Serious Drugs.can He Make It?

[richie-rich]

hey guys
heres the scenario:
a friend of mine (older than me by couple of years) wants to take up flying as his career. He was askin me the other day of what are his chances of passing a class 1 when it comes to a medical. I couldnt give him ananswer then since I never had to worry about this by myself and dont know any pilot who has similar problem like my friend. What should my answer be to him?

Just to let you know, he was on weed for a while, but now wants to reform himself and do something constructive. Does he stand a chance?

I would appreciate your feedback on this. I really want to help him out in this.
Thanx

Richie Rich

[Spartacan]

-he was on weed for a while-

Sorry, but I wouldn't want a pilot like that in my cockpit. Whatever the medical issues are here he had an attitude that it was OK to do drugs which is totoally incompatible with an occupation where you are responsible for thousands of peoples lives.

I wouldn't be convinced that he would ever be completely cured even if he had been off the 'weed' for years. He might just do it again and then go flying a few days later . . .

Try something else please.

[christep]

Spartacan,

So how do you apply your reasoning to alcohol then?

[Hilico]

I thought the entire point was that he wouldn't mix "weed" and flying. Whatever this weed is doesn't sound as though it's in the same league as crack, heroin or LSD.

[Snoop]

Spartacan,

With the availability and the usage in today's society you must be naive to think that you have not already shared a cockpit with somebody that has smoked a bit of ganja at some point in their lives.

One of the driving programs on UK TV got somebody stoned and then stuck them on a driving course. He seemed to be safe, alot safer than the guy who drove pissed anyway.

It doesn't matter in my mind what you do. Just don't do before going anywhere near a flight deck.

If you are pissed, stoned, high on something else, dosed upto the eyeballs on over the counter or prescription drugs, fatigued, not feeling well or going through alot of personal stress - I would rather not fly with you either.

Drugs are drugs, added to which we can push ourselves so hard that we end up degraded our own performance to such a degree that we are not fit to fly for example fatigue, flying whilst ill etc

Spartacan - wake up and smell the coffee (but be careful it is a drug) There are way more worrying characters flying today than those that may have had a good time when they were at university and are now trying to build a career as a responsible, professional pilot.


riche-rich As for your mate. I don't think you get tested at medical. You could be tested at a company level. It comes down to the fact that nobody has done any proper research on the effects of weed - especially on flying ability. An airliner with 200 people in it is no place to be a guinea pig. If he wants to fly, knock it on the head. Otherwise he will just have to stick to getting high his illegal way

[richie-rich]

it has been couple of months now that he has refrained from ganja(weed). 3 months, i think. i am sure he has gone through the process where one realizes his/her faults and i dont think i simply can say, "naa, u cant do that."

does anyone know if they test it during class 1(for sure??)? Even if they do, would they be able to find it out if his last intake was 4-6 months back?

All i wanna do is help him out.

Thanx guys
Richie Rich

[phnuff]

I was under the impression that dope showed up for 6-8 weeks and after that, there was no trace that any test could find.

[AviLGH]

A widely spread misconception. In fact, unless you smoke regulary (read: daily) the standard test will come back negative after 3-4 days. If you smoke a lot it will take several months though.

While being stoned is unacceptable in the cockpit, previous marijuana experiences should not pose a problem if he keeps quiet about it. Most would agree that marijuana is the milder drug compared to alcohol. It is not physically addictive and while it is possible to, like any psychoactive substance, develop a 'mental' addiction, I've never heard of anyone being unable to quit smoking weed, even after very long periods of daily usage.

Besides it takes about six hours to sober up and flashbacks are extremly rare, if they aren't just another myth. Everyone should of course exercise caution - but *having* smoked weed in the past can't be disqualifying for a pilot career. Now if it was smack...

[Onan the Clumsy]

A slightly different question, but not off topic. (and no it's not about me).

What if you went on holiday to some place where marijuana was legal and you smoked some, then came back and obviously weren't under the effect any more but got selected for a random drug test which showed positive; what could happen to you?

Apart from the obvious lack of ability to see consequences (see, I didn't say lack of judgement) you did it legally and you were not under the effect. Could you be fired/fined/grounded/etc?


BTW, I passed my random drug test, though I had to guess at a couple of them.

[richie-rich]

thanks a lot, guys. this is great help :)

n e one knows about magic mushrooms? ( naa naa.just askin for the sake of it. i got my medical 1 :) )

richie

[Flyin'Dutch']

RR

Maybe the person in question should try to reform themselves a bit before going for something which could cost quite a bit of dosh. After all spending money on flight training would be a waste if the 'reformation' is not successful.

Drugs of addiction are usually used by people with an addictive personality and despite best intentions these habits are difficult to reform.

The funny thing about reading this thread is that some people like to compare drugs with alcohol use. Although there may be some (?sound) evidence that being a bit stoned makes you not less safe than someone who is pi$$ed as a fart when it comes to driving, I think that the gold standard has to be for people to be sober when driving their cars or aeroplanes.

Call me old fashioned.

FD

[phnuff]

AVIlgh - I dont claim to be a great expert and so will take your word on the number of weeks

Onan, the legality of where the dope came from is immaterial, after all, its legal to drink a bottle of vodka for breakfast, but if you were caught in a cockpit (or behind a wheel), you could still be done for it (and rightly).

On this kind of subject, I have often wondered how many people would be left on an aircraft if the captain's announcement went along the lines of '
'Good morning ladies and gentlemen, this is the captain here and I will be flying the aircraft to xxxxx this morning assisted by Fred in the right hand seat. After we finish our gin and tonics, we will be taxing out to the westerly runway and taking off before turning south en route to xxx. We will be talking to you later in the flight after the cabin crew bring in our refills and take away the empties. Until then sit back and enjoy our hospitality - I know we will !! '

[Onan the Clumsy]

phnuff - that wasn't my question really. I was thinking of the chemicals showing up on the test because the event happened several days ago, but the effect had worn off, thereby not compromising safety etc. And the activity taking place in a legal manner.

And in case anyone missed me saying it earlier, this is purely an intelectual question.

[phnuff]

Onan - I stand corrected - it is hypothetical.

I guess the parallel is what would happen if you turned up for a medical with too much alcohol in the blood.

[Re-entry]

Fly Dutch

Where do you get off thinking alcohol is not a drug. It is the most damaging and evil chemical known to mankind . All the illegal drugs pale into insignificance compared to the damage alcohol has done. ALL the career disasters I have witnessed the last 20 years have been due to alcohol abuse- many of them talented, bright young men.

Drugs and avaition don't mix
Alcohol is the NUMBER 1 DRUG
don't smoke weed and go to flight school- maybe you'll have a chance.

[Spartacan]

I found the following extract in an academic journal:

'Pilots may not act in command of an aircraft, or as part of a flight crew if they have a medical or psychological problems which would make them unable to meet the requirements for their current medical certificate. The use of any prescribed or non-prescribed drug that may interfere with a pilot's faculties and threaten safety also invalidates medical certification. A recent history or sudden onset of a medical or psychological problem are therefore covered through certification. In view of the stringent requirements for psychological fitness, a history or diagnosis of the following mental disorders or states automatically leads to initial denial of medical certification and consequently spells the end of any hope of acquiring a pilots licence:

1) Psychosis.

2) Affective disorders (including bipolar disorder)

3) Personality disorders (especially where there has been evidence of overt acts of violence)

4) Substance abuse (within the preceding two years) including positive drug test results, misuse of substances that would interfere with the person's ability to perform the duties of a pilots, or record of drink / drug convictions.

5) Neurosis.

6) Self-destructive acts.

7) Disturbance or loss of consciousness.

8) Transient loss of control of nervous system functioning without satisfactory explanation of the cause.

9) Epilepsy or convulsive disorders.

10) Progressive disease of the nervous system.

As I read it the appropriate course of action would Be to stay off the narcotic for at least two years and then go for the Class 1 medical. Honestly declare the problem and let the professionals resolve the issue.

[Hawk]

Thanks for your interesting posting Spartacan.

If you still have the article, can you post the reference?

Cheers
Hawk

[richie-rich]

Dear Spartacan
Thanks for your reply. No, my friend was never into Narcotics and as i said, all he had was some weed and "mushies." Weed issue has been discussed in details. I still am waiting for someone to resolve the mushroom (mushy) issue.

Thanx
Richie

[Spartacan]

Hi Richie-Rich,

I'm sure we all respect the concern you show for your friend. Perhaps you should tell him that cannabis and magic mushrooms are classed as narcotics and that he needs to be clear of them for two years before seeking medical clearance to fly as a commercial pilot.

Quite apart from the public safety issue it wouldn't be good for him to spend money on flight training only to lose his licence and job in later years if the drug problem occurs.

Issues of insurance liability also have to be thought about. I.e. if he were to lose his licence due to an undeclared previous drug problem would he receive loss of license benefit?

If you are still thinking that cannabis and magic mushrooms are not narcotics then I suggest you do an internet search on the subject or perhaps ask a doctor.

Regards,

Spartacan

[Snoop]

The issue of drugs - legal or otherwise, will always be one that creates allot of comment and differing opinions.

The only real way for these arguments to be solved is with extensive scientific research on the effects of drugs, legal and otherwise, over both the long and short term, with differing levels of usage and across a good mix of population.

Without this research then it is down to the individual to form their own opinion. Now we are back to square one. Without conclusive research you are forming your opinions off the back of somebody else’s, which means that whatever your views, you could be wrong.

I somehow doubt that this sort of research will happen, so we are back to trying to be sensible.

With the weed, if your friend is no longer smoking and hasn't done for a while. Then he will pass his drugs test (should he be tested) and because he has left his drug dabbling youth behind he will not be worrying about getting tested in the future because he doesn’t do illegal drugs anymore. So there is no ongoing problem for anybody to be worried about.

The mushrooms I know little about other than they are way more psychoactive than weed and there is the possibility of flashbacks. As Spartacan says try doing some research on the net.

To get you started click on this:

http://area51.upsu.plym.ac.uk/~harl/mushies.html

Cheers

Snoop

[richie-rich]

hey Snoop & Spartacan
thanks a lot for this info. All I am trying to do is help him out and show him a better way of life.

He told me couple of days back that he has consumed Mushroom intotal three times in the past 12 months. Now, I honestly dont know what the consequences would be if he takes takes the Class 1 now, but I have asked him to give it sometime and go for it later.

I havent been checked for drug usage when I took medical 1 F.A.A. I also have a Class 2 for C.A.S.A and even here, I dont remember giving them blood sample other than some urine.

Anyways, as i said, I will ask him to defer the medical and take it atleast 6-8 months from now. Any other advise you gotta give him?

thanx again for sharing the info
Richie

[Basil]

If the guy's going to give up illegal substances I really don't consider it necessary to wait for two years. Give it a few months but be sure you are not going to mix it with flying.
The only drugs Basil's done are the usual nic & alc and bad bast*rds they are too! Nic's extremely addictive & alc's got poor ol' Bas into all sorts of trouble :yuk: - must pack it in one day :=

[richie-rich]

Gidday Basil
Merci for your post. He "isnt" goint to give up drugs. He already has and it has been couple of months now. Then again, I asked him to take the medical in 6-8 months so that his blood is somewhat "free" of those drugs and chances to find out about those in his body is minimal.

Thanx again for your valuable advise. I really appreciate your help in helping me to assist someone else' life.

Richie

[Spartacan]

Hi Richie-rich,

My best advice would be that you continue to care for your friends interests. Help him get medical treatment as and when he needs it.

There's a reason why he has been taking drugs and he really does need to find that out.

Thanks for being a good friend to him,

Spartacan.

[richie-rich]

Dear Spartacan
I view flying to be a noble profession. So, when someone asks me to help him out, I would be more than happy to do so, provided it's within my capability. :)

Basil, please check your pvt message, Sir.

Oh 7 Spartacan and Snoop, do you guys know if they "do" check for presence of drugs in Class 1? I was never told that they would test that when I did my Class 1 and all I had to worry about was my Blood Pressure. This is my last question and I wont bug you guys with any other question. I promise. ;)

Must not forget to thank you guys. This really helped me , trust me. Super Duper people you all are.

Richie

[Snoop]

As far as I am aware, and please anybody correct me on this if I am wrong, The urine test is there to detect the presence of protein in the urine. I think it may be something to do with checking for diabetes, but I would not bet on it!

[richie-rich]

so..medical after 6-8 months.what do ya say?
Richie

[Spartacan]

See my original post:

>>4) Substance abuse (within the preceding two years) including positive drug test results, misuse of substances that would interfere with the person's ability to perform the duties of a pilots, or record of drink / drug convictions<<

[Snoop]

Not for me to decide.

[Northern Chique]

Snoop....

the very simplified basics of mid stream urine testing for the Pilot medical

The urine sample is commonly used to detect Glucose Levels ... theoretically, any glucose or Keytones in the urine indicate an unsuccessfull attempt by your body to fully use, remove or store basic sugar componants in your body... It should not show up in the urine.

the second reason is for Protien levels... most protiens are large molocules and shouldnt pass through the kidneys... so a positive reading indicates the kidneys arent doing their job effectively.

Now the reason could be as simple as dehydration or a mild urinary tract infection, the ladies can have positive readings if menstrating at the time of testing as blood contains protiens, through to an early indication of worse kidney problems for which the doctor will order further testing for.

Urine can also be used to check for a range of drug metabolites (the componants or byproducts of other substances put into the body and broken down).

Definition of a Drug....

noun.. any substance that affects the structure or functioning of a living organism... (Oxford Concise Medical
Dictionary)

Commonly cannabis sativa among others are checked. Most "recreational" drug metabolites for example will be eliminated at the first urination after ingestion. This of course is dependant on the mixing agents (very few street drugs are pure), the timing of ingestion, injection or application.

Rohypnol is a very useful drug as an anticonvulsive, but a side effect is temporary amnesia, thus it has gained popularity as a "date rape" drug. It is metabolised quickly and its metabolites dissappear with the "morning pee". It makes it very hard indeed to identify if a drink has been spiked.

Long term marajuana use from a very early age has been linked to various adolecent psycosis conditions, depression, and given the strength of the varying varieties available today are up to 10 times more potent than a few years back. Flashbacks are apparently more common and again, it depends on cutdown substances.

The mushrooms are highly varied, and different responses within the species and subspecies are just as varied. Cooking, drying, processing and mixing all produce variations in response. Flashback similar to those associated with LSD are not uncommon. For those in Cane Toad infested areas, the toxin produced by the glands on the wartlike glands on a toads head, is also an hallucinogen... as is nutmeg...

Alcohol is the most widely abused drug of choice... and the results of abuse are both costly and terrifying.

I wouldnt like a captain or co pilot who has an unresonable addiction to any substance... flying with a coffee addict who has missed his / her coffee can indeed be an ordeal! :p

[richie-rich]

Northern Chique
Thanx for ur reply. I hope you have gone through other posts, but my friend told me last night ( i was trying to make him understand a lot of things) that he has consumed mushies 4 times in total (four!!!) . Would you call him a mushy addict or a "casual" drug addict? all consumed in the past 12 months.

Waiting eagerly to hear from you.
Richie

[ratsarrse]

I think that regular use of cannabis is incompatible with professional flying. Alcohol use is reasonably quantifiable - we tend to drink recognised measures and there are rules of thumb that exist to tell you roughly what period of time to allow for the effects to have dissipated. The same rules of thumb don't exist for cannabis. From personal experience, I think that the effects of cannabis last longer. You can be reasonably confident that a few beers on Saturday night won't affect your performance on Monday morning, but can you say the same of a few spliffs smoked on Saturday night?

Having said that, it is important not to lump all illegal drugs together as some kind of life-destroying evil bogeyman. I and many of my friends have sampled reasonable quantities of all manner of illegal drugs over the years and we all enter our thirties as responsible professionals. A few of us remain unhappily addicted to tobacco.

[Snoop]

Riche Rich

Forgot to mention that they also do a blood test, this is for Haemoglobin, which I think is to check that you will stop bleeding if you cut yourself at altitude, although it would look like Northern Chique is the person to ask!


Northern Chique,

Thanks for that. When I had mine done it was dipped onto what looked like pH paper and run through a machine - results in seconds! Happy to say my innards seemed to be processing fine!

[redsnail]

richie-rich,
Without trying to sound harsh but I would suggest to your mate that he goes without any chemical comforters for 12 months. Why so long? From what I am reading he seems to have an addictive personality and sadly, that is not commensurate with flying. 12 months would be more than enough to flush any greeblies out of his system and more importantly, see that he's mentally tough enough to go without.
I am no medical expert, QDM and Northern Chique are the ones to chat too. (NC is also a professional pilot, don't know about QDM).
It's a good thing he wants to straighten out and I hope this gives him the goal to achieve that.

[richie-rich]

thanx guys.....i will pass this onto him. i think 12 months is a reassonable time for someone to "wash-out" such artificial comforters from one's body. however, when i had my class 1 done, they didnt ask for any blood sample. I have a Class 1 F.A.A and that didnt include that in the list.

neways, thanx again for ur replies. :)
Richie

p.s- reasonable* :}

[Mac the Knife]

Ritchie, "..i think 12 months is a reassonable time for someone to "wash-out" such artificial comforters from one's body."

I think that you have missed redsnail's excellent point. It isn't to avoid detection, but to see that he/she can deal with life without grumbling about missing mind-altering substances. If he's worried about it then he's misusing. If he can't happily do without then he's an addict.

[richie-rich]

Mac The Knife
Thank you for your post. I suppose we all agreed on the point that he has realized that he has been doing the "dont do it" things and stopped all sorts of drugs couple of months back. He then came to me couple of weeks back and i immediately posted the topic here at pprune. I am not in doubt about his intention to change himself, druguse-wise. He surely havent touched that ever since such realization came to him.

I didnt want to bother you guys with this issue anymore, but it now appears that i am headed towards quagmire as time goes by. Are you suggesting that the A.M.E wont bother that he has drugs in his body and also that he wants to change (should he/she find out about it, god knows how) or would the Doc refuse his medical the very instant he finds out about it on grounds of finding illegal drugs in his body? I am sure our Paramedic Chique might have something to add in this.

Knife, thanx again for ur reply. take care guys.
Richie

[Mac the Knife]

After 2/12 clean there will be no detectable drug residuals in his blood or urine. If he/she has no convictions for possession and has not consulted any medical practitioners for worries/symptoms of misuse/abuse he has technically nothing to declare. Nevertheless, if he wants to take up flying as a career he needs to come to the absolute understanding that further chemical use is not an option - now or ever again.

But on the basis of what you tell us, it sounds as though there's a lot of concern here and I think quite rightly. I think your chum would be well advised to phone Narcotics Anonymous and arrange a meeting with one of their very able counsellors to discuss the whole matter.

[slim_slag]

Best advice already given, but as we are on the subject, you can detect these drugs in the hair so that historical record can go back some way. If you are going to go hairless, don't forget to shave yer nuts.

A flatmate of mine used to do pre drug-trial medicals back in London. My mate would screen for all sorts of stuff, but if cannabis was detected (and you cannot hide it with these Internet teas and the like) they would ignore it. Anything stronger would be disqualifying.

Quite a few years ago, it might have changed since.

[Northern Chique]

RR - Im probably not the best person to ask in so far as my opinon on recreation drug taking is somewhat biased, given my line of work... however I cant see the point in putting something in your body by choice which may over time destroy it.. fast or slow...

Thre following comments are purely my own summations and gleaned from experience around Australia. Take into account when drawing your own conclusions, your friends environment, your social habits and the society you live within.

But Ive found one thing holds true any where in the world ... consequences are always paid in the end..

For your friend... honesty is always the best policy... tell the doc, and the doc will and is obliged to keep an eye on him. The mushys are always a worry, as I said earlier, different species, different times of the growth cycle all play a part in the end effect produced... Occasional pschycosis is found, thus may rule your friend out of the medical parametres.. but this is an issue to take up with the medical officer. They would be much more familiar with the range of species and results of the various mushies available in your area... the gold tops and blue angels mushies here are well known for producing hallucinations, whereas some others are much more systemic depressants than hallucinogens.

They also are destructive on the various internal organs which have to break down the various componants and chemicals in the mushy, and the occasional person has developed an allergy to fungi which can be life threatening. There are a few objective papers written on the mushy topic.

As an emergency bush medicine, Im sure they have their place as does the infamous marajuana.... (for example clinical treatment and pain relief for chronic pain and terminal disease patients) .. Used in the correct manner, its a low risk, benifical natural medicine.
Where I do get upset, it people hiding behind results after a nasty outcome.

Alcohol abuse is the worst offender.. in most court systems it seems on the surface, if one gets out of control on booze its justifyable and often a person ends up with a lesser penalty.. This illustrates another point.. often worse penalties are handed out for illegal drug use with the same result.

So illegitimate drug use is often frowned on more than the legal varieties even if used less often.

I would put your friend into the social recreational user class.. and sometimes, these are at higher risk of something going horribly wrong. These are the guys and gals who either buy a bad line... or cut with something nasty or have been mixing their highs...

Two months without a mushy isnt long in the scheme of things.. now if youd said two years.. that would be different matter...

If your friend has you, and his whole support network effectivley set up, then he should do just fine. But I cant stress enough, he has to change his social habits... often a slow afternoon... a few quiet beers, a bit of friendly happy chat and music will put him in the mood for another happy / mellow fix, depending on his habit / reaction drive...

What I am refering to is the pleasurable re-enforcing of good time + weed or mushies = better time...

He may just be able to generate the same internal chemical response by self achievement.

I believe the true addict has become dependant on the chemical comfort response gained from drug use. The body in turn tolerates the toxins, and becomes adaptive.... take it away, and it goes into combat mode... or your classic withdrawal... A true addict is self destructive and is controlled emotionally and often financially by their drug of choice. Their social and family (if they are around) become victims of the abuse even though they may not be particiating in the consumption of it.

By the sound of it, just change the social habits and you may have the social drug use pinged for good in which case he may end up with a full or conditional medical (if you have such beasties there) or a conditional delay..ie wait for a bit.. It wont stop him studying though!

When he attends the medical he will get a thorough check up into the bargin, and will probably find out he is a healthy, normal person... with choices...

[richie-rich]

gidday Northern
Thank you for the latest post. If he does go to an AME and confronts about his addiction to him, would he be given the medical? Likely not. Anyways, I have told him to stay out of medical for another year. He hasnt done anything foolish for the past few weeks and like you guys, I would want to give him more time to be sure that he "has" changed and that he isnt missing out on his "once-favorite" drugs.

Addiction is something that never got into me, Thank god. Oh hang on, just coke.love it when its chilled! :cool:

Take care guys

Richie

[cyclic flare]

I think that regular use of cannabis is incompatible with professional flying. Alcohol use is reasonably quantifiable

Whats the difference.

Go out drink 5 pints of lager. Get up the next day sober go flying.

Smoke 3 joints. Get up the next day sober go flying.

Can't really see the difference as long as you are sober no difference

[Northern Chique]

RR - The final decision is obviously up to you and your friend....

but firstly, would talk to an aviation qualified doc, and find out the best course of action to take. You dont necessarily have to do the whole medical first time around. The docs arent only there to do pilot medicals... they are there for the pilots health.

Four mushies huh, mmmm still have a chat.... he may be no worse for wear... and from what you have said.. I wouldnt call him an addict.... I maybe should have specified what I was refering to....

Addiction... a state of dependence, produced by habitual taking of drugs. Strictly speaking, the term implies the state of physical dependence induced by such drugs as morphine, heroine, and alcohol, but it is also used for the state of pschological dependence, produced by drugs such as barbiturates. Treatment is aimed at gradual withdrawal of the drug and eventually total abstination. (Oxford Medical Dictionary)

When I mentioned "User" it is more in reference to a social use... like someone would enjoy dip with crackers at a party... because they like the taste, in this case the effect of the substance ingested.

If your friend finds he gets along with the doc, keep him as part of the team. I know of a few pilots who werent shy about having a joint or two on a weekly social night, and go flying drunk, and half stoned at 5 - 6am the following morning. They knew they could get away with it. (Police road cars usually knocked off 5-30 to 6am to finalise paperwork before 7 am shift change...)

A certain well known theorist came up with... "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"... it doesnt only apply to the laws of physics.

As a general rule of thumb, these guys were social users by definition, but highly irresponsible by habit. One of those young chappies is rather dead. Died in a drink driving accident. So you see, its not the drugs which are the focus of the main issues, it all comes down to his attitude toward himself, the law and his fellow humans.

[richie-rich]

Gidday Northern Chique
Another big thanks to you for your informative post. I will forward a copy of the thread to him tomorrow. I suppose I have lenghthen the post and trust me, I didnt want to bug you guys with this. I am truly grateful that you have taken the time to reply to my questions questionssssssssss)

And last thing. Northern, he was nevery dependant on Mushies. He could go without it anytime he wants. Lets just hope that the guy grows up and does something constructive in life.
Richie

[Crossword]

Richie, your friend needs to be a bit careful asking an AME for advice about his drug issue. The AME will take notes and if your friend subsequently then does a medical through that doctor there will be a record of that conversation. Notes taken by an AME as part of a aviation medical do not have priviledge.

Have a look at Madinthehead's posting on Career prospects after anti depressants thread to see how easy it is to be caught up in the system. I'd have thought discussing your drug problem with an AME would be tantamount to putting your head in the lion's mouth.:hmm:

[missinglink]

There are lots of guys who do weed, and lots more who do booze. The trick is not to get caught. I don't condone either.
I think your buddy should go for his medical. Chances are this will not show up on his test after 3 months.:O

[R T Jones]

Personally, the majority of drug use at all has implications on your ability to do any job. Even a few aspirins to shake a headache can result in an adverse reaction. Obviously this is an extreme case but worth a mention. I don't drink or do drugs of any kind and that’s my personal choice, I like to think I can enjoy my self without drinking and taking drugs. Another plus is when you’re out late with your mates and they have been drinking, the next day you just feel tired, they have a hang over ;). Just my two cents.