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Oldjet Jockey
1st May 2003, 22:12
I've been tracing my family tree back to the time that they arrived in England with William of Normandy in 1066. I've not been able to find all of them but at an average of 4 generations a century there have been 40 generations since 1066.
As each person has two parents and each parent in turn had two I have worked out that since the year 1031 there have been 549,755,813,888 people involved in my development. Of these only 40 have been direct line male ancesters leaving a number that is eighty seven times the current world population. Just think how this number will increase if taken back to the time of Christ.
I find this an amazing situation. Can I realy be correct? What do the mathematicians amongst you think. (Current world population estimated at about 6,290,000,000)

OJJ

tony draper
1st May 2003, 22:17
Yeh, we don't have to go back very far before we start running out of enough ancestors to go round and we have to share, just shows, we are all related
Bye cousin. :rolleyes:

BALIX
1st May 2003, 22:30
Blimey, what a lot of relatives. Good job they are nearly all dead as it would cost a fortune in Christmas cards.

Anyway, your mathematical model assumes that all those 549 billion people are different but of course you only have to go back a few generations to find all the ancestoral branches intertwining again. (Only one generation in some remote US communities if we believe what we hear...)

In fact, there's a pretty good chance that your current spouse/bed partner is a twentieth cousin, three times removed.

Kwasi_Mensa
1st May 2003, 22:58
As each person has two parents and each parent in turn had two I have worked out that since the year 1031Only 1031? My ancestors, called Mr. & Mrs. Paranthropus Boisei living near Timbuktu, go back roughly 2,5 mio years ago....

Chaffers
1st May 2003, 22:59
Very unlikely that you could trace you family history back unless you have a very rare name (but bear in mind that Surnames only came into existance for commoners several generations after the Battle of Hastings) or some connection to nobility.

blaireau
1st May 2003, 23:07
Of all the humans ever born, about 13% are alive now.

Surnames generally fall into four categories:
1) Patronyms- Johnson etc
2) Occupations- Thatcher, Smith etc
3) Places of origin- Inglis, Scott, Fleming etc
4) Nicknames based on behaviour or appearance

tony draper
1st May 2003, 23:36
Must have been a simple search for you OJJ, not a common Norman surname JetJockey int. ;)

Seriously it is a facinating hobby, and a amazing amount of Geneological info on the WWW.

Hey Kwasi, I thunk old Paranthropus went the way of the dinosaurs, thunk we was all Australopithicines or Homoerghasta now. :cool:

PlaneTruth
2nd May 2003, 00:03
Old Jet,

Your forefathers (and mothers) have done well, as have mine.

Don't forget to factor in the super volcano and it's supporting evidence in the mytochondrial DNA mystery.

In case you haven't heard....

A certain lake in Indonesia was being explored a few years back. (The name escapes me but Saba comes to mind.) This lake was some 50 miles across and had never been explored underwater. The geologist who examined the lake floor quickly realized it was a volcanic cauldron: He was swimming in what must have been a collossal volcano. Core samples confirmed this. Furthermore, core samples over the debris field away from the site revealed the extent of the explosion. It was the largest volcanic eruption that we know of in history. What was Mt. Saba literally vaulted skyward in a cataclysmic blast. The fallout created a "nuclear winter" like environment for several years greatly diminishing sunlight, killing plant life, and dropping temperatures by many degrees creating a near ice age. This caused widespread decimation of all life forms 60,000 years ago.

Meanwhilem in the States, a team doing the human genome project puzzled over beers at lunch: The mitochondria in each human cell mutates with clock-like precision. The grad students pondered that if they logged all known mutations, they could track backward in time to Human One. After receiving grant money, they embarked on the catalog of mutations.

In only a short while it was obvious that the numbers were not adding up. Based on the number of known mutations, the number of humans on this earth dwindled to a paltry million or less --about 60,000 years ago. It should have been many times that much.

The connection between the two events was made when a friend of a fellow of the geologic research sat in on a speech by the genome project and connected the two teams. The findings are unmistakeable: A near extinction event occured only 60,000 years ago and only those in the very mid-temporate climates survived. And, further reasearch has indicated that it was not the first time this has happened and it will not be the last. The next super volcano is expected to blast out of Yellowstone National Park in North East Wyoming in the US. Evidence of the cauldrons growth under the park is telltale with lakes moving as the terrain height climbs under pressure. Computer models indicate that this blast will erupt into the prevailing winds which will decimate the breadbasket of the US. Some forecasts are for ash and debris in New York city, a good 1200 miles to the East. When the eruption will occur is unknown. Though smaller than the Indonesian eruption, that it will occur is certain. The effects on the world population will be horrific.

Most modern countries will survive mostly intact with food storage technology. The third world nations will bear the brunt of the damage as the nuclear winter will render most crops toast for a year or more. Millions in China, the Middle East and Africa will not survive.

Lets hope we are ready when the time comes. Our offspring some generations forward will be challenged with survival unlike any problems we have ever faced.

Good luck to you and your progeny.

PT:ok:

Kwasi_Mensa
2nd May 2003, 01:17
Is that so Herr Draper? Maybe that's why my parents always called me special :confused: and I've certainly no Ozzie accent.

Oldjet Jockey
2nd May 2003, 20:32
Thanks for all the replies especially about the big volcano bang.
All of this has got me thinking about DNA. It seems certain that DNA from the direct male line will be brought forward through the generations, but what happens to the DNA inputs from all the other billions of inputs from far removed ancesters. Can this in any way modify the basic DNA. I'm puzzled.
Tony Draper is right, there weren't too many Jet Jockies around with old Bill the Norman. Incidentally as I was researching the family history I found out that the Normans were not real Froggys, but were Danish rapers and pillagers that had stolen the virginity of French maidens and then set up home in the north of France. They did the same sort of thing in the part of England where Draper comes from. We are probably true cousins in that case!!!!!:O :O

redsnail
2nd May 2003, 21:43
In mammals, only genomic DNA has DNA from the male. Mitochondrial DNA is all maternal.

Mitochondrial DNA is bloody interesting to study. It is both highly conserved and mutating at least 10x more rapidly than genomic DNA. So geneticists can tell the species history and where it's headed from it.

I used to study it to determine rock wallaby species. :D

seacue
2nd May 2003, 22:38
Hey PlaneTruth, interesting post but -

Many of us think Yellowstone is in NorthWESTERN Wyoming.

Also - New York would have to move to Chicago to be "a good 1200 miles" from Yellowstone.

I. M. Esperto
3rd May 2003, 02:59
For thise in the USA, I have found that the Mormon Center in SLC is very helpfull. They have a Geneology Center and are very good at tracing ancestors.

The less common the name, the easier it is to trace. I discovered I was a Viking!
(explains a lot about my attitude)

tony draper
3rd May 2003, 03:50
Plane Truth, I thought the Bottle Neck theory postulated a human population that had been reduced to a few thousand at most ,not a million,the human population of the earth at that time even before the Eruption, may not have been much more than a million.
One thing that puzzles me about bottle neck, does the elapsed time since the event allow for the three main different racial groups to develop, or were the different groups all represented in the surviving population?.

reynoldsno1
7th May 2003, 08:20
For thise in the USA, I have found that the Mormon Center in SLC is very helpfull. They have a Geneology Center and are very good at tracing ancestors.

Yes, they are, and that's one of the problems. The International Genealogical Index is basically a compilation of research done by Mormon church members - it is a requirement that they do this back at least 4 generations (I think), so that these ancestors can be inducted o the church. The trouble is, this research is not always very accurate - so if anyone is thinking of using an LDS Family History Centre (and they are in nearly every country in the world), make sure you gain access to the source information a nd not rely solely on the IGI

Tricky Woo
7th May 2003, 20:21
This makes me think of the small blob of goo that was my ultimate ancestor about 4 billion years ago. It was also your ancestor, but unlike yourselves, I take care to celebrate it's memory.

Poor Goo had an untimely death when an especially powerful ocean current swept it away, but fortunately (for me) it had managed to divide a few times before then.

Goo, 4,000,000,000 BC - 3,999,999,999.999 BC. Survived by 100% of the life on Earth. RIP.

TW

tony draper
7th May 2003, 21:10
We should concider ourselves very lucky Mr Woo, weird fossils found in ancient Canadian shales show all sorts of strange critters, including one that is our ancester, apparently it was the only one with a proto backbone, if that critter had become extinct,and one of the other survived and we had evolved from that creature, we might be slithering round now with sails on our backs, eyes in our arse, and a mouth on the end of a ten foot tentacle.
:ooh:

Tricky Woo
7th May 2003, 23:50
Put a stolen DVD player under that tentacle, and yer have a perfect description of a Scouser.

TW

answer=42
8th May 2003, 07:47
assuming that OJJ's ancestors are all different (i.e. the same person does not occur more than once in his family tree) and that he has only British ancestors, then you only have to go back to about the year 1450 to find that the entire British population is busy preparing the world for OJJ.

drop the first assumption and you can imagine the scene:

Squire: Wilst thou marryest me?

Maid: Nay fair squire. I mustest declinst thine hand. Mine sister (cursedst be her name) is alreadyst an ancestor of OldJet Jockey. Mine Mitochondrial DNA must ne'er appearest twice in OldJet Jockey's family tree or this thread wilt be doomed.

answer = 42

reynoldsno1
8th May 2003, 10:19
OJJ will also probably find he is heir to a vast underwear empire ...

bluskis
8th May 2003, 22:59
The theory is that we are all descended from a mitochondrial 'Eve', and a mate of said Eve.

So the maths of going back up the ladder multiplying by 4 each time must be incorrect.

The trace should perhaps be limited to the provider at each step of the genes you now possess.

Ozzy
8th May 2003, 23:16
You also might want to maintain some anonymity as to certain relations. So to a certain Mrs. Teal, now Mrs. Teal, if you're looking in tonight, this is for 15 pounds: and is to stop us from revealing the name of your LOVER IN BOLTON!! So, Mrs. Teal, send us 15 pounds, by return of post please, and your husband Trevor, and your lovely children Diane, Janice, and Juliet, need never know the name... of your LOVER IN BOLTON!

Ozzy

Biggles Flies Undone
8th May 2003, 23:25
We don't pass moral judgement - we just want your money ;)

Tricky Woo
9th May 2003, 00:11
Strange, the various churches have made a multi-billion dollar industry out of passing moral judgments and snaffling the money.

You'll never found your own religion, BFU.

Hmm, Wooism has a nice ring to it...

TW

Biggles Flies Undone
9th May 2003, 00:17
Trickism is probably closer to the truth ;)

Tricky Woo
9th May 2003, 05:09
Do not speak so lightly of Wooism, BFU.

Otherwise, my followers will rescue you from your unenlightment. They will lead you down the path of righteousness. Salvation will be yours. Run to the light, BFU, open your eyes and heart to the ultimate truth of Wooism. Yea, and verily ye shall seek and find redemption in mine words. Ye shall follow mine footsteps, and rejoicing and redemption shall be yours!

Look into my eyes... look into my eyes... look into my eyes...

TW

p.s. That'll be 100 for the spiritual consultation. Paypal will do nicely. If yer fail to cough up, my followers will, er, spirit you away for a spot of spiritual reprogramming in a cellar.