SKYWEST Airlines said yesterday...

[topend3]

Confidence on finances for Skywest

By Geoffrey Thomas



SKYWEST Airlines said yesterday it was confident it would be able to convince the State Government that the airline's finances were strong enough to warrant a continuation of its monopoly on some routes.

Chief executive Scott Henderson said he expected the company would have the necessary aircraft leases renegotiated by the end of the month and would have a rights issue completed by early next month.

The rights issue and accompanying placement is expected to be worth up to $2 million.

Planning and Infrastructure Minister Alannah MacTiernan warned Skywest last week it would lose its monopoly on some routes if it was unable to secure financing for its five F-50 aircraft and if written assurances were not forthcoming about its ability to pay its debts as they fell due.

Mr Henderson said yesterday these targets would be met. "We have told the Government that we will have a deal in place by the end of April," he said.

Skywest's five F-50s have a book value of $15.3 million, but the airline owes the Commonwealth Bank $13.3 million.

However, that book value is now over six months old and observers suggest the values may be as low as $12 million with the Iraq war and the outbreak of SARS stripping values from airlines and aircraft around the globe.

Analysts in Asia have warned that some of Qantas' 20-year old Boeing 747s and 767s may have to be written off.

The lease on the Skywest aircraft falls due on June 30 and a partial interim payment, due on March 31, was deferred, say airline sources, because it would have triggered the final payout.

Commonwealth Bank is believed to have told Skywest it would agree to renegotiate the leases if the airline was able to raise more equity.

Skywest is planning to raise capital through a rights issue and a placement. Skywest shareholders include chairman Pat Ryan, property developer Clive Hartz and winemaker Franklin Tate.

Paterson Ord Minnett will handle the rights issue.

Late last month Skywest was dealt a blow when respected director and shareholder Mike Calneggia resigned from the board.

Mr Calneggia, whose 6 per cent in the airline is valued at $350,000, did not elaborate on his departure.

However, Mr Calneggia, who was a driving force behind Skywest's recent restructure, was believed to have concerns about other boardroom issues.

Skywest faces significant challenges to stay in the air after posting a six-month loss of $975,000 to December 31.

On the short term radar is litigation with the airline's former chief executive Bill Meeke, who is suing for $1.3 million for breach of contract over his sacking last year.

A planned 7 per cent fare rise to bolster revenues looks questionable.

[MU2]

YES WELL MR THOMAS WROTE THE ARTICLE, SO IT MUST BE CORRECT............

[jetpipe]

With friends like this reporting the "truth" who needs a PR company.

I did like the quote from the Minister

"Planning and Infrastructure Minister Alannah MacTiernan warned Skywest last week it would lose its monopoly on some routes if it was unable to secure financing for its five F-50 aircraft and if written assurances were not forthcoming about its ability to pay its debts as they fell due."

If they dont secure the aircraft then how are they going to fly any routes??????

[Apollo 4]

Jetpipe

I think the magical word is "five" if skywest don't secure the "five" F50 aircraft.

Keep your eyes on Great Western's RPT aspirations, might surprise us all.

;)

[MU2]

APOLLO. I WONT HOLD MY BREATH.

[Bendt]

I would not be expecting much considering they amend their flight plans over head Geraldton when they haven't got any PAx to stop at Gero and their biggest load to date is apparently only 5 PAX........;)

[jetpipe]

Apollo 4

GWA have survived may a troubled time but never in the RPT field.
remember Western Airlines, where did they go and where are they now??

If the last report I read is true then Geraldton is open to competition now,so here is the chance for all the others to rush into the high profits of an RPT route.

Remember many a charter company has gone bust after moving into RPT because the next run will always be better than the last and profits they used to make every trip have dried up.

The big issue here is not wether Skywest can refinance the aircraft but wether they get a fair hearing in the press and are allowed to try?

[EMB Bras]

Bendt,

GWA arent going into GEL anymore due to the Govt. not allowing it.
Flight plan amendments overhead GEL isn't because of no Pax, it is because a fuel stop is no longer required.

Skippers are keeping very quiet in all this... will be interesting to see if they decide to take a crack at the GEL/SHK routes.

[Apollo 4]

Jetpipe: Fair comment.

EMB Bras: They are quiet aren't they !

:suspect:

[Barney Cool]

I think Skywest have had nothing but a 'fair go' in the press recently. When was the last time someone posted a newpaper article bagging Skywest?

Don't get me wrong, I wish them all the very best in this trying time, but you must admit, they have had a lot of cash and protection from the government for the last 19 months.

The time for results has to be now.

Once again - best of luck.

[topend3]

i really hope that Skywest do produce the results as many communtities will be disadvantaged if they don't, i can't see anyone else providing the good service to these towns that Skywest does.

[detached observer]

Geoffrey Thomas's article in today's West is enough to convince me (and I generally keep an open mind, innocent until proven guilty and all that) that he is most certainly doing a hatchett job on Skywest.
I happen to know that Skywest are travelling better than have done in a long time, the guys and girls have agreed to take pay cuts and improve productivity to save the company. This is a very dedicated and professional bunch who are committed to making their airline work (yes they are all share holders).
The West Australian would be perhaps more appropriately renamed the "The Meek Australian". Why doesn't this paper mention the other lawsuits Mr Meek has instigated? Is Mr Meek a "serial suer"? I recall reading somewhere about him suing his last employer also, and also recall that he sued (or attempted to sue) government over coastwatch contract some 10 or so years ago. I would not be surprised if there is more history. Why was there no mention of Skywest's recent milestone - 40 years in business (congratulations SKywest - that is something to proud of in any industry, but particulary aviation).
Geoffrey, give Skywest a break. Even if you dislike the board, give the staff a break. This kind of media can bring down an airline. It is hard enough to survive in this industry without this. Suggest you go and talk to the staff, and put personal feelings /friendships aside.

[outback aviator]

GOOD POINT!! :ok:

[gaunty]

I would not be surprised if there is more history. Why was there no mention of Skywest's recent milestone - 40 years in business (congratulations SKywest - that is something to proud of in any industry, but particulary aviation).

Not even close.
Is a typical PR BS use of semantics.

40 years if you include AND acknowledge from whence they came, but barely 18 for the name of the entity which was merged with others.

Meeke is a newbie in the pantheon of those who were part of the process of evolution and could have only got up "there" as part of the Stowe/Ansett schemings.

The problems they are now experiencing, without their Big Brother are exactly the same problems that faced their ancestors 40 years ago. I know because I was actually there.

Geoffrey might have a better kowledge of that background than you think.

When I get back form work today I will give you the history and lineage.

I have no problems with them saying "40 years" as long as they
recognise from whence they came and I can assure you it was not from Meekes 40 year old Skywest.

Just as a bit of a clue Skywest started as an operator out of Witenoom.

[topend3]

Carnarvon Air Taxis, one of the original companies involved, a good rundown on the history is in the back of the "ANSETT" history book, by Jim Thorn...

[jetpipe]

The interesting bit in GT's article on Saturday was about WMC.

From his comment the only reason Skywest did not get the contract was because Meeke had gone and I am sure it had nothing to do with the fact that they had had Qantas jets for the last year and frequent flyer points? All the things Skywest did not have at that time!

However it does seem odd that they managed to get Argyle without him? After all from GT's words he is/was the only one who knew anything about aviation at Skywest.

In regard to law suits try a search for Coastwatch in the law archives and see how many suits there have been during his reign?

[aerosoul]

Too right jetpipe! Hey GT you on holidays?? I guess perhaps your editor cut all the stuff you were going to say about Mr Meeke due to a lack of space etc etc. Its a shame that just a little couldnt have been squeezed in, you know, in the interests giving a balanced view of events. Don't Editors suck!

[dodgybrothers]

an analyst said......
Love to find one of Geoff's analysts

[Apollo 4]

Good Old Trans West... What ever happened to the old fleet of TW. Spent many an hour in VH-TWX C402B (trixy) as she was effectionately known then.

Has anyone got a photo of the old Skywest office at Wittenoom?
Captain Ace can you help out with a photo?
Many a memorable night spent out the back or in the old Fortesque Hotel.

Alas I fear that the idiots running the board of Skywest now may have sealed its fate, sadly a great airline with pi$$ poor fiscal management or know how ...

:hmm:

[topend3]

Apollo 4,

lets not forget that many of the problems xr have faced in the last 18 - 24 months have not been entirely of it's own making, under the ansett banner skywest was profitable and having a hook up with a major carrier provided it with the on-carriage traffic that it desperately needed to survive.

With ansett gone, the board and mangement suddenly realise that someone in melbourne aint making the economic decisions anymore so it's time to fend for themselves.

henderson has publicly stated that loadings are better than ever for the first few months of the year, and the interline agreement with qf will only enhance this. Staff who are clearly committed to the survival of the company and are willing to increase productivity and take a wage cut to see the company through are helping as a range of economic and cost-cutting initiatives are brought into place. The WA govt quite rightly moved to protect xr on it's marginal routes (all except gel) which will help too. A jet of the right type in the F100 also gives them the opportunity to expand the mining contracts and charter side of the business.

So i don't think their fate is sealed at all, true there is a long way to go, but they have started to make steps in the right direction and lets hope for the sake of the industry that it comes off.

[Apollo 4]

Top

You confirm what I am saying... The Ansett know how is gone and the current board have not a clue.

14th of September 2001 the pack of cards collapsed, the un-thinkable occurred.

Despite a monopoly on the south west routes XR is still in debt to the point where the Government is insisting on assurances that they can meet their debts on call. How can a monopoly be so critically in debt ? Why have management waited until now to make the fiscal changes and salary cuts ? Why did the board not listen to management when companies like Woodside Petroleum were guaranteeing 3 year contracts providing XR got a jet ?, instead waiting until the opportunity had been lost and even then running a F50 near empty up and down the western sea-board, why ?. Why are some of the XR flight crew moonlighting at other companies ?

XR is a golden goose who is in danger of being cooked once and for all. Aviation companies such as Skippers are waiting for their demise and I must say that the management of that company does have the expertise to cash in on a monopoly, they don’t know how to look after their effos or post a roster but they do know how to run an aviation business, why? Because they are experienced aviation personnel and aviators!!!

XR has sub-standard fiscal management and I venture to say that instead of management keeping the company going by pulling everything together, it is the employees below that are pushing everything... up hill making this airline possible.

:sad: :( :rolleyes:

[jetpipe]

Apollo 4

How come you know so much about the management at XR? Do you work there or did you go to the same school of fact finding as GT?

With a handle on avaition as good as you think you have I would suggested you stop quoting other peoples copy as facts.

If all the other companies are so much better run I trust you have looked at their CV's as closely as you have at XR's, or you might find that those who you feel know everything actually know nothing.

How many RPT routes has Skippers ever operated from inception? And how many have they been given by XR?

JW might be winning the charter market but RPT is a competely different ball game. That would really test the convictions of the managment and see if the funding held out every time a flight went out without a break even load factor.

[Apollo 4]

Jetpipe

I guess I hit a nerve....

My answer is simple, How come you don't know so much about management at XR ? Are you in a coma? or just deep denial ? With the same conditions (MONOPOLY) I bet Skippers or even Network for that matter would have a field day and if XR don't straighten up and fly right they will probably get the chance....

Talk to the boys and girls at the coal face and then make an informed decision, before trying to shoot people down....

Oh I get it maybe you are one of the crew moonlighting over there with uncle Ron and just getting a bit touchy, really great management that you need to look for extra somewhere else.

:ouch: :ooh: ;)

[Stick Pusher]

Apollo 4

"I must say that the management of that company does have the expertise"
" they do know how to run an aviation business"

you think!? :8

Skippers struggles through everything, you think they manage that company well? Seriously i can't believe that you even said that.

yes the board new nothing about aviation and have had to learn fast over the time they have had XR. yes there have been changes, but they are skilled buiness men in their own fields and each of which brings certain skills, expertise and knowledge to the group, and they are learning aboout how to run an airline. their are some very skilled and talented people below them that are showing them the ropes so to speak. The Bill Meeke sell blinded them at the start, (TESNA going which was part of the origional plan...), and changes at the helm haven't helped the focus and stability, but I think that now with Scott H there, and that he has had time to settle in and understand it all, i think he will do great things for the company. the people that work there are the ones that have had the skill and dedication under the most trying of conditions and circumstances to over come all the odds, challenges and problems they have faced to still be here and to move forward. to try and keep a professional and highly regarded airline operating without droping the ball when AN went down and providing a service to the community is no easy task. I doubt very seriously that skippers could have pulled the same feat off. they still sstruggle with the concept of their own field of operation..

And if people want to work extra they can so long as it doesn't bust any F & D, or fatigues themselves. Nothing wrong with the pay and conditions at XR, nothing to do with management, it's the individuals decision. Plenty of people have other business, varying intersts, and projects on the side.

And you think that getting a high capacity AoC is any mean feat. Just was not pratical to achieve in the time frame and under the conditions at the time. plus the loss of a F/F program did not help and the uncertainty at the time didn't go towards obtaining the WMC contract...

[Apollo 4]

Stick Pusher

“yes the board new nothing about aviation and have had to learn fast over the time they have had XR. yes there have been changes, but they are skilled buiness men in their own fields and each of which brings certain skills, expertise and knowledge to the group, and they are learning about how to run an airline”

As a potential investor I would love to see this statement in the prospectus….Not !!

With admissions like this there is no way that any SANE investor would hand over hard earned cash so that the board and management of XR can LEARN about how to run an airline.

It is all too easy to forget that if Bill Meake had not been included in the prospectus, Skywest would never have been raised form the dead in the first place, government would not have backed it and share holders would not have invested….. and if that had been the case, Skippers or the like would have jumped in. How can any responsibly run business fail in a MONOPOLY ?

As for having insufficient time to get a high capacity AoC, how much time did XR need ? They have only just decided to can the F50 up and down the Western Sea board, now let me see, the time frame …… 14/09/2001 to 20/04/2003 ????? again how much time does XR need ????

After having a chin wag with some of the guys at the coal face I would have to say one thing for XR and that is the troops seem very confident that Scott H can help them out of the sh1t and that sort of support is going to give them the best chance…

Investors I am sure would feel much more confident about investing if at least one member of the board actually had some aviation qualifications, know how or experience.


:D :D :D

[Stick Pusher]

We could go on for quite some time Apollo 4...

Who said my views would be in a prospectus...? By your tones I wouldn't expect you to invest regardless of anything. I don't see any admissions, just my views, not the companies. Are all airlines, or aviation companies owned or controlled by aviation specialists? I think not. (Skippers and Stan for one). What I trying to say, without you misunderstanding what I'm trying to say, is that it has been a steep learning curve. It was all based on a premise from a smooth talking salesman origionally, but alot has changed since AN+1. Don't think that the Meeke consortum was the only one trying to get their hands on Skywest when AN went under. Where is the failing...? 18 months later and they are still here, and under trying times and curcumstances. if you can run things better then send in your resume. I always said from DDay that it would take until the end of 03 to see where it was all going, so far I'm on track...

Your ignorance in knowledge in gaining an High Capacity AoC shows... With very limited resources for such a small company that it is not under the umbrella of AN and doesn't have a bottomless pit of money, i think that they are doing a great job and are doing their best. As for your inaccuracy and lack of knowledge of the Western Seabaord I suggest you remain on the Eastern side. I believe that they are still flying to western seaboard ports such as GEL / SHK / CAR / LM ring a bell... Your failure to understand their reasonings, I won't go into for various reasons. As to explain their corporate stratergy, that is up to them and of their choosing. if you had spoken to those at the coal face you would find the majority, if not all, basically feel what I have said. The employees have the aviation qualifications, know how and experience, and the whole team, (as a whole), has kept it going and will do so into the future. Investors want to see if they will make a buck, and with the reformed XR, I think they will. Time will tell, and as we all know there is no crystal ball in this game... (just look at 9/11 and SARS as examples...)

[Bendt]

Stick pusher........well said my friend:ok:

Apollo 4

If I ever cross you in the street I will surely give you the FONGING of your life:ouch: Get your facts straight .... some of us wish to put back into the industry what we have gotten out of it:D :D not that a rocket scientist like you would understand.
Nuff said:E :E :E

[Apollo 4]

StickPusher

Well I would hardly class Stan as non aviation…. Besides owning and operating the largest charter company in Perth for a decade or more and having vested interest in companies such as Rossair and the like, surely that cannot be counted as Non Aviation. Besides being as cunning as a sh1t house rat, if he was employing a management team a kin to XR they wouldn’t have lasted a month with out Stan kicking butts and making changes.

I guess the major point here is that XR reportedly was a profitable going concern prior to An’s demise, I find that hard to believe because here they are in their own right with the same monopoly and going backwards. Sure I accept that there are NOW concerted efforts by the (whole team) to turn things around, however this has come from the realisation of the inevitable consequences of failure if they don’t and not out of good corporate and fiscal management planning.

Remember, the charter operators are competing heavily every day while XR has it all to themselves, don’t write the likes of Skippers, GWA, and the dark horse Network off so easily, have a look at who started Skippers and who now owns Network…… That is the sort of experience and know how XR could do with but can’t afford.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL THE STAFF AT SKYWEST I HOPE IT GOES WELL FROM HERE ON OUT……..

:ok:

[detached observer]

Apollo 4 - you are ignoring one fundamental factor.
"Monoploy" DOES NOT automatically mean profitable business opportunity.
If the routes were profitable, there would be no need for monopoly.
This is a very big state, with a very small population, ie long skinny routes.
It is debatable as to whether Skywest ever made profit. Under AN, many of the true costs of operating the business were hidden, ie, call centre, ground handling, sales and marketing, yield management etc.
Why would you call yourself a "potential investor" if you clearly have so much disdain for this company?
Perhaps Apollo 4 is one BM himself?

[Apollo 4]

Detached

First rule of business sell the product for more than it costs and the difference is known as a profit.

When the people have no other option you cannot fail, providing what you are charging is reasonable and fair.

If the management can't reduce the over heads and maximise profits the company goes broke.

[slice]

May I possibly suugest that the F50 is the wrong AC for Skywest (too heavy/too big). How do the operating costs compare with a smaller Dash 8. They seem to work for Sunnies/Eastern.


C402B TWX was at KakaduAir in the late 90s but was sold on the East Coast I believe:O

[detached observer]

Apollo 4 -
First rule of basic economics - charge too high and people don't buy.
Most Skywest routes are driving distance - the comptetion is cars and buses. People have options and are by no means forced to buy the product.

[MU2]

I think Apollo should try another topic, as he knows very little about the WEST, XR, it's RPT ops, etc.

I AGREE WITH STICK PUSHER AND DETACHED OBSERVER.

[detached observer]

Slice, I think you are correct, the F50 is too big, however the capital cost and lease rate of this aircraft type are now so low it is unlikely there would be any real advantage to a type change. Especially when you add in all the re-tooling and retraining costs that would be associated.

[Apollo 4]

Detached


First rule of bankrupcy don't charge enough and end up at the admiistrators auction. If it is not making money then what is the point ? Airlines are not charity services.

At least there is a bit of lively debate going on now.

Thanks slice, VH-TWX was a great machine in her time never got a photo of her which is a pity.


:ooh:

[topend3]

i'm tending to agree with detached and stick pusher, and i think apollo 4 needs to do a bit of homework.

Good aviation knowledge alone does not make an airline. Rather, the trend is for sound business acumen and economic and accounting qualifications to be one of the key qualities of a good airline manager, just as in any manager in any other business.

The CEO of Skywest comes from a strong airline background with a proven track record in the industry, he reports directly to the board of directors as in any organisation, and apollo, if you are so sure of your expertise, maybe you should invest and get a seat on the board.

Skywest are doing it tough, no doubt, but airlines go through tough times, and just because they have a monopoly does not mean that they should be making profits.

Apollo 4, you would do well to educate yourself on the unique aspects of the WA regional route structure.

HERE IS A GOOD START - http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/aviation/directions.pdf

THIS ONE ALSO GOOD


http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/aviation/overview.pdf

these were written by experts, unlike you...


There are not too many similar routes in the world that have such vast distances and small populations, you think any of the wa based charter operators could walk in and make a killing on these routes? I beg to differ. The important thing to remember is that these communities rely on an air service that is reliable, efficient and affordable. Skywest deliver on the reliability and efficiency parts of this and fare levels are what you would expect from a route that produces minimum yields due to its structure. Aircraft type is good, and the costs of changing types at this stage of the game i think would not be viable.

As for dropping the F50 on the western seaboard? what the hell is all that about? You must be on the east coast surely as it seems you have no idea what you are on about.

The changes have been made, loadings are improving, staff are committed to making the changes work and i have no doubt the board are confident in their own business expertise to make this happen and turn the airline into a profitable position, the WA government has also moved in the right way to offer assistance where it can.

[MU2]

GO TOPEND, I'AM WITH YOU........

[geoffrey thomas]

Some of you have accused me of giving Skywest a hard time.
The facts are quite the opposite!
When BM was running the airline I was very supportive of the airline but when he was dumped naturally I was critical of the way it was done and the fact that there was no one on the board with any airline experience.
The simple fact is that a number of shareholders simply wanted to float the airline to mums and dads and make a killing—that was their sole objective. They weren’t interested in staff—don’t kid yourselves!!
WMC have told a number of investors in Perth that they pulled the plug on Skywest when BM was dumped. The contract was ready to go.
And why did get Skywest get the Argyle contract because the bloody idiots undercut NJS by over $1 million and they didn’t have too.
NJS where only there because QF couldn’t provide a DAYTIME 737 for them to meet roster changes and Argyle wanted to encourage another operator. NJS was never really a competitor and one major shareholder in Skywest fought against the Argyle deal for the stupidity it was.
Now the word in the Eastern States is that “Alliance” is really thrilled to get the monthly lease payments from Skywest. There is no way two operators can make money out of a lease.
Now, for the bad publicity.
I have not bothered to report that four (4) Skywest engineers have rung me saying that the airline is cutting back too severely and they are really worried.
I didn’t bother to write that Skywest’s chief pilot failed (told not to take it) his F100 endorsement and is on sick leave.
I have also not reported that Skywest is having problems with engineers (lack of) for the F-100 and there are some very interesting backstabbing twists in that story.
Everything I have reported about Skywest is accurate in fact painfully so.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
And talk about Skywest’s 40 years there has been nobody that has helped Skywest more than BM.
Somebody mentioned BM suing. Yes he has and for good reason and has won every time and will do so over Skywest according to airline sources.
For the record:
He sued the NT government when it tried to overturn the awarding of a Aerial Medical contract for four aircraft to Skywest—BM won and saved your jobs.
He took on the Federal Government when they awarded the Coast watch to Robert Amann, when he had no planes. He won and saved your jobs!
He also revealed that National Safety Council boss John Freidrich was a fraud and didn’t even have an Australian passport or a visa for that matter.
And now Skywest will not settle a what I am told by Government sources is a legitimate claim for loss of wages etc etc. They, it would appear take on BM at their peril. (To qualify this is a view put to me by two state government sources)
As far as suing his former employer. Not true BM was his former employer he ran his own business BUT he has sued a major bank for bankrupting his business and that case when it comes to light will be a landmark case that will change banking in this country. And he will win that one too, according to an Eastern States QC who has briefed me.
So let’s get the facts straight. As Gaunty said: I know a great deal more about what is going on than has been reported.
And for the record the "analysts" are usually people like airline CEOs who don't wish to be named or indeed airline analysts or finance analysts who cannot be named for conflict of interest reasons..simply as that.
Best GT

[Kanga767]

I don't believe the N.T. Government would have had anything to do with who was awarded with the Coastwatch contract

[Apollo 4]

Geoffrey Thomas

Absolutely well said !

Topend

Never ever go into business, you’ll go broke !

[Rudi Zarsoff]

May I suggest that the ANALYSTS are in fact ANAL LINGUISTS!!!

[geoffrey thomas]

Kanga 767: In my haste I mentioned coast watch twice. You are right the NT Government was the Aerial Medical contarct for four aircraft. Best GT

[MU2]

"When BM was running the airline I WAS very supportive", yes you may also have been supportive, but that is a bone of contention, as since BM left your tune has changed.....

Obviously your facts are still off the mark, i.e. WS and Engineering for starters. But the things that get me the most is the biased reporting you do. It never seems objective and you seem to pick at all the little ins and outs of the company which are hardly newsworthy. If you write so much about Skywest, you must be able to write a novel about Qantas every day relatively speaking. But you never take your focus off Skywest and direct it at other companies that actually have more newsworthy items to report. For example things like the 737 runway excursion at Darwin? or the other 737 that had it's speed brake out and the crew wondered why it had a rumbling noise and vibration and did a flyby of the tower. Or perhaps a certain operator at Perth who had 3 engine failures/shutdowns all in the one day. Or a runway excursion in a C441 that is common knowledge? How about Skywest's 40th Birthday? Ok it started from Carnarvon Air Taxis or whatever and they traced their roots back. So have other airlines around the world, so what if it's a bit of PR! (Gaunty ..... Fair go). But that wasn't newsworthy...?
And when you report something, there always seems to be something that you drag back in that's old news but you repeat it like a broken record.... (or is it pading for your word quota?).

I don't really care who your analysts are, but if you can't say who then don't use them or their quotes or information. Very poor indeed. I bet Media Watch would have a field day!!!!!

P.S. here's some bias:

"Somebody mentioned BM suing. Yes he has and for damn good reason and has won every time and may do so over Skywest" - well doesn't that record get played again and again in the West....

"They take on BM at their peril" - ...

"Now for the bad publicity." & "I have not bothered to report...." -

you have now..


PPS. YOUR QUOTE.....So let’s get the facts straight. As Gaunty said: I know a great deal more about what is going on than has been reported.

Well i very much doubt that. AND THAT IS A FACT.

[topend3]

Apollo 4,

unlike your posts mine was an objective look at the issues considering the views of both parties and i felt you may have needed some help in finding the western seaboard, thats all, i hope you found the relevant websites useful and informative, they may help you to see the whole picture regarding skywest's woes and maybe consider the issues regarding the market that they operate in a litle more, rather than rambling on about your own personal gripes.

cheers

[abario]

Hello all....

First, congrats on the article GT.... Well done, and amazingly it didn't get squashed by the moderator!!

Secondly, I reckon the final nail in the coffin for Skywest will be when Aerocare take over the Ground Handling contract on the 18th of May.
Not only will they have heaps of delays (costly), as VB did and still do, the Customer Service is Crap to say the least - "Would you like fries with that window seat??"

Rumour has it that they (Skywest) have employed a person just to supervise the operation of Aerocare - very sad indeed!!

Anyway, according to some I don't know what Im talking about - namely the Moderator.

Thanks...;)

[Woomera]

As you can see abario and tarmacwa, if indeed they aren't the same person is now banned.

I sent the post to Admin for review with a request for him and tarmacwa to stand by for its return if appropriate.

He/they attempted three more times to post the article notwithstanding my warning and request.

[Apollo 4]

I am informed that Skywest services to Karratha are now at an end and other Western sea board ports may soon follow.

Apparently all to do with economics? funny that, with an average load factor of 17 it should have been stopped months ago.

:{

Heard that a steve got knocked back by Rex, apparently.

:ooh:

[geoffrey thomas]

Dear MU2:

I find your post incredible and hardly a reflection of the FACTS and you do not appear to be across all the issues and thus may not have a full appreciation of what is going on.

I will attempt to answer you comments in order.

MU2….”But the things that get me the most is the biased reporting you do. It never seems objective and you seem to pick at all the little ins and outs of the company which are hardly newsworthy. If you write so much about Skywest, you must be able to write a novel about Qantas every day relatively speaking.”

GT…..As far as the daily paper is concerned I have written very little about Skywest and have avoided all the ins and outs…such as “we blow hydraulic lines all the time” from Mr David Fletcher and the blown tyre the other day. I avoid all incidents like that with all airlines and only really get involved if I am told to by editors. Sure I know about Lake Johnson and QF run-off the runways in Darwin and the few Virgin Blue incidents but that simply frightens passengers unnecessarily. However, if CASA gets involved than clearly we have to.

Please remember MU2 that I have not reported to the wider public the following:
1. Skywest’s chief pilot “failing” his F100 endorsement.
2. Skywest trying to get engineers for the F100 through NJS in Adelaide.
3. Skywest cutting back 27% on its maintenance costs.
4. Skywest engineers ringing to voice concerns about cut backs.

MU2….”How about Skywest's 40th Birthday? Ok it started from Carnarvon Air Taxis or whatever and they traced their roots back.”

GT…..Sure would have made an interesting topic BUT nobody from Skywest gave us advanced notice and I was away in the EAST the day the press release went out so it was old news. Besides we did nothing for Qantas’ 80th!!

MU2….“And when you report something, there always seems to be something that you drag back in that's old news but you repeat it like a broken record.... (or is it pading for your word quota?).”

GT….As with all stories we attempt to bring the reader up to date with what has gone before. The fact is very simple. If an airline dumps its high profile CEO in a massive board room spill and the other board members are themselves “high profile” and have an “interesting history” then its news like it or not.

MU2….”I don't really care who your analysts are, but if you can't say who then don't use them or their quotes or information. Very poor indeed. I bet Media Watch would have a field day!!!!!”

GT “Every newspaper around the world and trade journal use anonymous analysts. In fact the best ones DO not want to be quoted and often the ones who do are just trying to build their image and are novices.

MU2….As for Bias….."Somebody mentioned BM suing. Yes he has and for damn good reason and has won every time and may do so over Skywest" - well doesn't that record get played again and again in the West...."They take on BM at their peril" - ...
"Now for the bad publicity." & "I have not bothered to report...." you have now.

GT…Hang on I was given a serve on PPrune by an “anonymous” person and it is my right to reply and set the record straight. And talking of anonymous, you get stuck into me for quoting un-named analysts when the 61,000+ members of PPrune are all but about three, anonymous!

MU2 ……PPS.YOUR QUOTE.....So let’s get the facts straight. As Gaunty said: I know a great deal more about what is going on than has been reported. Well i very much doubt that. AND THAT IS A FACT.

GT…What can I say. I do know a great deal more but to elaborate in this forum would expose certain sources which is not an option.

The question for Skywest is “where is the airline and where is it going.” It has a leaner operation under it in Skippers and an extremely well run jet charter/RPT operation in NJS above it. Skywest is marginalized and has few options to expand. When you add to that the position of the airliner’s owners and their apparent objectives then you have a difficult situation. I have tried to leave them alone and have in fact written a couple of positive articles when SH joined and then detailing the re-structure.

Hope I have covered the points you raise.

Best GT

[MU2]

ABARIO,

He's called a MANAGER GROUND OPERATIONS and they have alway's had one.

APOLLO,

Your information is incorrect.

G. T.

You still don't know what your talking about.

[Apollo 4]

MU2

Sir I suggest that you are in a state of deep deep denial.

As for GT's information I am sure his sources are similar to my own and that he is spot on the money and you Sir are the one who has no idea. Your reply posts serve only to demonstrate your lack of objectivity and ignorance.

I sincerely hope that you are not a flight crew member, for it is inherrently dangerous to have a person up the front who cannot admit when he is wrong.....(someone who never makes a mistake or gets it wrong) tragic consequences are generally only a matter of when not if.

:uhoh: :ooh:

[geoffrey thomas]

MU2...So I don't know the facts...

Well what about you telling me and others why we are so wrong and while you are at it please advise me where I have written "all the little ins and outs of the company which are hardly newsworthy". Perhaps you can quote dates and pages in the "West".
I wait with great interest.
GT

You know you remind me of a Skywest captain who rang me on behalf of the airline to put me straight on a "few matters" and to let me know how little BM knew about airlines. This gentleman then told me that BM had "no experience with a jet airline."
I reminded him of East West airlines and told him to check his facts and come back to me....never heard from him again..funny that.

[MU2]

APOLLO 4.

I CAN ONLY SAY THE 4 MUST BE YOUR IQ.

GT.

YOUR WRONG AGAIN.

[geoffrey thomas]

MU2...all you can say is "I'am wrong again"

Clearly you can't answer my question.
Show me where I have written "all the little ins and outs of the company which are hardly newsworthy".
You can't reply because I didn't it is simply as that. And in fact the contrary is the case.
I would say to you..."Put up or........ up".
Like that Skywest Captain...we're not hearing from you either!!!

[MU2]

GT.

THERE ARE MANY WHO WISH YOU WOULD S....UP.


END

[Apollo 4]

MU2

I see that you have fallen into the trap of getting personal when the argument is lost. GT has called your bluff, you now have the opportunity to rebutt his intelligent argument and logical statement of fact or continue with your monosyllabic grunts and insults.

It would serve you well to analyse your actions and assess your own IQ status for entering into a debate for which you have not the slightest insight.

Like GT says PUT UP OR SHUT UP here is your chance !!!

:yuk: :yuk:

A word of caution to the author of the below PM to myself...

Firstly Truth is a legal excuse to the charge of slander and by your signed PM confession I believe you to be Guilty as Charged. Secondary employment by any name is "moonlighting"..

Secondly I do not take kindly to anonymous threats and suggest that this type of behaviour is nothing short of disgraceful, especially from as you put it "nice guy". PPRUNE is in essence a forum to express facts,rumours and ideas between fellow aviators with the intent of enhancing communication and understanding.

If you repeat this type of threat I will publish your name with the threat... that is a promise.



29th April 2003 13:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Watch yourself
Look mate, just a word of caution about your posting. Make sure you get your facts right (re: XR FO's moonlighting at Ad Astral) if you had bothered to ask I personally am trying to do two things. Firstly, putting something back into the industry and trying to help the new guys and secondly I am also helping a great boss and friend out by picking up excess work for him. Your posting could have been taken as a personal slander but seeing as I'm a nice guy we shall leave it at that eh::

[geoffrey thomas]

Surely, surely, MU2 you can do better than that. Please tell me you can do better than that.

YOU made the statement and now you can't cite once instance of me mentioning "all the little ins and outs of the company which are hardly newsworthy"

BUT I have left out some great page one stuff such as....

Skywest trying to get engineers for the F100 through NJS in Adelaide...Skywest cutting back 27% on its maintenance costs.
...Skywest engineers ringing to voice concerns about cut backs.

ALL these are page ONE my friend and I could take a month off with those three. BUT not one made the pages of the west...NOT one!!

So get your damm facts right NEXT time. AND don't shoot the messenger....look to your board.

AND by the way, Skywest still haven't given the Government the assurances that they can meet its debts. I am advised a second extension has been asked and granted till late this week....BUT you didn't read it in the West did you.

I am certain that the Commonwealth Bank will roll over the lease on the F-50s as they have no choice. BUT can the Skywest board give a G/tee that they can meet Skywest's debts when they fall due?

GT

[MU2]

APOLLO,
YOU HAVE THE WRONG GUY, DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR ON ABOUT, BUT AS PER NORM YOU ARE GETTING THINGS WRONG.

[Woomera]

MU2

You are treading on VERY thin ice, if you don't temper your posts, you're outa here.

Nothing works better than rational, well thought through posts, in dealing with opposition.

Name calling and shut your gob stuff doesn't work.

Lets deal with the issues not the person here, shall we.

[Valdiviano]

are some of this clowns tech crew?
if yes, i hope i never have to be one their pax

[outback aviator]

I have an idea, why don't all combatants retire to their respective corners and revisit this thread in about a years time.

If Skywest no longer exists there is no subject for argument.

How about that??

[gaunty]

MU2

As one of the founding fathers :rolleyes: of the Skywest regional RPT empire and the FIFO business, I gotta tell you a cuppla truths.

Bill and I were hardly ever "buddies", but he did know how to "fight" when it was necessary.

Without the Ansett connection before (and without Big Bro Stowe before then) and after, it is a cold and bitter wind that now blows around their ankles.

NOTHING has changed the viability of ANY of the routes they now serve.

The routes to be dropped off were NEVER routes on their own in the first place, without subsidy, Commercial or Government.

They are holding by misguided Government support, the poisoned chalice which is the unique Western Australian aviation marketplace, and the graveyard of anyone who is unable to obtain either;

1. Government subsidy to support financially uneconomic but vital socially economic routes.

and/or

2. Federal and State legislation that taxes FIFO orgs or the miners that use it, if they are within an appropriate radius of an approved RPT serviced airport, located in an existing open community. EG Leonora to the point where there is NO difference in costs.

and/or

3. A BIG Brohter

I know how it should work but I choose not to reveal it here.

The FIFO business is directly in the Governments face.
What they save in NOT having to provide mining community infrastructure should be used to subsidise the affected local communities access to RPT as part of the social contract.
And I'm NOT talking 30 year old FAR23 Navajos here.
They have actually collected "license" money from miners in lieu for FIFO rights.
Where has that gone, as if we don't know.?:mad:

Big Brother AN, using Ansett WA and Skywest as a monopoly to feed their mainline and forgoing the subsidy, to the Governments delight, to gain this dubious privilege, is gone forever we are right back to where we started.

Giving back a "monopoly" to Skywest on some routes is interesting, BUT, it's subsidy or, no FIFO time, AGAIN and as usual.

Without that it's just the ususal mouthful of feathers.

Bill might not have been the easiest person with whom to get along with and I can't believe I'm saying this but, he was a quick learner and had a fairly good grip on the realities of how the WA market really works.:D

Transport State have the power, but seem to have forgotten how to use it, as they did to everybodies benefit in the past.

I'm sure Mr Henderson, whom I have not had the pleasure of meeting personally, may well be wondering what he has gotten himself into.
I don't doubt his "airline management credentials" but that is only a very very small part of the game here.
I'm sure the Board, notwithstanding Mr Ryans Chairmanship know either.
Perhaps its the blind talking to the deaf again.:uhoh:

I don't see anyone there who would have the faintest idea of where to start, now that the quick in and out "float" routine isn't going to play now or probably, ever.

Skippers might run a tight FIFO operation but that is several very tall mountains away from regional RPT.

Sorry Stan, but if your men are suggesting that RPT is just what you're doing on your FIFO charter except on a really regular basis, then start kissing whatever you may have made so far goodbye.

You gotta know when to hold em and know when to fold em.

If you missed the Coroners recommendations in the Central Air inquest, then go have another look, coz right in there is the answer to Skywests dilemma and the change agent you both need to survive.

The passing of AN and QF and DJs reaction to it, has fundamentally changed the dynamics of the National arena and the very foundations of this States market.

It's still not too late for either, it's just whether you pick up on it or not.

GT and I have a more than passing knowledge of the way it really is.

I certainly despair watching, as they all continue to reinvent the ways of losing money, enjoy seeing how close the "Press Release" I have written in my mind to "explain" an "adverse outcome", one of the euphemisms used in the medical profession to describe the death of a patient under their care, is, to that which is actually published.

I am rarely surprised.

Deja Vu.:\

[jetpipe]

Gaunty

Your post sums up the states aviation scene pretty well.

We have a small regional airlines squashed from above by QF and trapped below by Skippeers, both who compete in totally different markets.

Regional RPT is very different to main line RPT and even further away from charter ops.

The issue here seems to be can Skywest survive it's own mistakes or will it learn from other peoples?

May be now that all of Skywest's mistakes have been aired on these pages, the future can be left to prove who is correct.

[Xeptu]

Well!!! It must be time to add my two bobs worth. I read this thread with more than a passing interest. I have been around for long enough and know all the principle players that this thread refers, that is except GT.

No offence GT but I have noticed that you never seem to miss an opportunity to blow wind up BM’s arse, such, that I reckon it would be a fair guess that you two would have to be mates. If this is the case, then you need to ask yourself, are you able to write unbiasedly?

I have personally been in battle with BM and WS too, for comparible arguments sake (WS, one of the founding directors of NJS) I can tell you that both these individuals in their day were very dynamic, sharp businessmen. I would say WS had the edge by a good margin. He would have been the most dynamic, probably the best I had seen in that era and indeed it was a privilege to have been a part of it. I don’t want to take anything away from either of these individuals, they were good in their day but that was nearly 20 years ago and like all great fires, eventually burn out.

I’m sorry to have to say, but BM has been away too long, his style unchanged. I liken him to a 70’s rock star making a come back wearing the same outfit, singing the same songs. It was never going to work.

SH (new CEO of XR) however, is a good man and shows all the signs of being a great CEO, he’s sharp and can dance to the music in today’s market. Naturally, as in any business there may be weakness in some areas, but that’s to be expected, show me a company without them. I am confident he will be good for XR and will deliver.

Finally, lets not forget the staff, there are a lot of good people in there and they deserve some respect in this very demanding time.

While I’m on the topic of staff, my regards to those at REX, you guys appear to be doing well, my heartiest congratulations. Well done!!!:ok:

[rubyredlive]

:ok: :ok: Well said I completely agree with the last post, is it not about time, people gave XR a break, they deserve it !!!!

For all those bitter and twisted "let go" and "move on with your lives" no use wallawing in self pitty......it will get you no where..

ON YA SKYWEST HOPE YOU KEEP SOARING THRU THE SKY'S

and to SH and all the staff, I can only hope that when the S&^% hits the fan in my place we have as many dedicated and loyal people as you to try thir hardest to keep things a float a big pat on the back for you all :D :D

[greybeard]

History is a funny thing,

Good old MMA, a real Airline, owned and operated in WA in the 1960s, was SUBSIDISED to the tune of $1000.00 A DAY in 1967 to operate DC-3s to the so called "Socially Neccessary" places in WA.
Laverton, Leonora, Esperance, Norseman, Cue, Wiluna, Sandstone, Mount Magnet, Yalgoo, Mullawa and a host of places further North.

Now we add Geraldton, Carnarvon, Albany and others.

Geraldton got two jets a day in 1989, ? today.

Times change, roads, cars and modern E-mail, tele conferencing have changed the social fabric, but the cross subsidy of the majors to the other places was a part of the past and seems to be still needed.

[geoffrey thomas]

Couldn't agree more lets give Skywest a break and that is what I have done. The problem is MU2 keeps accusing me of bring up all the ins and outs of the airline BUT cannot cite on instance.
As you will see from earlier posts I have left out many front page stories. As for BM he may be a "70s rock star" in some eyes BUT he has forgotten more about the airline industry than most will ever know.
GT

[aerosoul]

OK OK now we know how great you think BM is :rolleyes: How much does he pay you...:D

[geoffrey thomas]

Come on aersoul you can do better than that, you're almost as bad as MU2...cheap shots and nothing to back it up.
Never had a flight on Skywest nor Virgin Blue for that matter and most flights on airlines are paid for.
Don't own shares in Qantas or any airline and with the inside track I have had could have done rather well...certainly better than Rivkin did.
Am I a saint? Hell no, just attempting to report the facts.
And the fact is that people like BM, Hugh Davin and Bob Mason are miles ahead of the pack when it comes to running airlines.
So are Rod Eddington and Geoff Dixon for that matter.
And Xeptu there is one fundamental in this industry that will NEVER change and that is if the board of an airline knows little or nothing about the industry or has another agenda--or worse both---then the airline is domed to failure.
Look at history Howard Hughes and TWA, Ichan with TWA, Lorenzo with Continental, Ramili with Malaysian, Tan with Philippine Airlines and who could forget Brierley with Air NZ/Ansett. Utter disaster!!
Eventually the real story of Skywest will come out and much of what BM stood for will be vindicated.
WMC thought so much of him it torn up the contract that was to be signed that would have been the savior of the airline when BM was dumped. That is a fact!
So lets stick to the facts and not the person.
GT

[MU2]

WMC thought so much of him it torn up the contract that was to be signed that would have been the savior of the airline when BM was dumped. That is a fact!
So lets stick to the facts and not the person.
GT

SORRY TO DISAPPOINT YOU GT BUT YOU HAVE GOT IT WRONG AGAIN.

THE FACT IS THE THAT QF HAD THE WMC CONTRACT AUST WIDE AND WHEN AN/YT WENT DOWN, WA CAME UNDER THE SAME OPERATION AS THE OTHER STATES.
THE CONTRACT STILL WENT TO TENDER THOUGH, TO KEEP NJ/QF'S PRICE DOWN, BUT IT WAS NEVER GOING TO ANYONE BUT QF, AND THATS FROM WMC HO, AND THEY ARE THE FACTS.

[geoffrey thomas]

MU2:

The contract was in the last stages of sign off, with only insurance left to be finalised, when Meeke was dumped.
Like Rio Tinto, WMC wanted to see several viable operators in this state and on the short sectors for WMC jet speed was not really a factor. I have spoken to representatives of WMC had they have confirmed to me that Meeke leaving was the end of the deal as far as they were concerned.
One person in Skywest was told about this BUT my understanding is he chose not to tell his fellow executives--wonder why?

By the way MU2 I am still waiting for you to BACK UP your last attack against me alleging that I print "all the ins and outs" of the airline.
If you can't perhaps an apology might be in order, although I will not hold my breath.
GT

[Capn Laptop]

Geoffrey,

Hate to tell you old chap, but the second name you mentioned in your post couldn't, in my humble opinion, manage a root in a brothel.

If you have a look at the history of the deals that this bloke has done, you wonder how NJS is still in business. mmm lets see - the century zinc deal where he quoted for one way of a return trip. The J41 "the most profitable aeroplane in the fleet!" to name a few.

NJs had the cheapest Dash-8 in town for quite a while "to get into the market".....

If he is in front of the pack, I'd rather be at the back!

[MU2]

GT
I am sorry but i have to stand by my information from wmc {i maybe a little closer than you} and that is, what i know and have been told is 100% correct.

[geoffrey thomas]

Captain Laptop

Well NJS are in business and doing damm well all over Australia and HD is a large part of that success so I guess that you can stay at back of the pack then...your choice!

MU2
You and many others are told a variety of things, many of which may not be true. The shareholders of Skywest could bail the company out of its problems in an instant BUT they so far choose not to. Ever wonder why?
By the way I hear that SH is to be a director of Skywest...now that is a good move.
GT

[MU2]

Quote.
You and many others are told a variety of things, many of which may not be true

GT, i just cant see why it's always you get told the truth and others not, or maybe you just can't face the fact that you maybe wrong.

YES YOUR RIGHT SH to director will be a good move.

[Apollo 4]

MU2

Give it a rest, you have been totally and utterly embarrassed by your own omission to respond to G.T’s challenge previously to “put up or shut up”. You have attacked him and ridiculed him without anything but empty platitudes to back it up. If you are a member of Skywest then you only serve to prove GT’s point.
I can support GT in his assertion regarding the WMC deal, he is unequivocally correct. Along with companies like North (wholly owned by Rio Tinto), WMC was keen for XR to survive to provide some competition and what did XR do dump the person who held the key to prosperity. I believe it was no secret that BM wanted jets and fast, equally the board didn’t want jets and frustrated and filibustered BM every step of the way. Why ? because the board and major shareholders are not interested in spending money to make money, they are interested in hidden agendas which revolved around get in float and pi$$ off with a profit. XR will end up paying BM, you can bank on it….

Aero soul

Rsole I too have a good word for BM not for the personality but for the contributions that he has made towards keeping the likes of us in the air when we were still wet behind the ears. East-West was a great help to my career. If you choose to hold a counter view to that of GT then that is your right, however I would like to hear you counter GT’s view with an intelligent debate devoid of ridicule, sarcastic malice and platitudes. If not give it away, give it away now!

:ok: :ooh: :D

[Capn Laptop]

Geoffrey,

you need to get out more.

if you had an objective view at NJS and how they are going you would see that all is not well.

5 aeroplanes are going back to the lessor this year. The FIFO work is steady but not growing and is not a particularly profitable area.

The person to which we refer has been responsible for some monumental stuff ups that cost a LOT of money. Ask him about the Century Zinc contract some time....

[geoffrey thomas]

I don't know, Captain Laptop, MU2 thinks I have been in the sun too long. Of course HD, BM and Bob M would never suggest they are perfect--thankfully none of us is.

But let’s get down to facts shall we.

The five aircraft you refer to are of course the magic dragons whose leases come up this year. It is up to Qantas if they are retained---nothing really to do with Hugh...unless you think he is responsible for SARS??
Factors that are to be taken into consideration are....general state of the economy and Qantas' longer term regional aircraft replacement plans that are in limbo at the moment.
Don't forget that QF has a small fleet of 717s that have replaced BAe 146s on some routes.
My guess is that some of those five BAe 146s will go.
As for Century Zinc in QLD, HD went in with what was a viable bid for NJS to make money but Alliance came in with a lower figure. That happens as it did in WA with Argyle and Skywest. I think the jury is out on both those contracts. Let’s see who’s right in 12-months?
As far as QLD is concerned there may well have also been some political pressure applied to support the local airline. Would make sense to me.
You mention there have been several "stuff ups"...what are the others?
Perhaps I can run one by you.
HD put together NJS's Coastwatch contract and that is nothing short of a spectacular success.
He has also beaten Skywest off with Anaconda and Telfer in the past few months so that is not bad going I guess.
Over to you!!
GT

[jetpipe]

Geoffrey

A thought for you to ponder on......................

As you are aware both Murrin Murrin and Telfer have been NJS customers for many years. Murrin since it was started and NJS since they topled Questair.

With the shift patterns of this type of minning operation set up around a 70 seat service did you expect Skywest to beat them with a 100 seat jet?

Even if it is up against a 146?

Or could it be that these mines used the threat of competiton to keep the NJS price down for fear of losing more work. After all what are they going to do with 5 spare 146's and all of those crews if they had to park the RJ as well?

[geoffrey thomas]

Jetpipe: Good post but the point I was trying to make is that HD is winning or retaining contracts NOT losing them.
For Skywest a low ball price on the F100 may have made sense to try and up the utilization to offset the basic costs which are to a large extent fixed.
The other point is that the five BAe146s being returned to lessors relate to QantasLink's requirements and if they do go back then HD can hardly be blamed for that!
GT

[Capn Laptop]

You have to wonder what the point is of winning contrct that either break even or cost money.

if you look into the history of NJS FIFO contrcts you will see that the hourly rate charged is not enough to cover the true cost of providing the service.

with the Airlink cash cow dieing the days of having engineering provided by Airlink (at QF expense) and working on the Dash's are gone

the FIFO contracts will need to standon their own feet. And it is my belief that they won't because they are written at a cost that gets the work, not that pays the bills.

Again have a look at Century inc and find out why the contract ended abruptly - it wasn't because Alliance came in with a cheaper quote. It was because the contract price only covered ONE way of a TWO way flight

Your loyalty is admirable if some what misguided.

[geoffrey thomas]

Captain Laptop: This is not about my loyalty its about reality. I am sure than in all cases contracts are looked at both on a case by case basis then in the bigger regional picture and then even in an overall company Australia wide objective.
Thus NJS may elect to go in on a break even situation to establish itself in a market or retain a critical market. It also needs economy of scale, something that Skywest is battling to establish as it downsizes.
Overall NJS is doing well in a difficult market and picking up a few from Skippers I understand. I am sure there are contracts that may be break even or perhaps in a slightly negative position but overall the company is in good shape---which is way better than most right now.
GT

[I'm with stupid]

Throw in my 2 cents worth here, NJS are not really losing 5 146s as they picked up 3 when Southern was closed down, so really only losing 2 and as GT says, certainly not HDs fault.

However I do believe that if good old Wazza was still around, Q/Link ( NJS wise ) would be looking alot healthier, so turn your withering stares about 3000KMs east :yuk:

" you will see that the hourly rate charged is not enough "

Laptop, I assume you are NJS management, coz in my 10 years there as a grunt, I never got close to learning the true lease costs etc. of the 146s, apart from the rumoured costs IE. NJS getting paid to keep NJY ;)

[geoffrey thomas]

MU2...I am still waiting for your reply to back up your allegation that I report every "in and out at Skywest". Would you like me to post all my articles in the past six months on PPrune for everyone to see to help you out?

And for your info I understand from my spies in the CTB that they are going to tick off the continued leases of the F-50s by the end of the week,as The West predicted some months ago.
That I expect will allow Price Waterhouse to signoff on a letter to the State Government confirming that Skywest can currently meet all its obligations.
As you probably know Price Waterhouse are assisting in the capital raising, with regard to audits etc.
Over to you MU2....I am waiting with great interest.
GT

[feels]

GT, you can probably stop with the MU2 chase now - we all see MU2 cowering and embarrased.
By the way, it is becoming increasingly obvious how you are getting your information - don't let your enthusiasm for the kill trip you, or your source, up.
How are the Skywest crew rating XR management at this stage of the re .... structure?

[Capn Laptop]

Stupid,

Actually if you read the series of posts, I was referring in particular to the Dash-8 hourly price, which is fairly common knowledge throughout the FIFO industry.

Not the 146 hourly lease rate!

(Which is surprisingly high in comparison to other types I might add)

The point I was making is that if you CHARGE an hourly rate for your aeroplanes that does not exceed your hourly COSTS, you may as well not have bothered with the contract because you are going to lose money

Other, more educated types, such as journalists and salesman, can't see that running at a loss for YEARS is not the smartest way to make money. Sure go in with a cheap price to get the work when you are getting established and you have other streams of income (Airlink) but when it goes on for years to shifts from cunning salesmanship to utter stupidity.

When you then pull the rug out from the cash producing side of the operation (Airlink) you don't have the backup anymore and the operations where you went in cheap to get the work now have to stand on their own feet.

[I'm with stupid]

Yeah, sorry about that Cap'n Lapdancer, I think you are correct.My understanding was that, almost without exception, charter has always lost money. One of the best examples of that was actually Wazza's favourite toy, the 737.

Not sure I can agree with you on the lease costs of the 146 though, they can't be that bad if they have held onto them for 13 years, and I still maintain that unless you are or were upper management, you would'nt know the actual costs.

[rubyredlive]

:mad: :mad: There you go again GT, just gunning for a fight with MU2!! How about you grow up and just get on with reporting the facts!!

Although my opinion probably means stuff all to you, I have said all along skywest will make it and they need not have worried about the leasing issues. What they need to do is get bums on seats and keep it that way. The rest is just mathmatics.

:bored: :bored:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[geoffrey thomas]

rubyredlive: MU2 has been gunning for me non-stop with a constant stream of allegations and the abuse of me and others was censored..... check his posts. So please have a look for yourself.
We also said the CTB would get the lease extended...they have no choice in the current market.
"Bums on seats? The rest is just mathematics."
Well maybe but at what price. Its leftover not turnover you know.
Part of Skywest's restructure/business plan was a 7% rise in airfares BUT when Virgin and QF are charging $112 one way Perth to Sydney they face an uphill battle in extracting another 7% on intrastate routes.
The next test for Skywest is the float that I guess they will launch soon. Remember this was the float they wanted to kick off
middle of last year and then in December.
I know a number of large shareholders who will not subscribe. This will be a real challenge for them and the airline's forecasts will be interesting.
Skywest survival depends on key shareholders forking out another $2 million plus. Will they have the nerve?
But I think the real key to this problem is a Skywest/Skippers merger then a public float. That would work in theory BUT there are many roadblocks.
Consider this. Skywest brings the RPT experience and Government blessing while Skippers has the lower end of the market and lower costs. Finally you would have economies of scale.
GT

[Capn Laptop]

I can tell you that the lease rates for the -300's (507's) is higher than for a 737-300 in good nick in the current lease market.

This is because the lease rates on the 737-300's have fallen SIGNIFICANTLY since the leases for the 146's were negotiated.

NJT was always higher in terms of monthly rental, with rates on that machine comparable to a new 737-700 now.

The reason that they stuck with them for the last 13 years was that BAe Asset management virtually gave them away in the early days (and NJY is a really good example of that). As the aircraft became more popular - as witnessed by the lack of airframes on the market - the rates went up each time the lease came up for re-negotiation. In the days when Airlink was basically cost plus that really didn't make a great deal of difference.

Now days where the 717 is operated by a subsidiary company (and James Strong is gone) the cost pressures are different.

The problem now is that they can't move into cheap 737's because of the politics within QF (and the 737 can't do what the 146 does in a lot of cases), a replacement aeroplane is very expensive and a few years away - the EMB170/190 - and will require a significant committment from QF to make that happen - NJS are not silly enough to lease a fleet of them on the off chance - they have done that once before with Embraer jets!!

Make no mistake NJS did and does a very good job for QF. I just think that the aeroplane has basically run its race in terms of cost efficiencies, and the political tide is turning away from having outsourced contracts such as NJS. I think that this is a mistake by the way - the way that NJS operates is quite good for QF - they pay a fixed amount per hour and the aeroplane turns up (mostly!) no hassles with people wanting to integrate into mainline, no staff travel hassles, no industrial hassles (they are NJS problems).

The charter side however is a dud.

[aerosoul]

GT
How Skywest is downsizing?

[Mike Huntaches]

whats happening with the christmas cocos contract? are skywest vying for that as well?:sad: