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aviator_38
25th May 2003, 10:41
Hi...

received the following this evening,with the comment that " it is unlikely that the SIA Pilot Union will win this round,considering the pressure that it now faces . "


Cheers

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http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/topstories/story/0,4386,190990,00.html?

SIA could lose $1b this year, warns PM

He says airline could go into 'intensive care unit' if pilots do not accept cost-cutting moves such as no-pay leave

By Lydia Lim

PRIME Minister Goh Chok Tong yesterday added the weight of his voice to urge Singapore Airlines (SIA) pilots to accept cost-cutting measures and warned that the carrier's losses could mount to $1 billion this year.

Wage cuts are needed to help the national carrier stay viable, he said, pointing to how passenger traffic has plunged since the start of the year.

Last month, SIA lost $204 million and it expects to make its first-ever quarterly loss.

Yesterday, Mr Goh said: 'SIA is in an emergency and if the management and the staff of SIA do not handle the situation well, SIA could well go into the intensive care unit.'

His comments to reporters after an event at Marine Parade Community Club come ahead of tomorrow's meeting between the pilots' union and the SIA management to discuss their differences over cost-cutting measures.

He was the third Cabinet minister in as many days to call on the pilots to settle these differences.

The pilots have refused to take 10 to 12 days of compulsory no-pay leave every two months unless SIA first releases 120 foreign pilots based overseas.

Mr Goh took the side of the airline's management yesterday when he made it clear that acceding to the pilots' request would send the wrong signal to foreigners, whom he said SIA needs as there are not enough Singaporean pilots and cabin crew to run its global operations.

If retrenchments are necessary, they should be based on merit, not nationality, he said. 'I hope the pilots can understand this. It is not in their interest to protect their jobs this way.

'The best way to protect their jobs will be to ensure Singapore Airlines remains a quality airline, having quality crew and quality pilots.'

Like Deputy Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and National Trades Union Congress chief Lim Boon Heng, who spoke on Friday, he pointed out that SIA's problems did not just start with the Sars outbreak.

Since the Sept 11 terrorist attacks on the United States, the airline industry has undergone massive restructuring to become more efficient and SIA has to do the same to survive the competition, he said.


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'Wages are an important indicator to foreign investors. If wages are sticky downwards - they go up but never come down - then they say this place is hopeless.'
- PM Goh, on the need to reduce wages and other business costs in order for Singapore to remain attractive to foreign investors
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British Airways, for example, has cut 17,000 jobs in the last two years and plans to slash its workforce by another 23 per cent this year.

To SIA's 1,600-strong pilots' union, Mr Goh had this message: It is during a time of crisis that a union shows its character.

'If the union now shows a selfish character and seeks to protect the jobs of its members, then I would be disappointed,' he said.

Mr Goh reminded the pilots that the Government has played a big role in building up SIA and creating jobs for them.

The negotiations for SIA's air traffic rights are done by the Government, he said. Its efforts in building up Changi Airport into a global air hub have also increased SIA's passenger traffic.

He called on the pilots to make personal sacrifices for SIA, which he called 'an icon of Singapore', but said that the Government would not intervene if negotiations reached a stalemate.

Turning his attention to the overall economy, Mr Goh focused on the importance of wage restructuring, a theme that is set to dominate the Government's agenda in the coming months.

He warned that if Singapore failed to reduce wages and other business costs during this economic downturn, foreign investors would in future give it a miss in favour of other cheaper places.

Costs in some countries, such as Malaysia, China and Hong Kong, have become lower relative to Singapore's because their currencies are pegged to the US dollar, which has depreciated, he noted.

'Wages are an important indicator to foreign investors,' he said.

'If wages are sticky downwards - they go up but never come down - then they say this place is hopeless.'


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http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/commentary/story/0,4386,190986,00.html?

Getting SIA on course
By Dominic Nathan

THE WAY I SEE IT

IF YOU still have any doubts that Singapore is going through its worst ever crisis, then you only have to look at the fortunes of Singapore Airlines, the flagship company of Singapore Inc.

In many ways a microcosm of Singapore, the airline is fighting the same triple threats of Sars, terrorism and a slowing global economy, while battling to save jobs and prevent a slide into the red for the first time in its 30-year history.

And both SIA and Singapore are at war while undergoing leadership changes.

A new team led by chief executive Chew Choon Seng has eased into the cockpit at SIA, just as Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong reshuffled his Cabinet to make sure a new generation of leaders is in place before 2007, when the next General Election is due.

The two new crews will be counted on to see both carrier and country through the most turbulent skies ever.

And the men at the helm are leading by example.

Ministers and top civil servants will take up to a 10 per cent cut in their monthly pay from July, bringing the total reduction in their salaries to 24-29 per cent overall, after an earlier round of cuts in 2001.

At about the same time on Thursday, SIA announced that 240 senior staff from the chief executive down will have their wages cut by between 22.5 per cent and 27.5 per cent.

But the real test for both teams will be in how well they can convince everyone down the line to accept wage cuts and even job losses.

SIA has already stumbled.

Its 1,600 pilots here have rejected a call for wage cuts across the board.

They argue that their 120 London-based colleagues earn more and suffer fewer disruptions to the lives because their rosters are planned well in advance, and they are not on standby duty.

Their solution to the airline's projected excess of about 100 pilots is to cut the number of pilots based overseas.

The dispute looks likely to go to arbitration, with no compromise in sight.

If it does, it will be the second time in nine months that mediators from the Manpower Ministry will be asked to referee a fight between the two.

After the last dispute over in-flight rest breaks ended in a MOM-brokered compromise in August, both sides had said they were going to chart a new course in their labour relations.

They are way off-course again.

And with the National Wages Council warning last week that more job cuts are in store, SIA's stumble could signal more resistance to suffering the pain of wage cuts and, more importantly, accepting the need for wage reform.

Perhaps, the current SIA dispute is not the best example to cite for making a case for wage reforms of the type the NWC is calling for.

But reforms are needed within the airline.

SIA had depicted its overseas-based pilots as being no different from other employees.

Former SIA chief executive Cheong Choong Kong had said: 'They will have to take their share of pain also, but no more and no less than any other pilot.'

The pilots association, however, argues that an across the board cut will not result in pain being shared equally because an existing disparity in the terms and conditions of service results in London-based pilots earning more and suffering fewer disruptions to their lives by not having to be on standby.

Simply chopping all foreign-based pilots while retaining poor performers on the local payroll is also not the solution.

Mediation efforts must go beyond finding a solution to the immediate problem and look at how labour relations between pilots and management can be brought back on course again, for good.

Then there will be no doubt that SIA will emerge from this crisis stronger than before.

(E-mail: [email protected])

stable approach
25th May 2003, 10:53
Notice that the 10-12 days unpaid leave and the 22.5% wage cut are never mentioned together in the same article.
Can't have the public knowing all the facts.

Lee
25th May 2003, 11:40
And the 7% pay cut we took after the Sept 11, 2001 terrorists attacks in the US, are not mentioned in the two articles too.

greybeard
25th May 2003, 15:14
Gidday,

Pay cuts for SIA.

Basic of say S$10,000.00/month as a guide which with "usual" allowances for IFA, Expat, Market force, night stop and meals, less rental debit can be $13,500.00 nett based on about 60 flt hours.

-22% 2,200.00 Flat pay cut
-20% 2,000.00 6 days of NPL/Month mooted as bloddy well
-20% 640.00 % of housing at max rate as mooted
- 1500.00 reduced flt hours
- 300.00 less meals/transport
= - 6640.00

So, nett is now S$6860.00

Now to the living bit,

Taxation 1500
Utilities 500
Transport 600
Schooling 2200 1100 per child, AFTER the subsidy Phone 500
TV/Net 100
Food 1000 family of 4 Expat orientations
Sundries 500
6900 WE HIT THE BIG NEGATIVE HERE

Now that is for an Expat, if you are here on local terms but are an "Expat" as quite a few are, goodness!!!!, it all starts at 10,00.00 as well but less Expat and schooling so you cannot stay as a family or possibly even as a "Single" with the troops at home country.

After 5 years on the 310, my basic is not quite at the 10,000 level and I don’t have kids at school but fit the numbers as you may it makes the whole thing a marginal exercise at best and going broke high on the cards.
Most people go O'seas as a way to make a dollar or two, survive an Industrial calamity, Company closure, divorce runner you name it BUT we need it to be a viable exercise. I could make more cutting grass for Jim's Mowing than remaining here.

To that end, I and a few others have already been terminated. Too old in my case for any upgrade.

Those who would see this as a way to "level" the pilots benefits, those who would remove the so called "unwanted", (already perhaps in some cases), those who will save the bottom line at the expense of all else are off and running at the speed of light.
They are so busy saving "FACE" it may well be their "ASS" that goes in the end.

There is no doubt the current situation is grim beyond anything I could imagine, over SIA 40 tails on the ground at Changi, half the bloddy fleet parked nose to tail.
BUT we are not the only Airline, look at Cathy and Dragon, so far they have hung in there.

I shall finish up this week as an active "Airliner", will as I have said before, MISS THE FLYING, but not the job.

sui generus

:ok:

Thermal Image
25th May 2003, 16:39
The well-publicised news of SIA upper management taking unprecendented pay cuts and the daily remarks from the powers that be can be recognised as psy ops or "softening the ground" ahead of something big. This is in addition to the PM's claim: "the Government would not intervene if negotiations reached a stalemate". Perhaps what he really means is: "Resolve your pathetic little problem NOW, ALPA-S, or don't come running to the us after SIA / the courts really screw you over".

As much as I would like to side with them, in these times of mounting losses, ALPA-S' call to sack all SIA (Mauritius) pilots makes sense ONLY IF ALL OF THEM earn more than ANY local.

Those of us with any semblance of logic will know this simply cannot be true.

To borrow a favourite phrase of ALPA-S they use when they criticise illogical management action: "why burn down the house because of one rat?"...

I ask, who is burning down the house now?

SIA (Mauritius) ie the "London-based" pilots that ALPA-S wants SIA to dump, work harder AND cost less AND are less troublesome (no union) than quite a few local pilots.

In other words, ALPA-S does not have a logical leg to stand on, to say nothing of a legal or even moral leg. Their position is therefore completely untenable.

Just one question: does the President of ALPA-S earn less than every SIA (Mauritius) pilot? As long as he earns more than even ONE London-based pilot then he is not morally fit to champion this cause of ALPA-S.

It is very clear that ALPA-S have a hidden agenda, that they are simply fearful of such independant pilots whom they cannot control or "influence" to fall in line with their causes. Their solution is therefore to get all these unbelievers sacked.

I say again, who is burning down the house now?

This selfish attitude of ALPA-S will get us ALL sacked and re-employed on new terms.

ALPA-S you have painted yourself as childish, petulant and selfish.

Imagine the following scenario: all SIA pilots, local and expat, given 3 months notice to quit. At the same time, offered re-employment on new terms by a non-subsidiary of SIA.

Since the Constitution of ALPA-S only allows SIA / subsidiary pilots to have voting membership, this would mean that the same pilots would lose their voting rights, supposing in the off chance that they even want to remain in ALPA-S.

So, in one elegant move, save money on salaries AND stuff up the ALPA-S. How convenient. Of course, there would be a new pro-establishment union, which in turn is a member of the NTUC.

Fantasy? Wait and see...

thegypsy
25th May 2003, 18:01
Thermal Image Those SIA Mauritius Pilots do not come that cheaply to SIA as you would have us all believe.

These Pilots pay no tax in Singapore thus losing the Singapore Government {the majority shareholder in SIA} some $30000 each per year plus the local economy also loses out because they spend their money outside Singapore. Most of these Pilots were not prepared to join SIA and be based in Singapore and most have also not been in the Airline that long apart from those who transferred out of mainline to live at home.

It is normal practice when job cuts are inevitable for 'Last in First Out ' to apply.

To keep all Pilots on the payroll at far lower salaries is not the way to run things,but for SIA is an ideal way of rubbing the pilot's noses for daring to not go along with the dictates of management without looking at the smallprint first.
Seconded Pilots are not technically employed by SIA and therefore should be the first to go IMHO. AlphaS is correct in its taking this attitude.

highcirrus
25th May 2003, 19:18
”SIA could lose $1b this year”, warns PM

Does Prime Minister Goh mean that the airline will not make its customary $1b profit for the year, that is, it will break even for fiscal 03/04 at zero profit, or does he mean that not only will the expected profit vanish but a further $1b will also be lost, hence bringing the total loss to $2b?

I ask because, if the former is the case, I have noticed nowhere, any reference to any SIA shareholder (read: Singapore Government + Major Singapore Institutions) being expected to shoulder any of the forthcoming pain, so readily commentated on, in respect of the airline’s employees.

I have similarly noted a dearth of information in respect of the precise SIA financial data on which such forecasting is based.

I feel certain that the entire SIA employee force would be a little miffed, to say the least, following what looks likely to shortly be imposed on them, at any spectacle, twelve months hence, featuring the directors’ satisfaction at having sustained a customary profit profile in the face of such previously daunting odds.

Thermal Image
25th May 2003, 21:00
>>Thermal Image Those SIA Mauritius Pilots do not come that cheaply to SIA as you would have us all believe.

thegypsy: My point is not that they (as a category) are cheap to SIA but that it is not logical to sack the whole lot when there are those within this group that earn less than a good number of locals. However ALPA-S want the entire lot to go first before those remaining will take no-pay leave or any pay cut.

>>These Pilots pay no tax in Singapore thus losing the Singapore Government {the majority shareholder in SIA} some $30000 each per year plus the local economy also loses out because they spend their money outside Singapore.

I don't think the government is bothered about this loss of revenue. In the first place if they were then the London-basing scheme would not have been approved. 120 of them make a paltry $3.6M contribution to income tax revenue at $30k a head. Of course the multiplier effect of them spending their salary in Singapore is a little harder to quantify, but it's probably just a drop in the ocean.

SIA claimed that for April they lost $200+M, and EVEN IF 50% of SIA belongs to the government, this means the government lost $100+M. Who cares about a piffling $3.6M "lost" in tax revenue in such a context?

>>Most of these Pilots were not prepared to join SIA and be based in Singapore and most have also not been in the Airline that long apart from those who transferred out of mainline to live at home.

Absolutely, that is their wish, just as any local is free to join such a scheme, so long as he has right of abode / residence in London or wherever the base is, a factor not determined by SIA. Which leads to another point. The expats have come and gone at a steady rate. However the locals seldom leave. Whether this is because they are not wanted elsewhere or they themselves don't want to go, it weakens any argument that they have been serving SIA loyally for 30 years or whatever the number may be.

You can only be loyal if you have a choice to leave but choose to stay. Expats who stay in SIA long are probably loyal, because they as a group have demonstrated their ability to come and go. However, locals in SIA who stay long are probably there because they have no choice. Of course this is a combination of nature and nuture (because for the 1950s-1960s baby boomers higher education was limited etc), then again expats of the same age have shown no disability to change employers.

>>It is normal practice when job cuts are inevitable for 'Last in First Out ' to apply.

This however gives rise to a paradox. In tough times you need to take drastic action to stem operational losses. Last in is usually most junior hence cheapest. Axing such staff is less efficient than taking a honest hard look at who is doing what for how much, and then axing those who cost the most but do the same thing as those who cost the least. Makes sense? What would you choose - cut headcount by 1 and stop losing $10000, or cut headcount by 1 and stop losing $20000?

Fortunately or unfortunately in SIA, the progression for a captain is linear - if you are meritorious you go on to SUC, LIP, IP and SIP. There is no branching off at any point to "senior captain". This means that all line captains are in the same "class". The difference in pay is meant to reflect cost of living increases, not experience. So, a line captain with 1 year line experience, to SIA, is able to do the same job as another line captain with 30 years experience, because they are on the same pay scale. If not there would be another pay scale to reflect and compensate for experience.

Therefore, since SIA thinks that all line captains are the same, why axe one that costs, eg $10,000 to keep, when there are others twice more expensive at $20,000 or more?

Expats have not been doomed to line pilot status, we've had quite a few who were SIPs. So they do have room to show their talent.

The logical and pragmatic solution is to categorise and then rank all pilots by appointment and then pay, then see who are the expensive ones nearing retirement and then let them go. They have already demonstrated this with the axing of some 310 and 340 pilots, who were "too old to be retrained for another fleet".

I don't think they will victimise the expats and spare the locals. PM Goh has already said that the expats are here for strategic reasons.

twitchy
25th May 2003, 22:20
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/singapore/story/0,4386,190870,00.html?



To survive, SIA 'must bear pain now'
Wage reform is the only way for airline to stay afloat as competition will get more intense in future, says Lim Boon Heng
THE competition for Singapore Airlines will only get more intense in the coming months and years and the company must respond by managing its costs.
And one key way to do so is to change its wage structure, said labour chief Lim Boon Heng.

'The drive for cost control and cost competitiveness is a brutal one in this industry. You either succeed in doing so or you are out,' he said.
Mr Lim painted this grim picture of the airline industry to leaders and members of the Air-Transport Executive Staff Union (Aesu), an SIA union, at its 38th anniversary dinner.
And he had a message for them: Start accepting that wage reform, no matter how painful, must be undertaken if the airline is to survive the competition.
As with many companies in Singapore, SIA needs to maintain a more flexible and competitive wage structure. The wages should reflect the value of the job.
'Increases should reflect the performance of the worker and the company, and not simply based on the seniority in the company.'
And productivity should be part of the formula for wages.
'This is the way to make the company competitive so that workers can keep their jobs and earn a living,' said the Minister Without Portfolio and secretary-general of the National Trades Union Congress.
Mr Lim's comments come in the wake of this week's announcement by SIA of pay cuts of between 22.5 per cent and 27.5 per cent for its management.
The airline, reeling from the fallout from Sars, is on the brink of recording its first-ever quarter of losses.
The Straits Times understands that SIA is asking rank-and-file employees to take a 15-per-cent pay cut and pilots to take a 22.5-per-cent hit. Cabin crew members have already agreed to take seven days' unpaid leave every two months until March next year to save costs.
More cost-cutting measures will be necessary if demand does not pick up, warned Mr Lim.
In his speech, he gave an overview of the competition in the airline industry, singling out how Lufthansa had boosted itself with one of the most flexible labour agreements in the industry.
Last month, the German carrier announced that it will cut the work schedule for all ground personnel by 1.5 hours per week.
Working hours for cabin crew and pilots will also be reduced as part of the measures to save $20 million this year.
An agreement signed by Lufthansa allows it to cut work schedules for ground staff immediately if there is a slump in sales.
If Lufthansa can do this, carriers following suit will make competition for SIA more intense in future.
'We need to respond,' Mr Lim said. 'We are supposed to have a superior industrial relations climate than Germany,' he noted. 'On the face of it, we seem to be behind Lufthansa already!'
But he also noted that it was not easy for union leaders to deal with the situation.
Their first task must be to help workers keep their jobs. And in the case of those in SIA who have to undergo compulsory no-pay leave, he said the management has agreed with the unions to allow them to work elsewhere temporarily while on such leave.
Ahead of the dinner, the leaders of Aesu and two other unions in the airline - SIA Staff Union and SIA Engineering Company Engineers and Executives Union - urged management to give members an assurance that the impending wage cuts will not be permanent.
The unions' stand is that any wage cut caused by Sars should be restored once business is back to normal.

The following statement of this minister need to be understood well. I never knew that bullshi**ing the employees are called as better industrial relations

Mr Lim said. 'We are supposed to have a superior industrial relations climate than Germany,'

Dechi
25th May 2003, 22:35
Hi guys,

I am a bit confused here.
With all this going on and SIA is looking for B777 Captains and cadets?

What is going on with SIA?

Regards and the best of luck to all of you.

twitchy
26th May 2003, 01:44
Hi Guys....

I recd a forwarded e-mail copy from an old pal which he has written to the Starits Times reporter who has been reporting on SIA and its pilots........

I thought this kind of letter to editor can never be published here, atleast the fellow PPruners can share it.

Quote

Dear Dominic,

I read your superb article on line today. I can't write as well as you can, so hope you won't mind if there are any mistakes. However, I would promise the accuracy of all the figures. What I fail to understand is that why your paper, ex CEO of SIA, labour chief Lim Boon Heng, DPM and PM have started this misinformation campaign against the pilots in SIA. As you would know that there are 2 kinds of pilots who are based in Singapore. One locals and others expatriate. Both are members of the union ALPAS. The expatriate are not allowed to vote in the union matters as per the guidelines. This means, the current dispute is the result of voting against the No Pay leave as desired by the SIA.

Firstly I fail to understand that all these distinguished persons and your paper have not highlighted this matter that these are the local Singaporean pilots only who are not helping the SIA in its so called tough times. Secondly an able journalist like you, in all fairness of the freedom of expression should have spoken to the spokesperson of ALPAS to have their viewpoint and publish it along with the management’s viewpoint. Whatever the ALPAS pilots are saying is also absolutely correct that why should they be forced to take No Pay Leave when an outside recruitment company’s pilots can be asked to save the jobs of the locals and there after if required these pilots will be ready to take the pay cut as taken by all the other employees of the SIA. Don’t forget this is the 2nd time these pilots are way off-course again within 9 months. Same pilots had willingly agreed for the pay cuts in view of the 911 and that year finally SIA made profit but the SIA still cut the pay of the employees.

Your esteemed paper and all these distinguished persons have made the managers of SIA a hero by taking a pay cut of 22.5% and the pilots of SIA are projected as villains. Let us examine the case of these pilots in little details. I feel when SIA has announced the 33% cut back in service because of poor demand; these pilots have already suffered about 20% cut in their take home pay on account of reduction in their variable component of pay i.e. Variable allowances (which the pilots get based on the flying done in a month). This means the managers are no heroes, pilots should also be considered in the same category.

If the pilots agree to the 12 days in two months No Pay Leave and 22.5% pay cut as taken by the other managers then there will be a total reduction of 50% in the take home pay of these recalcitrant pilots. However, what is projected to the public by your news paper while publishing the statements of all these distinguished persons of Singapore is that the SIA wants its pilots to take some pay cut to help SIA and the pilots are not agreeable to the same. This argument of SIA that overseas base pilots are cheaper so SIA can not ask them to go. This does not seem to be true as they are required for some other obvious reasons. If SIA is looking for cheaper pilots, it will be wise to sack all the local Singaporean senior pilots. As you will understand that over the last 20-30 years these pilots have been getting increments and there basic pay is twice that of the younger pilots doing the same job if not better. When it comes down chopping the head to save cost and help the airline then it should be expensive head to go first.

See it is very clear, if the SIA and the people in high places are patriotic and wants the locals to retain their jobs and suffer less with out any extra cost to SIA then the overseas base pilots should go out unless SIA has some other hidden agenda in keeping these overseas base pilots. If SIA an “ICON” of Singapore is only here to make billion dollars a year for its share holders i.e. government etc with out any social obligation then SIA needs to do serious cost cutting and restructure its work force, try and have as cheap labour as possible, be it the pilots or the managers or the directors. One example as I mentioned earlier is that SIA is having many senior pilots who are doing the same job for the company as the junior ones but SIA has to pay twice the amount of money to these senior ones as compared to the juniors. Keeping an expensive guy when a cheaper one is available for the same job make no economic sense for a company like SIA whose prime business is to make money and money only.

If you like it will be interesting to discuss the case studies of the approx. pay cut already experienced by the pilots as against the proposed one by the SIA.

Case No 1, when SIA was flying to full capacity in its 1 billion dollars profit days average local pilot flying about 70 hrs/month;
• Basic pay SGD 10,000
• Variable flying allowances SGD 2,800
• Meal reimbursement SGD 1,500

Therefore, total emoluments SGD 14,300


Case No. 2, when SIA has cut back 33% of services and there is no pay cuts or No Pay leave is agreed by its pilots, pilots are flying average of 30 hrs/month since SIA says it has 230 pilots surplus;
• Basic pay SGD 10,000
• Variable flying allowances SGD 1,200
• Meal reimbursement SGD 500

Therefore, total emoluments SGD 11,700

Case No. 3, if pilots agree to the No Pay Leave and 22.5% pay cut as taken by other managers, with this there will be cut of SGD 2,250 in the basic pay and SGD 2,000 reduction in basic pay because of the 6 days a month No Pay Leave;

• Revised basic pay SGD 5,750
• Variable flying allowance SGD 960 ( as 6 day a months pilot will not be flying)
• Meal reimbursement SGD 320

Therefore, total emoluments SGD 7,030

The above mathematics is self explanatory that where as the villains in the company have already suffered a 19% reduction in their earnings before even heroes of the company have taken the pay cuts. Mind it this proposed No Pay leave can be increased if the SARS situation does not improve and SIA has proved its credibility about restoring any pay cut last year that even after making the profit the employees were continued on the reduced pay.

I have heard, seen and read in LKY’s “MY Singapore Story” a lot about the press freedom and freedom of expression in your island state, I have also seen how the public opinion is swung by the misinformation and disinformation by the distinguished persons in the high places in Singapore. Let me hope that you will be able to contact the ALPAS representatives and get their side of story along with the SIA management’s. Hope you would try and put the record straight with your next article, if there does any freedom of expression exist.

At last you would be interested in knowing about me. I am retired from the airline and settled here in UK when I could not tolerate any more.

Regards





I have intentionally removed his name, you all understand why???????

422
26th May 2003, 03:12
No matter what happens in this impasse..

the local will suffer the eventual 45% wage reduction and the

OBS will remain status Quo

That is the LAW of the ISLAND.

Punish those who revolt....

Poor guys who have 900G Housing loans..

twitchy
26th May 2003, 09:14
422...
Why do you think bad for the locals my friend....

I think you wanted to say law of the Lee's land

regards

Twitchy

sq111
26th May 2003, 11:36
Dechi

Heard that SIA also released a batch of cadet pilots just a few weeks back. These cadets are into their 3rd month in Jandakot training for their Multi Engine Rating and IR. However, apparently there is a batch of new cadets joining the company in about 2 weeks time. Makes one wonder why on earth are they releasing current cadets and yet recruiting new ones... Doesn't make sense to me.

As for B777 Captains, in the website its already stated that its for information only as they are not recruiting any Captains.

411A
27th May 2003, 06:03
SQ flight ops management (or human resources dept) sends to ALL pilots, expat and local alike, the following letter...

1. Effective 01 July, your salary will be reduced by 25% due to the present unfavorable circumstances. Once traffic increases, your last salary (and all merit increases) will be reinstated.

2. Please return soonest your acceptance of the salary reduction.

3. Failure to respond OR accept the reductions in salary will result in your termination from service with the company.

4. ALL senior management are expected and WILL accept in kind salary reductions.


Seems reasonable to me. 'Tis the least expensive solution...and everyone saves face, local and expat alike.

Some may say that this approach is heavy-handed.
To those I can only say...A job is better than NO job.
The present situation ain't good.

Similar situation occured in 1980/81...high fuel prices.
Then, two fleets went bye-bye. At the time, definately needed.

G.Khan
27th May 2003, 07:36
411A The pilots, if I have read this correctly, are being asked to take one week off with no pay in each four week period, (a 25% salary cut), in addition to taking a 22%/25% salary cut, making their contribution nearly 50% of salary compared to the highest offered by senior management of 27.5%, not really fair is it? Add to that the overall loss of Flying Inducement Allowance and the cut goes way above 50%.

The pilots have not, as some senior dignitaries in Singapore have suggested, refused to consider leave without pay but not unreasonably feel that the o'seas based staff who are not full time SIA Singapore should be 'released' first.

The behaviour of the Prime Minister down to the 'Dear Doctor' is reprehensible, trying to stir up feelings against the pilots without addressing serious internal issues of SIA and it's pilot workforce.

411A
27th May 2003, 12:00
G. Khan

Hmmm, does seem a bit one-sided.
Agree that the PM on down are, shall we say...couldn't print their description in a family newspaper.

In this case, 50% reduction for senior management as well...sauce for goose/gander.

Companies everywhere should realise that management have to lead by example....will it happen...not likely.

Thermal Image
27th May 2003, 12:57
Is it too early to say I Told You So?

Perhaps I should try my luck at predicting the lottery.

On 21 May I said in http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=869950#post869950

"Today (21 May) is also the release of the National Wage Council report on, amongst other things, how seniority-based wage systems have little relevance in Singapore."

Today (27 May) The Straits Times says in http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/singapore/story/0,4386,191324,00.html?:

"In line with the National Wages Council's (NWC) call for businesses to move towards a more performance-linked pay structure, the airline said it was looking to overhaul its seniority-based wage system."

On 25 May I said in http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=874367#post874367

>>It is normal practice when job cuts are inevitable for 'Last in First Out ' to apply.

"This however gives rise to a paradox. In tough times you need to take drastic action to stem operational losses. Last in is usually most junior hence cheapest. Axing such staff is less efficient than taking a honest hard look at who is doing what for how much, and then axing those who cost the most but do the same thing as those who cost the least. Makes sense? What would you choose - cut headcount by 1 and stop losing $10000, or cut headcount by 1 and stop losing $20000?"

Today (27 May) The Straits Times says in the same story (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/singapore/story/0,4386,191324,00.html?):

"In the case of pilots, for example, the ratio between their minimum and maximum pay is almost double, with $10,000 for basic starting pay and $19,500 as the ceiling.

'The wage structure in Singapore has to be revamped so that we get away from a purely seniority-based wage system because that is uncompetitive and cannot be sustained in the longer term,' said an SIA spokesman."

On 26 May I said in http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=874871#post874871

"They have once again failed to realise (after years of experience of bad press) that the full might of the media will be roped in to bash them."

Today (27 May) The Straits Times says in http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/topstories/story/0,4386,191353,00.html?:

"Yesterday, ahead of a meeting with SIA management today, the Alpa-S said in a statement that it had been 'maligned in the media'."

Maybe ALPA-S should hire me as a strategic advisor because I can think of what the government will say and in turn they can do some scenario planning and devise pre-emptive tactics.

They sure made a mess of their image this time around.:p

twitchy
27th May 2003, 14:54
Thermal Image there is some good news for the ALPA=S pilots here in Singapore. As a cost cutting measure because I am learning to live with the reduced salary after all the cuts under various heading, I have stopped my subscription to the Local Straits Times, It saves SGD 22 a month.

This morning I had to run for getting a free copy of a newspaper here called TODAY, I was pleased to read an article on its 2nd page about SIA and its pilots. Mr. Ravi Veloo, the reporter who has written this article has actually tried to high light the actual problem in SIA with its pilots.Since I could not find the URL for this free newspaper I am reproducing the same article here for the benefit of ppruners. The Underlined portion is worth reading.

I fail to understand why the editors of the Starits Times does not look in this direction or may be this one is the mouth piece of the government and its GLCs. I only fear that Journalists like Mr. Ravi Veloo should not be asked to leave Singapore and perform his part of remaining National service in Taiwan Jungles.

Quote:
SIA Missing woods for the trees?
COMMENT/Ravi Veloo [email protected]

"This is your captain speaking....There appears to be turbulence ahead....Usually occurs every few years between our pilots' union and the SIA management. Please fasten your seat belts for a bumpy ride.... And please no smoking. While we are steaming....."

The pilots' union which is holding out against pay cuts will meet its Singapore Airlines bosses today in a bid to cut a deal to avoid going to court.

While prime minister Goh Chok Tong has said the government will not intervene in this latest tussle, he has called on the Air Line Pilots Association Singapore(Alpa-S)) to be flexible.

But really, just what is it about Singapore Airlines that makes it the only company in Singapore to require two prime ministers and half a dozen other cabinet ministers to intervene on its labour relations over the past two decades?

In the 1980s, then Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew actually threatened to dissolve the airline and form a new one if the pilots did not abondon a go-slow.

The joke among journalists then was that the new airline would be called, ISA, after the dreaded Internal Security Acr.

Mr Lee sent his own trouble shooter to SIA, then union supremo Devan Nair ( who later became President of the Republic of Singapore, and is now in self exile- who says Singapore is boring?)

He quelled the troubles, but apparently did not put out the fire. If all was well, surely it would not have been neccessary to take the unusual step six years ago of sending in another labour chief, Minister Without Porfolio Lim Boon Heng, to sit on the board of SIA. He is still there.

Yet, more trouble errupted. In the wake of Sept 11, 2001 when the SIA bosses asked all staff to take pay cuts until spooked passengers returned, the pilots demurred, requiring PM Goh to intervene, calling publicly on them to " go through this pain together". Last year, when SIA told its pilots they would no longer get to rest on Business Class seats for long haul flights but have to squeeze into Economy, the pilots actually threatened industrial action, which would have been the first here in 20 years.

Now, despite the obvious and urgent need to save money, with SIA facing its first possible loss ever, the pilots are again up in arms. Which raises the point, are we missing the woods for the trees?

Can 1,600 pilots, perhaps the most educated cohort in SIA, really be so stupid and recalcitrant as to want to hamper the biggest private employer in Singapore caught in its toughest crisis - as some members of the SIA management would have public and media believe ? Or perhaps could it be that the management has things to answer for as well.

It seems wholly possible that the pilots mey have a real set of grievences over the years that have not been addressed with the best management practices.

We cannot just dismiss their recurring protests as an industry quirk, pointing to pilot - management tussles in other countries. The fact is that Singapore's industrial and political climate is not similar to those countries. It must take a lot for somebody in Singapore to choose this confrontation path.

After all, the bottom line, as the pilots well know, is that they will have to accept some level of pay cuts to help SIA

So before we condemn the pilots for their intransigence, let us ask ourselves whether we have heard all sides of the story. If not, why exactly is that?

The alternative would be scarier for Singapore. That such a large cohort of our best and most skilled are totally irresponsible and cannot be trusted in a crisis. Which would you prefer to believe?

Unquote

Well done "TODAY" and Mr. Veloo, I hope Staraits Times should have its journalists like your calibre and guts.

twitchy
27th May 2003, 14:56
As a cost cutting measure because I am learning to live with the reduced salary after all the cuts under various heading, I have stopped my subscription to the Local Straits Times, It saves SGD 22 a month.

This morning I had to run for getting a free copy of a newspaper here called TODAY, I was pleased to read an article on its 2nd page about SIA and its pilots. Mr. Ravi Veloo, the reporter who has written this article has actually tried to high light the actual problem in SIA with its pilots.Since I could not find the URL for this free newspaper I am reproducing the same article here for the benefit of ppruners. The Underlined portion is worth reading.

I fail to understand why the editors of the Starits Times does not look in this direction or may be this one is the mouth piece of the government and its GLCs. I only fear that Journalists like Mr. Ravi Veloo should not be asked to leave Singapore and perform his part of remaining National service in Taiwan Jungles.

Quote:
SIA Missing woods for the trees?
COMMENT/Ravi Veloo [email protected]

"This is your captain speaking....There appears to be turbulence ahead....Usually occurs every few years between our pilots' union and the SIA management. Please fasten your seat belts for a bumpy ride.... And please no smoking. While we are steaming....."

The pilots' union which is holding out against pay cuts will meet its Singapore Airlines bosses today in a bid to cut a deal to avoid going to court.

While prime minister Goh Chok Tong has said the government will not intervene in this latest tussle, he has called on the Air Line Pilots Association Singapore(Alpa-S)) to be flexible.

But really, just what is it about Singapore Airlines that makes it the only company in Singapore to require two prime ministers and half a dozen other cabinet ministers to intervene on its labour relations over the past two decades?

In the 1980s, then Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew actually threatened to dissolve the airline and form a new one if the pilots did not abondon a go-slow.

The joke among journalists then was that the new airline would be called, ISA, after the dreaded Internal Security Acr.

Mr Lee sent his own trouble shooter to SIA, then union supremo Devan Nair ( who later became President of the Republic of Singapore, and is now in self exile- who says Singapore is boring?)

He quelled the troubles, but apparently did not put out the fire. If all was well, surely it would not have been neccessary to take the unusual step six years ago of sending in another labour chief, Minister Without Porfolio Lim Boon Heng, to sit on the board of SIA. He is still there.

Yet, more trouble errupted. In the wake of Sept 11, 2001 when the SIA bosses asked all staff to take pay cuts until spooked passengers returned, the pilots demurred, requiring PM Goh to intervene, calling publicly on them to " go through this pain together". Last year, when SIA told its pilots they would no longer get to rest on Business Class seats for long haul flights but have to squeeze into Economy, the pilots actually threatened industrial action, which would have been the first here in 20 years.

Now, despite the obvious and urgent need to save money, with SIA facing its first possible loss ever, the pilots are again up in arms. Which raises the point, are we missing the woods for the trees?

Can 1,600 pilots, perhaps the most educated cohort in SIA, really be so stupid and recalcitrant as to want to hamper the biggest private employer in Singapore caught in its toughest crisis - as some members of the SIA management would have public and media believe ? Or perhaps could it be that the management has things to answer for as well.

It seems wholly possible that the pilots mey have a real set of grievences over the years that have not been addressed with the best management practices.

We cannot just dismiss their recurring protests as an industry quirk, pointing to pilot - management tussles in other countries. The fact is that Singapore's industrial and political climate is not similar to those countries. It must take a lot for somebody in Singapore to choose this confrontation path.

After all, the bottom line, as the pilots well know, is that they will have to accept some level of pay cuts to help SIA

So before we condemn the pilots for their intransigence, let us ask ourselves whether we have heard all sides of the story. If not, why exactly is that?

The alternative would be scarier for Singapore. That such a large cohort of our best and most skilled are totally irresponsible and cannot be trusted in a crisis. Which would you prefer to believe?

Unquote

Well done "TODAY" and Mr. Veloo, I hope Staraits Times should have its journalists like your calibre and guts.

Thermal Image
27th May 2003, 15:20
Thank you twitchy for transcribing the article.

Who knows? Maybe this is an attempt to show the world that Singapore does have newspapers which "dare" to publish independant views. Maybe it is the token voice of dissent...

ALPA-S, may I be so audacious as to offer some advice:

1. Never have a resolution that is logically flawed and untenable in the first place. And don't try to use fancy words to hide your true intentions.

Example: Be it resolved that the Airline Pilots Association–Singapore, not accept any Compulsory No Pay Leave (CNPL) or other wage-reduction measures until Management has addressed the issue of surplus pilots by de-seconding pilots who are not directly employed by the Company. (This refers to Overseas-Based pilots who are seconded to, and not employed directly by, SIA).

One might ask, exactly what does "addressed the issue of surplus pilots" mean in this context?

Read together with the words "by de-seconding pilots who are not directly employed by the Company" the meaning is clear: fix the problem of surplus pilots by sacking the seconded pilots.

So, for plain English explanation:
a. Be it resolved that the Airline Pilots Association-Singapore: It is our stand that we, ALPA-S...
b. not accept any Compulsory No Pay Leave (CNPL) or other wage-reduction measures until: self explanatory
c. Management has addressed the issue of surplus pilots by de-seconding pilots who are not directly employed by the Company. (This refers to Overseas-Based pilots who are seconded to, and not employed directly by, SIA): the problem of surplus pilots is fixed by the company terminating the services of pilots working for (eg) SIA (Mauritius).

In other words:
It is our stand that we, ALPA-S not accept any Compulsory No Pay Leave (CNPL) or other wage-reduction measures until the problem of surplus pilots is fixed by the company terminating the services of pilots working for (eg) SIA (Mauritius).

Their wordy resolution gives them some space to claim that they never meant to have the seconded pilots sacked, but do they really expect SIA (Mauritius) to keep them on the payroll after SIA has "de-seconded" them?

2. Don't try to worsen your situation by making claims that your position was misunderstood: The Business Times 27 May http://business-times.asia1.com.sg/sub/premiumstory/0,4574,82601,00.html?

Quote:

'We will not be able to persuade foreign pilots to join us in good times, as we will be remembered as an unfair employer,' the spokesman said, alluding to media reports that the pilots are not prepared to accept wage cuts until a group of foreign pilots employed under an 'overseas based scheme (OBS)' are first let go. But this is not their stand, according to an Air Line Pilots Association-Singapore (Alpa-S) official.

'When Alpa-S was first informed of the company's intention to effect a 15 to 22.5% wage cut on top of compulsory no-pay leave, our reaction was that the combination of all the components would be too much for us to bear,' said the Alpa-S spokesman.

He said the proposed cut is excessive and must be justified. The pilots are also asking for some assurance that these will be restored in better times.

On the question of the OBS pilots, the union thinks they are now contributing to the problem of excess pilots, which would last about one to two years.

They want to see such 'excess pilots' reduced to an acceptable number, while accepting the company's need to carry some 'fat' in case of an upturn.

Unquote.

ALPA-S, if you understand the meaning of your own resolution, you said nothing of reducing excess pilots to an acceptable number. You instead said that Management should stop the services of all pilots not directly employed by SIA.

Even if reducing the excess to an acceptable number was your real intention, the resolution says otherwise.

In the Internet world, messages are made of hard text which is what gets transmitted, and emotions are left behind. If you guys crafted the resolution poorly then you just have to pay the price for it.

3. Harness the power of the Internet. ALPA-S, you had previously set up a public forum on their website re SQ006. However the intellectual content was not at all like PPRuNe and eventually was like a fish market. ALPA-S, you should have set up a webpage telling your part of the story to do damage control. The Straits Times cannot be relied upon to tell your story for you.

4. Do scenario planning. How is it that on my own I am able to predict what will the press will say? You have a whole bunch of brains in various committees, what happened?

Thermal Image
27th May 2003, 21:09
The Straits Times version:

MAY 27, 2003

SIA, pilots' crisis talk ends in deadlock

SINGAPORE -- Crisis talks between Singapore Airlines management and its pilots' union over wage cuts to help the carrier weather the impact of Sars ended in deadlock on Tuesday.

'There was no resolution,' said Captain Frank John, spokesman of the Air Line Pilots Association Singapore.

He said management told the pilots that the airline was in a 'very serious situation and they requested us to seriously consider the wage cuts that they have proposed'.

Management also said they would 'moderate' its proposals for compulsory unpaid leave of 10-12 days every two months if the union accepted the wage cuts, he said.

SIA is proposing a 22.5-per-cent wage reduction for pilots and 15 per cent for first officers as a measure to reduce costs and allow the airline to survive the impact of the severe acute respiratory syndrome epidemic.

The union said pilots stand to lose 40-50 per cent of their monthly wages from the salary cuts and unpaid leaves.

Capt John said another round of talks was tentatively scheduled for next Tuesday.

He said the pilots reiterated their position that management should first axe foreign-based pilots employed by a 100 per cent SIA-owned company called SIA Mauritius before they agree to discuss wage cuts.

SIA has cut a third of its total passenger capacity after passenger volumes dwindled as travellers avoided Singapore and East Asia for fear of contracting the pneumonia-like virus. -- AFP


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright @ 2003 Singapore Press Holdings. All rights reserved.

The Channel News Asia version:

No resolution after first round of talks between SIA pilots and management

By Farah Abdul Rahim

There has been no resolution after the first round of negotiations between Singapore Airlines' management and pilots.

They sat down on Tuesday at the negotiating table for the first time since the dispute over cost-cutting measures surfaced.

According to the pilots' union, another round of talks is scheduled for next week.

It is understood that the issue of releasing the foreign SIA pilots based overseas was not even on the table.

Instead the two sides discussed wage cuts and compulsory no pay leave, which will lower the salaries of captains by 22.5 percent and first officers by 15 percent.

SIA had wanted the cost-cutting measures to kick in from June 1, but this looks unlikely.

highcirrus
27th May 2003, 21:46
Straits Times, 27 May 2003

“SIA is proposing a 22.5-per-cent wage reduction for pilots and 15 per cent for first officers as a measure to reduce costs and allow the airline to survive the impact of the severe acute respiratory syndrome epidemic.”

What exactly does “survive the impact of the severe acute respiratory syndrome epidemic” mean?

Does it mean break even for fiscal 03/04 or does it mean steady as she goes for the usual $1 bn profit per annum?

I’m amenable to the principle of salary cuts (for all) if the former is the case but I’m certainly not if the latter’s the case!

Moonraker2003
28th May 2003, 11:57
Would appreciate if any of you can care to explain / answer the below questions:-

How United are you pilots in your present situation?

What is the ratio of voting unity of 'nays and 'yeahs'?

Is it all talk talk behind closed doors or is it open without fear?

What is the public opinion polls on this issue?