Qatar Critical

[A300Man]

News from within the Middle East Industry would suggest that morale is at a new all time low at Qatar Airways, and that there is a serious situation developing where the company is about to suffer an implosion of the current shaky structure. The Company is on the brink of anarchy and destruction if appropriate action is not taken very soon, and taken by experienced and professional individuals who are allowed to get on with their jobs without interference.

I am told that there are likely to be significant events in the very near future, that shall raise the public profile of QR - for all the wrong reasons!!!! The company is now, sadly, attracting some very bad press and interest is being shown by various authorities.

I find this very sad, as QR, to me, could have otherwise been an excellent company. It has most certainly now shown drastic signs of going off the boil, so much so that I find myself writing these comments. (Regulars will note that I am usually an Oryx fan!!)

Watch this space, and Good Luck to all my friends at QR. I hope that things get better very soon.

My information suggests that the Amiri Diwan is now taking significant interest in the current critical situation at the company.

Please note!!!!! - the above is NOT NOT NOT designed to be sensational - but is a TRUE and accurate reflection of how the current situation stands. More information will be posted when it becomes safe to do so - management are currently watching every single post being made here. I do not wish to compromise the position of anyone at the Company, since some of the info likely to emerge will come from very definitive sources.

Qatar Airways security department will already be trying to trace the origins of my words here - it is shocking to have heard that QR has an almost dedicated "Pprune Policeman"!!!!!!

Again - watch this space. Good luck to all you guys at QR.

AB6

[ferris]

I don't think anyone who follows this site will be surprised by your assertions. Personally, I am surprised that you are the one making them. I would have to agree that at times I almost thought you were an apologist for QR! I respect people who call a spade a spade.

As for QR- anyone following the range of comments, from the bitter rants to the more reasoned posts- would have smelled the roses.

I hope it gets better for you all. If only as much effort was put into fixing the problems as stifling the criticism?

[kenoco]

Exactly ferris i totally agree with you,why don't these people spend money on more productive parts of the company instead of covering up AAB huge mistakes,QR must spend $$$$$$$ on recruitment etc,I don't understand the mentality of the people behind QR,whats going on????

[cordy]

It will be sad to see some people do something to a growing airline, remember what happened to the 49's in Cathay be carefull. As for the management let them do the running of the airline, the pilots should fly and go home after the flights do not get involved in the politics you will only lose. Now is not the time to do anything drastic. One day things will get better, good luck to all in QR, and I mean all.

[A300Man]

Thanks Ferris. I am not an apologist at all for QR or anything - I just report things as I see them.

Right now, I see them (sadly) getting worse at QR and standards are being compromised due to too rapid expansion.

[maxtorque]

A300 man

I was very surprised at your initial post being the Oryx fan that you are/once were?.

I am interested to know exactly which standards are being compromised due to the expansion? I haven't seen any being compromised as of yet. But hey, I'm just one of the drivers. We are certainly maintaining our standards to the best of our professional abilities up the front.

I look forward to your reply.

Regards

max

[digna]

It is certinly sad what people write about Qatar Airways here but I think some of it if not the most is just kind of sabotage I don't work for QR any more but I did for some long time and I think the management is doing a big mistake by egnoring their working force and treating them just like (do it or do it ) no other way. the contract you sigen with Qr is just one month cotract and the mistakes that has been done is beyond corrrection or it will need time to gain the good emage for the company not as a service provider but as an employer thus only people with less capabiliteis will remain in the company . the passingers will enjoy the clean shiny aircrafts and the nice meal but only lucky people will meet a nice profitional crew to make their flight a pleasiant one .A freind of mine who was a cabin crew as well came with QR and he mentioned to me that the cabin crew were offering the choice to the pax in the row infront of him when he found that he has left only with one choice any way he manged as useual from the crew meal and when he came to serve him his meal he again offerd the non available meal choice . my long story here show that people or some of them are working with great fear and thus they are less creative and confident ,and the management is not doing any thing about it in fact they are encreesing the fear factor, if you want to see the cabin crew manager you have to be introgated first by his secretary who feel that it is not her job to do that if you need any thing you better go strait to the 9th things get done better there .Yet Qatar as a place is wonderfull and I mean it the company as routes ,layovers ,pay , and work condition is not bad the accomodation we had is one of the best you can find in the region the whole benifits was not bad but again it is only one month contract .

[Skaz]

Why only one month contracts? sound like Air Namibia!;) :yuk:

the guys get hired and fired that fast? then surely there is something seriously whacked in management? whats up...or not:rolleyes:

[gulf-crew]

Heard a rumour that staff at QR might be getting a pay cut yet again, have the crew not got enough to worry about, a junior at EK earns more than a CSD/CS at QR what a insult.

Any truth that QR might be signing up for 30 a/c, one thing to think about where are they going to get the crew from, they are struggeling at the moment and yet more resignations will come, anyone out in Doha Govt going to even think about getting rid of the Bouncer from Mothercare that would solve all QR's problems.

Good luck to all the crew you need a medal for putting up with the rubbish the bouncer gives you

[kenoco]

The "bouncer"has been around for a while now and everybody wordwide knows what a demon he is towards his crew,he is THE only reason for QR woes so I wonder what has he got on his bosses that keeps him where he is.Qatar is a lovely place but if AAB was in any other country in the world he would be up to his neck in lawsuits,and i think somebody mentioned contracts,WHAT CONTRACTS??????in my time in QR i saw people being terminated left right and centre for the most bizarre reasons,I think the local government and the local employment laws need a lot of modernisation,the system in QR is extremely outdated,I hope things get better for all involved,,,,,,,xxM.

[homesick rae]

A friend of mine was advised to go to the labour courts...

...but a little birdie told that person they would be out the country within 24 hours if they did so!!??:\

[Big Time Charlie]

I used to use a different log-in ID. Havent read prune for a while. However am not suprised at A300Man's comments one iota.

Most of it stems ,of course, from AAB. But of course, similar to not blaming a child for his action, it starts with the parents. In this case you can only blame the board.

Nobody in their right mind could ever convince logical thinking, experienced businessmen that a company can be run, survive & prosper in the manner in which he runs QR. However the board know this but allow this madman to carry on. QR represent their country and through this guy the reputation of Qatar the country is being or will be dragged through the dirt. Whilst he appeared to be good for the company at the beginning, he's now crossed the rubicon and theres no way back with him in charge.

In the same vein, AAB allows several people in key positions to run their areas despite the fact they are patently unqualified for their roles. You can only blame him for this. 2 people in particular GM commercial (GMC) and Manager HR (MHR) are embarrasingly incompentent.

MHR is akin to (for those who are familiar) Austin Powers Mini Me! Seems to hang on to every word of AAB, makes completely riduculous and meaningless statements and to cap it all call ABB "Your Excellency" (I'm not joking), such is the measure of the man.

MHR's favourite expression is "No" in response to most questions. Possibly the most unlikeable man within the company. Travels the world recruiting people with no set standard for recruitment (those who have been interviewed by him will know how bad he is), even going as far afield as Argentina.

This is, believe it or not, constructive. So AAB please listen. These 2 people "control"(under AAB's so caled management) the company's most important assets, its staff and its most important area for the future, commercial strategy.

With due respect to lower echelons, the company have no idea how to handle expats particularly Europeans, American, Australians etc in terms of personal requirements etc of these people. They desparately need the expertise but the package does not really equate to competitors. Maybe not too apparent at first but the little things like not having non-offloadable annual leave tickets (EK are non offloadble) are just some of the points that are not acceptable. The turnover of staff, particularly management, in last 12 months says it all. Can anybody give figures? The Qatari's themselves are not in a position to take over most key functions nor will be for a long while.

Commercial decisions that basically follow the strategy of EK are completely transparent. Buying aircraft that don't fit the "duplicated" routes don't help. I once went to a meeting where numerous route considerations were banded around the table, some possibly viable, some completely ridiculous. For example Madrid or Malaga via Casablanca. Anyone in their right mind wouldn't fly from ME to Spain via CMN. I once also saw Havana written on MF's board (a result, I believe, of some Cuban dignitories visiting Qatar).

If the company had to make a profit to survive they would have been dead a long time ago. Maybe if the board limited their funding and insisted that they will ultimately cut the umbilical, it may drive changes for the better ie. more informed commercial decisions, based on sound business ideas and proper research.
If they even had a long term strategy it may help but they havent (a fact).

The biggest worry of all is that there is not an effective safety culture, nor could there be whilst there is such a high level of fear culture within the entire company. Other carriers who operate to DOH are aware of this (fact). Even if AAB leaves this would take years to turn around. There is no real conception of the potential impact of the future credibility of QR if the worst happens instead adopting a "it won't happen to us" attitude.

So all in all its not suprising that morale is "at an all time low", in fact you could say its lower than its lowest point....to my memory its never been high. How can you possibly keep people happy and retain their respect in an environment like this?

Frankly AAB and his cronies are their own worst enemies...they can only blame themselves......but I sympathise a little......its always difficult to come face to face with the truth....isnt Mr AAB?

[4HolerPoler]

Great post BTC. Welcome back. Nice to see some sane, well-thought out comments and observations. Let's hope it sets a standard.

4HP

[homesick rae]

Great post BTC!!

There is no grievance procedure in QR and no appeal system as such.

One ex colleague was sacked but, when they went to hand things back ( manuals etc ), no one knew anything about it! To the point that the person in question was offered a brand new manual!

This was questioned through "personnel" and human remains and they insisted they had no instruction to the effect even though PD had signed the " extermination" letter!?

Appeal? Too busy....

As non flight deck I was sad that DF left. He was always there to hear problems from both sides of the cockpit door.( And he for one TRIED to keep us at Kovalam beach in TRV! Thumbs aloft DF!)
I say this because neither BG ( Lurch ) or SK ( the snake ) listened to anything the Cabin Crew said...oh unless it was a complaint against the supervisors! Or some other malicious gossip!

AAB gets too involved in everything and people's personal lives. He is a control freak and still believes he can do an EK. Too late for that...

I have friends who flew QR and made sure their employees did. Now that has changed and they fly with EK/ GF or any other carrier. Sure there will always be pax but these people were CIPs and I know for a fact that QR did not give 2 hoots!

SO SO SAD...

AAB...your bubble is about to burst! Get used to it! Get over it!

Then leave well alone!





:* :*

[jet4hire]

A little bird told me that things will never change in QR ????
thus I've heard Mr. AB is a potential investor in this company and no matter what we post or bashed. Things will go in-out!!! unfortunately:{

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[junkyard dog]

Whats all this rubbish that is being said about QR ?...
weather you like it or not , the airline will reach it's goals and
succeed .

Every airline has it's flaws , and QR is no exception.

QR is backed by the richest country in the world , and when you have that kind of back up ... your on top of the world.


All this baseless talking has no use . Are you in AAB chair to know what's going on?
Just because he is holding a stick in his hand over all the staff , does not make him bad..
It's the $$$ that talks ...and AAB has set a goal for that in 2007..
so why don't we give the guy a chance?

The way he treats people is a complicated issue , that surely has it's reasons to justify it...

What don't you talk about the dissasters happening with airlines in europe for a change? and compare that with QR...
Do you see the difference?

[newswatcher]

Steady on JD, Qatar just outside top 10 richest countries in the world, depending on which measurement used. If you take Gross National Income(GNI) per head, on 2001 figures(World Bank) the richest countries were lead by Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Switzerland and Norway, whose GNIs were some 40% above that of Qatar.

[kenoco]

Also JD if QR was based in the west AAB and his cronies would not be able to operate the way they do because our employment laws are up to date unlike the nonexistant ones in Qatar,his abuse of staff is illegal over here,plus nobody knows whether QR is making any money at all because of the free reign Snackbar has for the next couple of years.

[Goldstone]

I hear that the Oryx was referred to publicly by a competitor as "the Goat" recently. Now that is funny!

Much truth in what A300 Man and Good Time Charlie have to say. If the airline fails it will be because of the incompetence of AAB and certain of the senior management, particularly the HR guy and the GM Commercial. Neither is anywhere close to being up to the job, but as "Yes Men" they will not be fired.

[Big Time Charlie]

Junkyard Dog makes me laugh. Seems like it could be AAB himself to me. If all was rosy in the garden you wouldnt have all these pruners (including me) whinging on about what a crap outfit QR are to work for. And No I don't agree that regardless they will not neccesrily reach their goals & suceed. One big accident (god forbid) could see the end of them in their present form. At least prune is a forum to air our views.

Unsafe airlines (see my previous thread) should be publicised (as should anything where companies are taking risks with other peoples lives). Big airlines in Europe whatever you may say generally treat their employees with respect (mostly couldnt be any other way...we live in a democratic society...something that they are not very familiar with in this area) something that is SERIOUSLY lacking in QR.

However, as an employee, I am sad that all the effort I put in in my own way just goes to waste (as does that of present & former colleagues) because idiots like AAB, Mini-Me & PD are trying to empire build. Believe me I (& others) could tell you some stories (not appropriate for this forum..I'll save it for the News of the World, National Enquirer) which would prove without doubts that all three are very very big hypocrites.

So in instead of publishing crap in The Peninsula & other publications and boring most of us stupid about how we should be quivering in our boots and land in jail for telling the truth (sounds like Mugabe doesnt it)...he should get down to repairing Management-Employee relations, delegate responsibility then he might find that the tide may turn...but I fear, no I know, its completely lost on him.

4HP, Goldstone, Homesick Rae...thanks for yr comments on my earlier thread. Nice to know that there are some realistic people out there.

[purr]

Guys in the air don't we handle our problems in a more fluid way? Why not on the ground too.Has any one heard of the term DROP THE BIRD ? :ok:

[Big Time Charlie]

No. Can you enlighten us?

[junkyard dog]

Hi .

BTC , I am actualy new to this forum , but I have made a bit of research .... I have read many of the posts in this forum.

The intresting part of this forum is that up untill now I have not read a post that has deep and secret information that people can benifit from about QR....or about AAB ....

I mean insider information ..... this is missing!!!
I only read 2 posts ...one about the Captain that had a problem with his beard or hair and was fired , the other about the Captain that was fired because of his ex - girlfreind..

This sort of information influences the forum and changes peoples ideas towards AAB ...

The other type of talking witch you are engaged in is like dog barking i.e. has no use .....

So please , I am not trying to be rude to you , but if you can give me information about QR or AAB that will make people change their minds about the airline or AAB , fine.


thats it for now...

[homesick rae]

what?

you mean like walking on the aircraft and saying to one of the female crew: " you were at the Shearaton last night no? and your jeans were very tight isn't it?" and walking away?

that kind of info?

yeah i was there!!!

[Big Time Charlie]

Junkyard, I find your comments intriguing (if I really understood them properly), but still a bit strange. Your research should have thrown up quite a bit of insider info, particularly things I've contibuted (mostly under another name). Not up to contrvening the Official Secrets Act I admit, but sensitive info none the less. Why do you think the midget is jumping up and down threatening to use the law etc.

There is plenty on these threads (some good, some not so good) to find out what QR are like to work for. Its just that the concencus of opinion is negative. The European airlines have their problems but generally don't (& can't) treat their people like crap.

I agree with Rae...if you don't find here, you're on the wrong forum my freind!

[Ramboflyer 1]

I still think there weird when with 5000 A320 command hours they havnt been in contact with me in the last year , what the hell do they want.
:cool:

[A300Man]

Latest I am hearing is that the balance sheet is now causing "grave" concern amongst the private shareholders who have been bank-rolling the airline for years.

Apparently the Alfardans, Al Mana's and UDC's of this world are now taking a very healthy interest in the carrier's financial performance.

Indeed, and I quote, "it is crazy that we send an A300 4 times a week to Manchester with average loads of 24 passengers, while the man who should be looking after the business is more crazy about who is wearing the hat correctly and which crew member is holding a fork wrong when serving caviar".

I think there is lots more of this to come.........I hope I am wrong though, for the sakes of all you guys and girls who are still there at Qatar.

[junkyard dog]

Any news on the Captain that was fired because of his filipino girlfreind that accused him of taking naked pictures of her?

My sources tell me he is an F/O somwhere in the region...

[IT555]

Latest I am hearing is that the balance sheet is now causing "grave" concern amongst the private shareholders who have been bank-rolling the airline for years.

Apparently the Alfardans, Al Mana's and UDC's of this world are now taking a very healthy interest in the carrier's financial performance

[A300Man]

........and, what?

[denbatty33]

Is it true that QR will be ordering B777-200LR and -300ER. All together 20 aircrafts.

What a crazy idea!!!!!!!!!!

All this when the balance sheet is in dire staits.
GM COm - MSF destroying yields, loses over USD100 mill and we still need B777?

Someone help us!:{ :{

[A300Man]

Yes, it appears true that QR is in negotiation with Boeing for a new ultra long haul fleet. However, they are also speaking with Airbus too.

Anticipated that the order will be for a large quantity of aircraft. The A380 order is still firm, I am told, although its all been pretty quiet on that front of late.

[Goldstone]

One of the (many) problems the airline has is that in many of the markets it serves there is virtually no awareness of Qatar Airways among its potential passengers. In fact many do not even know where or what Qatar is. Of the carriers in the region Emirates now has very strong awareness around its route network and GF is beginning to regain its high profile .... but Qatar Airways???

As a result the only way to build loads is through discounting and I'm told for example that in the UK market QR's fares to most of the points on its network are always cheaper than any of its competitors. As long as the airline's profile remains so low it will never successfully improve its yields and reach profitability.

Not surprising that the Manchester loads are so poor. Going ahead with the launch of the route during the Iraq conflict was crass stupidity. It would have made sense to everyone to postpone it for a few months until traffic rebuilds.

[killick]

Qatar Airways is 51% state-owned, and the State of Qatar is not going to allow such a high-profile element of its face to the outside world collapse. Other shareholders may be less than happy about the absence of financial return, but their intersts are decidedly secondary to the State's, and they will be required to lump it for now, as the State's agenda is currently more about profile and presence than profitability (and given that no Balance sheet is currently published, any talk of actuals is pure speculation, or someone inside is playing a dangerous game!).

Re comparisons with Emirates - How long did EK run before breaking even?

Qatar is a country whose wealth is beyond the imagination of most of us from elsewhere - and it's going to get a lot richer over the next few years. GDP per head of national population (exclude the expats - we don't count) is around USD100k already and set to double within 3 years as the flow of LNG and gas-related products increasingly generates massive incremental income. In this context, the State can well afford to loss-lead with its national flag carrier.

And no, I am not AAB or even a QR employee.

[newswatcher]

Hi Killick,

As previously posted on this thread, according to the World Bank, the GNI/capita, on a population of about 600k, was between $25-26k on 2001 figures. I believe it rose to $28.3 in 2002. There are certainly predictions for a major rise in GNI when revenue from Gas is realised. Where did you get your $100k predictions from? :confused:

[killick]

The 600k figure is total population, including expatriates (in fact the figure seems to be rising rapidly, and you will find takers at 750-800k).

The Qatari population is very small, and probably no more than 150k - I can't recall exact voting figures in the referendum on the constitution, but seem to recall they were broadly in line with this assumption. Given that the only "owners" of Qatar's GDP are the Qataris themselves, then the true GDP per head of national population (ie excluding the expats) rises dramatically to USD100k plus.

Where do I apply for a passport?!?!?

[HF-in-Doha]

GDP per capita is predicted to reach $50000 by 2006 which includes the whole population of Qatar, this is according to a cabinet member. The country should be the richest per capita from next year.

As for the most recent GDP figures (From Qatar Central Bank and Planning Council / Figures rounded):

2002/2003 Gross Domestic Product: US $18.8 billion
Population Estimates: 621,000
Doing the Math: $30,300

[Gillegan]

Emirates have posted a profit in all but the second year of operations.

[killick]

Thanks - didn't know that. As with most things EK, highly impressive.......be interested to know to what extent the airline has been sustained by other elements of the Emirates Group (eg hotels), but that strays from the point somewhat.

I don't think QR is oblivious to the need to make money, the question is when and how. As mentioned earlier, the State can afford to support it through a troubled adolescence, and it may follow the Emirates model of adding other business lines to generat additional cash flow. It already has Duty Free and the domestic booze monopoly, and there are rumours of further additions in the marketplace.

[Big Time Charlie]

Killick....what you've said is fair enough. However, we all know that Qatari government can sustain QR through any period of time...even....the next 100 years if they had to.

Any sensible businessmen would think at some point that enough is enough, throwing good money after bad for too long and that they will decide to effectively cut QR's umbilical to sustain itself in the marketplace (like EK).

Apart from Football clubs in Europe (they do it for the love and passion of the game and their club) what other industry/company would even contemplate putting up with behaviour and practices that would clearly prevent them getting even a reasonable return on their investment?

So in answer to the other part of your question...when?

The Bouncer appears to be so naive. Again any sensible businessman would try to forsee that time approaching (even if it is still a fair way off) and start to try to get the company in good shape. However he continues to operate QR like they are his own toy trainset.

Doing it now or in the near future would be financial suicide.

In answer to your question....how?

I've said all this before but QR are such a long way from this point in terms of safety culture, sound business decisions (ie. profitable routes, matching aircraft with routes to maximise yield, retention of skilled management, limiting expansion to a manageable level....basic stuff eh?) etc etc etc that any normal company would have nosedived at a rapid rate straight into the red by now if they had done the same things that QR have.

By definition this makes any sucess that QR have had, artificial. Thats a real shame for all the real people that have contributed to QR.

The board need to wake up and take action before all their credibility is finally lost. Address these relatively simple issues and it might survive on its own.

We all know why this won't happen yet.

[Goldstone]

Another QR question.

What's happened to the freighter?

It was due to be out of Dresden and ready for work in early June. Then I heard July. Now someone has said August. And what is the operating pattern. CGN have said they are hoping to get it and the UK has been mentioned.

[denbatty33]

Simple answer!

As usual Commercial GM - MSF wants to control the freighter operation and this has run into some dispute with the UK consultants.

As it is MSF does not have a clue to how to run a airline commercial dept, leave alone a freighter. All he knows his dilute yield as much as one can to get the pax at any cost.

Also his favourite is have meetings after meetings - we have about 15 meetings a day - and all have to be minuted... so we spend our valuable time on silly unproductive meetings and taking minutes but not actually focusing on the real day-to-day operations.

Another reason why EK and GF are miles ahead of QR!

[Goldstone]

The freighter idea came from Stephen Vella in the first place, so I'm surprised he would let MF overrule him. The problem with the guy is that he refuses to admit he knows nothing about cargo and proceeds to interfere. And I've heard about his meetings. They drive everyone mad. I understand his favourite is to ask for opinions on a subject and then proceed to interrupt the speaker before they've made their point. One very unpleasant character.

[A300Man]

QR will make an announcement at Paris Air Show next month regarding new purchase. strong rumors from within that it will include both Airbus and Boeing

[flysr4ever]

14 A330s
2 B777-300ER (+8 options)

According to Flight International.

[Big Time Charlie]

Same old nonsense with the freighter, same old nonsense with MSF, nothing ever seems to change. You are all absolutely correct about him, knows zero about anything, particularly how the cargo industry works.

With all due respect to Stephen Vella, anyone who knows anything about freighters will tell you that a converted A300 is not the best suited for the job (there are better options for many reasons) and some of the routes touted about (particularly in the Indian subcontinent) will have a very difficult time trying to meet the requirements of a freighter. You need to get people onboard who have experience of operating & marketing freighters, not a GM Commercial whose previous experience and current capabilities are questionable to say the least.

Having said that, marketed correctly it could make big money. A high proportion of profits (past & present) of a lot of the big and established carriers are made up of cargo revenues.

MSF.....busy achieving nothing as usual.

[IT555]

GDP per capita is predicted to reach $50000 by 2006 which includes the whole population of Qatar, this is according to a cabinet member. The country should be the richest per capita from next year.

As for the most recent GDP figures (From Qatar Central Bank and Planning Council / Figures rounded):

2002/2003 Gross Domestic Product: US $18.8 billion
Population Estimates: 621,000
Doing the Math: $30,300
This topic has more than 10 replies. Click

[killick]

A population of 621000 sounds a little understated - not disputing your arithmetic, but my original point was that you should exclude the significant expatriate population if you want a real GDP per capita and a true sense of the wealth that really exists on this blessed sandbank. There are only around 150000 Qatari nationals in toto, hence my earlier statement - the rest of us are a temporary, disposable commodity in the eyes of the state, as a cursory glance at the the qatar-related threads on pprune would illustrate graphically........We wait for crumbs to drop from the table, but we will never be invited to sit at it.

Sorry - it's far too early in the day to get mystical, and my head hurts.....