3 years of flying but still no joy for my stomach

[MikeEcho]

:(

Folks,

here's the story. I started out flying about 3 years ago. I'm now approaching about 150 hours inc around 100 P1 (pure solo) time.

This may sound rediculous for someone of my experience, but I suffer from motion sickness in light planes all the time and in a way which has long depressed me. This affects the sort of trips I plan, i.e no more than 1hr:30 in the air at a time. I get the constant "You're a pilot who gets sick!" nonsense :ooh: from friends and relatives.

The simple fact is I can't get into a light plane without swallowing at least half a motion sickness tab. Cessna's are a definite no no for me. Warriors make for a smoother ride and Arrows are even better than Warriors but I can't go on this way. Don't get me wrong, I am often commended on my flying ability and awareness and am even sometimes told I concentrate too hard but the motion sickness tablets do have after effects which I can't live with anymore, e.g. dry mouth, drowsiness. Please don't misunderstand me, I am not reckless at all. I am fully in control of the situation and am both wise and alert enough to know when I should stop flying. Luckily for me these after-effects set in about 4 hours after consuming the tablets but it takes a day to get over each tablet.

I know a lot of you will say the motion sickness tab thing is just wrong and that I should try other things like ginger, mints, ginger-beer but believe me I have tried each and every one and have to learn the hard way that none of the above work! :yuk:

However, recently I have purchased a device called ReliefBand which is worn a bit like a watch and when turned on stimulates the median nerve preventing motion sickness. This does it's job to an extent (it keeps my next batch of sick bags clean) but I still feel like **** when flying, with the feeling that anytime now I'm gonna have to let it out.

This is a heck of a situation, and the day I am no longer required to fly light singles or twins (but rather A320's - weh hey!) could not come any sooner. I'm looking for advice. What can I do to help me become void of this condition? If you have suffered from something like this in the past, or know someone who has I would love to hear your stories.

Many thanks.

[OBK!]

Hi MikeEcho,

I feel sorry for you with what you have to put up with. The only thing I can suggest is maybe trying different flying techniques, to diagnose the source of the problem.

A smooth ride in an aircraft, is hardly any different to a smooth ride in a car, and infact can be more pleasant!

When you fly, do you concentrate too much no your instruments? This causes the brain to do a lot of information processing, more than required, and you should also be spending more time with your eyes outside the cockpit. Try swithcing between different methods.

Do you ever look behind you whilst flying? Or do you look to your left/right for long periods? This can play around with your vestibular system, because as the aircraft is moving forwads, the scenery is moving away from you and your vestibular system is also receiving a backwards motion...as you can imagine, your brain get's a pit mixed up and the common resulting side effect is spewing!

A reason why you may not have overcome your motion sickness is because of anxiety. You may have got to a point in your logbook, after so many hours, where you thought "oh my god, I am still getting this motion sickness", and now everytime you dread it, and it's almost like inducing it back into your body!

Next time you go flying, enjoy it, try and forget about it and even do a few moderatley fast manouvres, a few dives, and calibrate your vestibular system. See if it works.

Good luck with the motion sickness, let us know how it goes on, but remember, try and forget about it. If it still doesn't go away, try and work around it or trying to find the source of it, and taclking it.

Cheers
obk

[aidanf]

May not be relevant, but I know a guy who despite having no problem with his hearing for his medical had his ears checked after suffering similarly to yourself - they found something, sorted it out and now he's fine. All pretty minor stuff, but made a major difference to him

[Kerosene Kraut]

Hello ME,

it is not a shame to feel sick sometimes. It is happening to very experienced pilots from time to time including fighter pilots, astronauts, glider and such. However I'd try to check if you're able to fly safe without taking any drugs. If you feel sick- no problem. Just need to be able to do your job in a safe manner without drugs and too much distraction.
You could try to figure out what makes you sick. Like a hidden fear of flying or fear of motion. Maybe you could do some real violent aerobatics class and get used to it a bit more.

Regards, Kraut

[mad_jock]

I seem to remember a lecture years ago from my engineering course about the human body and natural frequencys.

Basically if the plane that you are bouncing around in is wobbling at the natural frequency of your stomach up you chuck. Which is why they say its better on a full stomach than an empty, all the food is doing is altering the natural frequency. The example given was kids in cars chuck up but then grow out of it later. Thier stomach grows and its natural frequency changes away from the suspension frequency.

The only reason why I remember this is because while I was working as a research asst I was experimenting using a 10kw vibrator in the 1-200 Hz range and 3 girls in the lab were off work with terrible period pains, which would only occur after they had been back to work for a couple of hours. One of the suspension engineers suggested that my work was actually getting the natural frequency of there wombs. So with out telling them I only experimented in the evenings and they didn't have any problems. Did 1 days worth of experiments and the were off sick again. I wasn't brave enough to tell them the cause.

But the good news is that as you move up the weights of airplanes the problem should go away if its a natural frequency effect. This would agree with the fact you don't get affected as much in a Archer as a C150. Wing loading should effect it as well.


Just an Idea the lecture was over 12 years ago now.

MJ

[pulse1]

There was a similar thread here some time ago but I have failed to find it.

There was a suggested cure which involved sitting in a swivel chair with your head well over to one side. Continuous rotation of the chair (get someone to rotate it for you) will make you feel awful and you may well be sick. However, it was claimed that this would build up your tolerance and was recommended for military pilots who were having this problem during training.

I can't vouch for it personally though. If you do find a cure which works for you, please let us know.

[Circuit Basher]

That's essentially what the Institute of Aviation Medicine do for the RAF at Farnborough. Having tried various sessions with the 'victim' to ensure no medical basis exists for the problem, then they throw them in a centrifuge and try to de-sensitise them (wouldn't want to be one of the cleaners there! ;) ). If all that fails, then the potential jet jockey gets re-streamed to be a truckie (if he can manage that), a wocka-wocka pilot (if he can stand that!) or a scope dope (fighter controller!).

Wife, who used to be terribly seasick, survived 2 months of sea trials in the Irish Sea using the Sea Bands that work on the wrist acupressure points; as you've already tried those (PS are you SURE they were on correctly - if they're out of position, the effect is limited), then I won't suggest those.

Maybe worth going to see your GP / AME to see if he / she can suggest any possible reason (blocked semicircular canals, ear wax, poor sinuses, etc) or refer you to a specialist. If all of these fail, then I have heard of people undergoing hypnosis to find whether there is a deep underlying (suppressed) psychological cause that maybe treatable.

[bomberjacket]

The reason we tend to feel ill when flying or in a car, is due to the mismatch of the information observed by the brain, and experienced by the middle ear .
this tells the body that the senses are in disagreement , the body has evolutionary response to this type of situation, and belives itself to be poisned. As a precautionary measure the stomach empties its contents and hence the bad feeling. I myself suffer from motion sickness, and belive that there is a strong plaussibility in (if you are in an extreme dilema) reducing the pain through simple hypnosis and that with some simple autosuggestion techniques you can slowly train the body (or more specifically the mind) to realize what is happeneing is ok and to prevent yourself being sick. I myself have tried these techniques and have found them to be beneficial in reducing the bad feeling but not as yet irradicating it.

[MikeEcho]

Thank you so much for your input, all of you.

The theory that there may be something wrong with my ears is somewhat plausable. I've had this problem with chewing and ear pressure virtually all my life. A big crunch normally leads to a weird sensation in my left ear. May be I should explore this road?

I agree that there is an element of fear with regards to puking up each time I step into a light-aircraft and that I should focus a bit more on enjoyment.

If the problem is related to fumes, of which I seem to smell and taste a lot more than others then what can I do here? For example, during the last flight with a mate, I complained non-stop about a bad fumey smell, his reply was "what are you talking about!"

I've done a lot of research on ginger-capsules, and a particular brand was proven to be more effective than Dramamine (the stuff which helped me through my first 10 hours!).

For the next flight I aim to:

The night before, swivel around like a mad-man on my chair until I feel like throwing up (done it last night, boy! :ugh:)

Avoid caffeine, greasy food and spicy food.

Swallow a couple of ginger-capsules an hour prior to the flight.

And where my ReliefBand.

I will then slowly start to eliminate the above measures one by one and see how it goes.

[redsnail]

Just to throw another spanner in the works, how are your eyes?
Are they perfect 20/20 or is there something slightly amiss?
I didn't need to wear my specs officially for years but I found that I was more comfortable with them on. I am ever so slightly cross eyed and this certainly does add a bit of confusion to the poor ol' brain (when dealing with the balance bit/vestibular system).
I used to get airsick fairly often. Yeah hated it.

I "cured" it by more regular flying (ie desensitized myself), didn't eat spicy stuff (now it's not a problem), wore the specs, kept a sickbag handy (never need them when they are there), didn't fly with a hangover, kept myself cool and comfortable.

Good luck.

[CaptAirProx]

Might sound silly this but as an instructor I often see pilots making a real meal out of what they are doing. Often due to their lack of experience in what their doing. Obviously you are not inexperienced now but maybe like them, you tend to lift your head up and down from lookout to looking at your chart far to often and maybe far too quickly.

I sometimes if feeling groggy get a bit sick from too much head movement as I busy myself around the cockpit. To correct I just forget the paperwork, look outside and try and focus on the view in one direction for a while and only gently look inside for important things. I suppose its a simple way of relaxing or chilling out as it were!

Another gotcha for feeling sick is dare I say it...........over use of rudder. Hate to tell pilots to not use rudder (most don't!) but if you are OTT when correcting yaw this will definately stuff your senses. Are you tense on the controls and tend to over react to turbulence. Again I have flown with many pilots like this and to be honest it makes me feel sick. The just over compensate with everything. Use one hand on the control and hold it gently!

If it smells funny, have you been keeping the cockpit ventilated? Sounds obvious but you never mentioned it. Light aircraft are classic for those pongs of mouldy carpet and avgas100LL.

Seriously though, I don't know where you fly from , but try plodding off somewhere with an easy VFR routing and just sit back, relax and enjoy the view, forget the radio and simply fly the aeroplane. See if that helps. Could then suggest you are working too hard and stressing yourself.

Good luck.

[IcarusGR]

What is a good meal to have before going up in the air?? any suggestions?
drinks ?

[Circuit Basher]

Allegedly orange juice, as it tastes the same both ways!! ;)

Seriously, I'd recommend moderately bland food which is not to acidic / spicy if you have a tendency towards upset stomachs. Something like a ham sandwich (in plain sliced bread) with either water (or perhaps milk). Certainly not carbonated drinks such as C*ke or P*epsi!!

[Northern Chique]

ME just a few questions for you...

1 you say youve had valsalva problems most of your life... (popping ears when swallowing etc) ... heres a related problem... have you had recurrent bouts of tropical ear, swimmers ear type outer ear infections? or a number of middle ear infections..? the answer to this will narrow many of the possibilities to a few.. also any repeated sore throats? severe colds a flu leave you feeling unbalanced particuarly at the congested head cold stage.

2 have you had a blow to the head that you may remember at some stage? It may not have been a total knock out, but severe enough you'd remember.

3 a car prang in your history? sore neck, tension headaches?

4 can you roll into a pool or underwater and remain orientated? Or any height / orientation difficulties especially at altitude...

5 how much are you map reading? the eyes question by redsnail is a very valid point... and not always picked up. Tired eyes dont often cope as well as "awake" ones... they are operated with muscles too...

sounds stupid, I know but I may have figured it out for you... and yes its curable, most of the time with very little fuss.

PM me if you feel better doing it that way.

[Kaptin M]

Humans were not endowed with the means to fly naturally.

Maybe it's a case of The Big Finger sending you a message, me.
"Me, you human - not bird! Shouldst thou continue these antics, thy gut will be wrenched from thine body. DESIST, ME......DESIST!!"

Survival of the fittest, and all that!!

[gingernut]

egg, lightly scrambled, on toast.

[Obs cop]

MikeEcho,

I spent 6 months at the Insitiute of Aviation Medicine as what was so nicely called a "sickie".

I have suffered from acute motion sickness in the military flying pipline and know exactly how you feel.

The swivel chair thing is a techinque used at IAM, all be it a more complex version. It desensitises the cochlea to the movement of the fluid. By spinning around the vertical axis and moving your head left, right, forwards and backwards for 5 or 6 seconds at a time, you basically induce motion sickness. You need your eyes shut and the rotation does not need to be that fast, only 90 degrees per second (4 seconds for a full rotation). It will be more effective if the person turning the chair calls out random directions for the head movements. Move the head fully to ensure that the maximum effect is gained.

Take it to the point where you feel really unwell, but are not yet sick, then lie down for 10 minutes to recover. You will feel really sh1t for a while, I could only do 2 sessions per day. Over a period of 3 or 4 weeks doing this at laest once per day you should find that you acn sustain it for longer and longer.

When you are flying the following have a major impact.


Alcohol.

Thins the fluid in the cochlea apparently, but 1 pint within the 24 hour period before a flight makes you twice as likely to feel unwell

Food.

Get some in you (doesn't really matter what) and give it at least 1 hour to settle before you fly.

Temperature.

Keep the cabin temperature cool to cold. When I flew in the IAM hawk I had snow coming out of the air vents! It reduces the symptoms when you feel unwell, ie. clammy skin and sweating and helps you concentrate. Ignore whining pax.

Currency.

You will probably never be completely clear of motion sickness, but you can become atuned to the movements and thus more resilient. The more frequently you fly, the more resilient you will become. If you can afford, say 2 hours flying per week, split it into 2x1 hour flights, 1 at weekend and 1 midweek.

Medical.

See your doctor. I once had a condition called labyrinthitis which is an infection in the cochlea. I got motion sickness just walking!
It was easily fixed with antibiotics I hasten to add. There may be an existing condition, but don't rely on a miracle cure/daignosis of ear problems, you can still deal with it if needs be.
I never got on with motion sickness pills. At one point I was trying them combined with a prescribed stimulant to combat the drowsyness. That was before IAM who do not prescribe/use drugs and have about an 90% success rate with their tecniques.

Look out.

Try to keep your view out of the cockpit as much as possible, around 90%. Try to do the bulk of your lookout when you are straight and level and limit head movement in turns.

Attitude.

If you constantly think you are going to be sick, you automatically concentrate on the symptoms, making you feel worse and causing a vicious circle.


I hope this helps and remember to ignore those who state its all in the mind. They are ignorant to the reality of the problem. Good luck.