Checklist inconsistencies

[C+]

In the FSI emergency check list under failure of the Torque guage it refers you to look at the Torque indication on the IIDS Instrum ment page. Well, I looked on the IIDS instrument page. Where is Q indicated?? I could not find it.

Also, it is almost the same regarding N1 except in this case there are two N1 Indications. Which do you refer to? I assume it is the Raw N1...

[gulliBell]

Surely this is not a serious question?? (but the geographical location of the thread poster leads me to believe it might be!). Under threat of risk of teaching one to suck eggs, there are 2 separate issues here, some C+'s have a torque gauge which is a round analogue dial indicating torque output for each engine (just read the number the needles are pointing at, or just try reading the digital readout if the cockpit isn't too bright). IIDS has nothing to do with a C+ which is fitted with an analogue TQ guage. If your C+ has IIDS it won't have a TQ guage, just 3 TV screens (not counting WX radar and EFIS) which unfortunately don't have an input connector with which you can plug in your Playstation 2 (now that's an idea for the Kratos engineers!!). 2 of the screens will show engine performance parameters, rising bars symbolizing each parameter which change from green to red as you exceed an operating limitation. Above each bar is the digital readout showing the actual number for each engine parameter for each engine, you'll find TQ there along with other things called N1 and NR and T5. But you don't really need to know anything about that as hopefully the expat Captain has it pretty well sussed out!! So if your C+ is fitted with IIDS just refer to the sections in the FSI checklist which relate to aircraft fitted with IIDS (I know that check list can get confusing, granted)
p.s. if you can't work out if your C+ has IIDS or analogue instruments then it's time to give up the game!!

[C+]

As sometimes happens peoples mouths (or fingers in this case) tend to engage with out the help of whatever gray matter the may or may not posses between their ears.
If you were to re-read the original post you will see that #1 we are obviously talking about an IIDS equiped aircraft, so as you correctly stated there would be no 'round' guage to check. #2, which is the point I guess you missed was that there is a TORQUE GUAGE FAILURE. In case you can not understand what that means I will exlain; it means that the digital and slide bar representations HAVE CEASED TO FUNCTION!. So, now MR. Rocket Scientist with a flare for unwanted and unwarranted sarcasm, where on the IIDS instrument pages or elsewhere do you find back up information about the amount of torque you are asking for????

[gulliBell]

My apologies for previous sarcastic reply, it was just toooo tempting!! but as you probably guessed it was said mostly tongue in cheek, and not being critical to the author! To get back to the crux of the question, I suspect you can't find the real-time TQ with the malfunction you've spoken of (except of course trying the obvious, cycling between the other 2 screens). I've seen the old IIDS system play up like this, but not since Sikorsky changed IIDS manufacturers (who is it now, Parker-Gull or Rogerson-Kratos??). Does an IIDS equipped C+ have the DDR? I don't think so, suspect they got rid of it and imported the DDR display functions into the IIDS. I think this aspect is really what you were getting at, as the DDR would show all engine parameters independent of guage malfunctions and the C+ with IIDS doesn't have the DDR?? But all this sounds like an excellent question for Nick Lappos, or just about everyone else because I ain't real smart in the first place!
BTW, not many C+'s in this part of the world, it's too hot!

[C+]

Yes I agree the obvious would be to check the screen of the other pilot provided of course that it is not malfunctioning as well. We have three Old style round guage a/c and 2 of the IIDS a/c. On the DDR a/c you can find the torque on the DDR as a back up to the round guage.
On the IIDS aircraft are the pilot and co-pilots IIDS Torque displays coming from two independent systems or could a single failure get rid of both dislays, where you would then need a backup display?
If this were the case then without a seperate place to read the torque (which is what the checklist seems to say there is), then how would you then find your torque value?
Mind you I only posted this question as a curiousity to show a possible deficiency in the checklist. I know as well as anyone else how to judge the probable torque value based on the other values available to me such as N1 or T5, etc.

[Joker's Wild]

While the FSI checklist may be relatively complete in its content, it is my understanding it is NOT approved for use in the aircraft itself, despite what some may say. Were it approved for use in the aircraft, the bottom of each page would not say "for training purposes only".

My advice is start with what the RFM says about things and go from there.

Oh and by the way, the failure you are referring to from the FSI checklist is the "torque INDICATOR malfunction".

[C+]

>>>Oh and by the way, the failure you are referring to from the FSI checklist is the "torque INDICATOR malfunction".<<<

Yes,yes, a thousand apologies for not using the correct terminology:E

Your point is taken, yes it does say "for training purposes only" at the bottom of the page. And I do agree that of course the RFM is the final source of info' one must ultimately refer to in case of an emergency. I was in my original post merely sighting a possible inaccuracy in the procedure refered to in the FSI checklist. I never stated that I had a failure of this system or that I used the FSI checklist in response to one.
As it happens this post that I originated came about after a colleague brought the subject up on a 'bored out of our skulls weather day" while we were stuck in the hangar...