welfare package farce

[Wilkynife]

Having been in the Middle East for 5 months with no voice contact with home, a shortage of blueys, no internet, two televisions between up to 800 people, I was galled to be issued with 21 phone cards that now denies me any LOA for service prior to the conflict. This means that along with over 260 others I have to try to use one of the 6 phones available at a time when it is convenient to ring the UK.

Those carrying out the fighting, apart from the FJ fraternity will not have any contact with home either and I ask where the recompense is for them. I realise this may seem like the bleatings of a blunty but i am not , there arent any of them here, (too close to the sharp end), however it is on the direction of PMA that this is carried out in an effort to save money no doubt.

Any other welafare farce nuggets out there?

[swinging monkey]

Wilkynife,

You are of course absolutely right in what you say, and the issue of the phone cards at this precise time, will be a knee jerk reaction from some faceless to$$er in PMA who will be able to go to his boss and say...'look boss, I've just saved us £x thousands of pounds in LOA' He will get a spec' rec', his boss will get an OBE, and treasury and the MOD will be able to say to the public 'look what we do for our boys'

Yeah, its Bollox isn't it?
As for the other welfare nuggets, God, there are too many to mention, and this forum will soon be full up with loads I'm sure.

But take heart Wilkynife, at least you're NOT a blunty, in which case I wouldn't have had any sympathy for you (sorry Blunties) but youre not, and the British public think the world of you.

God speed to all our boys and girls, hope you're all home soon.
Regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, send a bottle of Grouse to Wilkynife and his mates'

[Tigs2]

I know a Girl out there who has been in a long term relationship for seven years, lives with her partner, has two children from previous partner aged 15, 13, and the RAF wont pay her the same LOA as a married person. As far as they are concerned she is a Singley. Don't get me wrong I don't think Single folks should be treated any differently, but isn't this dodgy ground in terms of discrimination? Anybody know?

[BarryMonday]

Devils Advocate speaking!

They have to draw the line somewhere, marriage has to mean something and for the unscrupulous it would be an easy stunt to pull, "please, I've got a girl/boyfriend with several kids, please send them the money" etc. etc.

Why doesn't Girl marry the bloke?

[The Gorilla]

I suppose it is a bit like the free parcels to the Gulf farce.
Tony the liar stands up in a cheering house of commons to tell the world that from now on the Forces can have, within reason, a free parcel service.

The cynical amongst us said at the time, that it was only approved by the Treasury as an attempt to get families to feed the troops. Since HMG had failed to do it.

But no, lo the bean counters and Jobsworths have decided that it is far too difficult to achieve, well within the next 6 weeks anyway. So the project, just like the Nimrod MR4, is on a hold!!
Don't you know there's a war on and all our logistic lines are full??
Tsk tsk..

Hopefully for the bean counters most people will be back in the UK before the service begins eh??

:rolleyes:

[BEagle]

Which is probably what Trust-me-Tone was banking on!

Actually, there is a bit of a problem sending parcels to the front - regrettably there is a residual terrorist threat which must be considered.

[The Gorilla]

Beags

That's not a realistic excuse, you can send as many parcels to the Gulf as you want. IF you stump up the required Dinarii.

Indeed as I went about my dailies in the Post Office today, Op Telic parcel weighing seems to be flavour of the month!! That will be £5.50 please madam!!


:rolleyes:

[tu chan go]

Wilkynife,

"Those carrying out the fighting, apart from the FJ fraternity will not have any contact with home either"

Do you mean that the FJ fraternity is not fighting or do you mean that they have some secret method of phoning home that the rest don't have access to.

When I was in Kuwait, I had the same access as everybody else to the crappy phones whose bandwidth was so narrow that my wife could not recognise my voice and it took half an hour to pass the number of a phone on which she could ring me.

(Incidently, I took my mobile with me and when I wanted her to ring, I called home on it, let it ring twice and she knew to call. Much cheaper than trying to call her from the desert. Still cost us a fortune though)

[vascodegama]

Tigs 2 - I am not sure what you mean by your friend not getting the same LOA as a married person. If it temp duty LOA on a detachment there is no difference in that paid to married or single people. If it is at a permenant station then she should get LOA for her children I think but not her partner if he is a civvy. If he is also a serviceman at the same overseas station then they both get LOA which makes them better off than a married couple. It seems it is not illegal to treat single people less well than married people - I checked with the EOC. As for the phone card fiasco at the start of the theme why don't all those in volved put in a claim for LOA for those days when the so-called welfare package was not available. Wait till RTB and see what happens!

[Wilkynife]

Tu Chan Go

My apologies dear chap, i was under the impression from elsewhere that throughout the campaign the FJ sqns had the phones throughout, irrespective of the bandwidth and availability. However the SH boys and girls together with the Shhh! not to be mentioned and RN were without, throughout.

It wasnt meant as a dig, we are all in this together and my point was to the PMA monkeys who are trying to save a measly amount of cash. As for claiming back in the UK its a non starter if your local commander agreed to the welfare package but blocked its availability for OPSEC, it therefore stands that local commanders can get their AOC's commendation and OBE for saving cash under fire!

So even when we are at war someone other than the enemy and the americans are trying to roger us.


BOHICA!


BOHICA!

[Tigs2]

Barry Munday
Why the hell should she have to marry him?? There are 7 years worth of council tax records to prove that they live together. They have two children living under their roof. I was talking about discrimination and you are clearly still in the military of the 1970's - a military of total discrimination!!.

Vasco

Sorry mate they are not co-located, she has been sent out to that location, he is a civvie back here, with her children to look after. Still the same phone bills, school bills, clothes bills, seperation etc etc as any married couple. Please tell me the difference between her circumstance and that of a woman/couple in the same circumstance that is married by the church??

[vascodegama]

Tigs 2

I am still not quite sure about your friends circumstances. Is it a permenant posting or another OOA. As I said above if it OOA she will get exactly the same as a married person, if it is a permenant posting would she not get SFA since she has kids? If she serves at a new station on her own and leaves her children at a previous house I still think she would get the same LOA as a married person serving unaccompanied. That said you are right in principle about the discrimination.

[Ali Barber]

I seem to remember from the dim and distant past, some kind of policy statement that couples (unmarried) were to be treated the same as married couples, provied they could prove they were in a long-term relationship. Mind you, it might have just been an intent for the future to demonstrate their airships were PC and then put on the back burner/forgotten. Now that homosexuality is legal in the UK armed forces, what would be the situation for "significant others" of the same sex?

[BarryMonday]

Tigs2 Slow down old chap, you'll do yourself an injury!

I did preface what I said as "Devils Advocte speaking", and made the point that a line has to be drawn somewhere, didn't say I necessarily agreed with where it was drawn or not.
Anyway, as Vasco says, looks like she should be getting the allowances .

My point about getting married was that as the services seemed to be intransigent and since their relationship was obviously of a permanent nature why not formalise it with a piece of paper, often the only thing that MOD understands, since the outcome would be financially beneficial and it shouldn't affect them too much*. Again, Vasco thinks they will be OK anyway.

*As an aside, I know from my own experience that it might affect any maintenance payments she receives but after seven years committed that would be blown anyway, I think.

[ZH875]

Why should people be financially rewarded for violating Gods laws and living in sin. If you want to be treated equally as a married couple GET MARRIED.

[The Gorilla]

YYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNN

:O

[taglo]

Far be it from me to say anything as contentious as the fact that the trend to not marry began in the late 70's, when those claiming state benefit realised they could get more by claiming as two seperate adults than as a couple.....now we're seeing the consequences of this trend.

[Tigs2]

BarryMonday
Fair point old chap, life has been far to stressful these days, slowing down is definitly in order, Thanks.

ZH875
However just when I wanted to slow down along comes ZH875(is this an aircraft you've pranged?, or is 8+7+5 the total of your IQ?)So is its Gods law that we should all marry?? Or was it something that was instigated by the Roman Catholic Church, then adopted by the other monothestic religions. Sadly having done 18 years of detailed research as an 'ameteur' archeologist/theologist the fact is that the basis of our christain faith is a pile of total bloody hogwash. If you are trying to wind me up then you have done - well done! Religion is far far deeper than someone of your mentality could possibly concieve. Keep praying to your god and Jesus(bye the way do you REALLY know who Jesus actually was?? I bet you wouldn't believe in martians without proof, but you have blind faith in someone that i feel certain after your comments you know absolutely nothing about. This will get too deep for many of the other guys on this forum, so either reply or e-mail me if youve got the cohoonus(sp?)

The Gorrila

Piss off and go sleep in the jungle if this thread boors you, you didn't have to read it, and if it boors you and the issues don't affect you then sod of somewhere else without commenting. Ta very much!

[FireAxe]

Tigs mate, I think ZH875 was going fishing and you bit good and proper.

Spices up the thread though.
Life's unfair, then you die!!!!!!

[Sideshow Bob]

Tigs2
I've been married for 9 years, been OOA for quite a bit of the last 2 years, I am OOA now, I have not been in receiot of LOA since my last Falklands tour in '96, not since they brought in welfare packages, that quite frankly never live up to the promises. I get the same LSSA as a singlely, so what is your problem? By the way on the parcel front, could someone at Brize please stop the movers jumping up and down on them.

[The Gorilla]

Tigs me old

You should chill out and learn when muppets are trying to simply wind people up. Happens all the time on here.

Suggest you go have your blood pressure checked.

I wasn't going to comment, which was why I yyyyyyaaaaawnned at a comment that is oft aired on here, but since I am here I will.

If a couple,(any denomination) wishes to live together instead of marrying then
IT IS THEIR ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO DO SO!!

Not everybody wishes to live within an institution.

Lots of people have different ways of living as compared with 1955, the era in which most of the MOD mandarins and our airships live in. I happen to think the RAF is doing a sterling job on smoothing out the kinks and eventually there will be no differences betwixt those who are married and those who are not. Indeed evidence of this can be seen by the recent huge U turn on pensions to surviving partners.

For the record I have been married and I will never marry again. My personal choice is based on my own experiences of how the law affects you as both a married man and a singly. An undisputable fact is that you are in a far better position if you are unmarried.

I mean, there aren't even any blinking tax advantages any more!!


:=

[ZH875]

Tigs2 as FireAxe correctly suspects, Fishing line rolled out and a whale caught.

I Wholeheartedly agree with The Gorilla in that people should be allowed to live as they wish to do so.

Lets face it, our troops are fighting for peoples right to a democratic and free lifestyle.

I wish them all a safe return

[Tigs2]

ZH 875, Gorilla

Thank you for expiditing your replies, point taken I am chilled. It just pisses me off that singlies don't get the same treatment as scalies>

Peace. balance and harmony, peace, balence and harmony..... HOOOOMMM!!

[Unmissable]

Everyone in the military knows that deployments are part of the life, but for anyone to decide that a few pence or pounds can diferentiate between the hurt of a married person missing their life back home is any different to a singly missing their life back home is barking up the wrong tree. Everyone hurts whether for wife and kids, or boyfriend and lover, or Mum and Dad. What is the difference? Compensation (although money doesn't really compensate) should be the same.

[Chuffer Chadley]

Here here!

Well said, Unmissable.

Not that it will matter one jot to me after tomorrow, BUT: I find the idea that it is more worthwhile compensating marrieds than singlies outrageous- Get You Home Pay discrimination has always been a pet hate of mine. Really, can it possibly be right to suggest that married chaps/chapesses are the only people with lives worth returning to outside the Forces? Are they the only ones who miss home a bit now and then?

And I have it on pretty good authority, from a professional legal source, that discrimination on the grounds of marital status, counts as sexual discrimination, iaw the relevant act. All it needs is someone to make a legal challenge who has the time/money/inclination....

Four-penn'orth dispensed! :cool:

Ciao!
CC

[vascodegama]

Sorry Chuffer you are wrong on the discrimination bit, as I said overleaf, according to the EOC it is not illegal to treat married people more favourably than singlies. I am not saying I agree with it but did look into some aspects a few years ago. It is, however, illegal to discriminate against married people. That is why the rules on leave warrants (only given to the few people under a certain time served) were changed ie to bring married people up the no given to singlies. Not sure about the GYH rules since I have never claimed but in the other commonly claimed allowances the anomolies have been just about eliminated. Thre is still along way to go in other departments eg housing.

[swinging monkey]

Tigs2,
Steady on me old Trout - you will surely die of heart failure!!

I can't comment on your comments about religion and theology, by I can tell you that you must learn to take life just a little bit easier old boy :O
This is what you need to do................

1. Put your hat & coat on, and take a trip down to your local Tesco.
2. Purchase a bottle of Grouse, and pay the nice lady at the checkout.
3. Have a steady amble back to home.
4. Pull up comfy arm chair, switch on tele' and pour large glass of said liquid.
5. Drink said liquid (not too fast) and observe changes to one's bodily and mental state:D
6. Within 20 mins - problems solved.

So there you have it old boy, it's not worth hammering your ticker for is? Chill out and stay cool.

Regards to all
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, better send Tigs a bottle pronto Tonto!'