Mi 24 - pics and pilot's perspective

[Gunship]

Great idea and many thanks for the moderators to allow this.

I think we must just all try and minimize the pix sizes.

Bert - you got old my friend - time to get back to Vega$ :)

Here goes my baby
http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/DSC02754.JPG

BLENDERPILOT - Many Thanks ! :)

[Heliport]

Gunship
Some websites that allow you store photographs will not allow direct links. I managed to get Bert's pic to display, but no luck with yours.

Why not email some of your pics to BlenderPilot and let him put them on his website. You can then link direct from your post.

Heliport

That's better. :D

[Gunship]

Tx BLENDERPILOT .... after all these hassles with different sites - your really work ! Many many thanks !



Here is one over my "hometown" :)

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/DSC02662.JPG

[B Sousa]

Guns.......whats this growing old crap.......Im not 60 till the end of the month......Anyway I was freezin my ass off at the Ranch in Arizona. I am in Vegas.............

[Notar fan]

B Sousa
If you're freezin your ass of in AZ at this time of year, then you are either in the wrong part of Az, or you are too old to Know the difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Either way I hope you're warm.

[Gunship]

Eischh guys I will ave to rely on BLENDERPILOT.
My PHOTOBOX worked yesterday but today ... well seems like it is not ....

Blender Pilot - sending you soon and tx in advance.

Bert, you need Tassie's and the grey hair will dissapear.

See you in SA soon.

Notar Fan - sure Bert will just LUVVVEEE thiose comments !

Cheers and have a great day.

Gunnsss ...

[Heliport]

Guns
I also tried PhotoBox. The system doesn't seem to allow direct links and, the indirect link failed after a few hours. I saw your pic before the link failed - very impressive!
When you're able to post it again, tell us a little more about the heli and the type of ops you do.

Heliport

[B Sousa]

Notar fan.
The ranch is up at Grand Canyon West and its been cool lately. Certainly a long way from Mesa..........If your really an MD fan please say Hello to JH down there. He needs to sell a few more Helicopters so we can both retire in South Africa.

[Notar fan]

B. Sousa
Its 88 degrees in the valley this week. I may see JH this week. I don't think he has sold too much lately.......although from what I hear selling isn't MD's problem, its delivering ;)

[Gunship]

Sorry to keep you guys and gals in anticipation for the Mi-24 to attack the ROTORHEAD thread.

I used to be worried about posting but seems like we are legal now. Maybe you guys know about the new law in SA where you are rated as a Mercenary if you work for a foreign country's Defence Force.

Well the death of a Cape Town man, Sholton Hedenskog, who was killed in a helicopter accident in the Iraq war made waves in Parliament.

Pahad said the government did not equate South Africans in the British army with mercenaries in the Ivory Coast.

He went further to say it was a Commonwealth country. So the 300 odd "mercanies" in the Brit Defence Force might be out of trouble. So I might be as well :)

Dunno about the 300 odd SA's in the French Legion though and the Mercanries that looks after Pope John Paul (SWISS ) :}

Ahh off my story ... THANKS Blenderpilot !

Well here is my "rear - end" maybe there are some tail gunners around :o

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/DSC02730.JPG ... Note ... This was for a Parade as we have peace now ... note ... no 80 mm rockets inside the pods :)
But ... the 12,7 mm - 4 barrell gattling in the nose is ALWAYS loaded ;)

[topcat450]

The only reply I can come up with... I want one of what he's got.

<Green with Envy...>

[Gunship]

.... yeah Topcat I wish I can have 202 back ... she is not with us anymore.

11 Sept 01 to remember .. no .... 19 Oct 01 was one of the worst blows in my life and I can not / will not forget the sad day.

To make a long story short : I had a double engine cut and I lost a pax that day. First serious accident and first pax I lost ... not something I will / can ever forget ..and that was the machine in the pics.

Fortunately she did not have pods on, but she had 2 x 400 l underwing fuel pods on. They must have saved a few lives as I put her down in a rice-paddy. What I did not know was that we where burning already a mile before impact. No indications and nothing in my rear - view mirrors :*

She tipped over in the rice paddy but the big (long) fuel tanks must have kept her on the right wing long enough for us to get out.

Funny thing (yes I have a weird sence of humour - but that is what life is about) is , is that after we where all safe ... the flippen 12,7 rounds strated going off and all our personal weopons. And we though we made a safe enough landing. After 20 minutes of ducking and diving it stopped.

Funny as well : I never took my AK or survival jacket - evn left my $200 Ray Ban's. Took my SPRINBOK Cap and my Sony Digital CAmera :)

Yes I did took pics but they are FOR SAL E only :cool:

RIP Major Vanessa Lang :(

Sorry of the point but that WAS 202 .... :mad:

[B Sousa]

See Guns, you still have too learn from us Old Farts. Empty Rocket pods mean you fill them with Beer Cans and hang out at 14,000+ feet for about a half hour. Your out of harms way and you land with Cold Beer........ Do I have to teach you everything.......

[Gunship]

... uncle Bert .. when you where still flying G-Cars and K-Cars - it was BEFORE cans .. did you cool bottles like that :ooh:

So thanks for the tip uncle .. oh and another thing ... have you flown a Russian Chopper before - she DOES NOT LIKE the dreaded HHH ... :}

Hot
High and
Heavy is out .. so no my friend 3 000' AGL I have not seen - never mind 14 000 !!! :{

But thanks for the tip Uncle Bert :E

[Steve76]

Gunship.
Just one comment: SWEET!
How does one become a mercenary?:)
...definately not in an A Model 76 :rolleyes:

[BlenderPilot]

Gunship

You are welcome, I am glad to do it since your pictures are really interesting.

I spent some time in West Africa, and looking at your pictures has brought back good memories, I have only flown around SL but I heard from our Base Manager who had flown in there a lot that it is a beautiful country.

Thanks for sharing those interesting pictures.

And maybe you could tell us a little more about the MI24, I have the following questions:

I read once the 24 was pressurized to seal the crew from chemical attacks, is this true of all 24's?

Is it true that due to the wings it has very particular (dangerous) turning characteristics when using high angle of bank? I've heard it just keeps on turning into a spiral if you are not careful?

Is it true it was never really designed to hover and it can't hover? I read it can't hover for more than 6 cumulative min. during the engines TBO, is this true?

[topcat450]

Yeah thanks for the pics Gunship...and sorry to hear about your bump. :sad:

Having said that...it does look an impressive machine and is somethine I'm unlikely get a ride in...so...hearing first hand is as good as it gets.

[S76Heavy]

I once read a funny story where former East-German Mi24 crews were shown around the West-German PAH1 (Bo 105 AT).

They though that PAH (Panzer Abwehr Hubschrauber?/Anti-Tank helicopter) stood for Plastik Am Himmel (plastic in the sky)..;)

Can understand that line of thinking..:D

[Gunship]

Ok, ok ... I was just joking - I scanned these pics out of a magazine called "Boys Toys". :E



Ok before you sign out ... :p


Q 1: BlenderPilot, the Mi-24's I have flown and seen ALL has seals to inflate for possible chemical warfare. Those are the "P" series also known as the Mi-35 (export version). We have the 4 barrel gattling gun in the nose (12,7mm) but ver sh1t weopon !

The UN here in SL for instance has the side - firing 30 mm apparently a much , much better system and more reliable.

Back to the inflatable seals .... We use it purely to keep COLD Airconditioned Air INSIDE the cockpit as you can imagine the temps 8 Deg North ... :cool:

During the rainy season it sort of keep the rain out but the front cockpit is an absolute nightmare during the rainy season.
You must take a rain coat as you will be WET ... very WET !

I have not been in any chemical stuff - tx G... !

Q 2 : The Wings on the "Hind" is actually incredable. If you do not take fixed wing actions sometimes you will see your ar5e very quickly. Sorry about my bad English and sorry about my non-techniciality - we had to learn the machine ourselves without books. What I am coming down to - DO NOT fly it if you have not got a lot of experience. A rough guide I would say 500 fixed wing and 2000 plus good heli hours. I fell short on the rocket attacks as i never flew Jet's in an Air Force - just Gunships - all with canons. But I HAD to learn quickly to save a55.

I will get a bit more info but as far as I can remember the become effective above 25 km/h to 40 km/h and lift increases by something like 20% !

Re the turn - completely correct and it it bites you VERY quickly - remember 450 Hind's was lost in Afganistan and they reckon only half was shot down.

Sorry must go - :sad: will answer last one later - very interesting one !

Post any more and I will try ! :ok:

[BlenderPilot]

It was very intersting to read your reply to my questions, interesting information.

In regards to how much lift the wings provide, it says here it goes from 22 to 28% depending on airspeed, also you say that you are "self taught" in the aircraft, you mean you didn't attend the sim in FlightSafety? (just kidding)

The US army pilots who fly the 24's the US army has also had to learn by themselves.

And don't worry about the spelling or language, english is also my 3rd language, Espanol es el primero.

When you have time I will love to hear about the "non-existent hovering capabilities".

Thanks again!

[tecpilot]

oh oh Gunship,

i'm so sorry that you are working on the sunny (and really hot) side of the world, :( because if you have been driving such a ship on colder places, you could have much more alcohol than you and your gunner could withstand.
On colder places we used to ignore high volume beers and prefer the high octane filled anti-icing tank. ;) Normal consumption up to 2,5 liters per flight hour says the flight manual and the engineers or is something wrong with the ship....

@BlenderPilot

yes, if the ship is fully loaded and / or armed, it's possible to encounter a hovering problem initiated by the lack of power but don't forget the "payload" is up to 4 tons of fireworks and pax and fuel and... secret

Due to the wings hovering seems a bit unstable compared with other ships.

@ Gunship

pressurized cockpit - yes and may be therefore the only really "dry" helicopter i've flown. Never seen a wet seat.

It's difficult to name russian toys, but the "P" series stands for "puschka" that means canon in russian and is the series with the two-barrel 30mm canon on the right side of the fuselage!

The 4 barrel 12,7 gatling ist the older "D" or the "W" variant.

And that's a photo really from hot and windy AZ "Desert Rescue" 2000 :)

[Heliport]

techpilot

That's a great shot, but too big for the page.
Can you reduce it?
If you don't know how, please would you email the to either BlenderPilot or John Eacott so they can do it.

Thanks


640 x 480 pixels is the ideal size
800 x 600 is the [u]maximum

Heliport

[Gunship]

Great pic tx techpilot .. Save the pic guys before it is taken away :ok: as it is over the max size ...

Is it true it was never really designed to hover and it can't hover?

BlenderPilot from what I can gather it was never supposed to be used as a "hover chopper" - therefore the wings and te fact that it is completelyunderpowered in our conditions !

Before I make a statement let me tell you this fairey tale ... We where once in trouble with the Autopilot systemn - well "my chopper" the one NOT in the pics and the one standing 20 metres from where I am typing ... did not HAVE an autopilot as it did not work. I though nothing of it as I learned to fly Hinds without Autopilots - yes we are a crazy nation :uhoh:

So I took her accross to the UN (Indian at that stage) guys and the helped us a lot.

Well as I cam in to land I hovered as I wanted to get close to a hydraulic rig. I climbed out and here comes the brass ... :}

Hey mon sar mon .. we heve never sin a Mi-24 in the hover !!!

I can tell you - the Indian Airforce teaches there pilots to NEVER go into the hover !

This comander - full colonel and all mon ... said he had 2500 hours on 24's and he has not seen it hover - excet in a test flight and he was the only one signed out to do it ... he asked me how many hours do I have ... well sir 6000 hours ... he never asked me on type (I only had 21 :) )

Well we hovered them EVERY DAY but ... the red lights was just about always on ... but we are thick skinned and we are in war and we did it ... :hmm:

Yes you can say but the accident ... the board said "FATAL ENGINE FAILURE" that shot pieces through the firewall (sh1t Firewall) into the other engine with the end result - one pax gone :ugh: We can not blame it on hovering her but I am sure it had an effect on the engines.

TIP : NEVER EVER trust Russian spares. We received overhauled engines - the only overhaul it had was the spray paint on the outside !

Anyway back to the hover ... yes I have done it many times but she is made for a 300 m runway (like we have now) and uprated engines we have now ... TB3 117 VMA engines and it made a hughe difference ! Same as a PUMA going from a "C" model to "L" model ...

Another point : It must be the worst heli in the hover. You have NO lookout capabilities and no close reference point. (I hover on a close and far reference point)

That is why I say it was build to do a roll - off ! :E


TECHPILOT ... pressurized cockpit - yes and may be therefore the only really "dry" helicopter i've flown. Never seen a wet seat.

It's difficult to name russian toys, but the "P" series stands for "puschka" that means canon in russian and is the series with the two-barrel 30mm canon on the left side of the fuselage!

The 4 barrel 12,7 gatling ist the older "D" or the "W" variant.






Thanks for the pic and your info. Which area are you in as you say Europe but looks a bit sandy like in Sudan ... Libya ?

Anyway ... ours remain wet - we really have serious rain !!! Even the seals so not keep everything out .. but then again they have not bin serviced ...

Our Mi-24's are actually V - models or Mi-35 's (export versions).

Well here is a pic of my car ... hope you guys have a great weekend !



http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/picturejokes/8490.jpg

[tecpilot]

Sorry for the big picture, but it's an official, not classified picture from an army url.
I will remove it.

It was taken in the hot and dusty Arizona desert during the exercise ""Desert Rescue 2000"

The Mi-24 was constructed as an anti-tank helicopter during the cold war days and the ships main weapons are the (several) anti-tank guided missiles to shot while hovering.
Unguided missiles 80mm or 50mm and the canon or the gatling 12,7 are the "inflight weapons".

Hovering is unstable due to the rotor downwash on the wings but possible. The wings increasing the speed with additionally lift.
The newer ships have better engines, but some years ago with engine-vibration-problems. (There is a caution light "Engine-Vibs")

The US got some brand new ships (east german army) from the germans after the reunification and was not unimpressed by fire power and speed.

The germans sold the brand new helicopters ( build 1989) and crying now they have no really combat proven helicopters for their "Out of Area" missions in Bin-Laden-world and the other countrys. :mad:


Here's your pic resized.

Heliport

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/tecpilotmi24.jpg

[BlenderPilot]

thank you very much for answering my questions, its interesting to hear about a helicopter with such particular characteristics.

I am still confused about the hovering capabilities, I spoke to some Mil mechanics yesterday, they are here giving training courses to mechanics who are going to be working on 2 MI26 that were purchased recently, they said the 24 should not be hovered unless in case of an emergency, it has a hovering time limitation of "under 1 hour" between engine overhauls, they explained something about the engine not getting enough air or ventilation, plus the wings severely destroy ground effect which demands too much power. Anyway like in all russian helicopters there are great differences between variants.

Thanks again for all the interesting reading.

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/AerobaticHind.jpg

I found this:

Mi-24 HIND
Mi-25 HIND D
Mi-35 HIND E
The Mi-24, the first helicopter to enter service with the Russian Air Force as an assault transport and gunship, was developed on the basis of the Mi-8's propulsion system. ADDITIONAL missions include direct air support, antitank, armed escort, and air to air combat. The helicopter was used extensively in the Afghanistan War, becoming the "signature" weapon of the conflict. The Mi-24 is a close counterpart to the American AH-64 Apache, but unlike this and other Western assault helicopters it is also capable of transporting up to eight troops. The Russians have deployed significant numbers of HINDs in Europe and have exported the HIND to many third world countries.


The five-blade main rotor is mounted on top of fuselage midsection, while short, stubby, weapon-carrying wings are mounted at the fuselsage midsection. Two turboshaft engines are mounted above body midsection with two round air intakes located just above the cockpit and exhaust ports on the sides of engines. The Hind A fuselage consists of a large, oval-shaped body with a glassed-in cockpit, tapering at the rear to the tail boom. The Hind D fuselage features nose modification with tandem bubble canopies, and a chin-mounted turret. The swept-back tapered tail fin features a rotor on the right on some models, with tapered flats on a boom just forward of the fin.

External stores are mounted on underwing external stores points. Each wing has three hardpoints for a total of six stations. A representative mix when targeting armor formations would be eight AT-6 ATGMs, 750x 30-mm rounds, and two 57-mm rocket pods. The aircraft can store an additional ammunition basic load in the cargo compartment in lieu of carrying troops. Armored cockpits and titanium rotor head able to withstand 20-mm cannon hits. Every aircraft has an overpressurization system for operation in a NBC environment.

The HIND’s wings provide 22% to 28% of its lift in forward flight. In a steep banking turn at slower airspeeds, the low wing can lose lift while it is maintained on the upper wing, resulting in an excessive roll. This is countered by increasing forward airspeed to increase lift on the lower wing. Because of this characteristic, and the aircraft’s size and weight, it is not easily maneuverable. Therefore they usually attack in pairs or multiple pairs, and from various directions.

VARIANTS
Nearly all of the older HIND A, B and C variants have been upgraded or modified to the HIND D or E standard.

* Mi-24D/HIND D: Direct air support.
* Mi-24V/HIND E: Direct air support. Most proliferated version.
* Mi-24P/HIND F: Direct air support. The fixed twin gun cut the turret profile, and empty weight to 8,200 kg, while boosting maximum gross weight to 12,000 kg.
* Mi-24R/HIND G-1: NBC sampling. It has mechanisms to obtain soil and air samples, filter air, and place marker flares.
* Mi-24K/HIND G-2: Photo-recon, and artillery spotting. Has a camera in cabin, gun, rocket pods, but no targeting system.
* Mi-25: Export version of the HIND D.
* Mi-35: Export version of the HIND E. The Mi-35M has a twin barrel 23-mm gun.
* Mi-35P: Export version of the HIND F.

Specifications

Country of Origin Russia
Builder MIL
Date of Introduction 1976 (HIND D)
Role Assault, gunship, antitank
Similar Aircraft AH-1 Cobra (all models), UH-60 Black Hawk, AH-64 Apache, Mangusta A129
Blades Main rotor: 5
Tail rotor: 3
Rotor diameter Main Rotor : 17.3 meters
Tail Rotor: 3.9 meters
Wing span 6.5 meters
Length Length : 21.6 m (rotors turning)
Length : 17.5 m (fuselage)
Height 13 ft., 11 in.
6.5 meters (gear extended)
Cargo Compartment Dimensions Floor Length: 2.5 meters
Width: 1.5 meters
Height: 1.2 meters
Weight Maximum Gross: 11,500 kg
Normal Takeoff: 11,100 kg
Empty: 8,500 kg
Fuel Internal: 1,840 liters
Internal Aux Tank (in cabin): 1,227 liters
External Fuel Tank: 500 liters ea.
Engine 2 x 2,200 shp Isotov TV-3-117 turbines
Maximum speed 168 mph / 335 km/h
Cruising speed 295 km/h
Range Normal Load: 450 km
With Aux Fuel: 950 km
Service Ceiling 4,500 meters
Hover out of ground effect: 1,500 meters
in ground effect : 2,200 meters
Vertical Climb Rate 15 m/s
Max “G” Force 1.75 g
Standard Payload Internal load: 8 combat troops or 4 litters
External weapons load: 1,500 kg
External load (no weapons): 2,500 kg
Armament 12.7-mm 4x Barrel Machinegun, YaKB-12.7:
Range (m): (practical) 1,500
Elevation/Traverse: 20° up to 60° down/ 120°
Ammo Type: HEFI, APT, Duplex, DuplexT
Rate of Fire (rpm): up to 4,500 (pilot selectable)


30-mm Twin Barrel Cannon, GSh-30K:
Range (m): (practical) 4,000
Elevation/Traverse: None (rigidly mounted)
Ammo Type: HEFI, HEI, APT, APE, CC
Rate of Fire (rpm): 300, or 2,000 to 2,600


* 750 - 1x twin 30-mm gun, or
* 1,470 - 12.7-mm 4 barrel turret gun
* 2-12 - AT-2C or AT-6C Spiral ATGMs
* 2-4 - 80-mm S-8 rocket pods (20 ea.)
* 2-4 - 57-mm S-5 rocket pods (32 ea.)
* 940 - GSh-23L twin 23-mm MG pods
* 4 - 250-kg bombs FAB-250
* 2 - 500-kg bombs
* 500 liters External fuel tanks

Most Probable Armament
* HIND D: Turret-mounted 4-barrel 12.7-mm Gatling type machinegun, 57-mm rockets, AT-2C/ SWATTER ATGMs.
* HIND E: Turret-mounted 4-barrel 12.7-mm Gatling type machinegun or twin barrel 23-mm turret gun, 57-mm rockets, AT-6C/ SPIRAL ATGMs.
* HIND F: Fixed 30-mm twin gun on the right fuselage side, 57-mm rockets, AT-6C/ SPIRAL ATGMs.

Loaded combat troops can fire personal weapons through cabin windows.
Sensors FLIR, RWR, laser designator
AVIONICS
* The ATGM targeting system uses a low-level light TV, a laser designator, FLIR, air data sensor, and a missile guidance transmitter.
* HIND D versions are primarily daytime aircraft only. Some HIND E and Mi-35 series export versions have upgraded night and weather capabilities, better avionics, weather radar, autopilot, HUD, GPS, NVG compatibility, more armor, and an increased weapons load provided by the French company Sextant Avionique.
Survivability
* Main and tail rotors electrically deiced.
* Infrared signature suppressors can be mounted on engine exhausts.
* Radar warning receivers, IFF, Infrared jammer, rotor brake, chaff and flares.
* Armored cockpit.
Crew Two (pilots in tandem cockpits)
Cost
User Countries At least 34 countries -- Armenia, Afghanistan, Algeria, Angola, Belarus, Bulgaria, Cambodia, CIS, Cuba, Czech Republic, Ethiopia, Georgia, Germany, Hungary, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Mongolia, Mozambique, Nicaragua, North Korea, Peru, Poland, Slovakia, South Yemen, Syria, Ukraine, Vietnam

[Gunship]

Once again many tx for the upload BP !

(THE REST OF THE POST WAS EDITED AS I WAS PI55ED !) - Sorry about that :yuk:




am still confused about the hovering capabilities, I spoke to some Mil mechanics yesterday, they are here giving training courses to mechanics who are going to be working on 2 MI-26 that were purchased recently, they said the 24 should not be hovered unless in case of an emergency, it has a hovering time limitation of "under 1 hour" between engine overhauls, they explained something about the engine not getting enough air or ventilation, plus the wings severely destroy ground effect which demands too much power.

Well BlenderPilot YOU have given US the answer ! Many many thanks ! We always knew there was a limitation but as MOST Russian documents you will not find it in writing anywhere !

As I said before ... the Indian Pilot basically told me NOT to hover ! It all makes sense now :uhoh:

Yes BP once again - well said - the hovering in the Hind is not a favourite passtime and also the roll - characteristics :ooh:

My hang over is too much so ley me post these pics , go fishing for the day and I will be back tonight ;)

These pics are 1999 (as you can see the quality was still 40 kb 640x 480 dpi - stuff the moderator will love :ok: )

Here we go ...

My first Solo flight ... note NO Gunner in the front (think they where too scared me think)

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/cassie_solo_1ste_opstyg.jpg

Coming in to land after first Solo ...

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/Rdl00201.jpg

A landing ... note the drop tanks (500 L of fuel each) but NO weapons ... one or the other - NOT both or you are overweight ... more on that later !

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/PIC00020.JPG


Have a great weekend ...

[discobeast]

hey gunship!

didn't the good old SAUK do a doco on you and the war in SL a couple of years ago? just wondering if you might the the same person. if you are, do you know an ex SAAF pilot called Danie Schutte?

dankie! ;)

[Smoketoomuch]

Fascinating pics and stories Guns, many many thanks. Please tell us much more about your experiences of operating tthe Hind - nothing 'sensitive' obviously, but considering how many of these beasties have been used I've never read any first hand accounts, its very rare to hear any tales of what its like to fly Soviet hardware of any type.
You write very well and must have lots of interesting stories.

[Gunship]

Morning all,

Here is a more sober outlook - after a great day's fishing ..:ok:

discobeast said :

hey gunship!

didn't the good old SAUK do a doco on you and the war in SL a couple of years ago? just wondering if you might the the same person. if you are, do you know an ex SAAF pilot called Danie Schutte?

dankie!

Lo DiscoB,

Yes.
Yes, but just remember him by name. Quite a few years after me if I have the same person in mind.

Smoketoomuch said :

Fascinating pics and stories Guns, many many thanks. Please tell us much more about your experiences of operating tthe Hind - nothing 'sensitive' obviously, but considering how many of these beasties have been used I've never read any first hand accounts, its very rare to hear any tales of what its like to fly Soviet hardware of any type.
You write very well and must have lots of interesting stories.

Lo Smokey,

Tx for that. As said before - I am trying but the language / spelling and sentences are awkwardly wrong sometimes - sorry.

I am actualy not of the "tell it all - type" . There are too many of them around and too many sh!t written about "us" . I mean just go through the latest "Soldier of Fortune" - lot of cr@p wriiten about guys just doing there job.

Anyway - I will give the non - journalist type of info. This is purely for interest sake as I pressume there are not many of us that can speak English.

I am trying to get hold of Tom Bradford (his username) - he has vasts more amounts of knowledge about THE MACHINE ... especially re the Weapons !

So here goes my little input ....


I think to get a better inside of the Mi-24 / Mi-35 / Hind .. let us have a look at the instruments ..

When the Russians build the machine in thelate 60's / 70's size mattered ... fuel economics and ergonomics was not an issue and not in the dictionary's.

To start her up takes a lot of dog fcuk and bad reasoning - as it is a flash of hands and arms and stretching to get / reach everything in the most un- ortodox fashion.

Here is the back left eye panel. Containing Intercome switches (the 2 up one's) and then Gyro's /HF radio/ ... warning testers and the likes ... all on / off switches or testers like "NATASHA" the Russian voice systemn !

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/Instruments 1.jpg

This is the Fuel switches. Also a great windscreen wiper systemn that REALLY works well ! That is the 4 way toggle switch top - left ..

Below that is the HF radio and to the right starting to appear is the FIRE Warning panel.

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/Instruments 2.jpg

6 More to come ... just taking a break ...

[Gunship]

Just to break away from the instruments .. Here is a pic taken of a pod we have fitted with 2 x 4 barrel 7.62 mm machine guns and a one 4 barrel 12.7 mm. Quite a bit of firepower .. The 4 barrel 12.7 mm is the same as in the nose, except the nose one can be moved by the Gunner / Co-Pilot left / right up and down as he has a lever control system with him.

The Commander can just shoot in a straight position through the main sight.

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/pod.jpg


Here is a shot of the 57 mm rockets on the practise range … they can be fired at 4 at a time 8 / 16 or all 32 at once on each side !

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/rockets.jpg


Here is our Mi-24 Runway being used by a Mi-26. It is approximately 300 metres long and at sea level. What you see next to the helipad is a “creek” with seawater and a 5 mile long beach just past it. The forklift is a 20 ton container forklift ... just to get an idea. Also look at my Nissan Patrol parked at the end of the runway .. she is massive !

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/Mil26HeliFromAirMASSIVE.jpg

[mi24history]

hey gunship!!

I am researching the history of the Mi-24 worldwide, and I think you can help me! I hope you will.

In order to obtain information about histories of individual Hinds, I am looking for the russian manufacturer-number of your beauty! It can be found on a little plate on the bulkhead behind the hatch in the aft fuselage/beginning of tail.
The manufacturer-number is also sometimes painted on the side of the wings, on the fuselage under the wings, or in the inside of the cabinedoors.

I hope you can help me on this, because this would help me very much getting the history of this rare Hind !!!


Speak to you...
Martin

[Gunship]

Lo Mi24history !

Will do my best and get it tomorrow. Once I have the one I will get the burned out wreck's from the logbooks. We also have another one accross at the international airport which will take a bit longer to investigate - but I will het there for you !

I see the instruments wasn't a hit ... so here is one of the camera on the wing tip sticking out. In the back is the "Kamajors" - a "civillian fighting force" against the Rebels during the War - years.

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/CameraPodandKamajors.jpg

On final approach from the back cockpit (a nightmare to look out !) Note the drift measurement indicators on the pitot tube. Inside the cockpit you can see the sights and the manual pipper of the 12,7 mm Schuka.

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/DSC00086.JPG

A view from the bottomn : Note 4 pods (80 mm - 20 rockets per pod)

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/DSC02829.JPG

[BlenderPilot]

I would like to see if you could take some pictures of the Rotorhead, I also don't know if the armoring is visible, but I would like to see that too if possible, and some pictures of the passenger compartment would also be great.

And tell me, I've been around the Mi8 and the Mi17 and as you know one of them starts up w/lead acid batteries only, and the other has the nice APU, and starts pneumatically.

How do you start? Pneumatically? or with Raw Batt Power?

If you have an APU can it be used the same way as the Mi8 or Mi17's APU's which can be used to provide electricity and heat overnight for a medium size camp?

Can it be flown from both positions? What's your normal cruise speed and VNE at SL?

How do you communicate with the passengers in the back BTW?

What do the Drift Sensors do?

[discobeast]

gunns

pls check your pm

[NickLappos]

Steve76,
Had a chance to fly air combat test flights at Pax river back in the mid 80's.
Believe it or not, an armed S-76 can tie most helicopters in knots in air combat. At about 9200 lbs, it has the weapons load, endurance, agility and maneuverability to beat most helos (especially a truck like the Mi-24). A BO or BK is quite nice, even better if you don't count weapons pointing.

[helmet fire]

Nick,

Verrrrry jealous of the air combat fun (I mean "experiments" of course ;) ). But I would like to have a go at your generalisation in the spirit that I acknowledge that generalisations may be good rules of thumb, but not always supported by specifics:


an armed S-76 can tie most helicopters in knots in air combat. At about 9200 lbs, it has the weapons load, endurance, agility and maneuverability to beat most helos

When the Tiger came to Townsville in Oz to show off its firing (and crash) capabilities to the Oz Army, Pierre The Famous French Helicopter Pilot (I think that is what his name was!!) asked a crew of Huey Gunship mates to go out into the range and he would come out, hunt them down and "kill" them.

Huey 1. :ok: Tiger nil. :{ :{ :{

Obviously as a result of the Huey's agility and manoeuvrability :} :} :}

But the Tiger won the war - it got the contract and the Huey will be retired.
:{

[BlenderPilot]

Quidam,
If you would like, repost them with the links I sent you and I will erase this post so you can add your comments.

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/EagleMi241.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/EagleMi242.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/EagleMi243.jpg

[Spaced]

That is still the coolest paint job I have seen anywhere.:ok:

[NickLappos]

helmet fire,
Good comment! That Tigre pilot deserved what he got, challenging pilots to a battle in home turf terrain! In approximate order of importance, here is my estimate of the relative value of the attributes of an air combat aircraft:

The Pilot - training, aggression, experiance, knowledge
Aircraft sensors - find first, kill first
Aircraft signatures - stay hidden, control the battle
Aircraft weapons - close the deal
Aircraft maneuverability and agility - get into firing position

[tecpilot]

Absolutely right Nick!

but add "Fire and Forget" - capability to stay mobile + long distance weapons - to stay outside the bad boys punishing distance to your weapons point

@ Nick and helmet fire

"Aircraft sensors - find first, kill first
Aircraft signatures - stay hidden, control the battle
Aircraft weapons - close the deal
Aircraft maneuverability and agility - get into firing position"

no questions about that - the Tiger looks better !!!

[Gunship]

Lo BlenderPilot. Tx for your interesting questions. I will try and answer them ...

Pictures : Tuesday after the long weekend.

APU : ALL Mi-24's can ONLY be started with an APU. No APU - no start. Ok I know there is a "jippo" way but take it as the ONLY way. Yes different Mi-8 / 17's start with battery or APU.

Mi-8T model starts with batteries, MT and MTV (as far as I remeber with APU).. will find out. Also tailrotor on different sides.

I start the APU with raw battery power. Yes the APU can Power up a camp. But.... it has a half an hour continues run time - so yes but with restrictions.

Yes it can be flown front and rear but the front is VERY 5hit. Very akward seating position in relation to stick and rudders. Remember the Russian Crew Commander / Mission Commander / Gunner sat in the front - normally can not fly. Only the front cockpit crew member can arm the armament with a series of circuit breakers. Russian doctrine for escaping Pilot's ? Very little outside / side front views - no mirrors.

Remeber the aircraft flies at about an 8 degree nose down position. Then sight improves a lot !

Normal Cruise at 260 to 280 km/h with the new engines. Old one's 140 kts.
VNE 320 km/h.

Communications : Very sad and very bad ...

It works out the wind drift for you via doppler for the armament panel - old sytemn but it works :up



Tim Bamber took this picture of me searching for them when they "got lost" on a Sierra Leonean Navy Boat off the Island off Bonthe - far out at sea and I was NOT impressed ! Note the 8 degrees nse down during normal flight. Sorry I do not have pics that shows the nose - down any better. The Smoking engines are standard .. worry when they do not smoke a bit ;)

http://www.nel.co.za/Data/photo102.jpg

My first landing on a Ship - ever .. and it was on Her Majesty's Ship .. uhmm yes with a Russian Gunship - how times have changed :E

http://www.nel.co.za/Data/photo103.jpg

I nearly wet my pants as this marshaller was obviously used to less wind resistance than a very heavy Mi-24. His breasts started to flap as we landed - sjees It was very hard to concentrate :) I was nearly wet !

http://www.nel.co.za/Data/photo104.jpg

[mi24history]

Hi there Gunship!!

Did you manage to get any information about the Manufacturer number of your Mi-24 Hind and the one that is at the internation airport?

I hope you will manage to get these for me.... and everybody who is interested in Mi-24 histories.

I have found a picture of the little plate that contains the manufacturer number. Have a look at this website:

http://www.dse.nl/~mvdburgt/index.htm

Sometimes also the number is painted on the side of the wings, on the fuselage under the wings, or in the inside of the cabinedoors. But I think you can also find this russian number in the logbooks.

I hope to hear from you again!
And by the way, great pictures!!!

Best regards,
Martin

[Steve76]

Nick,

I stand corrected. Must try some of that in the old dear one day :)

Steve

[mi24history]

Hi Gunship,

Are you still out there??

Did you find my link to my website with the photo's of the manufacturer number of the great Mi-24?
Do you think you will have a possiblility to have a look at the manufacturer number of your Hind?

I hope to hear from you again...:D


Mi24history

[Gunship]

Hate to make promises and not fulfill them .. very sorry guys - especially Mi-24 history.

I took un - expected trip back to SA and had a shouder op in the mean time.

I am back now but the weather is realy cr@p ... whenever it clears I will make work of your requests !

ohhhh - ok now I see your photo's on your web page - oh that is easy - I will do that tomorrow - to get to the top would have been a mission ... suicide mission :)

Cheers and all the best ! :ok:



G U N S H I P :cool:

[Gunship]

Lo Mi24history et al,

Well it was much easier than I thought when the rain cleared.

I think it is just right to all that I do not publish the serial numbers on a public forum so I will PM them to you as I see you are a fanatic.

What I can tell the public forum is that I think the number that was displayed on your web page do not conform to the usual numbers.

730 703 is 6 numbers (uhmm obviously)

We do not have our numbers displayed in the "radio compartment " as it is known.

I found the numbers on the inside of the troop compartment door. Ours here (and on the TOP of the logbook was displayed in 5 figures NOT six like yours.

All the numbers that my collueges ? could come up with their experience started with a 1 or 2 and yours with a 3 ? Maybe a newer version ?

Interestingly the numbers in the door and the book on the servicable one differ ... :oh:

**12* in the door and **21* in the book ! :*

I could not see the number when I took the pic (very harsh direct sunlight after lotsa rain) and when I looked at the digital images this morning I saw the different result.

I also saw the manufacturers date on the plate as being 1880 and the book being 1980 - wonder who is right. :8

Martin oh just another thing nothing was painted on the wings or under them .. just a PLATE on the inside of the passenger / troop compartment.

Pics of the rotorhead as requested coming up .... ;)

Hope I have been helpfull ...