Getting out

[The Flymo]

I've been to war, am now seeing my pension disappearing, just received a measly 3.2% payrise and have to deal with the firemans strike-I'm off.

What do I need to do to get an ATPL and leave the service. I have 1000hrs p1, 100hrs night.

[simon_says]

Short term advice is not to knee jerk yourself out of the service just yet. Are you fixed or Rotary?

[BEagle]

Thanks, MJ! Herewith more info:

Sorry to hear that you're feeling that way.

I am not convinced that the pension will 'disappear'; the powers-that-be know very well that the availability and monetary worth of the pension post-IPP are hugely influential in persuading folk to stay until their Immediate Pension Point at least. But I quite understand your concern at the doubt over what will happen in the future; indeed, it influenced me to leave.

Regarding an ATPL, with the hours you claim, I can't answer your question fully. To benefit from the full military accreditation rights, you need to have:

1. Passed a recognised ME OCU course; (BAe 125/146, C17, Hercules, Nimrod, Sentry, TriStar or VC10)

2. A minimum of 2000 hours flying experience on military aircraft including at least 1500 P1C (of which 500 can be co-pilot P1 time) is on recognised ME aeroplanes (Andover, BAC1-11, BAe125/146, C17, Canberra, Dominie, Hercules, Islander, Jetstream, Nimrod, PA31, Sentry, TriStar or VC10). Nimrod First Pilot time counts as P1C time for this purpose. You must also have had experience on one of these ac types in the 5 years before licence application.

If you've got all these hours, all you'll need to do is to get a Class 1 medical, pass Air Law at ATPL level and have your next IR observed by a CAA IRE. Fill out the form, pay the dosh and wait for the little green book.

If you have 2000 hours' experience on non-ME aircraft, the whole accreditation process is slightly more complicated as there are 'bridging course' routes to a CPL with ATPL knowledge - and you'll have to do 5 exams.

If your total experience is less than 2000 hours, things aren't quite so peachy. To obtain an ATPL you'll need the Class 1 medical, 500 hours flying experience on multi-pilot aeroplanes (that doesn't mean as a QFI on T-bird FJs!) and to pass an IR on a multi-pilot militrary aeroplane. BUT you'll have to pass all 14 JAR-FCL ATPL(A) exams, not just Air Law. You'll also need to be in current flying practice when you apply for the licence.

If your flying has not been on ME aeroplanes, you cannot obtain an ATPL immediately - but neither can graduates from airline training schools until they've got the 500 hours multi-pilot time under their belts. You can, however, go for a CPL(A)/IR with ATPL knowledge credit (by passing all those exams) but you must keep your IR current or the credit will lapse 7 years after the date of the last civil IR revalidation.

Full details are either in the CAA's LASORS publication (price £10 and good value for all the gen. it contains) or at http://www.tgda.gov.uk/CAA_Accreditation/CAAAccreditation.htm . Good luck - but I hope that you decide to stay to amass the 2000 TT etc accreditation rights.


PS - If you're a RW pilot, cross-accreditation to FW isn't so generous because there is no JAR-FCL process with which the Service can align. If that's your case, the only route is probably:

1. PPL
2. Modular CPL whilst doing the ATPL(A) exams.
3. Add an IR to your CPL(A) within 36 months of passing the last exam in order to preserve your ATPL theory credits.
4. MCC course (you may alreday be exempt this)
5. Apply for job - good luck, mate!

[The Flymo]

Thanks BEagle, I'll probably stick around to get the 2000hrs. Just wanted to get a flavour for what is in store.

Good luck in your future career!

[BEagle]

Glad to have been of assistance. Are you a NImrod mate up at Ice Station Kilo?

[jayteeto]

Think very carefully before going, even with an ATPL. I have RW and FW ATPLs and have decided to go. With 4 months remaining, there is very very little employment out there. Everyone please stay and give me a better chance of a job. ;)

[Moondance]

The grass is not greener, the cow pats are in different places.

[Chicken Leg]

BEagle.

Perhaps you could assist me with an answer or two!

I have 3000 ish military aircraft hours of which all but about 300 are rotary. I gained my fATPL(A) via the long and expensive route before switching to FW:{

From what you have said above it would appear that now I am flying FW I can "unfreeze" my ATPL. Is this the case?

I understand that to unfreeze it through the normal channels requires 500 hours multi crew, but I won't get that on the Islander!

Thanks in advance for any help.

ps. Iknow that I could get the answers from the CAA, but surfing PPRuNe is a little more intersting than holding for half an hour on the telephone:E

[BEagle]

As far as I'm aware, you need a multi-pilot IR and 500 hours multi-pilot time to 'unfreeze' an ATPL - neither of which you'll get on the Islander.

Have a look at the AAC Islander flow chart on the tgda website or check in LASORS to be absolutely certain - but having a CPL(A)/IR with APL knowledge should be enough for a starter job in the airlines as you don't actually need a full ATPL to get going.

[TLA-HO!]

Flymo

My thoughts for what they're worth:


1. If you're going to leave because you've achieved everything you wanted to in the military, want family stability and quality home time, then go for it.

2. If you're leaving just because you're a bit fed up, then don't bother; compared to military flying it's the most boring job known to man. If I hadn't applied the criteria at 1 above, I'd be slitting my wrists!

Good luck

:bored:

[sarboy w****r]

I believe (off the top of my head) for RW pilots:

2000 hrs, of which at least 1500 P1
Civ IR and possibly MCC course
Some of the JAR exams

will give you an ATPL(H).

I can get the exact details later if you want.

[PUP]

Re jobs coming up outside, if none of the big holiday companies fail this summer/autumn (MyTravel are probably okay now but watch out for TUI [Brittania's parent]) and 'Dubya' doesn't fancy any more crusades, I think you'll find that quite a few airlines will be recruiting as they are getting v short of pilots, due minimal recruitment by the UK charter airlines since 9/11, allied to the normal natural retirement/leaving rate. There's also a lot less civvy 'self-improvers',509ers etc in the system now, since 9/11.

JayTeeTo, good luck!

[jayteeto]

:ok: Shhhhhh! Please don't tell anyone things like that until I get a job!! :ok:

[I. M. Esperto]

I'd say getting out now would be a mistake. good airline jobs are dissapearing at an alarming rate.