P****d PaX Problem

[Douglas Racer]

Yesterday I returned from my annual recurrent training on the ATR42 in Bangkok. The return flight (this one on SAA 289) is notorious for experiencing problems with inebriated and unruly passengers. I suspect that it is as a result of the culprits enjoying a huge party the night before the flight, they then board the aircraft in a hungover state and proceed to make the life of their fellow passengers and the cabin crew an absolute nightmare.

The passenger I refer to in this case (lets call him seat 28H) has to be classified as the proverbial "burst a***hole" ( a normal "a***hole" is still a useful item) for the following reasons:

1. In order to satisfy his childish lust for attention (probably due to a significant experience during potty training), he had to highlight every little glitch during the flight in a loudmouthed show-stopping fashion (there was a problem with the first in-flight movie's sound). While doing this he and his mates continued to consume alcohol and become increasingly louder and intoxicated.

2. He was repeatedly warned to behave by the cabin crew (obviously he didn't read the warning notice about such behaviour in the back of the in-flight magazine) or possibly he was so blind drunk that he could not read.

3. His continuous arguments with the cabin crew took up about one tenth of the cabin crews 10 hour 45 min duty, which they could easily have spent tending to other passengers.

4. He was the result that the bar was closed for everyone in cattle class, so we spent the rest of our in-flight entertainment sipping water, this despite the fact that those around him had paid good money for their tickets and were entitled to this service.

What can be done by the industry to prevent people like this from ever travelling by air again? Is it possible to have him blacklisted internationally, indeed have him relegated back to travel by foot, pack donkey or at best, paddle steamer? Or does our new democratic constitution protect him and his kind so well that they may survive to harass the general public on future flights?

I am well aware that it requires action on the part of the Captain backed up with statements by cabin crew and passenger witnesses to lay a charge against him, but even any successful conviction and sentence has an end to its time limit, whereafter he can again board a plane full of victims.

On that point, I would like to commend the cockpit and cabin crew of SA289, Bangkok- Johannesburg 20 May 2003, for their patience and professional attitude in dealing with this imbecile.

28H progressively became more sombre and silent on the descent, probably reflecting on the possible legal action awaiting him in Johannesburg. Too late, 28H, by now you had p****d off all those in your section, the cabin crew included, and you had probably pushed up the blood pressure of the cockpit crew who now had to monitor your antics back in the cabin . You managed to replace the in-flight entertainment with your childish antics and you also managed to keep a lot of us awake for the best part of the flight. Even the two little girls in the row behind me displayed better behaviour on the whole journey.

Any comments from the industry are most welcome.

[Gunship]

Ok ok I must admit ... I got horribly pi55ed on flight SA 212 Heathrow - Cape Town on Sunday 27 April.

But ... I was just asked once to sharrap and I shut up. At least I did not spoil anybody 's supper as I spoiled my own later that morning.

Seriously I was so damn bored on the USELESS SAA flight ! I vowed never , ever to fly them again (if I can not help it) as it was the FOURTH time in a row that the in - flight entertainment does not work.

On monday I phoned SAA and complained just to be told .. eischh I am sorrie bet you know you should sleep om the night flight .... Fu ... !!! I had enough really - I NEED entertainment in an aircraft while I fly as a pax as I HATE every second of the flight sitting in the back and wondering what when the guy in the fron is getting vertigo or not !

Again sorry to the 2 Poms that sat next to me that HAD TO drink 12 bottles of (small) red wines with me :E

To SAA - Good - Bye - you might not think in - flight entertainment is not important - for me and a lot of others it IS !

PS: And please get rid of you freckin PB's with their fat a55es that bumps my red wine of the table (happened twice) .. ok .. ok there was a few "in stock"

Seriously again ... bad manners / drunk pax need to be banned from airlines ! hik ..

[Douglas Racer]

Eischhh Guns, you will never change................:}

[Gunship]

... never die ... :E

I was on a KLM flight Sunday night. On departure from Cape Town to Jhb (did not f&^%$n know what !) a hostie confronted a Dutch guy about his behaviour.

In no unvertain terms (Dutch but understandable by me) she told him he stinks of alkohol and she saw him "wobbling" down the corridor.

She basically told him she will take no 5hit from him and he will not be served anymore alkohol.

I dunno what happened but when I woke up on touch down in Jhb the Chief Hostie 5hat on this guy for another 5 minutes.

He was told in NO uncertain terms he will leave the aircraft in Jhb if he does not give his full co-operation.

Needless to say that was the end of it !

[BAKELA]

The aviation laws in SA relating to unruly pax carries far too small and little penalties and crews almost always view it as a hazzle to go through the process of pressing charges. Furthermore, when airlines lay charges on behalf of the crew they usually stuff it up, and if it's all okay up to now, either the cops or the State prosecutor will stuff it up.

Result - more than 95% of all unruly pax cases gets thrown out of court on the first day. :mad::mad::mad:

[Gunship]

Lo BAKELA ... (long time)

In "my case" on KLM ... could the crew throw the unruly pax off in Jhb en - route to Amsterdam ?

What will be the consequences ? :eek:

[BAKELA]

Dagsê Guns,

Been too busy lately and trying to catch up now. How was the SA stay and how's the shoulder?

To the best of my knowledge, the Dutch unruly pax legislation is quite severe (we should get one of those Hollanders off the Afrikaans thread on The Campfire and onto this thread) and if the offense was comitted by the pax on board a KLM a/c, the Dutch laws will be applied. The pax can be thrown off in Jo'burg, arrested, and then be deported (under escort if thought necessary) to the Netherlands to stand trial. If there's any legal eagles out there come and help us out please.

[Gunship]

All fine tx BAKELA ! Cheers.

I mus admit now I understand better because this was guy was SEVERLY reprimanded ... I must be honest if a hostie came to me 2 minutes after I entered an aircraft and told me I am pi55ed and she saw me waggling ... and she can smell me and she will throw me oof and a lot - really A LOT of hanna - hanna went on ..

Must admit the pax and the pax around him was ver , very quite - so yes it is understandable that he KNEW then what the penalties was.

During the stop in Jhb the "new crew" gave him ANOTHER reprimand and I am sure he did not even take a dop between Ct and Jhb.

Nice to see this action - anyway :ok:

Cheers ... gone to see footie .. Banana Bafana vs England ...

[B Sousa]

Unruley Passengers here in the states are far and few between. They go to jail......as the game says Do not pass Go. Even had the Passengers kill one not long ago, inflight. Folks over here are taking it very seriously....
I made a comment once here on PPrune about a certain Ethnicity heading for the cockpit door, that I would drop him like a bad habit. I got my hand slapped by the Mod as I was insensitive to other cultures......
Fact remains, if I see one heading that way while Im a Passenger, I'll drop him like a bad habit and tell you all about it on PPrune.

[Gunship]

Uncle Bert ... and I thought is is just me that can get so agro ... saw one heading to a Million Air cockpit .. must admit he did not make it ... the hostie was bemused (South African Hostie nogal) that I was SO arrogant to stop one going to the cockpit door (unlocked and open in THOSE days - shortly after 11 Sept)

:*

[Yossarian]

I agree that blacklisting is the only real answer to these idiots that make the flight miserable for everyone. I enjoy a few frosty amber refreshments while seated in the back as much as anyone, and probably more than most, but when these refrehments lead to a disruption of the flight, then something needs to be done.

A few years back I had a group of doctors on a flight and three of them got out of hand. They refused to settle down after repeated warnings and so we had the Zarps meet us on landing. Will not forget the expressions on their faces when they were grabbed and led off to the cop shop. We pressed charges but all three got off with light fines. Even their fellow doctors on the flight were disgusted and helped against them. Hopefully the memory of their detention will make them think twice before trying similar tricks.

[BAKELA]

Yossarian, I agree that blacklisting is the only real answer In a perfect world it would work. PROBLEM IS - A few years ago a certain pax regularly doing domestic flights had just about every SA carrier up in arms. A meeting was held between all carriers to blacklist and ban this person. Guess what? A particular carrier said "Fine, if you don't want him we'll be only too glad to carry him." Won't mention names but I think it sucks.:mad:

Then of course there's our liberal human rights orientated constitution...:* You try an ban anybody from flying...

[yambat]

Hey Gunns, I too enjoy the odd case of the vin rouge on those into out of contract flights, but as a freight dog I dont get to deal with the "kak" in the back. Lets hear from some from front of house guys/gals on what they would do with these really unruly pax. I too have travelled that Bangkok recurrency run and fortunately had a quiet time each trip. Not much worse than obnoxious bstards to make an already crap time even worse(refering to long hours in the back).
Gunns, enjoy reading your input , I pass over LGI often and wonder what the city must be like down there, stunning setting.

[Gunship]

I mean let us face it is not nice to brag about it ... getting a bit slosshed on a flight .... :\

It is just the way you handle it ... I think during the pax briefing there should be a STANDARD World Wide brief ....

Something like ... IF ANY ONE OF YOU GET UNRULY YOU WILL BE BANNED FROM AN ICAO OPERATED AIRCRAFT FLYING ON HUMAN EARTH ... uhmm or something in that manner ... with bells and wistles and all that stuff and then seriously BLACKLIST Them like my stolen mobile or like soccer hooligans - same sh*t - same rules apply - you are fired we do not want your money - stay away ! I am sure things will be better then.

yambat ... drop bye one day ... 66 99 99 is the mobile number if you are in an emergency ... yes it is great to stay here .. just hope the guys on the SL thread can get here.

A few of the guys on here actually lives here but I have that idea they are scared of my drinking habbits :E

Cheers

Gunnsss

[Gunship]

.. talk about what we talk about ...



Melbourne - A man apparently intent on crashing a Qantas flight in Australia slashed two attendants on his way to the cockpit before he was overpowered, the country's transport minister said on Thursday.

The 40-year-old man attacked the crew with sharp wooden implements, possibly chopsticks, soon after the Boeing 717 - carrying 47 passengers and six crew - left the southern city of Melbourne for the island state of Tasmania.

Passengers and crew wrestled the man to the floor before he could reach the cockpit of the 118-seat plane.

Transport Minister and Deputy Prime Minister John Anderson said it did not appear to be an act of terrorism.

'We believe he was trying to take over the plane'
"He apparently headed for the cabin and seemed to be intent upon trying to force a nasty outcome," Anderson told reporters in Canberra.

Police said the man had been taken into custody.

Qantas Chief Executive Geoff Dixon said a 38-year-old male flight attendant received a gash to the back of his head and a 25-year-old female attendant suffered facial cuts.

"We believe he was trying to take over the plane," Australian Federal Police Agent Stephen Cato told reporters in Melbourne.

Qantas and government officials said it did not appear the incident on flight QF1737 was a premeditated or co-ordinated attempt to commit an act of terror.

'The steward had a lot of blood on the back of his neck'
"There's no evidence it was an act of terrorism, which would rather suggest it was an act by an individual who was less than stable," Anderson said.

Passenger Joe Da Costa told reporters the male flight attendant was hurt after he confronted the man.

"The steward had a lot of blood on the back of his neck. He was good, very good, very brave," said Da Costa.

Another passenger, Keith Charlton, said the injured attendant had acted heroically in tackling the man and forcing him away from the cockpit.

"The fellow Greg, really was a hero. If it wasn't for him we could've been in a lot of trouble," Charlton told Sky News, referring to the steward.

The injured crew were able to walk off the plane and were taken to Royal Melbourne Hospital for treatment.

One passenger was also slightly injured but did not require hospital treatment, Dixon said.

Australia has been on heightened alert since the September 11, 2001, attacks in Washington and New York and the Bali bombings in October 2002, in which almost 90 Australians were killed.

"It appears no proscribed weapons or potential weapons have got through security inappropriately. There may be lessons that are learned about unforeseen tools being used," Anderson said.

In December 2000, a Kenyan also described as mentally unbalanced managed to enter the cockpit of a British Airways jet flying from London to Nairobi and wrestled the controls from the pilot.

The plane plunged thousands of metres and nearly crashed before the crew managed to regain control of the aircraft.

:\

[Douglas Racer]

Hey Gunns,
Maybe we should try the old Dak pax brief that we used to use in the war, it went something like this:

1. Moenie oppie sitplekke staan, kak, of kots nie.
2. No spoeging, No gwelling.
3. Stand up for pregnant ladies.
4. Flight time ----minutes, its gonna be rough.:E

[Gunship]

DouglasRacer .. hogs..

I made a point out of watching pax as the pax briefing was made .. it seems these days nobody watches / listens to pax briefs, either :

All px have listened to many times before at pax briefs
It is a "show of proof" that I have flown many times before


or it is just too damn boring (except the Dak brief and Kulula.com's brief) ? :uhoh: