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Manee
10th Feb 2001, 21:03
Definately wish to succeed in comercial aviation and become a great pilot!
My only question is how to tackle the next year of my life, which will affect my entry into the field.
I have attended a few flying hours but do not hold a PPL. I am 18 (which will rule out many sponsorship schemes), and am currently in the final 4 months of my A-levels (Maths,Chemistry,Design-Tech+ CAD). Therefore around June/July I will be free to start training. I applied to ucas for City Univ, Farnborough & QMW, in which i was successful in all three and have accepted their offers(all aviation related). Though i feel that this would be a less preferable route than an airline sponsorship. My preference has led me to feel that University (degree) would be my Back up option, and that primarily i would like to enter a airline scheme. Though i think that sponsorship applicants need their A-level results, which i will recieve in mid August. This allows a few weeks before my "back up" degree courses start.
Should i do a degree?
Should i take a risk and bank everything on recieving sponsorship?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

grace
11th Feb 2001, 00:41
response emailing its way to you
hope it helps

Pilot Pete
11th Feb 2001, 00:57
If there's one thing for sure in this industry it's that you can't bank on anything!

So, you put all your eggs in one basket and wait for sponsorship. What happens if you don't get it? That's not being negative, just realistic.

My advice would be, go to uni, make sure you go to a uni with an Air Sqaudron, do a subject that you want to do, fly at the tax payers expense, apply for sponsorship when the time is right and if it doesn't come up you have a degree, lots of hours and the ability to go through the self improver route (assuming your degree gets you a reasonably paid job).

You are still very young by aviation standards with time on your side. Enjoy your uni years and the flying that goes with it.

Good luck

PP

David Johnson
11th Feb 2001, 04:11
Hi,
I have to agree with everything that "Pilot Pete" has said. The aviation industry is dynamic and ever changing. True, you don't need a degree to be a pilot but there are many benefits of getting one.

Firstly, you have added security. Security in the sense that if everything in terms of sponsorships falls through you still have a qualification that will get you a reasonably paid job in other areas (it is a fact that graduates get paid more). It often amazes me on PPRuNe the naivity of some people; the seemingly arrogant attitude that they are going to end up on the flight deck without much difficulty. It is self evident by reading people's posts the sheer amount of effort that is involved, the motivation and often dispair that is experienced, this is a seriously competitive field and that should not be overlooked. To get accepted by a sponsorship scheme you have to have a "special something" - something that stands out. We have seen many people on this forum with excellent qualifications, flying experience and indeed many excellent qualities get turned away. This could happen to you.

You need to think now, at this stage, a plan of what you want to happen and what you will do if something goes wrong. For example, say if you find out that for some reason you are medically unfit to fly - what do you plan to do then? Will A-Levels get you a decent job?

One thing that I have found interesting is the fact that many of the sponsorship companies are now actually stating a lower age limit of 20. Why is this - why not 18 like BA and some others?? From this I would gather that may airlines want people with a greater experience of life before coming to work for their company. What they are saying is that they want graduates (with the various qualities that they have) or people that have been in a working enviroment for two years after their A-Levels, thus having gained more experience of life.

So, what qualities are graduates perceived to have? Unlike at A-Level where you are generally "spoon fed", at university you have to manage your time and have the motivation and determination to suceed. No-one is there to make sure you turn up for lectures or to check that you are doing your work. The same qualities are needed to suceed in a company, if you decided to do that for two years before applying. When being considered for a sponsorship scheme the interviewers are looking for someone that would be an excellent representative for the airline but also someone that can get through the commercial exams. This is not to be underestimated as the work load is intense - just mention Perf A to anyone.

As "Pilot Pete" said, there is also the opportunity to join a University Air Squadron where you will get some of the best tuition found anywhere.

I note that you say that you have few flying hours. Have you thought of trying to get any flying scholarships. I have written a bit below about the Air League and the RAF Flying Scholarship schemes.

The Air League

I have found as a member of The Air League that it offers people like yourself invaluable information and the opportunity to try and attain a flying scholarship. To be eligible for the flying scholarship and all of the other benefits you must become a member. A very helpful service that the organisation offers is that if you write to them with your current status and aspirations - they will give you advice on how to obtain your goal - plus ideas on how to become more "involved" in the aerospace industry.

FLYING SCHOLARSHIP: 15 HOURS

RAF Flying Scholarship

The RAF Flying Scholarship is worth applying for when you are 16 years of age. With a RAF Flying Scholarship, you could receive 20 hours of free flying at a civilian flying club. The scheme allows young men and women who are keen on a career in the RAF to discover the excitement of flying without having to make any commitment for the future. The training is in light aircraft at an approved civilian flying club, and normally includes about 8 to 10 hours' solo flying, plus full instruction in ground subjects.

FLYING SCHOLARSHIP: 20 HOURS

Also, a very economical way to get some more flying experience is gliding. It is important to realise that no-matter what you fly - the same professionalism is needed. Gliding is a superb introduction to flying and the same key skills are present as in other forms of flying. You will learn how to work as part of a team,trust,professionalism and the ability to make well judged decisions in less than perfect circumstances.

As "Pilot Pete" said-you are still young. True, you want to be an airline pilot as quickly as possible and a sponsorship scheme place is best way to get it-it is what everyone goes for. However, if you cannot get a place and you still have the desire you will need to finance it yourself and you will need a well paid job to do that, hence the advantages of a degree.

What I am saying in conclusion is that you should optimise your chances of getting a place. You could get a degree, have the security and still only be 21. The upper age limit for BA is 26. Very few people get in at 18 - very few indeed.

Best of luck, and don't hesitate to contact me if you want any information. No doubt some people may disagree with what I have said, but it is my opinion, and it is a subject that I thought about myself.

Regards, Best Wishes and Good Luck



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feetnkneestogether
16th Feb 2001, 17:29
MANEE, I agree whole heartedly with David Johnson. You can never knock education. I know you're itching to get in there and fly those jets ......but aren't we all.

You're a young lad and time is definitely on your side. As DJ above says, Airlines are looking for a little maturity and wisedom. At 18 you haven't 'done' a great deal to make you stand out from the crowd. If you go to University you can develope yourself and your worldly experiences. Why not travel a bit. University air squadrons will have expeditions every year and some of those will look good on the CV. Airlines don't want 'flying bores' who have nothing else to show for themselves. Have another interest or hobby. Why not attempt to learn a language? Sounds daft but if you take a step back and make a long term plan you have loads of time to add strings to your bow.

I haven't got to the applying stage yet as I've gone down the self-improver route. I'm a language graduate and have spent many years as a TA Paratrooper. Both these facts I'm sure won't do me any harm on the CV.

You've got bags of time. Live a bit. Go to Uni and always have a plan B.....C,D,E & F........

..soft landings !

Send Clowns
17th Feb 2001, 01:40
Lots of excellent advice above, so only a little to add.

Look carefully at sponsorship schemes, full sponsorship from someone like BA may be the only worthwhile ones if you can pay another way. They force you to go to a certain school, doing an integrated course. This can be £10 000 dearer than the course I did, and may only give you £20 000. In one case they did not even say how much I would have had to give back during my 5-year lock in, and I would have had to have garaunteed £40 000 to cover some line training if I did not make it to right seat. Needless to say I didn't apply.

Go to university if you want to do the course. Don't just go because it is what everyone does, or because people expect you to, or because the government wants more people to. Too many people (myself includeed) just go because that's the next step.

Finally, whatever you decide, best of luck! :)

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'Me here at last on the ground, you in mid air'

JimNich
17th Feb 2001, 03:15
Send Clowns,

What a breath of fresh air your views on University are. Its such a pity that "University" now seems to be the panacea of all educational ills. Everyone just accepts that its now the logical next step after A-levels and anyone who has never been must somehow be some sort of retard.

And what of poor Manee, maybe he just doesn't want to go to Uni. Maybe he wants to get out into the real world and start earning a crust in his chosen profession some five years before his counterparts who chose to cop out to "higher education".

Manee, unfortunately the guys are right. If you want a real shot at these sponsorship schemes then a degree is de-riguer I'm afraid (sometimes two). Excuse my ranting but there was a time when leaving school and getting an apprenticeship somewhere was a really good opportunity (you learned a trade, earned a wage and were not a burden to your parents or the state) and stood you in good stead for whatever else you chose to do with your life (I did my FI course at Perth last year and on the BA sponsored course that was going through at the time was a real nice chap who started life as a BA engineering apprentice).

Good luck with the A-levels Manee, don't just go to Uni 'cos there's nothing else to do, have a PLAN!