Got it from the CAA!!!

[Rob 747]

Ive just got the answer to most peoples questions directly from the CAA!!!!

Q. How long after getting the ATPLS have i got to get the IR?

A. After you have passed the last exam you have got 36 months to get the license (CPL).

Once you have got the the license you have got an extra 2 years to get the IR.

So in total that makes it 5 years to get the CPL/IR!!

---------------------------------------------
This is true as i have had this confirmed by the CAA!
---------------------------------------------

Dont beleive me??? Call them!

[RVR800]

That is interesting

It is far from clear on their web site
unless they have something in latest news

Of course as far as the old NATIONAL ATPL
exams were concerned it was always 5 years
Although you will be required to pass the IR by Jun 2002 to retain frozen priviledges
under the old system regardless of exam dates

[Polar_stereographic]

RVR,

But the frozen ATPL is just a CPL with ATPL exam credits. CAA will not issue any more UK ATPL licences after June 2002, so my take on that is that if you do not meet the full requirements for the National ATPL by that date, you have no choice but to convert to a JAR licence in order to retain your ATPL credits.

Naturaly, all at further cost to all concerned.

PS

[RVR800]

Polar.

Yes this is correct.

You can only upgrade to JAR ATPL from frozen
national ATPL after June 2002 but the NATIONAL exam credits still count at this stage but one needs the initial IRT pass to carry it over.

You would also need 500h multi-crew as well before upgrade.

Got your IR reval sorted yet Polar?

Geting back to the point of the initial post
Latest policy update still seems to indicate
a 36 m rule for JAR ATPL examinees for both
IR an CPL .. see ..
http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_policyupdate .pdf (http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_policyupdate.pdf)

[ 03 September 2001: Message edited by: RVR800 ]

[ 03 September 2001: Message edited by: RVR800 ]

[Polar_stereographic]

RVR,

Re IR, start Monday, and it will come as no surprise that it's with PAT.

Re the 5-10 year thing, Gatwick's line on that is that the renewal with a Staff examiner is identical to the initial test, so no gain there. The section in the examiners handbook will be removed at the next edition, allegedly.

When I'm down there on Monday, I'm going to have a word with the 'Staff' examiners to see what there take on it is.

I'll keep you posted.

PS

[Pub User]

The advice I have from the CAA is that (under UK CAA Sytem), I have until 30 June 2002 to get a CPL, then until 2 October 2003 to pass the IR, in order to retain my ATPL Exam credits. That is 3 years after taking the final (Pef A) exam.

[RVR800]

Pub User - Get it in writing..

My letter runs contrary to this..

:eek:

I hold a CAA CPL and NATIONAL ATP exams
CAA say 'regardless of NATIONAL exam
date validities (5 years). They say I have until June 2002 to complete CPL/IR and retain frozen priviledges...

To upgrade to JAR ATPL after that date would require 500h multicrew etc.

Perf A is an extraneous subject under NATIONAL exam requirements and is in effect free standing as far as I am aware

The relationship between Perf A and IR tests is irrelevant as it's an 'associated' exam under NATIONAL exam rules.

Let me know how you get on.

Incidentally.
When there is a recession then the number of people doing the ATPL exams will drop like
a stone. This is because people will not commit to this huge expense in such a short time frame (36 months).

They will wait until they can see economic improvement within 36 mts - leading to training bottlenecks in boom periods

[ 04 September 2001: Message edited by: RVR800 ]

[Polar_stereographic]

Ah,

Good to see the folk at Gatwick are maintaining their consistantly inconsistant advice.

PS

Sorry, could not resist that.

[Noggin]

Rob 747

I suspect you may not have asked the right question. The JAA ATPL exams are good for an IR for 36 months from passing the last exam. It has nothing to do with holding a CPL, that must also be achieved in the same 36 month period. It is all written in JAR-FCL1 except that the amendment moving the 36 months from the first to the last exam has not been incorporated yet. That was published in a recent NPA.

There is no additional 2 years!! If you have taken the National exams then there is no 36 month deadline for the IR, only for the CPL which can only be issued to 30 June 2002.

P-S

Do not convert you UK CPL to a JAA CPL under any circumstances, or you will lose your UK ATPL credit. Meet the requirements for a JAA ATPL whilst holding a UK National licence and then apply for it.

[Polar_stereographic]

Nogin,

That's not my understanding. With an IR, converting to JAA WILL carry over your ATPL credits, with an extended validity of 7 years from your IR pass. This is a rolling 7 years too, so each time you renew the IR, you get another7 years.

What makes you think that the credits do not carry over? That was the info PPRuNe and Gatwick gave me, so I'm curios why you think diferently. Maybe it has something to do with number of hours maybe? (I'm over 1300)

Do it nicely.

PS

[RVR800]

Polar ..
Nogin refers to the case when one elects to convert ones national CPL to JAR CPL - he is
correct - this would be foolish - youre
national so no worries.

[Polar_stereographic]

RVR,

But, so do I. As you can see from my total hours, I only have a CPL, but have the ATPL's credited.

If I convert to JAR, I will retain thoses ATPL credits as described. Remember, I'm going from National CPL to JAR CPL.

I'm confused, but then why am I not surprised?

PS

[RVR800]

You're in the same poosition as me
I think

I have 1000h TT NATIONAL CPL just about to finish the IR start next week and have passed NATIONAL ATPLs exams

From June 2002 you can still use youre
NATIONAL CPL/IR with frozen ATPL exams
in an airline you wil retain this until you have 500 h multi-crew

Then directly convert NATIONAL CPL to JAR ATPL

Do NOT convert via the JAR CPL

Comprende?

[Polar_stereographic]

RVR,

Si, compreno, however, my understanding is that the benefit of converting via JAR CPL is that you get a further 7 years (as opposed to 5, even if the ATPL was an option) and rolling at that to meet the requirements. The ATPL credits are transfered, and therefore NOT lost is my understanding.

I'm like yourself and also starting the IR next week. Where you doing it?

My CPL expires next year, so I need to choose whether to renew or get all fully JAR'd up before Dec 2002, by which time I should be all IR'd and MCC'd up, but still within the old 5 year ATPL limit that will run out in Mar 2006.

PS

[RVR800]

Polar

Good luck
Read this to find out what awaits you: [URL=http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_01v3final.pdf]http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_01v3final.pdf[/ URL]
Keep clear of JAR CPL when you renew
renew the national CPL if poss

[ 05 September 2001: Message edited by: RVR800 ]

[Polar_stereographic]

Thanks RVR,

and naturaly the best of luck to you too.

That IRT stuff makes uncomfortable reading, but remember that I've done it before, and the word on the street is the examiners are not what they used to be, and are 'out to pass you', as opposed to 10 years ago, when I think there was a definate partial pass policy. I'm not saying it's easy, but equaly, I think that doc makes it seem worse than it is. Once into it, I suspect you'll tick most of the boxes without knowing it.

I take it you are doing it full time.

I've been bashing the BMH procedure on FS2000, and where as I'm not up to standard by a long way, I do feel I'm improving. Also, realy good to keep the scan together.

Re the CPL, OK, no JAR, but how long are your ATPL credits good for? I thought that it was 5 years from the last pass, and do I take it that's still the case?

Regards

PS

[RVR800]

I am finishing off the IR - the problem
is I have elected to do it in dribs and drabs
- probably unwise - but retain my day job
I know what to do - its just doing it
The last crack at it coincided with lack of sleep (baby) and lack of currency. This time
there will be no problem. I had some sim time
a few days ago and I had no problem.

The test basically consists of a procedural
and RV approach, precision and none precision
and Asymmetric hold. The Asymmetric NDB/DME procedure requires a decent to MDA further
visual descent to Asymm commital height and
a asymm goaround with circle to land.

You will probably have to do the GFT3 bit
as well. Full panel and Limited panel stalls
etc. Its in the PDF.

They like you to be proactive with ATC as well

The passes are good as long as the IR is current within x years. x=7?

[Polar_stereographic]

RVR,

Sounds realy similar to me, except the kids don't keep us up anymore...

How long's it taken you doing it in bits and pieces? I take it you can get to Triple A's relativly easily. I would have considered going with them, but it's just too far from home.

Best of luck

PS

[mechantloup]

eh guys!, I wish you good luck cuz you are not going to fly for an airline.
Look around you, no one can tell you the same thing.Even your government don't know what they are talking about, but when it's time to pay...ah!, suddenly, they know what to do.Seriously, it's not serious!.
What I understand:If you don't pay more, you are going to lose your licenses!
Am I wrong?

[Pub User]

It's all very confusing, but the advice I have from the CAA, either from GIDs or directly to me in writing, is as follows:

I can be issued with a CPL until Jun 02, thereafter I have until 3 Nov 03 to get an IR. My ATPL theory credits will stay.

If, when the CPL expires, I do not have sufficient hours for a JAR ATPL, then I can renew the UK CPL (with ATPL theory credits) until I have.

Seems to make sense?

[Polar_stereographic]

Pub User,

Tell me, how long are your ATPL credits good for once you have the CPL/IR issued? I was under the impresion that there was a five year time limit on them, and if you did not mee the requirements for ATPL issue after that it was back to the class room with regard to the ATPL writtens.

This is where the JAR comes in handy as providing your IR stays current, you will never lose your ATPL credits.

That's my understanding, and I'd realy like to know if it's not the case.

PS

[RVR800]

>eh guys!, I wish you good luck cuz you are >not going to fly for an airline.
>Look around you, no one can tell you the >same thing.Even your government don't know >what they are talking about, but when it's >time to pay...ah!, suddenly, they know what >to do.Seriously, it's not serious!.
>What I understand:If you don't pay more, >you are going to lose your licenses!
>Am I wrong?

Ronchonner
Yes you have completely missed the thread
You are the weakest link
Goodbye