Aircrew on Fire Duty??

[Pylot]

At present I am fighting a 'war' as part of Blair's forgotten Air Force out here in the Gulf. When I get back I, and my crew, will be on fire duty! Talk about a waste of taxpayers, it cost millions to train us and were off to do a job that requires 2 days training.
Surely there must be a better way to do business! Any other pilots doing this on ac other than the Nimrod or have we won the lottery again?

[mutleyfour]

In 97 the whole of 9 Regt AAC did it in Derbyshire.. reckoned they were the most expensive fire crews in the counry with 8 pilots on each goddess!

[ChristopherRobin]

Ahhh diddums! Reckon you're too good to be flexible do you? If they get truck drivers from the RLC to do it, why do you think you should be immune from serving your country in this way? Fragile fingernails?

The phrase "self-important prima donna" inexplicably springs to mind.

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Sorry, no sympathy from this corner. You wear the uniform, you do the job.:)

[gijoe]

'

G:rolleyes:

[BEagle]

Presumably the point being made is that to come straight off war ops only to go fire-fighting seems a somewhat harsh homecoming. Not so much the fire-fighting per se, more the timing?

[Zoom]

Since one half of the fire strike problem is the politicians (the other half being the firefighters), I can think of 650 wasters with time on their hands, currently loafing about in the Palace of Westminster, who might fancy a stint on the Green Goddesses themselves. And while I'm at it, I hope that Blair insists that his sons join the Armed Forces. That should cut down on the number of nugatory wars that he starts.

[Reichman]

I wouldn't mind having a go at this fireman lark. Seems good fun; Driving around really fast with the siren going, jumping red lights, and all the girls fancy you. Wouldn't like to do the pulling dead bodies out of burning houses bit though.

Brum brum. Neenar neenar.

[Pylot]

Christopher Robin and Whipping Boy's SATCO,

Your comments show you have completely misunderstood the point of my post. This is not a prima donna issue, simply one of common sense. If you had spent 4 million quid training someone to fly aeroplanes, why then waste that valuable asset on fireman duty. I can't put it any simpler for you. An RLC driver probably doesn't need 3 years training. The fact that the war is almost over must mean that there are personnel available who would be more appropriate for these duties - reservists perhaps. Must dash - I have a plane to fly and a war to win!

[brit bus driver]

My brother's next-door neighbour is a fireman. He works soooo hard that, not only has he totally renovated his house, he's managed to squeeze in building an extension for one of the neighbour's too.

Meanwhile....."You chaps, jolly good effort in the Gulf, what. Now, cut along to stores and change the old respirator for a smoke mask and a natty yellow helmet and be back here in time to be shipped off to some luxurious barracks for a few weeks. Wife & kids? Plenty of time for that once the firemen have got their pay rise...."

:*

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

:bored:

------------------

Fly Safely

[Big Tudor]

Mike Jenvey

The words "Green Goddess" and "Speed" are not often contained in the same sentance. With a top speed in the reagion of 40mph and acceleration that a T-52 would be embarressed with, there is more chance of the crews being rammed from behind by a Robin Reliant than being killed in a high speed crash.

[Scud-U-Like]

Or you could get 50mph+ out of the GG, by going to shouts with the water tank empty, as 3 Para did in Essex. The thing won't work properly until connected to a hydrant, in any case.

I was as happy doing my bit towards defeating the firefighters as I was towards defeating Saddam. I ended up on Op Telic and Op Fresco at the same time, which could have been tricky, had the fireshirkers called a strike during the war.

Anyway, enjoy. It's good fun, especially if you end up as crew, in a busy area.

[Reichman]

Pylot,

Have you forgotten what the GD in GD/P stands for?

Go on, let me drive. :E

[Compass Call]

Pylot,
When I was taking the Queen's shilling I was always on fire duty, so what's new?

CC

[rivetjoint]

Officer/airman first, aircrew second isn't it? Presumably if terrorists had broken into your base and started shooting at YOU during Telic you'd have wanted someone else to return fire?

[Pylot]

Reichman - I am well aware of what GD means.

rivetjoint - No. You have missed the point entirely. It is simply a criminal waste of taxpayers cash to pay someone the money we're on to fight fires, when you have spent millions training them to fly aircraft. Its that simple! It would probably be cheaper to just give the firemen the pay rise! Guarding of DOBs is a separate and completely unrelated subject altogether.

[10forcash]

Or maybe its just a more productive use of you time that would otherwise be spent sitting on your @rse.....:eek: Given that service personnel are paid regardless of how busy they are, isn't the taxpayer just getting his money's worth??

[Scud-U-Like]

Pylot. Then make a stand for the poor taxpayer. Whilst deployed on Op Fresco, return to the Treasury the difference between your pay and that of the average squaddie. That'll show 'em! :ok:

[akula]

Yup it is a waste of the taxpayers loot some of the aircrew have been doing op fiasco since the start, thats about seven months. When the CAS spoke to the poor bu**er's he suddenly gave Harold Station a Paddington Bear hard stare:mad: :mad: :mad:


always ASSUME never CHECK

[jayteeto]

The fact is: you might have been expensive to train, but you are just another asset. In my early pre-commissioning days I was a 'fireman', and now? Why not? You should do what you are told.
PS Staish, if you are reading this....... I didn't mean the bit about being one now.......

[Farfrompuken]

Pylot:

You chimp! Can't you see that it's for your benefit?

You get home from a war to relax into the loafing lifestyle that these so-called firefighters lead.

You'll be building your own house next...;)

[maninblack]

On a lighter note I was discussing this thread and similar info with Wifeinblack who said

"They may have cost millions to train but I bet they can't fit a kitchen as well as a real fireman."

;)

[G fiend]

Here you go boys...the (civvie) tax payers point of view!

It is a waste using expensively trained and qualified aircrew to speed(sic) around in Green Goddesses.

It is also criminal that service personnel are used to try and do a very highly qualified job with f/all training (takes 4yrs to become a qualified fireman- government standard not union rules).

What really p**ses me off is the fact there wouldn't have been a firemans strike if the government had actually implemented one of their own reports (the phoenix report- called for a £1.2b investment in the fire service- "needed to counter dangerous inadequacies in service provision for this country, and to meet projected needs in the future".(quoted from report) This report was issued after 9/11 and included that in it's planning models.

I don't think you guys realise how much you have in common with firemen...

The firemen are there for when we need them and when we don't they train for when we do...sound familiar?

The firemen are very often using outdated (and in some cases dangerous- eg Breathing Apparatus) equipment to save money...sound familiar?

The firemen are expected to put up with death and injury as a part of the job, but not shout about it...sound familiar?

The firemen's pension and death in service arrangements are crap...sound familiar?

The firemen's pay lags behind their equivalents (from a technical/risk and training point of view) -NY firemen get US$ 59000...sound familiar?

I'm not a fireman, in case you're wondering... but I did some research, 'cos I initially thought the firemans strike was wrong but now....

How little does this country value those who are in its service...seems to me if we are not careful we are going to end up with the services that we deserve. (boy, then our insurance premiums will be a doozy!)

I wish all servicemen many, cheap beers, a quiet life and decent kit.

An ex Flying Officer (resigned and not bitter, unless it's Tanglefoot)

PS did you know...65% of all firemen are ex service personnel?

[rafdaz]

Why don't they call up all the ex-servicemen who have joined the fire service and are still on reserve, to cover Op Fresco. Then the firemen can cover their own jobs! I bet the strike wouldn't last long after that was brought in!! :D

[Scud-U-Like]

G fiend

Whatever we may or may not have in common with the firefighters, one thing we ain't got in common with them is, we don't abandon our duty when we're unhappy with our working conditions.

Members of a so-called disciplined, uniformed service, upon whom lives depend, have no business going on strike. Firefighters who strike are a disgrace.

[Zlin526]

And now, an (ex) firemans view!

I spent 15 years employed by the busiest Fire Brigade in the country, London.

I left because of the sheer boredom, and because my Fire Tunic was replaced by one in salmon pink!

Too many accountants trying to run a Brigade on a shoestring, and far too many braindead pikey's pretending to be firemen. Many of the union reps were dodgy, brash northern monkeys, landed a cushy position, with lots of time off doing 'union business' and inciting the membership brothers with strike calls every five minutes. The political aspirations of the left wing union reps had to be seen to be believed. One is now a Labour MP.......

Never broke a fingernail, but sustained a few minor burns and bruises and did witness a fair few traumatic things and an awful lot of dead bodies! With the Health & Safety laws now in force, the job is nowhere near as dangerous as it was in the 1940's and 50's.

Lots of cruising up and down the High street, gawking at the ladies, as well as hours and hours of sheer boredom sitting around the fire station (Not a bit like "London's Yawning"!). Got to drive a big red fire engine around Central London a lot, making lots of nee-nar & woo-woo noises, causing much confusion amongst the foreign drivers. Also, the said big red fire engine was absolutely superb for shopping expeditions...

And then to bed. No fire calls = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Tea drinking & cheese sandwiches galore, as well as spending hours in the station gym looking in the mirror to see how 'Macho' we were.

Lots of free time for flying on your days off, as well as lots of free time for a spot of 'part time work' at the local airfield!

Get your ATPL, study on nights while you sit around waiting for something to happen.

Left for a life of luxury in the wonderful world of aviation.......and more tea drinking!

IMHO, the Fire Brigades Union are taking the pi$$ out of the British Public. When firemen can do a real days work like nurses and teachers, then they can demand a payrise. All the time they work 4 days a week, sleep on nights and sit around the fire station all day, they will never get a 40% rise. Relying on the 'London's Burning' effect, and thinking that the public love 'em, ain't going to get them any more pay..

P.S. My salary on leaving was perfectly acceptable to me, the Mrs and the kids, especially with the amount of time off I got, and the ability to do another job. What do I miss? Not much. I miss the cameraderie of my colleagues, but thats it.

[YellowBelly]

Pylot - I fully share your views, and as for the ground-pounders reminding us of what 'GD' stands for I would suggest they think about the new aircrew structure ie: Flying Branch (GD is for all wg cdrs and above) and Career/Professional Aviators. As I understand it, all designed to keep the majority of aircrew in aircraft - not fire engines! Worth emphasising that I was similarly appalled while passing through South Cerney enroute warmer climes to see Paras on fire duty. Overall, it all comes under the heading of 'Front Line First' - if we're having to use the sharp end for fire duties, then we're definitely in trouble.

[Scud-U-Like]

YB

There has been much shuffling around of Fresco personnel (of all arms, regiments, trades and branches) during Op Telic. And yes, we are 'in trouble', deploying to the Gulf and having to train and cover for a fireshirkers strike. I'd have thought that was pretty obvious. Exceptional circumstances require exceptional measures, like aircrew being deployed on Fresco. Get over it.

[The Gorilla]

I wish Aircrew would stop whinging about their life,
you have the ultimate choice. Accept your lot and get on with it OR leave and go to pastures a new.
:*

Nee hah the next train arriving........

[Biggus]

S-U-L

Aircrew have been deployed on Op Fresco since the very beginning, not just in response to the subsequent need to cover Fresco and Telic simultaneously!


10forcash

Using the logic of your own comment all military personnel should be in work EVERY day when they are not on leave - after all the taxpayer pays them every day!! No weekends, bank holidays, shift pattern down days etc, off. If there is nothing else for them to do perhaps they could dig holes in the ground and then fill them in!!! I don't know if you are in the military, if you are, given your apparent feelings, perhaps you would like to volunteer to go in and work ON EVERY SINGLE DAY YOU HAVE OFF - WITHOUT EXCEPTION. I am sure if your policy was applied across the board we very quickly wouldn't have a military.

[teeteringhead]

And of course, if a Fresco Fireman, be he squaddy or cloth-moth wearer, should pay the ultimate price on duty (ie - snuff it), he will be entitled to the same death-in service benefit (one-and-a-half times salary) as if he'd been killed in the war.... so that's all right then.

Nooooo it's not ...... the firefighter's death-in service benefit is FIVE times salary (as is the police I believe); and of course that's five times a bigger salary than many on Fresco..........

Amazing the trivia you pick up on resettlement briefings.......;)

[flyboy007]

Maybe as a sign of their appreciation, the fireman could invite all those involved in FIASCO around to their recently renovated houses for dinner, cooked in their new, re-modelled kitchens!Providing of course they can get the time off from their second jobs!

[Scud-U-Like]

Biggus

Fair enough. I'm always happy to hold my hands up when I've got my facts wrong.

I can't help thinking, however, that certain individuals are being ever so slightly precious about being dicked for Fresco. Call me cynical, but I don't think I've ever seen so much championing of the taxpayer in one thread. ;)

In any case, it may all be academic soon, if the fireshirkers go along with the FBU and accept the latest offer. Let's hope so.

[JimNich]

Being an Op Fresco fireman is a lot like making love to a beautiful woman.
Before you mount your Goddess you’ve gotta carefully roll your hose out and make sure your standpipe is upright and positioned correctly. Depending on the condition of the pit you might have to put a sheath on the cock (but always take this with you when you pull out as these are in short supply).
Fit your hose firmly into the Goddess (being careful to get the right hole) and give it a good couple of screws, press the tit and pretty soon your hose will go really stiff and you’ll be gushing at the nozzle in no time.
She may be old but treat the Goddess correctly and you’ll be pumping away all day.

[higthepig]

If kipper fleet pilots' cost that much to train, how much do other pilots cost, could you go for 2 Tucano pilots for the same price and save someone else having to go?