Beyond credulity.

[Loose rivets]

After a very uncomfortable flight as a passenger LGW –DFW We missed the connection despite assurances that there would be ample time. I hate being a passenger, but what happened next astonished me.

Our baggage had been claimed in the normal way on arrival at Dallas, and went through customs. It was then re-checked by security. I was surprised that we had access to it after they were re-scanned, when we were not certain to be on the same aircraft.

I was variously assured that it was legal for bags to fly without their owners on an interline flight, and by a different person, that it was not possible for the bags to fly without us. “they are routinely pulled (off the aircraft) when the passengers do not make the connection.” I questioned in no uncertain terms, how this could be done in time, when they could not delay the flight for passengers that had crossed the airport in record time. There was never a clear answer.

Another statement that I found astonishing was that it is not so important now, since terrorists are such fanatics that they accompany their bags knowing that they will be killed. The point that she was making seemed to be, that the rule of PAX flying with their bags simply had no validity in the new era of terrorism. This of course is nonsense. We clearly have to deal with fanatics and the other types of people that are a potential danger to aircraft.

It occurred to me afterwards, that my hold baggage contained numerous electrical items. The extraordinary images that must have shown up on the X-ray screen were never questioned.

What we finally are left with is that 4 large items of hold baggage definitely flew Dallas to Austin without their owners, while containing various computer leads and accessories, plastic boxes with printed circuits, batteries and coiled up wires!

Just what is the point of the daily nonsense that we go through ( as operating crew ) when this can happen?

[rwm]

Only in the USA, they know security best. Bunch of twits if you asked me, I hate traveling through the US by plane. I'd rather drive, and put up with car jackings and theft than the security and customs people of airports in the USA.

[HZ123]

If you feel so strongly why can you not tell us which airline it was and others may have further info. I trust you are chasing them for some compo.

[Bumblebee]

I don't think you'll find your experience was a one-off...

Back in February, attempted to fly Vegas to LAX with American. Was on Standby, so we were held back till last minute at check-in, until we had seats allocated. Queues through security were ridiculous - wouldn't allow us priority. Had to run to the gate...to watch aeroplane pushing back at STD+3 minutes...with our baggage on board.

They left 30, yes 30 pax behind......

Quote: "...but we're an on-time airline sir..."

Had to hire a car and drive to LAX to collect the bags...

Wonder no more, why AMR is losing money when they leave behind 25% of their revenue pax - let alone the security implications of going with unaccompanied bags..

[Check 6]

Loose rivets, venting on PPRUNE is fine, but it will not fix the problem.
Contact American Airlines (http://aa.com) then customer relations, then contact us, then contact via e-mail. There is a form where you can detail your complaint/suggestions, including your flight number, etc. etc.


;)

[radeng]

Security is supposedly very tight. That's why last Wednesday, radeng had to show his boarding card 5 times in a distance of 20 feet going through security at ORD.

Over 100 years ago, Jerome K. Jerome wrote about cheering up German railway officials by showing them your ticket. In 2003, it's cheer up the TSA people by showing a boarding card!

[Onan the Clumsy]

Yes. Why not tell us which aairline it was?



but we're an on-time airline sir

It's an old trick. Depart the gate on time only to sit on the tarmac for hours. It counts as an on time departure.

[martinidoc]

Ah well that explains why the BA 1321 NCL-LHR managed to push back on Monday with unacompanied bags, only to return on stand 3 minutes later.

What is incredible is that Pax can "get lost in the terminal building" at NCL where there are only a handful of gates!

Furthermore it casts doubt on the integrity of the NCL security regime.

That having been said, I wonder in these days where suicide bombing and matyrdom are so fashionable whether the out-dated notion of putting the bomb in the hold without the bomber on board is so likely?

An hour later we departed!!

[Rabbit]

The answers simple if you are not happy with the situation in the US, don't go there if you can avoid it. I try but unfortunately the roster quite often wins. Quite simply the security system in the US is in my oppinion is rediculuous to the extreme and yet as I have found full of holes that any person serious in getting something through would heve no trouble.

Have a nice day

[wilco83]

Martini

Surely it is the fact that it became more difficult to put unaccoumpanied bags on a plane that made them resort to suicide attacks.

Taking away these checks will mean they return to the old method as well...

[Rongotai]

Well Check 6, here is how it works from a passenger's point of view - based on may year's experience and over 2 million miles of being SLF. Complaints through the airline's system sometimes get a response, sometimes don't (more likely if you are FF gold). When responses come they can take months and can be dismissive.

BUT, if I end my letter with "You have three weeks to respond to this complaint, after which I shall tell the story on the following web sites......." WOW!! - personal emails, upgrade certificates, miles added to my FF account pour over me in no time like the gentle rain.

Large airlines are just like any other cost constrained bureaucracy - they are driven by procedures, not service. Once you figure that out you have the perfect formula for getting the best possible service - ALWAYS be pleasant and polite to the front line staff on the spot and ALWAYS be an absolute stand out bastard to the managers you never meet face to face in ways that are targeted on their performance criteria.

[Loose rivets]

Well, my venting on prune was in fact very restrained. In a 4 page letter to executives in DFW, I was a little more forthright.

I did not feel that others on prune would want to hear me winging on about the myriad issues that I raised, but the gist was that we paid quite a lot more to --- yes AA --- to get specific seats, then got shoved down the back where we froze; some PAX had blankets round their heads. The food we wanted run out one row ahead etc. etc. it was just a poor show except for the good seat pitch.

It’s what happened on arrival that caused me to go into total melt-down. We had been 9 mins late on stand having crossed the Atlantic in average time. No excuses there.

In 30 years of paxing to the US this was the quickest we have ever got through customs and immigration. The secondary security check was a pain, literally, as we had to heave cases up to the belt ourselves (old fogies should not have to do this with hold baggage.) We were on our own. Navigating to the gate at the other end of the universe was facilitated by hijacking a pax transport driven by the daughter of Fangio. We made that distant gate in what must have been an all time record at DFW only to see the a/c on stand, with no chance of boarding.

I put it to the young lady, that said that she was management, that it was inappropriate for my bags to be on board……etc this is when it got really silly.

The 4 page letter and a 40 min. phone conversation to a senior manager at Dallas some weeks later, produced……nothing. But upgrades, comps of some sort, do not matter. They are one of a million complaints that are heard and then forgotten in this industry. What is significant is that AA senior management’s response to the safety issue was to give me the address of the TSA. Hah!

I asked this stone wall that I was speaking to, if he had any awareness of the crew/TSA relationships that were currently a major issue in this industry. He said that he did not bother with reading such stuff. I then put it to him that AA crews v TAS were the main topic that I was reading. A totally negative response.

When you hear of the biggest loss in corporate history and get this kind of response to a very calm and detailed communication with HQ, is it a wonder that we are nervously waiting for one of the biggest collapses in the history of aviation.

[AA717driver]

AA's customer service is a disaster. The agents have been beaten so badly that they will close the door with your leg in it--10 min. ahead of scheduled departure. Apparently they die a hideous death if they send a flight out late.

Being a non-rev at AA is like hailing from the Black Hole of Calcutta. The only way a crew member can be sure the non-revs get on is to walk out to the gate area 5 min before departure and make his own announcement. If there are empty seats and you are closing the door within a couple minutes of sked, you can be reasonably assured that non-revs were left behind.

And they want to be more like SWA...:( TC

[Check 6]

My wife and I have been American Airlines frequent flyers since 1988 and have had nothing but great service, including upgrades to business class. We fly on AA enough to have Elite Gold AAdvantage status.

About the only complaint I have, and this applies to most majors, is that the food has deteriorated on U.S. domestic flights, but mostly we fly international.

Also, I have no complaints with U.S. Customs/Immigration or security at DFW or STL. These are the two airports where we enter from Europe, where we live. Having said that, I will agree that this is not the case with all airports of entry in the U.S.

Could "attitude" be a factor in these bad experiences?

No, I am not associated with AA other than as a SLF.

:) :) :)

[Loose rivets]

I think that most aircrew don’t particularly want to fly as passengers, but when we do, and things go wrong, we know when we are confronted with BS. “Attitude” is formed as a result of experiences.

AA’s responsibilities only lay in their efforts, or lack thereof, made on my behalf. If it is legal to let bags fly without their owners, then that is all there is to that part of the argument, except that it is my opinion that they should have a more responsible attitude. It is this, and this alone, that was the thrust of the original posting.

The fact that I was told that the time allotted was reasonable to cross DFW and quite clearly is not, is just typical of the disregard for passenger wellbeing rife in the industry. It is just one of thousands of complaints made to various airlines, and not really a subject to be aired on pprune. It was the repeated assertion that there was time, when we made a record transit, that irked me.

I have been flying for 40 years and have watched the quality of service diminish, exponentially, in that time.

I tried so hard to wait for my “interliners”, risking a bo**oking from management every time. I have to say however, that I was not under the extreme time constraints of modern slot times.

I still think that hold baggage containing numerous electronic devices, should never have flown without their owners.

[cdtaylor_nats]

Bags fly without their owners all the time, all those lost bags. I go to New York my bags go to Cairo, they flew unaccompanied. Then when they were finally re-united with me they flew unaccompanied as found bags

[Loose rivets]

Lost baggage being returned? Yep, yet another receptacle in which to place an unauthorised package. It seems that because it is allowed to happen, that makes it alright.

Having just had my shoes taken away and given the second degree: my laptop put on the sniffer machine for 5 mins. The same big case first mentioned, went through still carrying electronics test gear. Of our 4 cases, this was the only one not opened as denoted by leaflet left inside.

[Taildragger]

Yep.... I can confirm all this several times over. The Airlines flying within the USA have not apparently learned anything from Lockerbie and beyond. The attitude seems to be that it is a Domestic flight, therefore it is beyond sabotage and attack.
I beg to differ with that attitude big time.....I (And most airline people) could get a bag easily on board a US aircraft at the connecting point. I won't put the method in writing here, but I am sure that all of you get my drift. I have, twice now, had the experience of sitting at the gate on United (At the same airport) when the Gate Agent has come on board and made a PA, to the effect "would all passengers please be seated immediately. We wish to knowhow many seats are free for the standby's" And here was me thinking that US carriers used DCS.! There seems to be a lot of guys in uniform of various agencies, but the ground procedures are slacking.

[pitchtrim]

So I was'nt the only one that was left completely bemused with lack of security.

Last year I was on a standby flight from Chicago to Orlando with American Airlines. It was busy and I was bumped off for several flights. On enquiring about the baggage I was told it had already gone as it was checked in! I was then told it would be at the baggage collection point in Orlando for 3 days, by which time (get this!!), if I had'nt arrived to collect it, it would be returned to Chicago.... Doh !!

When asked how this could be in the light of 9/11 I was met with various answers such as, ''bags cannot travel unnacompanied'', ''its ok its an internal flight'', and the best one, ''I have no idea sir!''

Hard to believe its still happening.