MD Staff car park

[ppheli]

A friend of mine flew into Phoenix/Sky Harbor the other day. On long finals you come over Mesa and he said there were no more than 20 cars in the MD car park early afternoon and in years past there were many many more than this.

Given the quote from Kaman in their 1Q financials, what hope is there for MD?

"Helicopter subcontract work involves commercial helicopter programs. Current programs include multi-year contracts for production of fuselages and rotor systems for various MD Helicopters, Inc. (MDHI) aircraft. Total orders received from MDHI are running at significantly lower rates than originally anticipated. The company has developed a large investment in these contracts (including receivables, start-up costs, and other program expenditures) and has experienced difficulty with receipt of payments from MDHI. The company is concerned about this exposure and is working with MDHI in an effort to address their payment issues." (Kaman)

[ppheli]

129 reads, 0 comments so far..

Do I take it that MD is considered a "lost cause" now? Would Bell still be in the market to buy the NOTAR technology that they once showed a lot of interest in doing?

[Hover Bovver]

I think to make a comment about MDs health, based on the fact that a car park was empty on a thursday afternoon, is probably a little wide of the mark. And I guess suppliers are always moaning about manufacturers paying them LOL.

But I guess only time will tell.

Regards

Hover Bovver

[steve atherton]

when i was there they start very early because of the heat and in the afternoon there is no one working hence empyish car park


mind you i am waiting for my parts returning after repair they doo seem to keep customers waiting

if md reads this email me with my return dates

steve

n600pv.

[Ascend Charlie]

How would PF#1 make an approach into this carpark, given that there are no chicken coops in it?:confused:

[Notar fan]

ppheli,
While the anti-MDism sentiment in the helo industry recently is probably well founded, your car park comment does not make a lot of sense. Especially if your friend was on the BA flight from London, if he had looked across the street at Boeing, he probably would have seen the same picture at that time of day.
I have noticed in your previous postings that you don't seem to be an MD fan.........care to comment?

BTW MD could'nt sell the Notar system to anyone. Last I heard it is still owned by Boeing. :ok:

[ppheli]

Notarfan - he was on an internal flight from the east coast. Boeing were blitz-out busy that day with loads of cars in the car park. SA's point about work hours is feasible, I guess. As for what I am a fan of, the answer is "nothing particular" - that way I can be objective in these sorts of discussions. Sure there are nice and nasty looking helicopters, ones that fly better than others, ones that operate cheaper than others - and I could find priase (and criticism) for many other makes and models than the MDs. Anyone fancy starting threads on
- Bell angling themselves to exit the civil market
- Sikorsky Black Hawk parts quality
- Boeing Apache record in Iraq
- etc.............

I assume from your nom-de-plume that you are biassed towards tailrotor-less MDs? Does this insight give you any clues as to
- why there is such a problem with the Dutch Police Explorers?
- ditto the Turkish Police 600Ns
- why MD put out spurious Explorer fleet figures in their press releases (eg. last September saying there were 100 flying when the figure was around 90 and some of those not delivered at that point - see Dutch question above....)

[steve atherton]

pp heli

whats the problem with the turkish 600s i thought that was the fact they could not pay for them. i saw them all in the factory in feb



didnt md say they were up to sn 100 for the 900

i belive in 2002 they delivered 4 x900
5x 500
4x 520
2x 600

and in 2003 they intend to deliver 44 ships with 35 firm orders to date

maybe they have enough staff for the production they are doing how many ships came out of boeing mesa last year

for a new company starting out they doo seem to be sorting there selves out and hopefully will be a force to be reconded with

they doo have the product second to none

by the way i am biased i fly , and own a md 600 and i think its the dogs bollocks i dont work for md or a sales outfit just fly for the pleeeesurrre

md600 driver or steve atherton

someone tell me how to spell check on pprune

[PANews]

As it seems to be all against one....

and the Notar fans are winning the battle of words...

If anyone out there thinks that all is fine and dandy in Mesa I really think they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Just 600s report about seeing the Turkish MD600s at Mesa SHOULD be ringing lots of bells out there somewhere.

To add to the 600s you can pile in the undelivered 900s and then you should be thinking 'what company can afford to fill a hangar with unsold airframes and not be in trouble'

Some, the Dutch airframes for instance, have been completed for two years now and no-one can afford to have just one MD900 lying around doing nothing. The Dutch contract required all 8 delivered over a year ago.

If we all sit back and tell ourselves there is no problem we may be doing a disservice to many - including those smaller companies still waiting for their as yet unpaid for equipment sitting in the Mesa factory.

[ppheli]

Steve
You have hit the nail on the head. MD say they delivered #100 and everyone believes they now have 100 of the things flying. Rubbish! :yuk:

You first need to subtract 11 for serials #1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 9 which were ground test airframes, and #48 to 51 which were not built.

Next you need to look at the ones which haven't been delivered yet, like four for the Dutch police pre #100 ie #86/87/94/95 plus a number of aircraft still registered to MD which are sitting on the N register and not delivered #96/97/98/99

So at the point of delivering #100, they had shipped only 81 aircraft! (I am including demo aircraft in "shipped", but not everyone would)

Grant that there have been further deliveries since - they shipped #113 to Japan this week, but the other Dutch four (104/105/111/112) are still at Mesa so the figures are now 90 out of 113.

"maybe they have enough staff for the production they are doing" - chicken or egg? :confused:

Those Dutch ones... I wouldn't like to calculate the interest on the money tied up for that long - work out when #86 came off the production line in terms of what they have delivered the last few years... Also, in some quarters they believe that MD will never get the Explorer to meet the contracted spec and they will never be delivered to the customer. [incidentally, Rotor & Wing reported wrongly that the Dutch now have one new aircraft]

[Notar fan]

ppheli,
Please read the first sentence of my last post. I think it is a crying shame a good product suffers because of mismanagement. I am a fan of all helicopters, tail rotor or not.
The reason you start a thread like this and not on Bell, or Sikorsky, or Boeing is obvious. You are afraid to get into a discussion where some of the more experienced posters on this board will tear stripes of you. So instead you repeat your MD aircraft serial number party piece, with I have not disagreed with before and still don't.
If you think it is so easy trying to recertify an aircraft while trying to pander to the everchanging minds of your customers, then I suggest you start a helicopter manufacturing business. Then try competing against European manufacturers who have the added bonus of their government subsidies

PANews, nobody said everything is fine and dandy in Mesa. Is everything fine and dandy at all other helicopter manufacturer's plants?..........we would not know if we were to depend on your monthly report. The biggest operator of the MD900 is in your own back yard, but you refuse to acknowledge them or the fine work they accomphlish. Nor do you acknowledge the people who work so hard fundraising at a local level to keep these aircraft flying. Once again I say to you that you reporting reeks of politicing, and biasm (a biasm you are infamous for). If you were anyway passionate or truly interested about the industry and the people who work in it , your periodical would focus less on the big people in the big jobs, and more on the machines and the people who operate them, regardless of make or origin. I suggest you pick up and evaluate Heli-ops magazine, and see what down to earth reporting for us common folk looks like.

One last thing, Steve's comment on the Turkish deal is 100% correct. The ball has been in the Turkish court for quite some time.

I feel much better now.

[PANews]

You clearly misunderstand what my 'rag' is about.

It is about news.

Someone .....

buying a new aircraft......
offering a new aircraft...
modifying an existing aircraft ....
ditto equipment....
potentially interesting people moving ....
accidents...
aircraft companies in trouble .... [MD and Enstrom in the main at the moment]
how about the negative US reaction to Chirac and its effect on Eurocopter ....

It is not really about day-to-day operations in the sense you request. There are reports on major events - and each MD900/EC135/BK117 and A109 is hard at work most days.

But if they do something great, perhaps snatch a kid from the sea/snow/ice ... that news. Or if apparently nearly dead show up in the news [Norfolk] thats potentially news.

If Police Aviation News was about the day-to-day I could fill the 26 pages overnight tonight like a flight log but [just like police work] the ordinary is bleedin boring - even in an MD900.

The biggest operator of the MD900 is indeed my own back yard, and I do not 'refuse to acknowledge them or the fine work they accomphlish'. There have been recent reports on HEMS and Sussex.

As for the people who work so hard fundraising at a local level to keep these aircraft flying..... I can only report what I find. It is an unfortunate twist that no 900 unit is among those that voluntarile send me material.

If I were not passionate or interested about the industry I would have gone years ago. What big people in the big jobs.... machines and the people who operate them .... day-to-day stuff is pretty boring but I do carry stories of rescues off the south coast.... special events ... Sussex playing with a group of volunteers regardless of make or origin. If its Daily Mail page 20 its never likely to be real news... and worse still if its Brighton Mail page 10....

As for dragging Heli-Ops into the arena you are comparing chalk-with-cheese. What has Heli-Ops got to do with news? It is a very good looking pictorial spread and one way of presenting the 'bleedin boring' in an ever so acceptable way.

It is also a great way for showing Ned's great photos.

As for fund-raisers ... er.... have you not read the EMS section every month? OK so its about BO105s, AS355s, A109s and EC15s ... but that is the news that comes in [and that is often obtained at a struggle] perhaps you should tell your PR dept to make sure I get a few press releases. I am not a mind reader.

I really think you need to take off the blinkers.

[PRUNED]

I flew over the parking lot the other day at about 200 feet and my view was a hell of alot better than your friends from 6000 feet. Has your great friend been to the MD plant many times that makes him so well positioned to be able to pick out their parking lot from this altltude. Is it possible he was flying on a Sunday, maybe even dreaming. What about the possibility of your friend forgetting to set his watch to the correct time zone, it might have been late afternoon. People like you love to believe that the best product on the market will some day go away.

Mesa is on Pacific time right time, the production people, first shift start between 4am and 6am, knock off time is 2:30 pm. Office people are gone home normally by 3:30 pm or early afternoon. If there were only 20 cars with lets say 5 people to a car then the other 300 people must be busing, cycling or walking to work. I just thought of an idea, why don't you ask your friend to look out for the bicycles the next time he flys that straight in approach.
SORRY TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE, HOPE HE DOESN,T REMAIN YOUR FRIEND FOREVER. HAVE A NICE DAY AND LOOK OUT FOR THOSE SMOOTH NOTARS CAUSE YOU OR YOUR FRIEND WILL NEVER HERE THEM COMING.

[PANews]

PRUNED ...... No1 posting I see .... but who were you before you were Pruned?

Are things that serious that the subject needs new borns?

Please leave your car in the car park overnight and ride home on your fold-up bicycle.

I was once told by someone at Mesa that '... no-one is interested in your stories about MDHI ....'

Perhaps that was wide of the mark.

I thought this thread had had its day. That no-one was interested.

Perhaps THAT was also wide of the mark.

[HeliMark]

Looks like Notar Fan has come back as PRUNED.

A 520 is no more smother then a 500. And hope you do not need any parts for the head, takes about 1-2 months for those parts now. A new tailboom for a 520 is close to a year wait.

[Notar fan]

Helimark,
Last I heard you were an Astar pilot, so I am not quite sure how accurate your account of parts availability would be....unless....... of course, you boys are still clinging on to one or two MD products..........oh go-on admit it, you boys hate to see them go, afraid of what your going to miss:{ :ok:

or maybe,......... apart from carrying the extra load, that Astar isn't doing what you thought it would. It certainly would'nt be as much fun to fly.:sad:

[HeliMark]

That was pretty good NF. But our A-Stars are being outfitted and painted right now. Should recieve the first one in a couple of weeks and have alll six by July. And the next 6 by November or so.

Went to the factory school and flew one of the brand new ones home. What a pleasure, and even with the 40 kt winds on the way back, it out handled the 520 hands down. But, we are comparing apples and oranges as you are talking about just about 300 hp and 1,500 lb difference.

While the Notar may have its place at sea level, it is a shame that the factory is falling short. We have had a 520 sitting in the hangar for two months waiting for parts from the factory. And another one is due a main hub. It was ordered a month ago and we are hoping to have it in several weeks.

And by the way, even though according to a power check on the same day showing a better then spec engine, at 2.4K msl and 85F, the Notar is temp limited. Now I call that real usefull in SoCal area.