Did you UAS?

[SunderlandMatt]

Okay, so most people who read this section of the forum have had some military experience, but how many of you went though a UAS (University Air Squadron)?

Did you enjoy it?

Looking back, do you wish hadn't joined? Do you wish you'd concentrated on your degree and got a 1st or concentrated more on the flying rather than studies and got streamed FJ. That is not a dig at ME or Rotary you must understand, all the way through my time on the UAS I wanted to fly Wokka-Wokkas.

Which UAS had the best reputation for getting good flying done (i.e. not getting shafted into the hold all the time, or enthusiastic QFIs, etc) and which was the most fun to be a part of (social life, summer camps, etc)?
:ok:

[Mobius Trip]

Yes, very glad I was accepted. Got a degree (not a first!), got a lot of invaluable flying experience and, most importantly, an exquisitely good social life. Fun days.

However comma - things have changed a lot since I did it (80's) so there would be many PPRuNers better qualified than I am to reply to your post. But I thought I'd give you my humble opinion anyway.

Mobius

[Dunhovrin]

UAS - best flying club in the world. Like MT I'm ex-80s but I loved my time there - it was just the univeristy bit I didn't enjoy.

I think the flying vs academics balance is a bit simplistic me-old. Whilst UAS gives you a good head-start for FTS I wouldn't aim for a 3rd just to go FJ (speaking as an ex-Shackleton pilot with the lowest 3rd Manchester had ever seen).

As for the best UAS - in my day UGSAS and QUAS seemed to be the best socially and flying-wise, and even though Woodvale is an outstanding spot - LUAS were a bunch of hommes....;) .

[SunderlandMatt]

Woodvale must be the quietest place in the world though!

I always had great reports from SUAS. They must get some fine weather flying done compared to most Northern Sqns.


Bring back the 'Dog! :ok:

[chippy63]

S-matt
No, bring back the Chipmunk! I enjoyed my time in the UAS in the 60's. Had previously got a PPL thanks to a flying scholarship. The PPL training was at Surrey & Kent FC at Biggin. Most of the training was on an Aircoupe, but the GFT had to be done on a Chipmunk because you couldn't get a proper stall out of the 'coupe.
Great days:ok:

[Captain Gadget]

I had an absolutely wonderful time on my UAS - the best dining-in nights and other socials that I ever experienced! In fact, most of my best late-night RAF memories are from that era - one notable exception being that of the Cpl bugler whose Cranwellian post-prandial diversion was to play the Post Horn Gallop on a Lee-Enfield .303 rifle, to an enthusiastic accompaniment of synchronised table-thumping and leaping coffee-cups!

[Edited because Gadget belatedly realised that all his best memories date from before he strapped himself to something much more fiddly and less trustworthy than a bang seat!]

Sadly, never flew the Chipmunk other than from the back as a Space Cadet, but the 'Dog was a pretty good step up from the Cessna 150 'Spamcan' that I had done my Flying Scholarship on, and a 4-minute aeros sequence to a base height of 1000' MSD could be completed in a single go - which is more than could be said for some other mounts. I do remember wet-dreaming in those days about the Siai-Marchetti SF260, though!

Mind you, I suppose that a retractable undercarriage was just an open invitation to leave the damned thing up...

Gadget :ok:

[Onan the Clumsy]

London UAS in the early eighties.

It's hard to type this, but I quit after a year. I don't really know why and I wish someone had taken me into a back room and kicked some sense into me. I didn't really enjoy it, but I think that's because I didn't know how to, if that makes any sense.

Still, we all have one thing we regret, usually a girl we lost or a job we never took. That's mine.

I'd like to go back though and tell the blokes that gave me the chance that they weren't wrong. I'm closing in on 1200 hours now and they were the start of it.

Sorry chaps.

[Jackonicko]

Yeah, have to concur. ULAS early 1980s was the biggest and the best.

I went from an all-male boarding school to a college where pretty girls outnumbered blokes (most of whom were spotty maths/comp sci studes) by about 2:1.

You can imagine how much I enjoyed that change in environment. But three years as a VR on London UAS was still the highlight of my 'academic' career.

Do I know you, Onan? :}

[BEagle]

ULAS at the beginning of the 1970s as a student on the Chipmunk was excellent as well. 3 years paid as an APO, 1 year paid a Plt Off - and no pressure with one's flying apart from being told to ease off if you turned up too often at White Waltham. Summer camps at Thorney Island, Marham, Newton and Abingdon. 3 of which have now closed. I flew 130 hours, 55 of which were solo.

ULAS at the beginning of the 1990s as a Bulldog QFI was more fun than I'd expected it to be - particularly when we were at Abingdon. Quite a few APOs still, but they weren't paid as well as we'd been. No real pressure on their flying apart from the annual cull of those who didn't pull their weight. Summer camps at St Mawgan and Benson.

Visited ULAS earlier this year at Wyton. No pilot APOs. A few bursars who aren't paid much. The students have to do well enough in 62 hours plus up to 18 hours of flex element spread thinly over 3 years so that they'll be streamed FJ. They don't go away on Summer Camp any more.....

Met a lad recently at a flying club who'd done the 'tactical recruit' thing. To get enough continuity at a UAS for FJs whilst studying for a good degree was, he'd decided, unlikely. A bursary wasn't going to help him clear his student loan as well as getting a vacation job would. But were he to save his UAS flying for the vacations in order to get some continuity, he wouldn't be able to find a job which paid enough to help with his loan repayments. Neither would he have much of a holiday between university terms or any time to study. So he decided to wait until he'd almost finished, then applied for the RAF. He was successful; he also timed it right so that he had a good break after University, went to Cranwell in the late Winter and then did EFTS in the Summer with excellent continuity....

[chippy63]

Beagle,
No summer camp? Is this the norm now? That was the highlight of the year!

[BEagle]

Sadly, yes. I agree that it was the highlight of the student (and QFI) year - the students became a well-knit team and thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

One of the reasons behind the Summer Camp was to experience the life on an operational RAF station. We did at Thorney Island and Marham - but that started to want at Newton and Abingdon. The students at St Mawgan also managed the odd trip in a Nimrod - usually the girls, for some unaccountable reason.....

But no longer, it seems. What a pity.

[chippy63]

We had St Mawgan one year, but it was Shacklebeasts then. Took a couple of days for the ringing in the ears to pass, but a great trip.

By the way, Beagle, all the best for the next stage of your career, hope it all works out as you would like, and here's hoping you continue to contribute to these threads; your posts always give a decent perspective.

[Airbedane]

Well BEagle, what a small world it is! I managed Thorney, Marham and Newton with London UAS, but then I had to go to Cranwell to finish my basic training.

Wasn't White Waltham a magic place? I go back to the WLAC about twice a year for meetings - the beams are still there, but there's no way I could swing on 'em now.....! The Old ULAS HQ is still there too, and the barrack block, but they look more like offices nowadays.

Oh well, back to the thread. Yes, UAS was a great intro to the RAF, I'd certainly do it all again, if only I could.

A

[Dunhovrin]

It's all relative - I bet in 20 years time they'll be crusties banging on about xxxUAS in the early 00s and the hoolies held etc etc.

Being on a UAS can't be any worse than not being on a UAS.

[Horrace]

Sunderland Matt

Can't recommend the UAS route enough.

I joined University of Manchester in 97 with no intention of joining the armed forces but was plucked off the street at the freshers fair to join what I thought was a flying club. I was studying engineering, which is a fairly time consuming degree but I believe that without the UAS my time at University would have sucked.

I met people that I will be friends with for the rest of my life, the social life was the best I have experienced, I got paid every now and again and my degree was so boring.

I managed to secure my self a Desmond (2:2) and had the best years of my life. My mates who didn't do the UAS route but still went to Uni are now 1 or 2 years older than me but at the same stage of training (just starting Valley).

Woodvale may be quiet however my experiences of flying out of operational bases was useful but very frustrating as you were treated like second class citizens. At Woodvale the base is yours to do what you want with.

I may be bais but MASUAS was an excellent UAS, with a high proportion of its members joining full time and, in my year, all but 2 went fast jet indicating the quality of the training.

I am a big fan of the UAS system

[YellowBelly]

EMUAS mid-70s as a Cadet Pilot

Many happy memories of those halcyon days at Newton (nights out in Nottingham), summer camps at Bicester (are there still so many nurses homes in Oxford?) and Brawdy (female druids). Oh - and some flying in the Bulldog (16 turn spin, prepare to abandon...but a lovely little aeroplane). And most of my fellow VR members did eventually join up as aircrew - any of you guys still out there or should I post to Friends Reunited?
Overall, I think it was the sort of fun time guys used to have when the majority of young officers joined the full-time Service directly from school. As for sacrificing a good degree to go FJ, suspect its largely irrelevant - you've either got the aptitude or you haven't, and more time at the UAS will not change that.

[right chopper]

I was always told that I'd meet my friends for life at university. That certainly stands true of my EMUAS mates; top days and nights at Newton and excellent flying on the 'dog. In my own opinion there is no denying it is the perfect experience to introduce yourself gently to the real RAF and prep your liver for the alcohol intake during flying training.
In my time pilots could still complete EFT, get a first and go on to flying training in whichever stream-it's not all about FJ you know!

Fellow Emus, we are the ones.....

[UNflyboy]

UAS - fantastic! MASUAS - cosmic!

I was a sponsored Nav in the Early 90's, studying Engineering at Manchester, and flying with MASUS at Woodvale. As all UAS Navs used to do, I did some of that pilot stuff up to circuit consol which proved extremely beneficial in my future Air Force career.

I left the Air Force a fews years ago and made the switch from back to front seat; UAS training (not to mention all the Nav stuff I'd done) undoubtedly gave me an advantage over other ab-initio pilots. I'm sure it's fairly safe to say, that commercial employers appreciate all Air Force trained personnel, including those that spent time in the UAS .

On the social front, nothing compares with the UAS dining in nights; Woodvale's were clearly the best of all, but perhaps my memories are slightly clouded by nostalgia now and alcohol then...

I must also thank the former Boss of LUAS for bringing an F4 to woodvale and leaving it unattended at the tower for so long!! Never had so much fun with an Aeroplane; those involved know who you are!

I'm currently flying for the UN in south Sudan but UAS days remain vivid in the memory!!

[LOMCEVAK]

SUAS, mid 70s, Chipmunks then Bulldogs from Hamble. Summer camps at Leconfield, Swinderby and Wyton. Holiday detachments to all sorts of stations flying Gnats, Lightnings etc. Flew Tuesday to Saturday inclusive, wonderful p**s-ups in Town HQ in Bugle Street, Southampton every Saturday night. Hungover Sunday morning, cleared up Town HQ Sunday lunchtime, p**sed again by tea time. Re-arranged any essential academic work for a Monday so that I could fly rest of week. Spent 3-4 hrs on a Friday evening copying up a mates lecture notes for the week (my token sacrifice). Flew 100 hrs in first 2 years. Enforced reduction in flying (liver really suffered as a result!). On a University Cadetship had enough money not to have to work in the holidays. Managed a 2:2 to get the accelerated promotion and more dosh. Still flying FJ 27 years after graduation. Without a shadow of a doubt the greatest social life and cameraderie that I ever experienced whilst in uniform. Would I do it again? Yes please, starting tomorrow.

Just remember, nostalgia is not what it used to be in the good old days.

[BEagle]

Some excellent posts on this thread confirming how good the UAS system was...

But - and it's a big but - things have changed very considerably over the last year or so.

[SunderlandMatt]

So is it still worth having them?

I had fun on mine, and got plenty of flying done, but I have to say I had a better time with my friends at Uni. Possibly something to do with that fact that at Uni you can choose your friends, whereas on a UAS you are forced to be with the people recuited with you. I didn't appreciate this much as I just couldn't put up with their wannabe pretentious attitude. The UAS is not something to brag about. Especially the one I was on! :suspect:

[Jackonicko]

Bear with me on this, and don't jump down my throat, 'cos I'm not being rude, but.......

Since UASs now use standard RAF selection tests and a squadron interview (conducted by exactly the same sort of GD(P) officers who do the same job at OASC, and who are probably following similar guidelines) the average UAS may still represent a relatively realistic microcosm of the wider Air Force. Certainly it would be surprising if it did not recruit the same type of young, keen, enthusiastic wannabe FJ pilots, and I'd be surprised if Squadron life doesn't still enjoy some similarities with service life.

If you didn't enjoy it, and if you didn't get on with your squadron mates (many of whom will go on to join up), maybe it's a pointer that you'd also be out of step in the RAF proper?

Just a thought.

[SunderlandMatt]

I think it was just them, coupled with the fact that I had lived quite a distance away from them i.e. I was at a different Uni. I have a large number of very good friends who were not on my squardron.

I agree with what you are saying Jackinicko, but I do/have enjoyed the RAF and the UAS system as a whole, but think it's important to have a good Uni life too.

:ok:

[tartanspecials]

Whatever the format, your time on a UAS is always brillaint. I have had the good fortune of being associated with four - initially as a student (1980 - 84) and then as QFI, CFI and Boss (1993 -97). Yes the days of the VR flying club have long since gone, but what they have to offer is still fantastic. During my final stint as Boss the rules changed so that the VR students were effectivley streamed on their performance before they had even joined up - which was a bit harsh. However, you soon worked out who the guys and girls were that you would want to join and if the cracked the syllabus to an acceptable standard then they got a FJ rec. Even with the cutbacks and limitations of the system the good ones still shone through. The greatest crime of all though is not now going on summer camp - great memories. It is fantastic to now keep bumping into ex-students and see how they have progressed - although 3 different UASs as an instructor I find it difficult to remember all the names let alone which UAS!

[Vortex Thing]

I was on Oxford UAS in the early 90s. I had the space cadet, flying schol background and thought this to be the normal progression. I had a very good social life with the squadron but found that there was not much of a meritocracy going on.

If daddy was a senior enough officer then you were considered good regardless of dedication or ability and the favourite student thing got a touch annying if you weren't part of the Strike Command Offspring elite.

In fact it showed me that the RAF seemed only to care about individuals and not teams at all. The RAF officer became to me the epitomization of self centre. It was get ahead first, even if it meant taking the credit for someone else's labour and leadership was something to be frowned at lest it get in the way of looking good as opposed to being good.

I subsequently went Army Air Corps and at RMAS realized that there was leadership in the British Army but also now having served since then realize the that different types of officer I encountered in those days was due to the vastly different roles encountered in service.

Of course, I think that RAF officers would rather sip G&Ts than spit napalm and those I still know and meet I find to be civil, professional, dedicated but a little lacking in the big picture. RAF officers will never lead a coy/sqn group across the line of departure but then at leas they fly enough hours that they can do more than stay current.

I found the army through the RAF and look back on those days with fondness now they have been tarnished by the reality of operations across the globe. It was however an invaluable learning process that saved me from mistakenly going to IOT where I would probably have not been quite at home.

I think that the way that they have gone by rumour sounds good. It should be that only those who are going to join get to stay and further those who arent good enough are seen as such in the streaming process. I missed out on not being in a meritocracy. If you are good enough you will always get through.

Happy flying :ok:

[Still Smiling]

Is there a ULAS in the house???!! Had a blast, even though I was a lowly ground branch stude.

Have to say I disagree slightly about the individual vs team thing from VT. I'm one of few ground branch officers on my sqn, and feel very much part of the team. Maybe it's cos all the pilots get to fly so much, the sqn is a well bonded fighting machine!!!
:cool:

[bighedsmallface]

Just put down my G+T (bought on my own - no rounds for this non team player) to agree absolutely with the idea that UAS is a good social filter. Those who didn't fit in may well have gone on to pastures greener, but it doesn't mean you'd want to sit down and have a beer with them (individually purchased of course).

Joined LUAS in 96 (Horrace perhaps we know each other) and the only bit of me that regrets it is my liver. Dunhrovin - you must have caught us on an off day!

Lets go f*&^%$n mental, lets go f#$&&n mental, ah laa laa laa.:}


PS Vortex Thing - was probably because you were on OUAS. Rest of us were far more welcoming to those not to the manor born:E