No Jobs

[FI]

This time last year I was banging out the CV to everyone I could think of. Guess what no job so I did the FI course and now I get paid below the minimum wage.

This year CV goes out with 500 more hours on it and the same response, PFO. I thought I could get something this year but it seems no one is taking people like me. That is people who are not 'conected' to the airline.

So, beware what the schools say, yes, I took it all in when I handed over my cheque for the CAP 509 course (and MCC). All you wannabes, you must understand how hard it is to get a job flying anything bigger than a PA28.

Think hard before you give up you well paid job to follow you dream. It can turn into a nightmare.

I'm back to the whiskey and to check the weather to see if I eat tomorrow.
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

[This message has been edited by FI (edited 06 February 2001).]

[BIG MISTER]

Pour yourself a good measure and then remember tomorrows another day !

Who knows the guy or girl you take flying tomorrow could be just the 'link' your looking for.....oh yes Daddy works for BA !

Chin-up and dont let the buggers grin you down. I exspect a posting from you just like Pilot petes very soon

Good Luck ! ! !

[seadog]

I've just got my first job - you may have seen the thread. Less hours than you and no FI rating and only 2 months since I completed Perf A. The secret? Well nothing special but it does help if : a) You know someone - try and make contact with pilots already flying with the airline of your choice. b) a good c.v. - you need something clean, easy to read and that sells your attributes aside from the qualifications that everyone else has anyway. c) Follow up your c.v. with another letter or phone call every six weeks or so....
Good luck - it can be done.

[VFE]

FI,
Keep an eye out for the PPRuNe mentoring scheme that is under construction at the moment.

Finding the first job is something that will interest all wannabes at some point. Useful tips and advice from the established pilots is always welcome.
I am yet to start a CPL course but the question of finding a job afterwards is high up on my list of concerns.
The 'in - phrase' appears to be networking.

Best of luck, VFE.

[Funky Munky]

It's a damned hard slog getting your foot in the door, or that's how I found it anyway.

I was in the same predicament, CAP509 under my belt, FI rating and hours increasing rapidly, CV's going worldwide and still the ever so pleasant bugger off letters. It took me 20 months instructing to get my first job, and lo and behold I got offered two on the same day!

Perseverance (I think that's how you spell it) is the key, just keep on writing, don't be choosy, you can't afford to be, take the first job you get offered, don't expect to get a jet, and if you do just count your blessings.

Also keep flying, make sure you are remaining current and keep your IR valid.

Good luck and keep on writing, it's worth it in the end.

[BTB]

Take up professional rugby, or become a minority.

[FI]

What bothers me is all the schools are taking peoples' hard earned dosh and turning out 250 hrs pilots like me with little prospect of employment.

Big Mister quoted from Pilot Pete's posting, he had 700 hrs multi - how the hell do you get that? Most AOC operators require 700+ hours before taking you on.

So if you are selling you house to become an airline pilot beware, you have no idea how hard it is to get a job. Yes, some are lucky and you hear about them on these pages, not too many people post to say that they have failed.

Good luck all, I'm off to the pub with £3.52 in my pocket (another rainy day).

[BIG MISTER]

Where abouts in the Uk are you ?

[FI]

The pub is not open yet, bahhhh.

I'm in North London.

[BIG MISTER]

Sorry mate wrong end of town or I'd have got em in for you !

Why not give these Boys a call just for some pocket money until the skys turn blue ?

Basic wages 'Driving' but quite a giggle and you get to meet people and talk about flying...well how their flight was !

Titan Travel - 01293 437 406
Good company, friendly staff, flexi time,
and a little more cash on the off days !

[GJB]

FI - Keep your chin up. I know others who have been in a similar situation and got there. One thing is for sure - if you didn't do the CAP509 course, you wouldn't even be in the running, so give yourself a pat on the back for getting this far. Furthermore while instructing is poorly paid and not what you aspired to - it is a constructive way to spend this interim period.

[DeltaT]

In reply to the response just above:
Do CAP509ers get taught an attitude like this as part of the course?!

[RVR800]

... I got 1000 TT / 100 ME any chance .... ?

HR : If only you had some more multi-engine
or urrgh turboprop, turbine time the MCC
or some genuine airline experience would be
better have you worked multi-crew ?.. left
it a bit late .. age commensurate with experience ? type rating ? Get some time on type and call us back uurgh on the other hand dont call .. we may call you .. actually we dont have the budget or the time for people like you ...

PUTS THE PHONE DOWN

Have that agency come up with the goods yet
Tracey ?

'eeergh No'

What was that guys name again ..where's that
damn cv... not that 509er there far too arrogant .. that high hours
self improver yes that's the ticket

Only joking

[FI]

RVR well said - I think.

I have a question for you, when do you stop being a 509er? I did the upgrade course but now I have 700 odd hours, am I a self improver yet?

[RVR800]

It costs a lot in time and money
either way

The traditional view is that CAP509
courses benefit from intensive professional training at high cost to get FO material from low hours

The Self improver route is traditionally
cheaper but slower and the pilot has
achieved competence through experience
manifested in higher hours

But the gaps much narrower under JAR
and the airlines seem to need the hours
from some self-sponsored 509ers as distinct
from the sponsored girls

I really don't think it matters
too much as we all pass the same exams and flight tests does it?

Its a right old game int it?



[This message has been edited by RVR800 (edited 08 February 2001).]

[FI]

True

[Almost Mile High Brummie]

sounds like you are a bit cheesed off, and so would I if I had to spend my days flying a Warrior after parting all that money for your CAP509.

Out of interest, what school did you do your training with? Maybee this is a factor??

I hope that the job market will pick up, because I will be looking for one soon and I wouldn't like to be in the same position.

Good luck anyway, I am sure that something shall come your way soon

[FI]

I went to the (in)famous OATS. I don't think that is a factor. I passed all tests first time including the IR and GFT.

I have just failed to catch the eye of the airlines. I am just a Joe Bloggs pilot, nothing special, just run of the mill.

I have spent over 6 months perfecting my CV and I have been told that it is above average. I think I have yet to be lucky, that is what you need to get a job in this game, luck.

How many people are the airlines taking and how does that relate to the number of CPLs being produced? Any guesses on the ratio?

1:5 maybe?

Good Luck all.


PS Gusting 35 kts - another hungry day.

[This message has been edited by FI (edited 11 February 2001).]

[The mole]

FI,

I am beginning to think you have a point. I have a CAP 509 completed in mid 1998 + MCC + 500hrs. I now have an FI(R) and I am about to start instructing in the SE - in the process giving up a job paying over 40k a year. All I ever get told is keep trying and keep banging on doors and persevere - well I will instruct for 12 months and if nothing else comes up its back to the old job.

And if ONE more person replies saying it only took them 6 weeks to get an LHS in a 737 with 200 hours I will not be held responsible.......

[scroggs]

FI,
I appreciate how disheartening it is to have apparently qualified for a profession and yet to be unemployed, but to blame it on schools is unfair. All colleges in any profession only exist because the demand is there, and they only contract to give you the skills to carry out your trade - subject to you putting in the work, of course. They don't promise to get you a job, or to manipulate the job market in your favour. This is as true of law and medicine graduates as it is of ATPL graduates. It's up to you to get the job!
It's not enough just to send out CVs and hope for the best. First, you must decide which part of the aviation industry you wish to work in. Then you should learn everything you can about the companies that operate in that field. Make personal contact with people in those companies; ask to visit them - you'll be surprised how many will gladly welcome a visit. Attend the employment seminars that are regularly advertised here in Pprune and elsewhere. Join BALPA or the IPA as an associate member to get all their info on employment prospects in UK companies. Get your CV assessed by someone who understands the requirements of the UK industry and when you send it out, follow it up with 'phone calls to see what the latest situation is. If you do all this and you're still unsuccessful, you either are not sufficiently qualified (a problem, I know) or you are giving off the wrong vibes; you'd be surprised how many candidates give the airlines the impression that they are 'owed' a job because of all the work they've done.
Hang in there, and get all the advice you can - it will work eventually!

[FI]

Scroggs

You get me wrong, I am not having a dig at OATS, they did their bit and now it is up to me to do mine. The point I am trying to make to all those who are considering giving up well paid jobs on the promise of getting a smart jet job, is to think what will happen if it doesn’t appear. The end of a course is only the start of the hard work.

On these pages we all read the success stories and we get a warm feeling in our hearts, some may think, yes it can be done. The most significant point is that there are precious few jobs out there. Pilot Pete worked bloody hard to land his job, the sacrifice he and his family made was considerable. I am a few months behind Pete I’m sure, but all those with 250 hrs it is a long slog UNLESS you are particularly lucky. I can think of a few exceptions like Alvin’s Mate as an example.

As for my future, I will continue, I have gone too far to turn back now. All your suggestions are taken as they were intended. Do not underestimate the effort I have put in to my job search but, no one will give you a job unless there is a vacancy, I seem to be everywhere 2 days too late.

My time will come.

[lekkerste]

FI, reading your post brings back awful memories of the early '90's. I completed a 509 course and with 200hrs. was competing for jobs with lots of highly experienced jet pilots from airlines that had recently gone bust. I must say that the only thing that really kept me going was the fact that financially I had gone too far to turn back. Had I had the option of returning to a well paid job, as you do, the decision may not have been so easy. I am now in a fairly good job, flying 744's for a major company and the vast majority of my contemporaries have also done ok. There are though a couple who went back to their old lives, considerably impoverished for the experience. You seem to realise the amount of persistence required and I'm sure you'll get there in the end. Good luck.

[This message has been edited by lekkerste (edited 11 February 2001).]

[Bovey]

F1, Do not give up, you are almost there. A friend of mine was parachute dropping in London for over 14 months after qualifying and has accumulated over 500 rejection letters from airlines. He then worked for LATCC and was able to spread his contacts. After which he spent 9 months on twin props flying charters.

He now works for a major turbo prop outfit and is being interviewed next week for a major holiday jet operator. He has 750 hours, 300 M/E.

He has persisted, perservered, and committed himself 110% to work for an airline. He gave up a directorship of an I.T. business, BMW, everything to be able to sit in the RHS of a jet.

But he was prepared to do anything, go anywhere and now 2 and a half years after qualifying he is finally able to start paying off his considerable debts... and cannot quite believe it has happened.

Keep on going, stay incredibly positive, don't look at the hard bit inbetween just look at the ultimate goal and what you have do to get there.

Good luck

Bovey

[andymac]

FI - please e-mail me.