box!

[brit bus driver]

Used to be pretty good, back in the old singley days..........:ok:

Still, going ugly early always helps.........:} :8 :E

Have I got the wrong thread...............

;)

[The Ugly Fend Off]

Did someone mention going ugly early?

[raytofclimb]

Some top advice there and you made the right choice mate.

Just as those stickers were supposed to say:

Failed OASC?
FLY NAVY


Ray.

[thermoluminescent]

Ignore the stats, they won't pass or fail you - only your ability and attitude will do that. I used to be paranoid about the 'chop rate' et al, but I eventually learnt that they are just numbers - if you are good enough, you'll get through.

Yours in their lunchbox,

T