Extra leg room seat charges

[Northern Highflyer]

This forum seems a bit quiet so I thought I would have a bit of a moan and see what other people's views were.

I can fully understand the extra charge as it is seen as a luxury to have the extra leg room. I know the person has to be able in an emergency as the seats are often near exits.

Now here's the moan, I am 6'5 and therefore don't see this seat as a luxury, more a necessity. I obviously cannot help my height and the ordinary cattle seats leave me with severe cramp after a couple of hours (thinking DVT) which is very uncomfortable and makes me restless for the rest of the flight, not very pleasant for those sat next to me. Yes I do stand up occasionally, stroll to the loo and back so much other pax think I have bladder trouble. I do not think people who need the extra room due to their size should have to pay extra as it is not a luxury and after all, a seat is a seat. If I wanted a first class seat fair enough, I would be happy to pay for the extra facilities that provides, like a better seat. I just want to sit comfortably the same as someone who is 5'5. It's the same on buses and trains but at least I am not allocated a seat and can find the ones with a bit more room such as a side seat on a bus without paying extra.

Why don't airlines consider these factors ?

Like I said, to anyone my size it isn't a luxury.

I realise I am in the minority with my height and most people are "average" height and I will probably get shot down here but any views anyone ?

Right moan over. I'll go get my coat.

[Airbus215]

WELL FROM MY EXPERIENCE .....

;)

The customer service teams at most of the uk charter carriers will on production of a doctors certificate happily allocate you a seat with a little extra room.... This of course means those travelling with you will need to shell out the extra dosh if they wish to sit with you or risk being split up.

And I know the charter division of 1 of the largest UK scheduled carriers will do this for you happily !.

The problem is at what point do you say yes that person is extra tall and that person isnt there has to be a a given height and I know that at the above airline that height is 6'5".

Of course youd be surprised at the number of 6'5" PAX who call up never to be heard of again when asked for a Dr's Certificate.


:ok:

[Northern Highflyer]

Airbus

thanks for the comments but why would I need a certificate from my doctor ?

I am not ill, just tall, and that is obvious when you see me. I don't need the extra leg room for any medical reason, just that I cannot sit in a normal seat for long.

I appreciate there has to be a decision point on height but I would think everyone would agree that 6'5 is pretty tall and the fact I have to squeeze into a normal seat would back this up.

Regards
NH

PS - don't have any probs when I am sat in the front of a PA28 :D

[PAXboy]

Northern Highflyer: No worries that your gripe will bring adverse reaction in this forum, I should say.

Whilst a Doctors ticket might not be to your taste, and one can see why, it could be said that such a ticket would help prevent illness for you and that is what Doctors are for!

If you can get such a piece of paper - I would do so now and keep it safe, with multiple copies! On this occasion, do as most folk would if in your situation, and place your ethics under the seat in front of you. :}

I am of average height but my father was 6'2" and flying was very difficult for him, so you must find it very unpleasant.

My 6'2" nephew finds it OK ... in the left hand seat of a Jetsream 41 :)

[MarkD]

Northern

there are 7' plus people but very few. Are they to be the benchmark? if so airlines would have to have 40" pitch or more.

Register as a BA frequent flyer and you get to nominate aisle or window - almost every time I fly BA I get my preference (window - and I'm 6'2!)

That said World Traveller Plus (38") is a bit more comfy than standard cattle, but only as an upgrade for cash strapped me!

[curmudgeon]

Northern

On the basis of your argument, that you should get premium seating at no extra cost because of your size, surely then my missus should get a discount because she's only 5' 00" and sits in the standard size seats.

cur

[Airbus215]

Northern Highflyer:

The reason that most charter carriers will ask for proof is simple, If they are to block that seat for you at no charge they need to know that despite you calling and telling them your 6'5" you really are.

They can often sell that seat 2 or 3 times over at a premium if they then assign it to you at no cost and at check in you turn out to be 5'7" there follows not only an arguement but the problem of either reselling that seat at checkin at a premium or finding a suitable able pax to sit there. (We wouldnt allow you to seat there if youve tried to mislead us )

The other option would be to have you turn up at check in at std- 3 hours to allow the checkin staff to confirm that your extra tall.


The only reason that we as airlines ask for a medical certificate is it is the only proof that is easily available - please tell me if you can suggest an alternative document !

It's a sad fact that there are a minority who will try any trick to get an x leg seat with out charge .

Hence my original remark about the number of pax who call claiming to be 6'5" plus but are never heard off again when asked to get proof .

Sadly my staff and I deal with this daily !

Likewise the Passanger who calls and demands extra leg room seats at an emergency exit due to a disability .

N H if you send me a private msg with details of your charter flight i'll try to put you in touch with my opposite number at the relavent charter carrier !( Of course you might even be flying with us and ill happily sort you out .)


:cool:

[CandyBender]

Am I missing something here???? Airlines, like all service providers/retailers provide a defined product & 99% of the time actually provide more than they are contractually obliged to (anyone actually read the conditions of carriage on their tickets???).

Who goes into Oddbins & picks up a bottle of Champagne but only wants to pay for a bottle of Lambrusco????
Who goes into the butchers for steak but is only prepared to pay for tripe???

Charter pax have been lucky over the years when they have had exit rows allocated, but the standard now is to charge for everything, including legroom (which 9/10 x is clearly advertised).
Likewise scheduled pax demanding upgrades.......

Anne Robinson, Esther Rantzen et al have a great deal to answer for........

[bealine]

Quite right, CandyBender!

The airlines make no secret of how much seat space is available!

If you have a genuine problem, then what exactly is the big hassle with getting a Doctor's note?............not that it will guarantee anything.

On that note, I think I'll pop down to my local car dealer and see if they'll sell me a Rolls Royce for the price of a Mini!

:rolleyes:

[Northern Highflyer]

I think some have missed the point slightly.

If I went for a Rolls Royce I would expect to pay Rolls Royce prices but then again I would have a mini of I fit into one. If I wanted First Class seating I would expect to pay for it. Same with the champagne analogy.

If someone who wears size 8 shoes should they pay more then someone in a size 6 due to extra foot room ?

MarkD

I wasn't trying to set a benchmark, my point was that these seats are available (even if you exclude the person and their height) as a standard class seat so why do the people sitting in them pay more for them ? It's not as if seats have been taken out to make more room. As an example, if you and curms wife were sat together on a 5 hour flight in standard seats I would expect she would be reasonably comfortable throughtout where as you would be suffering by the end of the trip due to your size.
Paxboy

Maybe I should get a jetstream :D might be cheaper in the long run. I will hold out for a RHS then hopefully that will be problem solved.

My main point was that the extra leg room has a surcharge because it is classed as a "luxury" which is true for those that can fit into standard seats, but for some it cannot be described as that as they have no option but to use these seats. The seat is the same size and shape and the service I receive is the same, all I am asking is to be able to sit comfortably like anyone else and not have cramps in my legs, not to be able to lounge around.

Airbus

I see your point, I can imagine you get lots of s**t like that happening, but I guess you get people abusing any system. I think I will speak to the doc next time I visit. For short flights I can manage in an ordinary seat but 4 or more hours becomes a problem. Those taller than me must have a nightmare. Like I said in my first post I knew I would get shot down but at least it livened the forum up. I only use airlines for holiday travel but thanks for the offer. I just thought it would be interesting to get some views on the subject.

Thanks for the replies guys :ok:

PS. anyone who agrees with me feel free to comment as I seem to be alone so far in my view......:O :O

[PAXboy]

1) I think that your point is logical and reasonable and worth considering.

2) I know that in commercial flying - it ain't gonna happen in my lifetime!

Your problem is that you are being logical and reasonable. :(

[RadAlt]

Northern, being 6'6" myself, I completely agree with you.
I always dread being stuck in a cramped seat on a flight. Quite annoying sometimes aswell to see some 65+ year old with a kane sitting in an emergency-exit seat while I'm folded up a few rows behind (before anybody starts, I have nothing agains elderly people flying :hmm:, but sometimes 'able-bodied' doesn't appear to mean much).
curmudgeon, what do you mean 'premium seat'? These seats are in the same class, only difference being the extra inches for the knees. Just because airliners will have pax paying for this extra (which I find ridiculous, luckily not every company does), doesn't really make them 'premium class'!

[curmudgeon]

RadAlt, by "premium" I meant one that you had to pay for. I was trying to point out a logical, but absurd consequence in the original post.

Oh, and Northern. If anyone has to sit beside my wife for 5 hours, even in Club seats, I would certainly question if they'd be comfortable at the end of the flight! :D :D :D

cur

[DistantRumble]

An interesting point.....could we have seating different pitches depending on persons height. for example do a height/weight computation - divide the people into 5 classes

tiny children
small people
medium people
large people
Massive people - 17 stone & 6'2" plus

and have different seat pitches ? . This would be great ... but is a contender for the #1 ' Suggestion that'll never be implemented'

[Tomb Raider]

Let me see,

Family of 5.....Father= 6'3" 17 st,big and heavy
Mother=5'7" 9st, average ht and wt
Teenage son=5'10" 11st
8 yr old daughter
4 yr old son
All of this family are gonna happily sit apart from each other for 10+hrs in their "respective classes"?

No,let's all sit in with dad in the big seats and be together.4 other v.large pax can't take a big seat because of said family.Large pax quite happy to sit in small seats,even though they can see a 4 yr old and an 8 yr old curled up in the big seats?

The mind boggles at the problems this potentially would cause?
A most ridiculous suggestion....if I may be so bold!!

[PAXboy]

We have been round that one a number of times. :rolleyes:

It is (almost) always possible to see inappropriate people in exit rows. Be prepared to heave them to one side/step over them, do the door and then bundle them out of it.

[Ludwig]

Don't often visit this forum, but when I do there always, but always seems to be a thread or threads about how to get more leg room, better free wash bags, bigger seats etc etc. There cannot be anyone in the civilised world who does not know that sitting in Economy seats is a painful and pointless option. They are small and uncomfortable and the service is crap, because you don't pay much for it. If you want bigger seats, whether it's because you are tall, fat, or crippled, just pay the bloody money and go club or first; if it's outside your budget, don't go. Easy.

:mad:

[Pax Vobiscum]

Sorry Ludwig, but as long as airlines offer upgrades or there are bulkhead seats with longer than standard legroom we PAX will be in search of ways to finagle them - it's just human nature.

In my experience no-one actually pays their own money for First or Club - if I'm there it's because someone else is paying (or I wangled an upgrade!).

PS that should be di-di-di-DAH [(c) Python Enterprises] :O

[Gaza]

In my experience no-one actually pays their own money for First or Club - if I'm there it's because someone else is paying (or I wangled an upgrade!).

That is a huge generalisation. I pay for my own Business and very occasionally First tickets. I am by no means alone in this. With a bit of research it is possible to get Business Class at good prices, especially if it invloves round the world travel.

Some of my family and friends think I'm mad paying the prices I do but to me the flight is a large part of my holiday and I want to enjoy it. My ex-wife was the same at first but once she experienced Business Class a couple of times she was never going to sit in the back again.

[PAXboy]

Gaza, with you 100%.

Firstly, I should say that I don't have children, so that makes it easier! My limits are: 7 hrs = Y, if pushed for cash, up to 8. i.e. LHR/NYC is easy, ORD / DTW also OK.

After that, I reckon VS PE or BA WTP or equivalent.

Over 10 and I really want full Biz/Upper.

I normally do this by buying a flexible ticket and upgrading with FFMs. Occasionally, I pay for an indirect flight on biz. In the old days, I used Sabena to JNB a couple of times as their prices for club were very good. Service was :yuk: but the price was OK!

Friends think I am crackers to spend the money but I point out the same as Gaza. I enjoy Paxing and am willing to pay for the service and space.

As for the comments about getting a better free washbag ... we were just chewing the fat as to what they actually cost and the pros and cons. None of us choose flights by the goody bag. It was a light hearted conversation about an inconsequential item. Sorry that you thought otherwise.

Ludwig, You said that you don't drop into this forum very often. See you same time next year?

[Pax Vobiscum]

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy sitting in the big seats, eating the caviar and drinking the champers as much as anyone, and if I have to travel over 5 hrs the client pays for Club (or I'll sometimes trade for an extra night in a nice hotel). But if you believe that paying £100s per hour (as opposed to FFM) for the privilege constitutes value for money ...

... well, I own this really nice bridge in NY that I'm looking to sell :p

[PAXboy]

PV - I agree!!! I have spent my time doing 14 hrs LHR~HKG in Y because the client would not pay more and I did not have the means to upgrade myself.

I use FFMs whenever possible as they are the simplest way to get further forward. I am not suggesting that FFMs are themselves value for money when earned on things like credit card £££ spent!!! But, if you accrue them from several different directions ... then you save more quickly. e.g. My VS account collects points from four different places.

Also, as you will know, the 'value' of the seat and service is only whatever people are prepared to pay for it. Some have different scales of 'value'. :rolleyes:

[Gaza]

PV

Last year I bought a oneworld Explorer First Class Round the World ticket ex-JNB. Due to the weak Rand and market forces the prices was £2700 including all taxes. At the time the same ticket ex-UK was over £6500. I flew to JNB in BA Club World using miles.

For my money I got:-

JNB-SYD (First Class - QF)
SYD-CNS (Business - QF)
CNS-MEL (Business - QF)
MEL-PER (Business - QF)
PER-SYD (Business - QF)
SYD-(LAX)-JFK(First Class - QF)
JFK-SJU (Business - AA)
SJU-SLU (Y - Single Class Aircraft)
SLU-SJU (Y - Single Class Aircraft)
SJU-JFK (Business - AA)
JFK-SFO (First Class - AA)
SFO-LAX (First Class- AA)
LAX-LHR (First Class- BA)

The best bit is that due to the ticket being issued in JNB I still have a number of "segments" available. I have until 26/12 to use them. Still to come is:-

LHR-IST (Business - BA)
IST-LHR (Business - BA)
LHR-DXB (First Class - BA)
DXB-LHR (First Class - BA)
LHR-CPT (First Class - BA)
CPT-DUR (Business - BA)
DUR-CPT (Business - BA)
PLZ-JNB (Business - BA)

To save you doing the math it has worked out at £128 per flight. Do I consider it good value? Too bloody right I do!!

Not only have I experienced excellent service, good meals and comfotable seat but I've accumulated as bucket load of BA Miles that will get me at least one Business Class return to the USA. Combine that with the AMEX 2 for 1 voucher and the value gets even better.

Two years ago I did a similar Round the World trip in Business Class using Star Alliance airlines. That ticket cost £2600 ex UK. The equivalent Economy ticket was around £1300. Most people would not pay the double the price but as I said earlier I like to fly. I like my comfort.

[Pax Vobiscum]

Amazing Gaza - that works out at just over 5p a mile, consider my hat removed in your general direction! But I hazard a guess that most of those occupying the front third of the bus are not on a RTW bought in RSA.

Your UK price of £6,500 confirms my rule of thumb that, in long-haul, First costs around 5x the equivalent economy ticket - a RTW ticket with BA cost me (and Mrs PV) £1,300 each in Y (which I thought at the time was good value). e.g. BA.com is currently offering on LHR-SFO return (fully flexible):
economy £1,200
Premier (WT+) £2,600
Club £5,000
First £7,500
Cheapest economy is £175 (!) and cheapest WT+ £550, no discounts on Club or First.

Of course, large businesses may be able to cut sweet-heart deals that give them significantly better pricing than this, but I suspect the differentials between different classes of travel will remain.