Self funded training, Jerez or Oxford

[micheal]

Has anyone suudied at BAe in Jerez?
Where's best to study the UK or Spain?
Which of the schools offer the best service?

[Wor]

Hi MMG

Can't say 4 sure where is the best but am off to Jerez on 26th Sept for training so can give you a 1 sided oppinion then if you like Ha HA HA.

Wor

[bottle2throttle]

OXFORD :cool:

[window-seat]

self-funded?..........fancy being a 'third rate citizen, fancy forking out for afew extra months food and accom, waiting for aircraft/instructors and the weather?

If so, Oxford is for you! :D

[Tino]

Try Airmed International Pilot School.
They run Integrated ATPL courses for under 40k and they have a good reputation.
http//www.airmed.es
I am studying there and can recommend them anytime.

ps. courses are in English.

[SuperTed]

Tino,


Have you got the exact price for the intergrated course there in £? Also are their modular courses a lot cheaper?

[cyclops]

Why do you limit yourself to OATS and Jerez? Look at the CAA JAR approved school listing.

[Send Clowns]

MMG

I'd say SFT. In my opinion, having completed a JAA frozen ATPL and CPL/IR with them and now working for the last three months as a groundschool instructor, with colleagues who have worked at each of the other major schools, SFT is the best of those that offer both ground and flight instruction. If you are self-sponsored this is even more relevant, as you are not placed below sponsored students, as we have none.

[scroggs]

Send Clowns,
I understand that you are in fact an employee of SFT. If that is the case, then your post is completely out of order. It is quite unacceptable for the employees of any school to promote their employers here in the slightky sneaky way you have here. To allow our wannabes to fairly judge the merits of your point, you must at least declare an interest at the start of your post. If you're not sure as to the acceptability of posting, run it by me or WWW first. To pose as merely a satisfied ex-student is disengenuous and misleading.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Send Clowns - we've had chats about this kind of thing before. I note with pleasure that you have taken on board my points about your profile clearly stating your employment status with SFT plus mentioning the fact in any promotional posts you make. Much like I did when working for BAE.

The balance of your posts are helpful for Wannabes - to your credit. However, please don't stray too far into blatant advertising, there's a good chap.

Cheers,

WWW

[ 06 September 2001: Message edited by: Wee Weasley Welshman ]

[ 06 September 2001: Message edited by: Wee Weasley Welshman ]

[Loony_Pilot]

I did my CAP 509 at OATS, and would wholeheartedly recommend you do the course somewhere else.

Treated like 3rd class citizen, milked for every penny, no help at all after graduation...

If I could turn the clock back I'd have picked BAe or SFT.

LP

[window-seat]

Rich Tea,

It seams to be the case, that most integrated schools may recommend the two or three top achievers (self-funded) from each class. There tends to be around 16 students per class from what I can see, so 13 or 14 of the students (the vast majority) will probably graduate, without any employment assistance.

This doesn't mean that these students have not met the grade, or are not employable! As other threads have said, No University finds jobs for it's proffesional graduates, so why should we expect the flying schools to? (would be nice if they would though) :D

I start my integrated course in a couple of weeks, and will give it my all. But, being a realist, I may well have to accept that some in my class will do better than myself, and become the chosen few. I will not be starting my course, expecting a job offer on completion, and I am prepared to join the vast numbers of 'unemployed pilots' actively seeking work! :(

Luckily, I have a well paying back-up career to fall back on whilst I sort something out. ;)

Good luck everyone. W-S

[FMC=MC2]

I did'nt do the full time course for the ATPL's I opted for the distance. I managed to do the exams in 8 months with a few re-takes. I found the staff at Oxford very good in all aspects of support and tuition. As for cost, it was in the region of £2600 including the first set of exams.

The flying modules are expensive so I plan to do the airwork between IFTA in Florida and the IR at multi-flight. So it looks like my frozen ATPL will be mine in early Jan/02. 13 months in total distance/part-time. Just another option to consider :p

[ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: FMC=MC2 ]

[Paul Hickley]

alpha 16 - How long ago are we talking about? This is not a challenge - it's a genuine query. Reply privately if you like - as long as you give me a return e-mail address. I'm [email protected]

Paul

[Send Clowns]

Scroggs,

I think I have made it clear enough that I am an employee. Additionally I only came to Wannabes this time as I had heard from a colleague ex-BAe Jerez (who knows WWW) that WWW was advertising Jerez a little strongly, and he thought some balance might be put in, especially as he did not share WWW's high opinion of Jerez.

If you want to compare my recent posts about SFT with those I made while still a student (mostly under the user name a_random, pre-January 2001) you are welcome to. I was a student until the end of May this year, and had not even considered a job with SFT until early May, so those posts only show the bias of a well-satisfied customer!

Even further I partly sought a job in the groundschool because I liked the environment here, and I like Bournemouth, so the choice to work here is part of my view of SFT as a choice for wannabes.

With all this in mind I feel that when someone is asking specifically for an opinion of schools then I am justified in posting a good report on SFT.

[Paul Hickley]

Not if you work there. We could all play this game. I could follow your last post up with something saying that I think Oxford's pretty good actually, and I should know because I work there and know all about it. Then Paul Hardie could join in with a similar plug for Cabair saying that he works there, so he can tell you from personal experience that it's pretty good as well. Then Alex Whittingham from Bristol - and so on. Can't you see that it would all get very silly?

Paul Hickley

[scroggs]

Send Clowns,
not everyone reading this board knows your history, and your post came over purely as that of a satisfied customer. You are in fact an employee, and you therefore are not able to post impartially about your organisation.
I am not against posts by representatives of any of the schools our wannabes use; usually they are useful, sensible and of great value. One thing they all share is accountability. When Paul, Alex or anyone else from these schools wishes to make a point, they do so under their own names and are at pains to make the reader understand their position, so that the reader can factor that information into their judgement of the value of the post. If you want to be taken seriously, and you don't want to upset me, do the same.

[Send Clowns]

Hey, my post said I work there! :eek:

[Send Clowns]

Paul, I don't think any of them were students at those schools. It was always a former student's perspective I gave, and one that is sometimes needed, as we have fewer than the larger, better-known schools.

Those people also have an interest in the success of the schools that I don't, as I hope very soon to leave to fly for a career!

[silverknapper]

Tino - please could you send me more info on airmed - their web site is either obstructive or i cant find any deliberate facts and figures - [email protected].
Has anyone come across an outfit at paphos in Cyprus - heard a school there was doing JAA ATPL for approx 30k- unfortunately haven't as yet found anything to substantiate this.

[QUERY]

Looking back, it seems that WWW was always backing BAe, where he worked, so why is Scroggs picking on Send Clowns and SFT?
Are moderators exempt from PPRuNe rules?
P.S. Go where you want but fair's fair.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Query, I understand your view.

Facts are:

1) I always made clear both in my Profile and in my posts that I was a BAE employee.

2) Unfortunately there were people in BAE who did not like the fact that I was so involved with PPRuNe. They sought to make my employment position uncomfortable by posting hugely negative comments about BAE. Thus placing me in a potentially difficult position. I responded to this by posting the truth, and, by banning them for their purely malicious intent. Note that since Christmas last year when I was leaving the negative Jerez threads evaporated.

3) I can stand by any advice I have given. It is still my rational view that any young man willing to be single and looking for an ab initio ATPL self sponsored is best served by BAE in Jerez. I have nothing to gain from such advice. And when I was there it was a constant headache that I ran PPRuNe Wannabes - certainly Dave Shiner nice guy though he is who is the Marketing Manager - would never ever encourage me to comment upon BAE in a positive manner.

4) Send Clowns has complied with the letter of my requests regards SFT affiliation - however, not one post of his fails to promote SFT in the most glowing terms and this is starting to sound a little sychophantic.

5) Your input is - as always - welcome.

Kindest Regards,

WWW

[QUERY]

Thanks for that, WWW, but mystified about why BAe didn't want you to promote them -or is that just a story?
Also, have you ever worked, or trained, anywhere that was not the best?
If so, where and why?

[Send Clowns]

WWW

I could have perfectly legitimately posted as just a former student, even under a different name (from my other ISP so my TCP/IP address would be unconnected) but never desired to be anything but above-board. I could also have posted what I know about one or two other schools that is less than complimentary, but have never done so as it is from sources (reliable ones) not my own observation. I think I have been fair.

The reason I post only good things about SFT is that I never had cause to complain. Yes there were things that were less-than-perfect, as in every organisation, but never to the extent that I felt the need to complain to SFT as my training provider, so they were not really important and it would be unfair to bring them up here. I am also the solution to the most significant imperfection - lack of a consistant General Nav instructor/course - so this is no longer an issue.

Given this lack of complaint, the outstanding factors of SFT were positive - friendliness, helpfulness, quality of instruction, location, price. These are, therefore, the things I mention. Thank you for allowing me the perfect opportunity to mention them again :D .

Yours aye,
SC