BAe Jerez you think they can help you?

[Mr 5mith]

A big topic of conversation, Jobs after one has completed a fully intergrated ab-initioATPL course. In recent postings I have observed that many of you are handing over large sums of money over to BAe Spain( ie starting courses) . But I wonder if anyone has researched how (if they do) the company assist newly graduated CPL/IR holders. Now in my opinion it would be in BAe's interest to help Self funded students, as it would reflect well on them if they were all finding jobs, wouldnt it?

As it stands at the moment nothing exists like this. Im not suggesting that jobs should be set out ready and waiting once you finish ( I wish). But maybe some guidance, help and any sort of assistance should be made available. Perhaps interview coaching? maybe an airline address book? or something of the sort? . Even small things like how to set out a CV. In comparision I wonder what the other FTO (oxford/ cabair etc) do to assist self funded students?

Maybe the new students joining in October should think about speaking with Dave Shinner or Steve Green and posing them a few questions? ( if you can get hold of them)

[mdieker]

Hey Mr 5mith, I am one of them who will start at 1th October in Jerez. At the beginning of July I visited their facility and had a lot of questions in mind. One of them was of course if Baeft offered their self sponsored student any assistance when looking for a job. Their answer was that they couldn't promise anything because they are not an airline. I was also informed that everything depends highly on the student itself. However they said that they offered assistance in making your CV & interview training. Most of their students are airline sponsored, so they have some good contacts with these airlines which they can use to place self sponsored students etc. There is notting stated on paper that I get assistance in my search for a job. I think no school will do that.

Good Luck !!!

Regional

[Mr 5mith]

Hello Regional,

well I have first hand info that no such CV help and definatly no interview coaching exist if it does then i am somewhat miss informed . I wonder who was going to help with this I am interested to know. And the contacts with airlines? hmmm i dont know about that one..but then again maybe im wrong

[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: Mr 5mith ]

[mdieker]

Hi Mr 5mith,

What I understand is that you have had some bad experience with them. Can you please clarify what happened exactly. Did you graduate recently from Baeft, or some time ago? The marketing dept will always try to give a ideal picture of everything, maybe they got a little bit to far.

It is the purpose of every FTO to make a profit and to satisfy their customers. But sometimes these two goals are contradictorily and then customer satisfaction gets on second place. Because you won't come back to them they know.

Well I signed the Baeft contract yesterday, but maybe I still can learn from your experience.

Cheers,

Regional

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Well.

Lets see. On the main self sponsored course that were going through when I taught at Jerez last year and who graduated 3 months or so ago, I draw the following:

Matt Culmer, Rob Gibson and 'Atomic' Chan graduated strongly and Steve Green/Dave Shiner sorted them out with recommendations to various airlines. They are now employed by Loganair, Britannia and British Airways respectively.

So there are the names and airlines. Any Questions? No? Good.

Look - frankly what do you want from FTO's with regard to airline preparation?!

How to write a CV - buy a book, airlines are no different to any other company.

How to prepare for an interview - duh! Do some reseach, get a haircut and polish your shoes. Its like any other job.

A list of airline addresses? Already available from the IPA, BALPA, The Pilot Register, the CAA, Co-Pilot Magazine or 10 mins research with www.google.co.uk (http://www.google.co.uk)

Interview coaching? Maybe useful. I imagine someone like Steve Green would cost you about £400hr at standard training rates.

It seems to be a common complaint by some students that FTO's do nothing to get you a job. I can sympathise VERY slightly with people moaning about OATS as I think in the past their marketing side has traded far too heavily on their 'airine contacts' and use a nudge and a wink to write cheques their bodies can't cash.

BUT.

If you WANT FTO's to put time, money and effort into some kind of airline prep course then be prepared to see some extra digits at the bottom of your bill. NOTHING in this life is free (apart from AOL coasters).

Recommendations have to be limited to a few course graduates by their very nature.

Sorry Mr 5mith but all I can hear here is whining and it ain't the turbine kind.

Sorry if you think this is harsh - but I think its only fair when I spend so much time being hard on FTO's that I take a similar stance when its the students in the wrong.

Good luck with your job hunting,

WWW

[window-seat]

Thank you WWW.

When one has chosen to go the Integrated Route, you find yourself with a pretty limited choice! Basically (in my view) there are only three realistic contenders, and you dont have to look far if you want to find the negative points of any of them.

You can go on getting information for as long as you like (good and bad), looking for the perfect result but guess what.......you wont find it! (or if you do, please let me know ;) ).

So at the end of the day, you make your choice (for your own reasons), you pay your 'substantial amount of money' and you take your chance. There are no guarentees, just as with any other career!

These companies are there to make money, and personally, I would prefer to go to one which does this successfully, so that they stay around whilst I am with them.

As far as getting a job goes, the University I went to, did not offer me any help with my C.V. or set me up with any interviews with suitable companies! We all had to go out into the big bad world and find ourselves jobs. Some of us were lucky and went straight into a well paid job, others were offering for you to 'go large for 30p'! The odd few spent several years at Uni and never found employment within their trained proffesion.

So whats different........only one thing, 'THE MONEY'! It seems that people expect to walk into a well paid Airline Job just because they have sold their Grandparents etc to get qualified. Flying aeroplanes is expensive, we all wish it wasn't quite so but there we go! Thats why it costs us a fortune to get qualified, and thats why, hopefully one day, your Airline wages may give you a reasonable quality of life!

Who knows, in 18 months, maybe I will be feeling a little betrayed by the system, but until then, please do not try and deflate us before we have set sail! ;)

p.s. I will be straight out obtaining my QFI ticket having obtained my FATPL, I will fly something for a living, be it a C150! :D

[Mr 5mith]

WWW- I understand what you mean. But it doesnt take much just to organise something in the lines of a meeting/group session between ,managment and students to discuss various options once students have graduated. All i am saying is that something like that would benifit both students and company.


I wonder if any current students can say what happens there at the moment? I believe some students will be graduating soon?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Well I imagaine the same thing will happen again. I know one or two who I am confident will get a recommendation from SG because they are patently very good.

WWW

[VFE]

BAE do have some sort of an arrangement with BA called *fumbles through papers* the SSP scheme and basically (because I'm on my dinner break and can't be bothered typing much!) if you get an average of above 85% in all subjects, hit simulator performance on an average of 3 or better, hit progress assesments at 3 or better, have a max of 2 attempts at the I/R, overall course flying assesment of 3 or better and have your team skills on an average of 3 or better you will get looked at by BA. Make sense? No? I'll probs type it all out later on....

VFE.

[SuperTed]

WWW,

You mention three names in your post who went on to the airlines after finishing at BAe. How many were on that same course that didn't get recommendations??

Also how many recomendations are made each year from BAe- on average ball park figure??

Thanks!

[Capt Wannabe]

Sorry to jump in here, but in answer to SuperTed, the three names that were mentioned were the only people on thier course to graduate on time. In fact, some of that course are STILL here.

One of them (Rob) has been back here for a month doing the Britannia JOT course, so I'd certainly say BAe has a contact with them.
There are many other graduates who are employed in a number of airlines, but it is totally unreasonable to expect BAe or any other FTO to automatically find a job for you. This is particularly true for the weaker students.
I am on the next course to graduate, and am confident that the company are doing as much as they can and it seems to be working.

Mr 5mith, it seems you have some kind of axe to grind with BAe, have you actually been here, or is it all just hearsay? Perhaps you could email me.

WWW, you missed a fantastic party here last week. The biggest yet :)

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Yes I was invited to the Pool party - I understand the standard tactic of a bus load of Norwegian language exchange girls was to be employed again. Sigh.

Couldn't make it unfortunately as I was working - to make things worse I was operating out of Malaga that evening - I spent half the time craning out of the window to see if I could see the party!

I would say the best 2 or 3 out of a course can expect a recommendation. Typical courses are anywhere from 6 to 12.

There are no hard and fast rules,

WWW

[QUERY]

Interesting disclosures- about the low incidence of recommendations to airlines, unreasonable to expect FTO to find you a job-but is BAe typical?