Psychometric Testing...

[JetMouse]

Having read through many of the questions on this forum, there seems to be many questions repeatedly asked:

Integrated or Modular?
At which school to you do your ppl – (europe or us/s africa)
Which Distance learning school – will it stay in business?(!)
Who do you do your CPL/IR flight training?
How many hours do I need?
Can I get a job once qualified?
Should I instruct?

Now there are many schools out there to satisfy most if not everyone’s taste and at the end of the day a CPL/IR ATPL (F) can be achieved with motivation and mountains of cash or a lovely sponsorship if you’re fortunate enough...

However the crux of my post is that the one thing everyone has to do is take many psychometric and personality profile tests to either get a sponsorship or a job...

So my question: Is there a school which is qualified (by qualified I mean has trained psychologists who have airline recruitment experience – if they exist!) - to give psychometric and personality tests under supervision and most importantly give qualified feedback, from which you can see your strengths and weaknesses and therefore act accordingly?

Because it seems to me that you can do all the training in the world however if your personality is not what the airlines are looking for (and you don’t get told what it is they're looking for) then getting a job is going to be made even more difficult...

Ps
With the above question I don’t mean the GAPAN tests - which having taken (and done very well thank you very much!) I think are an essential part of becoming a commercial pilot as I was prepared to bin the whole thing if I had done badly - because as the women says before you start the tests (she is a trained psychologist) if you get an average or poor score there is a distinct probability that you will struggle throughout your entire flying career - the decision however is ultimately up to you as to whether you want to enter a career field in which you (may) struggle...
But believe me it’s better to know before you go to the bank!!

[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: JetMouse ]

[charles_auty]

JetMouse,

I've just taken the "Morrisby" and "CPI" psychometric tests with Pilot Assist (www.pilotassist.com)- I am awaiting the results - they were administered by a recruitment officer from one of the UKs main airlines and I am sure that if you get in contact with Pilot Assist they will be able to let you know more! In the meantime - keep your fingers crossed for me!
Cheers

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Hmmm. I am a fan of Psychometrics. Read the following as background reading - there are other good threads in the Wannabes Archive:
http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=72&t=000005

The only real way to use such testing is to exclude the marginal applicants and not to 'pick the best'.

I am slightly concerned that PAC are using such instruments for commercial gain. I do hope they are accredited appropriately and using qualified staff as the INTERPRETATION of test results is not to be trifled with.

There is no such thing as the 'correct' personality for the airlines. Trust me - you'll find every kind of person on the flightdeck.

Psychometrics are very very poor at predicting things like compatibility for job roles. It is very very powerful at predicting things like ability to absorb training. HOWEVER, I've seen quite weak students get themselves through courses with good grades by sheer determination and hard work. Similarly I've seen gifted but complacent or lazy students get a rude awakening.

The only tests I recommend Wannabes try and do is perhaps the RAF Cranwell tests under either the auspices of GAPAN or the RAF. These really are the 'gold standard' worldwide. The BA ones are pretty relevany in terms of psychometrics and they will give feedback.

Good luck,

WWW

[JetMouse]

WWW

When I took the GAPAN tests I was told that they aren’t meant to be a stand alone gauge of your potential flight ability but are effective in conjunction with psychometric and personality tests - would you not agree with this?

When you had your interviews did you have to take many psychometric and personality tests? Do you just answer the questions honestly hoping you would have what they are looking for or have you learnt a “method” for answering them?

Also do you feel having a good GAPAN result on your CV makes you more employable? Or would it only do so if it was accompanied by good 1st time passes for the ATPLs and CPL/IR flight tests?

I have an interview in the next few weeks with PAC – so I shall ask who marks their psychometric tests and let you all know...

JM

[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: JetMouse ]

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Having sat tests does not help your employability.

There is no method for the personality aspects of psychometrics but practice can often enhance the maths/verbal reasoning/puzzle solving measurements.

GAPAN are being responsible in their advice.

WWW

[CAP509castaway]

Charlie Boy
Can you check the web address for pilotassist as I can't find it .
Cheers :p :p :p

[charles_auty]

The address is www.pilotassist.com (http://www.pilotassist.com) - I've just tried it to make sure!

E-mail me if you want their phone number.

Cheers

[captainbirdseye]

WWW

You say the BA tests are "relevant" and RAF tests the "gold standard". I find this interesting as I have sat the RAF tests twice and I got a marginal score each time. In the debrief after the second time I was told that I would never ever make it as a RAF pilot or a commercial pilot. I then took the BA tests did rather well and got to the final board.

BA and the RAF obviously know what they are looking for as both have low dropout rates in training.

But what do I make of it, as the feedback gained from the two sets of rather similar tests seems conflicting.

Thanks

CBE

[ 02 September 2001: Message edited by: captainbirdseye ]

[scroggs]

Despite what you may have been told, the RAF and BA do not look for the same qualities in their potential recruits, although they use similar methods to assess them.
It's not too difficult to understand why; the qualities required of a Harrier pilot, operating on his own in a very fast-moving, high-risk environment do not necessarily square with the safety-first environment of the airline pilot. That's not to say that the same person couldn't do both jobs (many airline pilots are ex-fast jet), but there are elements of the ideal candidate for each job which might exclude them from the other. This can obviously change with maturity!
I would no more trust the RAF's judgement on your fitness to be an airline pilot (no, military transport pilots are not doing the same job) than I would BA's judgement on your fitnes to fly a Tornado.

[CAVU]

Just want to say something to all the guys out there who have been told by RN/RAF BA etc that, because they have failed the aptitude testing, they will not make pilots.

This is absolute nonsense. I have taken these tests twice and passed twice, so I'm not an embittered candidate, but I was already an instructor when I went to Cranwell and was absolutley disgusted to hear, during the pre and post test briefings, the flight officer explain that if you failed you were "genetically not ment to be a pilot". Of course, there are some peple of whom this is true, but only a few. Generally, very insensitive and inaccurate information from an institution I, for the most part, greatly respect.

For those of you that have failed (and passed), bear in mind that these tests simply provide an INDICATOR of how "trainable" you are. They can only measure your natural abilities (to an extent)and provide absolutely no indication of how much detirmination or "effective" intelligence you possess. I have flight instructed for two major airlines and can tell you these are vital to success in flight training.

This is not to advise that you disregard these tests entirely. If you decide you are still committed to flying, procede with caution. There are some people that do find flight training very challengeing and, for these people, it is fair to say that they are unlikely to be successful as PROFESSIONAL pilots, as it may take them many hours to fly to the required standards.

In modern airlines you are required to pick up the knowledge and skills to fly a modern jet, fast or big in a relatively short amount of time. For example, American Eagle gives their candidates just 9 sim sessions to learn to fly the jet, which is not long if you have been flying a 172 for a thousand hours or so. You've got five times the the speed and much greater complexity.

For those to whom it is apparent that they are not cut out for proffesional flying, there is still an entire field of highly enjoyable recreational flying.

To reitterate- a fail on these test absolutely does not mean that you will never be able to fly.