Future JAA member states

[FYWH]

Can anyone tell me, Firstly, the countries involved in the JAA, and, if there are any plans to invite other countries into the JAA.
Here in South Africa, the Authorities are/have incorporating/incorporated alot of the JAR's, and I wonder if this is in hindsight. Also, I find it difficult to understand why the JAA has acknowledged non-JAA establishment for their training only, but fail to accept the testing part of the licence.
Cell City,No Radar,Another bumpy flight

[rolling circle]

There are 20 full members of the JAA and 13 candidate members. Of these 33, 15 are also members of the EU and 7 have fully implemented JAR-FCL 1 (Belgium and Spain are expected to implement shortly). You can find a list of the JAA member states on the JAA website:

http://www.jaa.nl/whatisthejaa/jaainfo.html

The answer to the second part of your question is that the JAA have not 'acknowledged non-JAA establishments for their training'.

JAR-FCL 1 does not permit training for any JAA licence or rating to take place outside of the JAA member states (unless it is conducted by an organisation whose registered office and principal place of business is within the JAA). A proposed amendment to allow such training was thrown out by the JAR-FCL committee at their last meeting although the JAA committee have instructed them to think again.

Organisations in SA, Australia, the US and Canada that have been approved to conduct training for JAA licences and ratings have all been approved by the UK CAA, acting unilaterally and outwith the requirements of JAR-FCL 1. As a result, the remaining JAA member states have threatened to refuse to recognise JAA licences and ratings issued by the UK CAA based on training carried out in non-JAA states, calling into question the value of such a licence. Chances are that the licence, while having JAA printed on the cover, will be, in effect, a UK national licence.

Not content with a protectionist attitude to training, The JAA member states are making it as difficult as possible for other, ICAO compliant, licences to be recognised within the JAA. Non-JAA states' licences may be 'validated' by a JAA member state, for use only on aircraft registered in that state, for a period of not more than one year. 'Conversion' of non-JAA states' licences is not possible unless and until the JAA (not individual member states) reach an agreement with the non-JAA state. Talks between the JAA and the FAA began last year but quickly broke down and are not expected to re-start in the foreseeable future. The JAA has not commenced discussions with any other non-JAA state. It is expected to take at least two years from the start of negotiations before agreement is reached. Holders of non-JAA state licences should, therefore, not expect to be able to 'convert' their licence to JAA before 2003 at the earliest (assuming that talks were to begin/resume immediately).

Oh yes, the JAA have now closed the loophole that allowed people to gain a non-JAA IR and then convert it, with minimal training/cost, to a JAA equivalent. Unless you are the holder of an ICAO ATPL with at least 500 hours experience in multi-crew aeroplanes, you will have to complete the full, approved IR course. Expect the same to be true for all other licences and ratings after the next JAR-FCL committee meeting. Even if you do hold an ICAO ATPL with thousands of hours multi-crew experience, you will still have to pass all of the JAA theoretical knowledge examinations before you qualify for a JAA ATPL.

So the message from the JAA is that all non-JAA training, licences and ratings are totally worthless. If you want to work in Europe, start your training all over again.

[RVR800]

RC

As you point out this is protectionist
legislation

What mandate do they have for this?
Does it still come under the "..mobility of flight crew in the EU agreement..'

If this type of policy was extended into other professions one could expect a USA doctor to return to a European medical School to resit his exams if he moved
to the UK (for example)

Maybe this is next..

[FYWH]

rolling circle, Your reply demands a worthy thanks from myself You explained it as if you wrote the regulations, thank's for the info, it put's a whole new light on my future as a pilot.
As rvr800 indicated, that if it were for other professions i.e doctor, engineers etc the world would be up in arms.
Maybe, if i win the lottery (as if ) I might consider starting fresh in the U.K.
Thanks again.

cell city,no radar,another bumpy flight

[This message has been edited by FYWH (edited 06 February 2001).]

[foghorn]

RVR800,

Not a good analogy, I'm afraid: A US doctor applying for a job at registrar/GP level or higher would have to sit a UK Royal College exams to practice in the UK.

A UK doctor must also sit the US exams to practice at any level in the US, and would also have to sit their specialty exams to become a specialist.

UK qualifications used to be transferable to Oz/NZ/SA/Canada and vice versa, but many of those priveledges have been removed recently (apart from SA who are desperate for doctors due to the AIDS problem there).

It doesn't only happen in aviation, folks!