This psychometric farse!!!

[flyboy11]

You can do all the licences and get a 757 type rating, clock up 4000 hours on type.

But when you come to leave your airline or it goes bust nobody else wants you.

Why? Because they all have these psychometric farse tests- with these stupid middle class women psychologists who know jack **** about anything and have spent the last fecking 10 years doing an open university course in animal psychology. What a complete farse this industry is! No other 'professional' takes this. You don't see doctors, lawyers etc having these **** psychometric tests thrown in their faces every time they go to a new hospital. Once your trained that is it.

While I'm here I want to clear some things up.

Do not embark on a aviation career unless you are sponsored with BA or the RAF. Get a good job to pay for your weekend flying- keep it as a hobby. If you cant pass the trainee tests- doubtful you would make it to an airline!

This JAA is just a farse- pilots and for that matter the CAA don't know whether they are coming or going! Thankyou Europe!

The JAA has made things 10 times worse. Pilots have NEVER HAD IT SO BAD!

Finally there is NO pilot shortage whatsoever!

[TomPierce]

Take it you don't like psychometric testing then? Yep, I agree it's a farse, oh sorry, farce! :)

[HARRY GREYHOUND]

flyboy11 i couldn't agree more. I have gained all my qualifications through self improver route, self financed B737 rating, now have 1600 hrs on type all low cost operators most demanding flying.You would think this experience highly valuable, WRONG!have now been out of work for three months and failed three psychometric assessments.Easyjet did give me feedback on my assessment the guy said i fell into the wrong group on my personality profile and to quote"you are too caring to be a pilot you would make a good vet" can you believe that.I can do the job i have done the job very well for three years with no accident or incident yet i have to get pass these HR twits at the first stage.As i have said before the pilot shortage is just a myth.Good luck with your efforts your not alone. H :mad:

[QNH1013]

I agree, apparantly it's the phycologists in the interview stages that can make or break your career no matter how your performances were on the other stages ie board interview, sim check. I guess it's a case of so many people going for the same job, the filtering out process used by the airlines is getting too much. You so much as look at the phycologist in the wrong way or say somethign he doesn't like or something he can twist and turn inside out and make it seem you're nuts and you're history. :confused:

[flyboy11]

Harry,

A tip for easyjet. Perhaps if you went in carrying a Rugby ball and covered in mud it may impress the ****** ***** psychologist. I know this has worked in one particular case! You have to be very careful when you turn up for these psychometrics there are psychologists everywhere. If they see you drive a big car they probably think you have a small dick and hence a rather large grip. i.e. not someone they want flying aeroplanes! If you are seen eating fish they may think you are a womaniser etc. It all stinks!!!

I don't care what your problems with easyJet's psychologists are, if you want to post on this board keep your language within the bounds of acceptability. Yours is not.
Scroggs

[ 03 September 2001: Message edited by: scroggs ]

[fireflybob]

How I agree - I have for a long time now thought that far too much credence is being put on this psychometric tests, etc.

The sad thing is that we are missing out on some really good people who would be first class pilots and employees with the companies.

My theory is that management are delegating the selection process to this system so they can blame somebody else when it all goes wrong!

Guess who the best people are to select pilots? Surely it does not take rocket science to come up with the facts that pilots are the best people to make this decision!!

By all means put people through all this rubbish if you like but Chief Pilots/Training Managers should use their gut instincts more to judge who is suitable.

You are right - this over reliance on pyscho screening is a farce and also a tragedy.

[Rob 747]

Well i also agree! :mad:

Ive only ever taken them at school and for other jobss.
What are the questions like for aviation?

Ive been told the only way to get round this step is to BLAGG it!!!!!

Tell them what they want to hear and not what you feel.

Im always anxious as hell about things in life, but when im with my instructor he tells me i am not an extrovert nor am i an introvert. Im level headed and cope well in bad times!?!? :D

BOLLOX :D

Im anxious person number 1!!!


The morale is- Hide your anxiety.

[RVR800]

The definition of a good psychometric test is one that the chief pilot does well in.

If he fails then its obviously a complete WOFT (waste of time) and money

Its a good money making scam for the shrinks and provides extra work for HR staff and whittles down the numbers.

You can improve your scores by practice - so they have IMHO opinion limited value although
It suppose its shows motivation to hone ones
skills prior to the assessment.

[perbs_gba]

Anybody knows what they throw at you on the Emirates interview, these days ???
Have read the article in "wannabes", due in 2 weeks, grateful for any help.
Pervertigo

[G SXTY]

Just a thought flyboy, but maybe your sexist and aggressive attitude, inability to spell, and obsession with willies is causing psychometric testers to confuse you with Ronchonner. . . Perish the thought. :rolleyes:

[Lucifer]

You should give psychologists a bit more credit: many have worked a great deal for a degree and doctorate in a demanding and academic field which has produced many invaluable results in recent years, especially in the study of group behaviour.

Doctors and lawyers have been subject to similar rigourous testing, even more so with the problem based learning in medical schools etc., and the severe competition in getting training contracts for solicitor and lawyers' firms.

In all fairness, those who have done their training by paying their own way have often not been through a selection procedure to date, and in some cases anyone with the money can with some ability achieve full type rating etc self sponsored, but be the wrong profile for airlines (no offence intended). Perhaps a more relaxed and persevering attitude to failure is required to pass these? I do not know your circumstances etc, but if sleazyJet want very outgoing rugby people and that is the image they wish to portray from the flightdeck, you cannot blame the psycologists or the psycometric testing, but the profile which the company require.

This is an industry with a great deal of competition: fultering out is necessary and should be expected.

PS: if you are trying to blag them, this is where you may be failing as they will detect inconsistencies.

[ 03 September 2001: Message edited by: Lucifer ]

[QNH 1013]

I accept that psychologists have done some valuable work on human factors in aviation as anyone who has taken the HPL exam should recognise, but as a scientist, I worry when they start believing in psychometric testing.
The psychometric profiles I have seen read more like a horoscope than anything else.
At least (as far as I know) the airline industry in the UK doesn't use graphology (handwriting analysis) in selection. This is big business in France with some large companies using handwriting "experts" to filter applications for senior positions.
Please remember that the competition starts when you read the rules, so if you know that you are going to have to take a psychometric test you had better go and read some books on how to do well at psychometric tests.
My final advice for today.... The preparation you do for a job interview is paid at the best hourly rate you will ever earn. Remember that and the preparation will be a lot easier.
Good Luck !

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Psychometrics break down into 2 branches and you would be well advised to remember this:

a) Hard - hand-eye coordination, response time, speed/time/distance computation, spatial awareness/recognition, literacy & comprehension, memory

b) Soft - leadership/followship, passivity/aggresssion, sociobility, socio-economic class, maturity, conformity/indvidualism

Most pilots and wannabe pilots have no problem with a) and a deep mistrust of b).

Well fine.

I can understand that. That used to be my inclination too. Most of what makes people want to be, or take pride in being a pilot in connected with a).

Only then I started studying pilot selection techniques as part of my degree... To summarise:

In the last 25 years there has been a growing realisation in commercial aviation that b) is as just as important as a). Hence CRM and all its connotations and derivations.

So when you are tempted to slag Psychometrics remember that they encompass both a) AND b).

I have lost jobs with BA *twice* because of psychologists at interview and b) considerations... but I still believe the evidence the hypothesis and the lab results I have read...

Good luck,


WWW - BSc Psychology (Hons) Keele Uni.

[PA38]

I don't have a 737 type rating, or 2000hrs TT including jet's....
But I have taken and passed a psycometric test, but that donsn't make me a better person. Just like having a log book that reads like war and peace does!!!!! :D

[ScottishBurd]

Are there any airlines that would just give you a job (with ATPL) without going through all that c**p?

[Nearly Man]

With regards to Trick Cyclists and their tests......do you think they'd mind if I brought along my cutlass and shield?

BTEC Diploma in Art & Design, Chelsea

[RVR800]

Most large organisations employ tests like these now.

They are often used to filter out rather than
select in candidates.

In a previous company we had Programmers
with the right experience wanting to join
-but they could not pass the aptitude tests

Result: we hired in none experienced staff
and trained them in-house - all because they could pass the aptitude tests.

This is common nowadays - Crazy !
Its OK if you can pass them - I did OK
They are therefore an extremely good measure!
:D :D :D :D

[Flypuppy]

Nearly Man,
You would cheat, that 6 foot rabbit that follows you everywhere would give you all the answers. :eek:

Remember kids, psychometric tests should not be attempted unless supervised by an adult.

Flypuppy: Cycling Proficency Test Oxgang Primary School

[mechantloup]

I agree with you, these tests suck!
it's just to limit the number of applicants.
It cost less to make you pass a written test than to run a simulator.
Take exemple of the USA: no test at all, it's just a basic interview with the HR and some technical question about jeppesen charts and regualtion, a simulator test (very easy) and you have the job!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

If these tests 'suck' then why does every military in the world use them?

Why do all the airline sponsorships use them?

Why is it that I can show you a direct correlation between the average grades of Course A - those that have passed an airline psychometric assessment; and Course B - who have not? That correlation being that those who have passed the tests get higher grades.

Same school, same instructors, syllabus and time period.

Deal in probabalities and not absolutes and you'll discover psychometrics to be a useful tool PARTICULARLY in aviation - the sphere for which they were first invented and deployed...

Cheers,

WWW

[kangy]

nice to know you hold these tests with high regard WWW!

[mechantloup]

These tests suck, but there are different tests, there is the one where you have to count dominos and the one where your employers can "evaluate" your personality.
The first one is an insult to any pilot.If I can fly instrument I can certainly count stupid dominos.If I can pass a check ride or a written tests, I can tell you that the next number after 2,4,8,? is 16!
and for these kind of tests, you can buy books and train your self to reach a good score, so what's the point?Answer: ELIMINATION.

[scroggs]

The fact is that most airlines employ these tests in some from or other. Your opinions of them are irrelevant. If you want a job, you will have to undertake these tests. For some types of test (verbal reasoning, maths) there are ways of practising, for others (most of the psychobabble ones) there aren't. Either put up and shut, up or find another line of work. You aren't going to change this!

[schuler_tuned]

www, just a thought; assuming you passed a trick cyclist test for your current position, that gives you a 33% pass rate.
did you learn anything from the first 2, was the third a fluke, or the initial 2 an "off" day in terms of your own personal psychological asessment?
as for myself,i've passed a few, and failed one, without any idea why, but i haven't studied psychology, all be it hpl.
it just seems to me that with something that it is held with so much importance the pass rate should be higher than 33%, simply due to the fact that it purports to be a measure of intringent personality.
yes we all have to pass them, and yes it weeds out the totally strange,anything other is just weeding by numbers.
there again i always prefered to be personnel rather than a human resource.....

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

No I passed the actual psychometric elements of the BA CEP/TPS - it was the psychologist that did for me both times :)

If you could only see the maths and the research behind many of the pilot selection tests then you would be convinced.

Any results dervied from studies have to follow proper scientific practice of lab report and peer evaluation. Any result must stand up to standard statistical analysis. Generally correlations of .82 or better are required.

Trainee pilots seem to hold test pilots in awe and pilot tests in contempt. An ignorance of the work of both is to blame.

Cheers,

WWW