Give me back my money.

[Flying Farmer]

Could do with a bit of advice.
Returned early from a certain Training establishment near Orlando.Only problem now is getting back my logbook and money.(security deposit+cancellation fee!!!!)
Anyone got any ideas or had similar problems.

Live life its not a practice run.

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[farrari]

Are we talking about XXX?


Just be a little bit circumspect about using names, might be an idea if you use e-mail to discuss it.

[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Pop (edited 04 February 2001).]

[Bear Cub]

I would suggest that you copy all letters to the CAA - for no other reason that from the 1st July all USA based schools will have to be "approved".

Part of the application for approval is to prove financial standing...with any luck letters like yours will show the CAA that having lots of money does not make a reliable flying school.

The other point I wonder is - assuming your 'complaint' is genuine and you are prepared to declare your personal details - why not tell your full story and let us all learn who not to trust in the USA?

Why stay covert but expect a satisfactory resolution to your own problem - somebody else could suffer the same fate (or don't you care, provided you have all fellow ppruners help you get your own money back?).

I've always hated the idea of schools demanding a security deposit - what security do "we" get in return?

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Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

[Flying Farmer]

Bear Cub

The CAA and FAA are going to be spoken to in due course.
What I really needed to know were the problems involved legally in persuing a transalantic case.
Having spoken to the administrators of this forum I think it would be unwise for me to air the problems encountered or name the organisation involved.
My only advice is look elsewhere.
Ref money up front,with VTR tax relief ending last Aug some of us had to pay money up front.
Lastly I do care that other students don't make the same mistake,but the owner of the FTO in Florida is adament that he is not to be written about.Threats of legal action I think.This last point best taken up with PPrune admin.

[BEagle]

I have recently been made aware of various practices at a Florida based training organisation. Amongst other failings, these involved:
1. The student having to correct the instructor's RT phraseology.
2. Unqualified personnel marking the UK JAR-FCL PPL papers in full view of other students. 'Groundschool' consisted of learning the 'PPL Confuser' parrot-fashion.
3. No formal navigation instruction. Students just map-read between points.
4. Incomplete Skill Tests carried out by a 'tame' Examiner.

This was at a training organisation whose initials do not contain multiple vowels, in case you think that I'm referring to ***!!

It really is time that the CAA found a way of refusing to recognize PPL training carried out by such appalling outfits!


[This message has been edited by BEagle (edited 04 February 2001).]

[farrari]

Flying F, i have sent you a em.

[flite idol]

Your log book is your own personal property, be very cautious of any U.S flight school that attempts to retain posession or control of your log book. They often try to use it as a hostage when you attempt to dispute or curtail inadequate training. Even if you owe them money they cannot keep your personal property, including your log book without a civil court judgement. For me this is a major red flag issue!.

[smoothkpilot]

Hi Guys

I'm about to go out to Florida to do my PPL, could someone please enlighten me as to the name of this particular school. PLease EMail me the details if you don't want to post them on the bulletin board. I want to make sure that the school I'm going to is not the one that you are talking about.

Thanks
Smoothk

Giving the smoothest landings worldwide.

[calibrated]

Hi Lads!
Could i get the name of that school too?

Thanks.

[crazypilot]

Farrari

Can u send me the name of this place

Cheers mate

[sd]

The VTR could be what finaly nails this crook.
I have still not had the VTR relief returned to me despite a completed form.
The IR should not be happy one bit, and if enough is stirred up in this direction, perhaps the said owner will see that there is such a thing as being in the wrong!
I assume we are talking about the same FTO, which is not so much near Orlando, but a more a well kown race track!
email me if we are.

[farrari]

CP have sent you a em

[kula]

Could I also get the name of this school...please!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Please email the name of the school to one another rather than post it here.

I am ALL for this information to be circulated - just not in a publicly liable fashion.

Cheers,

WWW

[BIG MISTER]

Pointing no elbows and mentioning no names...

I wonder what its like to be universaly hated by so many people ?

Given the number of poor wannabes that are 'suckered in' I also wonder why such publications such as the mainline aviation press run their ads month in and month out ?

It must be a comfort to know that there is little chance of legal action being brought against YOU as most of the people are 'poor as church mice' struggling wannabes !

Just remember wannabes have very very long memories. I live for the day you and your kind brought to book !!!

[This message has been edited by BIG MISTER (edited 06 February 2001).]

[BIG MISTER]

By posting this Ive just put it back at the top of the list.

For no other reason than all the new readers that have recently posted their interest in taking a PPL in the USA.

They NEED to be aware of this common problem.

[ustillflyin]

Just wanted to point out that the small flight schools can be just as likely to rip you off as the larger flight schools. A certain small school in South Eastern Michigan USA. consistantly provided poorly maintained aircraft (or no aircraft at all), even poorer customer service, and still expects you to pay every last farkin dime that they think you owe them. Even though they have clearly failed to meet some of the general contract obligations expected from a flight school.
On the other hand, less then one hours drive from that poorly run school is an excellect training facility which has up to date and well maintained equipment, a caring staff and reasonable rules regarding scheduling that work both ways.

Moral of this story: thoroughly research any place where you are spending money before giving them a single dime.


[This message has been edited by ustillflyin (edited 07 February 2001).]

[BAcrew]

Hi there, I'd also be grateful for the name of the company. My old man's a lawyer, and I'm sure he'd also be interested. Cheers

[AC-DC]

I understand that you don't want/can't spell names of some schools. But what about telling all about the good schools?
Start a new thread.

[Grandad Flyer]

Well I am surprised Henri hasn't turned up yet, I guess he is in hiding.
I would say that I would never, ever, ever, give up my log book to someone else to look after. No school needs to have your log book in their possession. I've never even heard of a school doing this. I used (and still do) carry my log book with me whenever going flying, and if you need it your instructor can write comments in whilst you wait.
Also, I have never heard of a school requiring a security deposit before.
I know some schools still try and get away with the "pay us all your money up front" scam, but most people know not to fall for that now.
Most schools offer pay as you go. Surely that is the security? At schools I have been to, as long as you have credit (ie. enough in your account for the coming session) you may fly. That is the only way to go. The school is covered anyway because they are making a profit on what they are charging you, so even if you managed a couple of hours extra and did a runner, it wouldn't cost the school anything really.
I hope you get your money back from these Scammers. Its just a shame that they keep threatening the administrators of this forum with legal action, and keep placing all those big shiny "its a bargain" ads in the flying mags. People see the price and the big ad and fall for it.

[VFE]

If it's not too much trouble could someone E-mail me the name of this school please?
I have interest in a US school at the moment too.

Cheers, VFE.

[davere van leatherboot]

I say chappies.Post the name of the school and stop other leather wearing fly boys getting stripped of there fake leather covered log books.Dare you even fly with these alleged ppl's who have had there papers marked by the local bin men.Through no fault of there own they have been ripped of by pseudo american instructers who have only learnt the questions and answers probally of the same ppl confuser..