A Question for the PPrune moderators...

[JetMouse]

Don't know whether you guys have done this before - but i would be interested to hear your stories on how you got to the flight deck...

[ 03 September 2001: Message edited by: JetMouse ]

[scroggs]

JM,
yes, we have done it before. In fact, I think WWW's story has been recapped here in the last 24 hours.
My own story is less interesting than some, as most of you have no interest in the military. But here goes, for what it's worth.
I joined the RAF in 1977. I joined to be an engineer - at the time, the RAF was taking A-level-qualified people for engineering commissions. I wore glasses, so I assumed I'd never get aircrew but, on attending Biggin Hill (who said Hornchurch?) I was assured my eyesight was OK (it wasn't), and would I like to be a pilot? I said, yeah, OK. My dad was a Lightning pilot at the time, so I wasn't actually too sure about doing the 'following the old man' bit, but I had got a few hours gliding and knew that, deep down, I really wanted the opportunity to give it a go.
After officer training at RAF Henlow, I went to Linton-on-Ouse for my basic training on the Jet Provost. Not long after my first solo, they realised that my eyesight wasn't up to much so I had a tense month or two waiting while the RAF decided whether or not it could afford to buy me glasses. They did (the SMO at Linton had originally diagnosed my myopia 3 years earlier in Germany!) and I resumed my training, now as a course on my own.
I had a hard time at Linton; I was not a natural pilot and I enjoyed the social life more than the military aspects - a failing throughout my RAF career! But I did well enough to graduate to fast jet training, firstly on the Jet Provost Mk5 at Linton and then the brand-new Hawk T1 at Valley. Lucky I did, as those who didn't pass the fast jet course at Valley said good-bye to piloting, period.
At Valley I had a ball; great flying, great aeroplane, great company. Unfortunately (for me), some of the senior help decided it would be nice if I followed my old man to the Lightning via the Hunter at TWU (Lossiemouth). The Hunter was great, but I wasn't. About half way through the weapons course, against the wishes of the staff, I resigned from fast-jet training and asked to go to the Hercules.
Again, my career went into limbo while 'they' deliberated over my future. At last, at the end of 1979, I was told I could go to the C130, via a 'multi-engine refresher' course on the Jetstream at RAF Finningley. Refresher - what a joke! I was teamed up with a group of ex Hastings, Britannia and Argosy pilots with malingi thousands of hours, and I had to keep my head above water! I made it, but it was harder than anything else I'd done so far.
The training on the C130 was a breeze by comparison, and I had a great time on my first tour on LXX Sqn at Lyneham flying the Herc in the tactical transport role - low-level, air drop, rough fields etc. And the occasional foray around the world. And the Falklands war (and Beirut, and a few other smaller punch-ups). After 3 years, at age 27, I was given a command on the C130 on 30 Sqn, a world-wide route outfit.
By this time the C130 had gained a tactical tanker role, and this became my speciality. I spent over half the next three years in the South Atlantic! I got time off for good behaviour when the RAF sent me to the Central Flying School at RAF Scampton to learn to be a QFI on Bulldogs. I'd never flown a light aircraft before in my life, but I had a ball with the 'Dog. I went on to Yorkshire UAS as the junior QFI, and graduated to the CFI over the next 4 years. It was fabulous, and I'll share the stories at the Gatbash if you're interested! Don't let Overtorque tell you any lies about this period, though!
In 1991 it was back to the C130 at Lyneham, this time on 24 Sqn, and the tactical tanker role again. As, by then, one of the more experienced guys, and a QFI, it was only a matter of time before I was grabbed for the OCU (the training squadron) to teach air-to-air refualling, low-level flying, air drop and comabt against fighters. I can honestly say there wasn't a better job in the RAF! And I still got to do the odd trip around the world. Later, it got better still when I was invited to join the Hercules display crew in 1994, becoming the display captain for the 1996 season. The final chapter was being selected as part of the 'core' team to bring the C130J into service from the end of 1996.
But, by then, I had family responsibilities. Having my first child at 40 meant I had to consider the wisdom of working for an empoyer who would retire me at 55. I decided that I needed to work to 65, and that the airlines were the only way to achieve that. I resigned from the RAF in January 1998, and had to go all out to do my ATPL (yes, all the exams) in six months. I couldn't have done it without the excellent guidance of all at Bristol Groundschool.
I applied to BA, Cathay Cargo (ASL) and Virgin, and was selected by all three, although BA were only going to offer me the hold pool. I took Virgin, on the 747, and started in August 1998. I'm still there! ;)

Edit: in June 2002 I moved to the A340 as the B742 was being wound down, and now spend my time flying the A340-300 and -600 to various ultra-longhaul destinations. Command is now no longer a distant prospect; subject to a pre-command assessment, I expect to enter command training this year (2005).

Edit again: I was successfully assessed for command in May 2005, and began command training in January 2006, still on the A340.

Further edit: I have now held a coomand on the A340-600/-300 for three years, and have 5000 or so hours on the A340 (2300 PIC), out of my total of 14000 (7000 PIC). Despite the difficulties of the airline industry in early 2009, I still wouldn't trade my job for anyone else's!

[Oleo]

AAAAAAhhhhh!
Most interesting Scroggs - thank you! :)

[JetMouse]

Thanks for that Scroggs!

How do you find the 747 compared to the Hercules? Also I have always been told that LH flying ages you physically due to the body clock disruption - any truth in this?! :)

[scroggs]

JM,
the C130 and the 747 are similar in technology and flight deck layout, and both fly with a flight engineer, so there are a lot of similarities in the basic operation. The C130 is much smaller and more manoeuvrable, and those big props give instantaneous speed control, so it's much nicer to fly in the pattern. The 747, like most jets, doesn't want to slow down, which can be awkward, and its flight director controls are an ergonomic nightmare for the non-flying pilot. On the C130, the handling pilot could operate all his own FD selections which is not recommended in the 747, so the workload on the approach is higher overall. A go-round is a major event as a result, and a relative non-event in the C130.
As for the physiological effects of long-haul flying, I'm not so sure. Most of the older pilots I fly with are pretty young-looking for their age, which may well be a benefit of a relatively low-stress lifestyle (which I find it is - but then, I'm single again!), and the deleterious effects of time-zone changes are relatively minor. Others would, no doubt, disagree!
There are, however, serious effects on your home life when you are as much use as a chocolate fireguard for 24 hours or more after your return from a trip. You may well only have 48 or 72 hours between trips, which means that it's very difficult to fit in all those things you (and your other half) currently take for granted. You need to be pretty organised, and have an understanding and independent other half, for it all to work smoothly.

[skysoarer]

I must say I was very impressed when a C130 did a very-low-level fly past over our college hall on graduation day after putting on a parachutist display; fantastically manuevuerable (spelling yes I know) as the turn towards the marque had at least 60º of bank and going like the clappers!

Not so impressed were my fellow members at the gliding club who didn't know about the fly-past as it wasn't NOTAM'd and saw it thunder over the hanger! Mercifully no-one was in the air at the time. The night before a DC3 stormed over at about 70ft; our ex-cfi saw its top-side while on finals (i.e. low). Wish I'd been there to see that one. Oh yes, that wasn't notam'd either...

SS

[ 04 September 2001: Message edited by: Skysoarer ]

[scroggs]

I assume you're talking about Cranwell and an IOT graduation? And, presumably, the C130 dropped the Falcons parachute display team?
The low fly-by from the C130 is a legitimate part of that display, and all free-fall parachute displays are (by law) notam-ed. The display itself would have to have been arranged some considerable time in advance - Hercs don't bimble round with an itinerant free-fall display team on board, looking for an unsuspecting giding club to upset! I suspect that the truth is that your gliding club CFI hadn't received or seen the appropriate notams, not that they didn't exist. As for the DC3, I have no idea!

[Sensible]

I went up to Scotland at the week-end, on a visit to Hadrians Wall,I was lucky to see a C130 presumably doing repeated low level training manoeuvers over and between the hills, what a sight, the sheer beauty of the machine and very impressive performance.

[tom775257]

Scroggs,

If you are at Virgin, do you know Nick Auderson at all?? I was given his telephone number to ask some wannabee questions, however I managed to get the answers from Pprune, and decided he probably wouldn't want to be bothered by a fool such as myself, and never called him....

[scroggs]

I assume you mean Nick Anderson? (Never heard of anyone called Auderson). No, I don't. He's not on the 747-200, as far as I know.

[tom775257]

Yup, my bad, Nick Anderson it is...
Oh well, just interested, I got the telephone number through a friends parents who are friends with him...

[ 04 September 2001: Message edited by: tom775257 ]

[cubby]

scroggs,
I had a close call with a C130.
I was in a cessna 150 just passed my GFT whan I decided to go to cranfield from southampton .2/3rds there my nav box went down so i asked cranfield for a VDF but their kit was broke too and advised me to contact Luton.As I was messing with the radio a bloody great hercules stormed past my starbaord side & level. I could see the PIC looking at me as it did a wide arc across my bows . He was so close that if I had had a 20mm cannon I could have shot at him with just a turn of my rudder .
As I changed to Luton Radar i just heard the C130 give my call sign. I then called in but by now was well spooked. Luton idented me then advised the C130 that they had my details and were 'released' I was given vectors to cranfield then before handover was informed that I had breached controled air space . When I checked, it was by 1/2mile and 200ft . I was so put off by this incident that it put my flying back by nearly 2 years.The CAA asked for a report and no action was taken .
I can only assume that Luton sent the C130 to see who the intruder was but It seemed adit over the top . Is this a routine SOP to intercept CTA busters ? At the time I was headind North so could not have penetrated any further into the zone and would have been out within 5 minutes .

It was a good lesson and fortunately I did pickup flying again.

Cheers
Cubby .

[scroggs]

Hmm. Don't really want to comment on the specific case; I'd need to hear all sides of the story before I could sensibly make any judgement.
Suffice to say that it's not a good idea to go anywhere near (never mind actually in) controlled airspace without being in contact with the owner of that airspace. Airports like Luton are very busy with large, relatively unmanouevrable aircraft, and most of those aircraft now have TCAS. Many light aircraft have non-height-encoding transponders (if they have one at all), which cause chaos when near a busy traffic pattern. To explain: if you're on a course which takes you within close proximity of the projected course of a TCAS-equipped aircraft, that aircraft will 'see' you and will have no idea what height you're at - so he will want to change course. If you are identified to the controlling authority, they can reassure the TCAS aircraft that all is well.
If you have a height-encoding transponder and stray near a pattern, you could actually cause worse chaos, as TCAS aircraft will be being instructed to take avoiding action by their kit. Getting those aircraft back in the pattern after an RA (Resolution Alert - which requires a height deviation to resolve) is a major headache, not to mention the real risk of collision!
So, 'free' airspace in UK often isn't really, and that lesson should be being rammed home by FIs loud and clear! Last point I can draw from this: good lookout has saved many lives, poor lookout has lost many. Never take your eyes inside for more than a split second when you are flying VFR; it may save your life.

[JetMouse]

Scroggs

Back to the topic - how many hours do you have now? How long do you think it will take for you to get a command? And is moving from the 742 to a 744 seen as a promotion?

Cheers
JM

[SuperTed]

Scroggs,

Thats all very well saying about keeping your eyes outside. However, I find that I sometimes spend longer than I know I should updating my plog with drift, G/S and plotting my position so I don't enter or infringe controlled airspace. I'm sure others are in the same position. Its actually worse when entering these low level corridors. You just have to be sensible and keep looking up!

[scroggs]

JM,
just short of 10,000 total, about 2,000 on the 747. With the uncertainties of the moment, it's difficult to predict time to commend. When I joined Virgin, people with my experience were getting command in 2 years or less. Now it's more likely to be 5 to 8 years for new joiners. For me, I'd guess another year to 18 months.
No, the 744 isn't seen as a promotion. With only three types it's ridiculous to have a league table! We are careful with who we select for the Classic though, as there are fewer and fewer people who can handle a flight deck full of dials. The 744 (and the A340) are easy by comparison.

SuperTed
I agree! You just have to prioritise as best you can.