Security clearance

[FougaMagister]

Hi all - I'd like your opinions on security clearances. The references needed for an "airside" pass used to cover 3 years' employment, but since 09/11, they have been increased to cover the past... 5 years!
Even before, I used to find the system very naive - who knows wether the person providing the reference is him/herself trustworthy? Now that it has to cover five years, it can create a whole host of problems (it certainly does for me) if you happen to have worked for more than a few companies. I have to make copies of the references form to cover for my previous cabin crew employers, for the job centre, for the flight schools I have attended, for any period in between two jobs (no matter how short), and to explain all that to ex-employers in foreign countries, for whom the concept of such references is completely... alien (no pun intended) - and for whom therefore it goes at the bottom of the priority mail list (provided they are allowed by local law to give such information).

In a number of Continental countries (eg. Scandinavia, France, etc), the procedure is to ask for judicial records from the Justice ministry and sometimes to surrender (temporarily) your passport so they can check if you've been to some... "dodgy" countries. Seems fair enough to me, and way less naive and time-consuming than the DETR approach.

Also, instead of increasing the length of checks post-09/11 to five years, the DETR should look deeper, not further back...

[FormerFlyer]

When I flew for MON I had to go back 10 years, or until full time education, whichever was sooner. Same applied at EZY.

Perhaps only a LTN thing though, as was based there for both. So nowadays doesn't seem so strict...however I do think that there should be some other element introduced to the security pass application process other than being able to prove you were at such and such a place over the last ten years.

I'm sure it would be quite easy to introduce more rigorous checks however at what financial cost? That's when the beancounters get busy with their scales and work out the cost-v-benefit ratios!!

And who polices the checkers? oh my head is hurting now.....


cheers ;)

FF

[pinni]

I totally agree, the authorities should look deeper and not longer!

I personally know that none of my personal references were contacted. I still got my pass. I have flown before, this could be the reason. But still not acceptable. And like yourself I took lots ot time and effort to go back five years. And had to provide references for a 2 day break between jobs!!:eek:

[pilotwolf]

My BAA pass required 10 years and 2 references as well as complete work history for the period.

Think they had to have known you for minimum of 5 years too..

Both mine were/are respectable, reconisable members of the community and both were contacted and both had to confirm details in writing.

Think you will also find it is the responsiblity of the employing company to check the reference and sign a declaration that this has been done...

[myflybhx]

Well i think there has to be another way as it take's so long to get passes sorted! I have provided all the information required nearly 8 weeks ago and will be at the end of my training course in 7 days and still no pass! But I can't really complain as there are people who passed there course who have been grounded for over 2 weeks still waiting for theirs!:sad:

[kenoco]

I recently heard a big rumour that a lot of the crew recently recruited from here and in Spain were unable to get security passes for Stansted due to history problems so Ryanair issued all the crew with passes from Dublin,even though the crew are all based in Stansted,London.Then when this failed some of the crew,with no security clearance,were issued boarding cards by Ryanair to board the flight as pax but operate as crew for the whole day,and now apparently this has stopped so the new crew have been issued passes from Skavsta in SWEDEN,even though they are based in London,is this legal in England if the above is true???I find this crazy with all the present goings on in aviation security.Would the UK CAA know about this if it is true????Merci a t. xx

[Xenia]

Kenoco,
I find hard to believe what you said ....
Just wondering if all this is just some of the thousand stories going around Ryan :confused:
What do you mean by "history problems"? I think you mean the impossibility to check references in UK.
I flew in the UK few years back, didn't live there for years before ... and even so I had, like everybody else, my security pass as was there for a little while and previous employers within the EC were given as references.
Something else to point out is the fact that I think that no airline could possibly be willing to get in troubles for their employer giving innapropriate security passes....
By the way, there's another thread going on about the same topic, let's merge them ;)
Ciao

[FougaMagister]

Salut Kenoco - haven't heard that story about FR, but it wouldn't surprise me since:

1/ at a recent interview with Islandsflug I was told the training would start within 2 weeks, for 1 week (exp. c/c only) - that's too short for BHX airport to process airside security passes, so they would have come from Dublin where the agency doing the recruitment is based - or perhaps from Iceland (!)

2/ Foreign airline crews, with foreign security passes, do have airside access in UK and elsewhere

3/ British airports do not seem to use the same requirements when issuing security passes - maybe a unique, centralised procedure wouldn't hurt.

4/ What's the point of a given airport's security dept. starting the references procedures all over again when one happens to get a new job on the same airport? Bloody waste of time, effort, and money!

5/ When I did flight training in COV, I wasn't asked for all these references, yet as a student pilot, I had airside access on a commercial airport...

Let's face it: no procedure is 100% foolproof and there has to be some built-in flexibility. As for crew being grounded waiting for their pass to be issued (MyFlyBHX's reply), I think BHX airport is responsible for their loss of earnings flight-pay-wise.

(Il est paradoxal d'être traité en suspect lorsque l'on a travaillé depuis des annés dans le transport aérien.. Parfois on a l'impression de se battre contre des moulins!)

A+ l'ami(e)

[kat1]

i, along with most of the rest of my training course are still waiting for our id's almost three weeks after we recieved our wings.Each department in the company seems to tell us different things about where in the process our id's are and the departments don't really seem to talk to each other which i suppose is typical in all big companies.we also had to go back 5 years but i agree about the character references, most of us just used our friends as we couldn't really remember what we were doing on a certain day in 1998 when we wern't at work so we just briefed them on the dates.Not very good for security but at least we thought it meant we would get our id's quickly!
all this waiting is making me more nervous and after the excitement of wings day i feel a certain sense of anti climax and help..i've forgotton everything!!!!