View Full Version : Museum aims to land Concorde

BAe 146-100
2nd May 2003, 00:29

MUSEUMS chiefs have launched a bid to bring Concorde to a popular Lothians tourist attraction.

They have written to British Airways in an effort to secure one of the UKs seven decommissioned jets for the Museum of Flight in East Fortune.

The move follows a mounting campaign to see one of the supersonic jets brought to the East Lothian attraction.

Source: Edinburgh Evening News (http://www.edinburghnews.com/edinburgh.cfm?id=496542003)

BAe 146-100

Shaggy Sheep Driver
2nd May 2003, 04:02
Sir Richard still has hopes of aquiring the fleet and keeping them in the air.

Can't see it happening myself, but I think they'd look nice in Virgin colours.


vintage ATCO
2nd May 2003, 04:15
I have heard from an insider that all Concordes will go museums and not one will stay in the air 'at any price', inc the Air France acft.



2nd May 2003, 04:30
The story is now being firmly told that Airbus are withdrawing support for spares and special advice/maintenance. It does not matter if this is true, or simply a smokescreen for AF + BA to stand behind - if they do not want to appear to be removing everyone's favourite. It is over.

(Which is why I am carefully clasping my confirmed reservation for 8th August. Ssshhh!)

BAe 146-100
2nd May 2003, 05:28

Why are Airbus withdrawing support for spares and special advice/maintenance? It seems that Airbus are being a bit bitter towards Concorde :rolleyes:.

BAe 146-100

Dr Jekyll
2nd May 2003, 15:01
The point is that Air France can't afford to operate it, and they naturally don't want BA to carry on if they can't.

2nd May 2003, 16:25
Providing support and spares for such a small fleet of highly specialised aircraft such as Concorde must be very costly. Frankly I'm amazed (and pleased) that it has lasted so long.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
2nd May 2003, 17:58
It will be sad if these amazing aircraft end up parked in the open on various airfilds as 'exhibits', corroding and generally turning into tatty hulks fit only for the scrap man.

Let's hope that some at least find a home indoors and receive lots of TLC to keep them looking as good as they are now - inside and out.


2nd May 2003, 20:33
As I mentioned on another thread R-R at Patchway are ditching their stocks of Olympus spares and overhaul kit so I guess it will be bye bye to Concorde, you go nowhere without an engine.


(with apologies to glider pilots)

2nd May 2003, 21:08
Is 202 (G-BBDG) still at Filton? Stored there since '81 according to what I've read. That would be the obvious place to keep one. The National Air & Space in Washington are applying for one too.....bit ironic when it was the US environmental lobby that wanted no Concorde flights into America....:rolleyes:

Shouldn't be a problem finding enough 'serious' museums; there are only twelve active machines, and I'm sure that there are that many collections with the space to keep one properly looked after.

BAe 146-100
3rd May 2003, 05:54

I suppose it was only time until Concorde was retired :(.

BAe 146-100

3rd May 2003, 16:45
This is one of those periods in aviation, when it is impossible to get a clear picture of what will happen to Concorde.

Museums are high on the agenda but I think it would be right to say that there are, in the background, moves afoot to keep Concorde flying. These are things we will not hear of until they who make the decisions decide to tell us.

I hope the news will be good.

BAe 146-100
3rd May 2003, 18:15

I agree with you CamelPilot.

BAe 146-100

5th May 2003, 05:23
Totally agree with Shaggy Sheep. If the aircraft are not guaranteed a home with a roof - scrap 'em. It's too proud an aircraft to be dripping with rust in 10 years time.

At least the Yanks will keep one or two under cover.

Whispering Giant
5th May 2003, 16:21
NOPAX - i can confirm that G-BBDG is still at Filton and has it's own little hangar there - if you know thwe area - the hanger that can be seen on the otherside of the airfield from the A38 with the red door's is where it lives. It is minus it's tail and rudder and the drooping nose as it wouldent fit in the hanger with them still fitted and it is also fitted with a dummy undercarriage constructed of tubular steel but it is still reconisable as a concorde. The interior has also been gutted from the a/c and many of the internal panels are also missing.
Re Rolls Royce ditching there stock's of spares and overhaul kit's for the olympus engine - this is not strictley true - they may be withdrawing support for the aviation version of this engine but they will still be required to support the marine version which power's many of our a/c carrier's and frigate's

I also believe from a orginisation that i am involved with that has been in discussions for the last few years with BA - that one of the BA fleet of Concords will be going to Filton(the a/c birthplace) for display when they are finally retired. Hopefully this will be one of the Filton built examples as opposed to a Toulouse

hopes this helps.


5th May 2003, 17:18
Interesting that when Virgin offered to share the LHR - New York route with BA with duel colour schemed aircraft, the BA boss ran out of argument and said that he may consider this. Light at the end of the tunnel perhaps, as BA did such a thing with Air Singapore once. If they have 10 years left in them, then keep them flying is my stance.

vintage ATCO
5th May 2003, 19:58
Interesting and informed comment in the ABTN newsletter and on their web site http://www.abtn.co.uk/. You need to scroll down.


5th May 2003, 20:16
The main thread on this subject, running in Rumours, shows that BA are fed up with taking the flak. They are now stating clearly that they wanted to have the a/c still operational but AirFrance and Airbus have both decided to stop. The cost of continuing without them would be prohibitive.

Of course, it might be that another operator could negotiate the fees for support and spares but the suppliers would take the opportunity to raise prices significantly. However, this quote is from ABTN:It now appears that BA did not have much of a say on the matter The Financial Times got to the crux of the situation quoting Airbus, or if you prefer, France. It wanted out. We will absolutely not, as Airbus, support any initiative to put Concorde back into operation by any other operator. I dont want any ambiguity around that, said Noel Forgeard, chief executive of Airbus, successor to the original manufacturers Aerospatiale and BAC. Naturally enough financial reasons were stated, but that has never worried the French before.

On the matter of the Olympus engines ... apart from the marine version, there used to be an emergency power generating plant at Paddington in West London that had a pair (at least) of them to provide emergency cover for the area. Not sure of how they linked to the generator set. They would auto start, like any stand-by generator would, and could run up fast! I recall that the neighbours always knew when they were being test run. :}

Not sure of they are still in service.

5th May 2003, 21:53
I have heard that the Air France and BA Concorde's differ significantly in operational terms. For example, I understand that the BA Concordes' had deflector shields on the main undercarriage after the incident in NY 10 years ago. BA accepted the NTSB's recommendation to fit them, AF elected not to as they weren't a mandatory mod. Didn't BA say a few years ago that they didn't want AF's Concordes because of the differences between them?

Is Airbus trying to distance itself from it's roots? Do they want to be known for the current generation of Airbus products? Does the old sky queen embarass the producers of tubby tubes?

PAXboy aero derivative turbine powered generator sets are the standard method of power supply on the larger offshore platforms and smaller gas-fired power stations. The alternator is driven through a step down gearbox which brings the engine's 30,000rpm down to the 2,000 or so required by the alternator. Quite a chunky gearbox :ok:

5th May 2003, 22:25

Sir Richard Branson is stepping up his efforts to buy Concorde from British Airways.

The Virgin Atlantic boss has called on the Government to pressure BA into handing over its operating figures.

BA plans to retire Concorde in October, blaming falling passenger numbers since the crash near Paris three years ago that killed 113 people.

Sir Richard says he would be prepared to run it at a loss because of the prestige it would bring his own airline.

Trade and Industry Secretary Patricia Hewitt said she had not yet received a proposal from Sir Richard but indicated she would welcome one.

"I shall be very interested indeed to look at any proposition from Richard Branson," the minister said.

"I haven't had one yet (but) I will look at it and discuss the idea with (Transport Secretary) Alistair Darling."

Asked why she believed BA had decided to kill Concorde off, Ms Hewitt said: "That is an extremely interesting and important question.

"It is one that I shall be very happy to discuss with Richard Branson."

He wont let go will he:O

Of course an ex-Air France now Virgin AND BA fleet would be too much to wish for: Branson v BA in an airborne head to head

BAe 146-100
6th May 2003, 04:25

I hope an ex British Airways Concorde will go on display at Cosford museum.

BAe 146-100

6th May 2003, 06:46
I should think that one will go to the new aviation museum in Bristol. The design of this, I believe, has just been approved by someone high up the chain.
Of course it won't be ready for a few years so it will have to be kept somewhere in the meantime - Filton?



Dr Illitout
7th May 2003, 21:59
A "Rocket" at Cosford would be nice but I don't think the runway is long enough to fly one in. Also perhaps the reason for R.B. wanting to by the aircraft is to paint them in his colours, operate them for a while, say they are too expensive and to put them in museuns in his colours!!!.

Whispering Giant
8th May 2003, 02:23
However nice it would be for a Concorde to be with the B.A collection at Cosford - this would not be a Possibility due to the fact that the a/c would be unable to land on the runway there due to it being too short and the obstructions on the approach path. The museum there had problem when the Vulcan arrived there in the early 80's when this only just managed to land there and that was useing a tail parachute and even then whilst taxying in it came off the taxiway and sank in the mud...


No comment
11th May 2003, 02:57
Does a 707 or VC-10 need more or less runway to land than a Vulcan as Cosford has them too? were they brought in by road?

Dr Illitout
12th May 2003, 04:35
All three were flown in but,the Victor was brought in by road. My Father did his basic training at Cosford. (before the dead sea phoned in sick) He says at the time there were concerns that the runway wasn't long enough for a Lincoln to land on. (Thats a big Lancaster by the way).

Shaggy Sheep Driver
12th May 2003, 05:23
We flew over Cosford yesterday. It looks quite short - I'd love to have seen the 707 arrival.

I remember once pre-flighting a 172 on the Manchester south side when that existed. A BEA aitrtours 707 landed on 24 and shot past us (about 2/3 of the way down) still going very fast. We ran out from behind the hangar to see if it stopped before the end; the engines were in reverse and I recall seeing the wingtips bouncing up and down in the turbulence from visible reverse thrust.

It turned off at the very end (not a 'fast turnoff') still doing about 60 knots!


16th May 2003, 01:06
I've been to Cosford many times, shame you can't go on board the airliners, like at Duxford (at least when I went..)

Apparently the 707 arrival was quite spectacular and was put off on more than one occasion to get more favourable wind conditions.

Going off topic slightly, it must be quite a sad event taking an airliner as graceful as as 707 on it's final ever flight. There was a link on a similar thread to this once upon a time to a pilot's tale of taking a DC-9 off on it's final voyage to the desert boneyard - anyone know which one I mean?

Shaggy Sheep Driver
16th May 2003, 02:13
I've been to Cosford many times, shame you can't go on board the airliners, like at Duxford (at least when I went..)

It's a few years since I went, but IIRC we could board some aeroplanes, including the 707.

I remember the interior of the Belfast was like a dance hall (in size, at least ;~)