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Tricky Woo
11th May 2003, 19:39
It is time for the world to know...

Fact one: there's almost no pigeon meat in shooting clays.

Fact two: Herr Draper doesn't have the faintest idea of how to spell pigeon.

Fact three: he will copy and paste my correct spelling of pigeon to try and prove otherwise.

Fact four: but we'll all know, won't we?

TW

tony draper
11th May 2003, 19:47
Shot many a woodie in me time Mr Woo, clay pigeons is for those southern fops.
Had me a old spanish 12 bore side by side with outside hammers,when I was about 14, these were the days before Magnum cartridges, so we usta buy Eley Alphamax, very potent they was, especialy on my piece as both hammer usta fall simultaniously when yer pulled either trigger.
;)

Tricky Woo
11th May 2003, 20:08
Agreed that clay pigeon shooting's for southern weedies.

In Manchester, we make our clays out of bona fide scousers. With a cry of "Right, shoot this fooker, right", the scouse clay is released and flies high into the air. "Boom-boom-boom" go the Manc's shotguns. Yer could always tell when you'd bagged one, 'cos it'd shout back "Eh, there was no need for that, like".

Wild scousers are tricker to shoot, hence the clay scousers. Wild scousers use their shellsuit camouflage to blend into the background. Everton FC shellsuits are the worst, as they blend perfectly into the sky. Cunning, that.

Anyway, it was a great occasion. Really! We'd employ beaters, who'd literally walk in a line through Liverpool, making a noises, bashing drums, and shouting "We're from the dole office" or perhaps "TV detector van is coming!" You could imagine! The skies would darken with flight after flight of startled scousers, all generally flying eastwards! Towards the waiting guns of the Manchester Wild Scouser Shooting League. Sometimes, our shooting butts would be full of spent cartridges.

Boom! Boom! Eh! Boom!

Anyway, them animal-rights people put the mockers on the whole sport. Cruelty, they said. Not a fitting sport in these modern times, they said. Typical southern do-gooders, with nary a thought for our traditional Manc country ways. For example, after a full day's wild scouser shooting, the woods and pastures of Warrington'd be full of scraps of permed hair, Everton football jerseys and Adidas trainers. Wild birds would use these scraps to line their nests. Many a baby starling has frozen to death in its nest, since the banning of wild scouser shooting. Just how many Lancastrian natterjack toads must die? How many blue gentians must whither in the meadow, all because those softies object to a few scousers being shot in the old way?

What a bloody shame.

TW

Hostie from Hell
11th May 2003, 20:33
This is presumably why you fled to Switzerland ?
I hope EZY don't do a direct flight from John Lennon International to Kloten !:cool:

Tricky Woo
12th May 2003, 06:26
Now that you point it out, Ms Hell, you're quite right.

The Swiss are rather partial to clay austrian shooting.

TW

maxman
12th May 2003, 06:26
Tricky.
Fact five.

They are much easier to shoot after they land;) ;)

tony draper
12th May 2003, 06:41
I usta manufacture solid lead 12 bore rifled slugs for me shooter, take the shot out the cartridge and stick the slug in, go right thru a tree they would,kicked like a mule though, yer get wrong for doin thay kind of thing nowadays.
Yers, no fun like that to be had by a young lad nowadays, you had to be careful though,take yer eye out one of them slug would.

terryJones
12th May 2003, 08:26
I recall the old AlphMax Drapes. Dads 12bore would take the 2.75" long ones.
It was like using anti arcraft guns on pigeons...
Your tale of the solid slug reminds me of a stupid (in retrospect) trick I did once with my 16 bore (The blue cartridges). I read that a candle could be driven into a plank if you whittled it down and put it into a case. I duely poured out the shot, pared down the candle, and left a six inch diamerter mess of wax on the plank:\

TJ

Keef
12th May 2003, 09:44
I was a wimp (still am) - I used Hymax cos the chambers in the trusty 12-bores were all 2½ inch and Alphamax were 2¾ inch.

Tried cutting round the cartridge with a craft knife once - the whole lump went up the barrel as one and made a very large hole in the "target" tree. Frightened me - never did that again.

Don't shoot clay pigeons, though. Not fired a .22 or a .303 in a very long time, either.

Ozzy
12th May 2003, 09:57
Draper Shot many a woodie in me time blimey mate, if you did that 'ere, they'd lock you up! Not nice to go shooting off the tip of someone's pecker.

In any case, I have had my days of popping the old clay pigeons. Enjoyed it, had a, err, blast so to speak. But, did you find it difficult to put the remaining bits back together for the pigeon pie afterwards??

Ozzy

Paterbrat
12th May 2003, 16:05
Loved clays but when home in Kenya used to go after yellow neck and Guinea fowl down near Kajiado in one of the hunting blocks. Since there was always the chance of disturbing the local felines, carnivorous, large, we used to always carry a few SSG into our other pocket. Whilst following a flock and generaly rushing round and getting excited,once popped a couple of those in by mistake, result was more like mince for shepherds pie.

The other cartridge for nocturnal visitors was a preparation of rock salt and chili powder, non lethal but smarts. Can't help feeling Mr Martin would have been slightly better off with a couple of those.

Blacksheep
12th May 2003, 16:30
One finds clay pigeons relatively easy to pluck, but, they taste terrible and make a proper mess of one's teeth. We tended to eat rabbits - they're easier to hit, taste better, and one can make warm articles of clothing from the skins. In fact one can use them to train the whippets and save the ammunition at the same time. Thats why we don't hear of clay rabbits I suppose...

As to wild scouse shooting, thats cruel. Shooting living things should be reserved solely for vermin. Such as macums... :hmm:

*************************
Through difficulties to the cinema

Biggles Flies Undone
12th May 2003, 18:05
All this talk of Alphamax brings back some very happy memories of days spent in hedgerows while trying to thin out the local woody population. My first shotgun was (very) second hand and purchased from a retired wildfowler and, thus, chambered up to 3" - all my (far richer) shooting pals with their posh AYA and Brownings could only look on in anguish when the birds were staying high and their puny little Grand Prix cartridges had to give best to the boom of an Alphamax :D

tony draper
12th May 2003, 18:24
Mate of mine got a brand new 12 bore falling block single for christmas, not wanting to be left out of our previous mentioned ballistic experiments, he replaced the shot with steel ball bearings, he inadvertently discovered a brand new and very fast way of rifling a gun barrel, his dad was pleased.
:rolleyes:

HugMonster
12th May 2003, 18:37
What's the difference between a clay pigeon and a wood pigeon? After all, they're both made from environmentally renewable resources - clay is probably easier to manufacture, since a wooden one would probably have to be turned on a lathe... :confused:

Tricky Woo
12th May 2003, 19:46
The trouble is that those clays are such a bloody stupid shape.

Consider the facts, folks: not many wild pigeons are actually shaped like a disk. So, it stands to reason that disk-shaped clays're a poor substitute for a real-life pigeon. Make 'em pigeon-shaped, and the problem goes away. One day, all that clay pigeon shooting could save yer life:

Person A: "Watch out! Here comes a vampire pigeon! Quick, shoot it, before it goes fer yer throat!"

Person B: "What pigeon? I can only see that bird-shaped thing... is there a disk-shaped blood-sucking pigeon behind it? Aarrgghhhhhhhhh!!!!!"

Person A: "The horror! The horror!"

See? In that example, a human life was needlessly thrown away.

Sooooo, why make 'em disk-shaped? Why not pigeon-shaped? Why not some novelty shapes to liven the shooting up a bit? Say kitten-shaped, or baby bunny-shaped, or, even better, puppy-shaped?

Ok, who out there believes that rabid kittens and puppies are any less of a threat than a vampire pigeon? And what about ninja baby bunnies?

TW

tony draper
12th May 2003, 19:56
Ah Mr Woo, the original clay pigeons were not clay, they were glass balls stuffed with feathers, a much more satifying target to blatt one suspects.
In a simular vein, one did have a rather disturbed pal who's hobby was filling action men dolls with tomato sauce and then shooting at them with his Diana 25.
He went far in the RAF that lad did.

criticalmass
12th May 2003, 22:28
Ice Pigeons!

Same shape as clays but made of ice for environmental considerations. Can be made with coloured dye if required. Non-coloured ones after use can be retrieved and used as ice for fortifying drinks after each round of "Down The Line" or whatever discipline you shoot.

I can see it all now... the gentle thump of the Browning D4 with a 24gm load at 1350fps... PULL! (ice-pigeon flies out...shtogun swings, tracks target, finger slaps trigger...ice pigeon explodes) Char Wallah! Bring me some of that bird for me burra peg! There's a good chap. ;)

Tricky Woo
13th May 2003, 00:32
Not a bad idea, although retriever dogs might get a bit confused when their catch melts in their mouths.

Hang on... do retrievers actually retrieve any more? What exactly do they retrieve? In the good old days, a typical scouser-hunt would keep those noble dogs busy for hours and hours. Many a downed scouser would be fetched from the woods, with nary a mark on the flank to show where the dog's soft mouth had been.

What about pointers? Not much cop in a pointer curling one paw underneath its body, while its snout points at a tray of clay pigeons, is there? Even the most dedicated of dog owners would be unlikely to be impressed by that feat.

There's a whole paraphernalia of hunting lore being lost as I type these words...

What about those small breeds of dogs, carefully chosen and mated through the ages, to ensure that they could descend underground, and catch and extract a welsh miner, deep from his sandy burrow? Bloody ferocious, welsh miners, especially during mating season, so jack russels, and the like, had to be especially careful, or the hunter would become the hunted! But alas, the welsh miner is almost extinct, and I suppose, welsh miner hunting is another proud tradition whose time has passed.

Then there's hairy jock coursing. Yes, we've all now been brainwashed by those brutal home movies of hairy jock coursing. We've all seen them, where a single hairy jock has been released, and hunted down by a pack of hairy jock coursing dogs. Yes, hairy jock coursing fans all look a bit furtive, but so would you, if your life's passion had been deemed illegal, simply to protect the tender sensibilities of those southern city folk. But, blow me, those hairy jocks really can run like stink! And just consider, two out of five hairy jocks actually escape the dogs altogether!

Yet another traditional hunting sport that has been driven into obscurity and illegality.

TW

Ozzy
13th May 2003, 03:50
How about clay kitten shooting (http://www.richsalter.net/flash_scrapbook_items/04_claykittenshooting/04_claykittenshooting.html) as an alternative

Ozzy

mad_jock
13th May 2003, 04:01
Oooo. Someone is going to bite with that one Ozzy

Whats your high score?

I manage 30

MJ

Tricky Woo
13th May 2003, 04:42
Hmm, the best I managed was 40%.

What a marvellous game.

TW

mad_jock
13th May 2003, 04:55
74 failed on the 70% round.

Mouse hand is getting sore now

MJ

LordGrumpy
13th May 2003, 06:31
Clay pidgeon shooting.
Time wasting noisy and not much good for the cardiovascular exercise programme. With all that shot it only takes one to hit the target. Hardly much of a game to it, needs the mind of an idiot looking for a village to make his home. Certainly not environmentally polite.
Ppruners, I'd defy you to trump up a finer pest control, than cabbage white butterfly swatting with badminton rackets. It is the sport of kings and one to have a bet on. Less destructive than the holy hand grenade of Antioch

One has to be nimble, agile on feet, that dance amongst the rows, so as not to smash yer prized veg.
The eye has to stay tuned to the sky, able adjust between the glare and the dark of the earth. The wrist poised to act without gun ho, one may even clear up the kills and not leave them on the ground.

The best of us have a racket in each hand........

tony draper
13th May 2003, 06:46
I understand that if you just wound a Cabbage White you are duty bound under the hunters code, to follow it into the bush if necessary and finish it off.
Not the safest thing for a young lad to do, nothing nastier than a wounded Cabbage White.

Keef
13th May 2003, 08:45
I remember when I went to live in Germany in the 70s, and asked if I could get a "reciprocal" licence to use my 12-bores over there. The officials were very positive (keen shooting men, even invited me out with them), BUT

I'd have to pass the written exam first. This involved recognition of protected and endangered species - you can't shoot the pheasant if there's a lesser grungled bladderwort behind it, cos that's a protected plant.

Decided not to bother. Wasn't that good on German botanical names.

Haven't fired a 12-bore from that day to this. Still got them, though (and the permit to go with them).

criticalmass
13th May 2003, 20:40
Another fine sport is ant sniping. It requires one match-grade air-rifle, one ant-hill and a distance of between ten and twenty yards between the two.

Shooting can be done from the sitting or prone positions, the use of sandbags or benchrest-style rifle support bags is permitted, even encouraged. Recoilless match-grade rifles allow precise placement of shot. An old Feinwerkbau 300S or Diana Model 75, now well past their prime, may be given a new lease of life by employment in this useful role.

The ant-sniper may use a 'scope on the air-rifle, or the match sights may be used. Scopes should be parallax adjustable to a minimum of 10 yards. As foresight inserts for ant-sniping are not yet available I recommend the use of a post rather than the globe insert(s) used for standard air-rifle targets.

Selection of a dry ant-hill allows fall of shot to be observed. A good spotting 'scope is useful for observing the busiest areas of the ant-hill as well. Selection of target ants is at the whim of the sniper.

Ensure there is a safe background in case pellets ricochet or deflect unpredictably from the target area. No removal of ant-carcasses is required as these tidy insects will remove their dead entirely of their own volition.

Endless hours of shooting fun await the budding ant-sniper. However, if sniping at Brazilian Fire-Ants, be sure to have a safe path for withdrawal to the rear in case their forward scouts locate your sniping hide. The bite of these critters is one of the less welcome tactile stimulations a human being can experience.

tony draper
13th May 2003, 21:10
I have a Feinwerkbau 300s hanging on me wall as we speak,great piece of German engineering.
I usta do something similar put I prefered just to shoot the antenna off the little feckers an freighten them, they soon grow new ones.
;)

Foss
13th May 2003, 21:19
Take a shotgun cartridge... take out the shot, push the cartridge through a piece of cardboard so that the brass end is showing, then draw a circle round it.
Withdraw to 40 yards at start sniping with a .22 air rifle.
plink
plink
CABOOM

'Ithink you hit it"

solid slugs are excellent too, but in NI, they are definately under-the-counter munitions. Only really needed for counter insurgency emergencys or civil unrest.

:}

Capn Notarious
14th May 2003, 06:41
I'm told that one of these in trained hands can do serious harm.
Wasn't William Tell a Swiss.
Where does Woo lurk
Should we be worrying if he returns to Mnchstr.
Was it a diversionary tactic : his opening gambit about clay pigeon shooting.
Are we going to be safe in the new South of England Football Stadium at Wembley. There is a film about such an event.
Crossbow, was at one time the fastest catamaran and which country now holds The America's Cup.......

Mr Draper please continue.

tony draper
14th May 2003, 07:04
Yer Swiss being a bunch of wooses, only slay fruit with their crossbows.
:rolleyes:

criticalmass
14th May 2003, 08:04
The Swiss Apple (Pommus Helveticus) is a fearsome and short-tempered beast, and was first documented by Roman Legionaires prior to Julius Caesar's 54BC conquest of Britain.

Armed with their spears (Pilum) and short swords (Gladius), the Roman soldiers of necessity had to fight the Swiss Apple at close quarters, and many were gored or suffered the painful injuries inflicted when the apple ejected pips at very high velocity. Hence the expression "pipped at the post", the post, of course, being the place where the guard was maintaining his vigil. (A vigil was usually maintained by rubbing salted pig-fat into the leather portions whilst polishing the ornamental bronze sections with a paste of powdered calcite or salt in olive oil. Soldiers nicknamed this "Bronzo".)

Naturally, there were especially dangerous areas where the wise did not approach. An apple orchard in Switzerland could be lethal if the apples were unduly disturbed, especially in the reproductive season. An occasional "rogue" apple would roll its way surreptitiously into an encampment where it would then ambush some poor soldier, preferring the drunken ones prevalent towards the end of the night.

The resourceful tribes of Switzerland, and most notably the Helvetii themselves, developed weaponry to put distance between themselves and the dreaded apples when combat ensued. The longbow was too large for use in the forested areas, so a shortened and stiffer bow was developed, being held horizontally and often steadied against the trunk of a fir-tree.

One resourceful Helvetii tribesman decided to push his bow through a knothole in a fallen limb, the extra mechanical advantage allowing him to pull the bowstring much more easily. This was the ancestor of the Swiss crossbow. Mechanical refinements and the development of new materials has led to the present-day refinement of this useful and powerful weapon.

Apples themselves have been tamed and domesticated to the point now where they are regarded as a harmless fruit. However, some people still recognise the potential danger of apples, and, during a recent glut of apples on the market in Australia, Tasmanian apple orchardists were observed shooting their apple-trees which had lost all their commercial value. ;)

Tricky Woo
14th May 2003, 15:50
Nice finger-work, Mr criticalmass, you're really getting into the rhythm of this thread.

Yes, tis true: the fearsome Swiss apple has been on the register of endangered Swiss species for decades. The decline is mainly due to the introduction of various alien species which have taken rather a fancy to Swiss apples. Even now, dead Swiss apples cores are occasionally found, with the unmistakable bite-marks of the feral tourist. One shudders to imagine the agony of such a demise.

But all hope is not lost: The Swiss had to learn the hard way the lesson against introducing foreign species into their notoriously delicate habitat. Those mars bars may look cute, in their black and gold wrappers, but intense competition nearly did for the toblerone altogether! Nowadays, the Swiss shoot mars bars on sight, and toblerones are again numerous enough to breed with little or no human intervention.

A more serious concern is the recent decline of the Zurich Lake dolphin: numbers have fallen to an all time low. Must that noble beast follow the same sorry fate as the Geneva Lake humpfin whale? Still, who are we to deny hungry Swiss mountain children their only hope of sustenance? Living conditions in the average ski-resort during the summer months are amongst the harshest known: ski-instructors somehow try to scratch out a living, but as one can imagine, subsistence farming is extremely difficult whilst wearing skis, and nigh on impossible with a snowboard.

Another Swiss concern is actually the very opposite of an endangered species. Since cannibalism was banned, in 1982, the numbers of wild Austrians have reached epidemic proportions. The Swiss parliament is seriously considering culling, although it's rightly fearful of the social consequences: animal rights activists are still using the unfortunate baby koala bear culling episode as highly effective propoganda, even though the Australian government stopped the practice ten years ago!

Probably a more socially acceptable solution would be a small-scale return to licenced hunting, perhaps with strictly enforced controls and quotas. Nobody wants to see a return of the old factory ships, of course, but perhaps a small fleet of trawlers, painted in traditional Swiss fishing boat colours. However, the lessons of the past must be put into practice: net sizes must be sufficiently large for a respectable breeding population of Austrians to escape out of the holes. And whatever the solution, the Austria Wildlife Reserve must remain inviolate!

TW

Bern Oulli
15th May 2003, 04:54
Mr Woo, your mention of the toblerone and its timely recovery from the predations of the mars bar reminded me of a worrying trend I have noticed of late. That is the appearance of white toblerones!

Are these a natural mutation, an albino of the species perhaps? I note that they are few in number and tend to keep themselves to themselves, usually in the darker corners of airport duty free shops. It worries me that I am seeing signs of the emergence of a sort of toblerone apartheid, or is the segregation for health reasons?

Damn expensive little fellas though. Makes you think twice about having a pet doesn't it?

Tricky Woo
15th May 2003, 14:01
I suppose one last digression is in order, before we return to traditional British blood sports...

Before we get all self-congratulatory about the return of the toblerone from the brink of extinction, consider the following: toblerones were one prolific throughout Europe and the British Isles. Yes, the common brown toblerone seems to havefully stabilised, but, as Mr Bern Oulli has pointed out, when one attempts to rebuild a full population out of just a few examples, then the gene pool becomes somewhat restricted, and mutations can, and sadly do, occur.

The white toblerone is bad enough, but at least its genes are consistent enough for it to breed successfully in the wild, or at least scratch a living from the dustbins of inner cities. Whether the lack of meaningful camouflage will doom the white toblerone, is yet to be determined. I suppose now that mars bars are being suppressed, there is only one natural predator to worry about. Man! I have seen with my own eyes the skins of white toblerones outside of schools and colleges. It seems that the youth has taken rather a liking to white toblerones. One can only hope that the course of fashion will change soon enough.

But what about the other toblerone genetic freaks? Who was not sickened by the pictures of four and five sided toblerones. Thankfully, those poor creatures died a merciful death, but this is just the tip of the iceberg, IMHO.

We shall see.

TW

Tricky Woo
16th May 2003, 04:01
Anyone want to hear my thoughts on yorkshire farmer poaching?

TW

tony draper
16th May 2003, 04:57
Not really, would be interested to hear if you Have managed to lay your mancunian mitts on any maps to hidden gold yet, one hears that your place is awash with it.

Tricky Woo
16th May 2003, 23:16
Them Swiss gnomes do indeed have loads and loads of gold hidden in their nuclear bunkers.

Yer can tell they're real gold bullion, 'cos they're hallmarked with small swastikas.

TW

Ozzy
16th May 2003, 23:26
Well, when it comes to toblerone, to quote a certain comedian, "You can't eat a fcuking toblerone without hurting yourself." I'll leave the triangular choccy for those with mouths of steel.

TW, I'm dying to find out about Yorkshire farmer poaching. How long does one leave said farmer in the poaching liquid? Do you use white wine and herbs (or 'erbs, as they say over 'ere) or just some salt water.....

Ozzy

Tricky Woo
17th May 2003, 00:21
Ozzy,

Certain subjects should be immune to such mockery. I'm well aware that this is Jet Blast, but the plight of the yorkshire farmer is not fit for amusement. Sorry, but I don't find your comments at all funny.

When I see horrific photographs of carcasses of yorkshire farmers, blackened by feeding flies, lying in the fields of Yorkshire, all with their tusks hacked off, I feel sickened by man's treatment of God's creatures. One would have thought that the UN sponsored banning of the sale of yorkshire farmer ivory would have perhaps slowed down this practice, but no.

The illegal, (and unofficially condoned), sale of ivory trinkets continues, usually to 'collectors' who insist that their ivory is decades old, and predates the ban.

So, the trade continues, while tourists return to their countries with nice 'souveniers', uncaring that their pretty ivory 'ornament' is yet another contribution to the final demise of the yorkshire farmer.

Bloody sickening.

Worse still, the poachers themselves probably have little or no hope of generating wealth in any other way. Let's face it: Yorkshire is a third world country, with little or no hope of improving its presence on the world market. Perhaps, if the West would prepared to open its markets to the agricultural produce of Yorkshire, no matter how poor in quality, then their economy could be somehow revitalised, and the poaching of yorkshire farmers would seem less lucrative?

A hopeless wish, but a wish, nevertheless.

Unfortunately, the related practice of poaching brummies is even more lucrative. The Chinese continue to defy the world by paying outrageous sums of money for ground up brummie car worker horns, in spite of the fact that the powder has been proven not to solve impotence. If it were so, then the famed Midlander inability to maintain an erection could have been solved decades ago!

Madness.

TW

Ozzy
17th May 2003, 00:29
TW,

I am so sorry I insulted the plight of the Yorkshire farmer; please let it be known we have artificial yorkshire ivory in the Osbourne household, none of that real rubbish.

As for the 97% lean brummie worker, I actually toured the Range Rover plant in the 80s and saw the first ever Discovery before it were released to the public. Some wassock came up to me and asked for identification!!!! Dickbert. Cool at the time tho'

Ozzy

HugMonster
17th May 2003, 00:33
"Yes, Sir Douglas, it was a very vicious sharpened mango, wasn't it?"

Tricky Woo
17th May 2003, 00:43
Hmm, apology accepted.

Anyway, yer had your own altercation with wildlife, didn't you? Bloody impressed Bat Man had the presence of mind to bite your tongue, first. Dunno if I'd have thought of that.

"Holy Smoke, Bat Man, that heavy rocker wants to bite your head off!"

BIFF! BASH! BITE! "AARRGGHHH!!!"

"Quick, Robin, we must return to the Bat Cave before the daft git tries it on again!"

"Holy Kazaam, Bat Man, did you really drink his blood?"

"Yesh I did, Robin, so you'd better drive the Batmobile, 'cos I'm now pished as a fart. (hic)"

TW

Ozzy
17th May 2003, 01:43
They told me it were made of rubber!:(
Ozzy

Tricky Woo
23rd May 2003, 23:12
Rubber bats don't have real fur all over 'em, yer daft Brum sod.

TW

Tricky Woo
27th May 2003, 06:27
Watched a number of pigeons, in a Zürich square today, being fed by a small Swiss brat. He's probably called Robinson, cos he looked like he was from a Swiss family.

I noticed that the Swiss have a better class of pigeon than the filthy flying gutter rats that crap all over British cities.

What d'yer reckon? Them Swiss wash their pigeons on a Sunday moring? Or are Brit pigeons actually born with oil and puddle water plumage?

TW